worldover98 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 I posted this in a sexless threat but chose to start a new one to get immediate feedback. It's great to hear such a diversity of opinions and experiences. Unfortunately for me as a male, I'm the victim of a 10 year marriage which barely sees sex twice a year with my wife. And she says there's no sex frequency normalcy or average for a couple. After two kids, her libido disappeared. Yes, we can still get a long and (she can) fake our closeness in public. The first four years were pretty consistent, 3-4 x a week, leveling off to about 5-7 x a month. After the kids, it was down to twice a year, I was patient for three years until I realized her priorities were different. I probably resent more that she was not honest to keep stalling, making excuses. It was a tactic to keep me close but not too close. Add also that she has gained more and more weight with no motivation to want to do better for herself, hence us, I am thus left to have rare discreet sexual affairs which at times I regret, and other times I do not. It's very easy for those to point figures of guilt to the party for not standing by his / her mate and endure this unnecessary sexlessness. However, man or woman must not be suckered into a moral marriage commitment if the other one is totally neglectful of the other's needs. One must be honest to oneself and sex is a honest human need, particularly in a marriage. It would be easy to walk away if no kids were involved. But they're here and I'm dedicated and responsible to them and the family unit until they become late teens. I cannot change my wife, she has to want it herself. I'm ten years older then her but yet she has taken on weight which makes her look a lot older. She's content with her overweight and says it's my problem, no hers. That's partly true but it ultimately is her issue because it can also affect her health too, not just her looks. She seems to have lost her soft side and not care about how she looks for me. And I've never asked for the moon with her because she's always had a shapely voluptuous figure which I've always adored. So what to do with a used-to be- sexy, fun, attractive, voluptuous wife who now shows a bit of hyper woman's liberalism(no man's gonna tell me what to do!), no interest in intimacy, and no intentions of wanting to get shapely(sexy) for me, or anybody for that matter!? I ultimately feel that her weight problem is the central issue which she continually denies. My frustration for her has started turning into sympathy, but I won't tell her that.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 I posted this in a sexless threat but chose to start a new one to get immediate feedback. It's great to hear such a diversity of opinions and experiences. Unfortunately for me as a male, I'm the victim of a 10 year marriage which barely sees sex twice a year with my wife. And she says there's no sex frequency normalcy or average for a couple. After two kids, her libido disappeared. Yes, we can still get a long and (she can) fake our closeness in public. The first four years were pretty consistent, 3-4 x a week, leveling off to about 5-7 x a month. After the kids, it was down to twice a year, I was patient for three years until I realized her priorities were different. I probably resent more that she was not honest to keep stalling, making excuses. It was a tactic to keep me close but not too close. Add also that she has gained more and more weight with no motivation to want to do better for herself, hence us, I am thus left to have rare discreet sexual affairs which at times I regret, and other times I do not. It's very easy for those to point figures of guilt to the party for not standing by his / her mate and endure this unnecessary sexlessness. However, man or woman must not be suckered into a moral marriage commitment if the other one is totally neglectful of the other's needs. One must be honest to oneself and sex is a honest human need, particularly in a marriage. It would be easy to walk away if no kids were involved. But they're here and I'm dedicated and responsible to them and the family unit until they become late teens. I cannot change my wife, she has to want it herself. I'm ten years older then her but yet she has taken on weight which makes her look a lot older. She's content with her overweight and says it's my problem, no hers. That's partly true but it ultimately is her issue because it can also affect her health too, not just her looks. She seems to have lost her soft side and not care about how she looks for me. And I've never asked for the moon with her because she's always had a shapely voluptuous figure which I've always adored. So what to do with a used-to be- sexy, fun, attractive, voluptuous wife who now shows a bit of hyper woman's liberalism(no man's gonna tell me what to do!), no interest in intimacy, and no intentions of wanting to get shapely(sexy) for me, or anybody for that matter!? I ultimately feel that her weight problem is the central issue which she continually denies. My frustration for her has started turning into sympathy, but I won't tell her that. I'm sorry, empathize with you and do not question your solution to the issue (outside use protection). You are absolutely right, you can't make her change. Women will tell you it is their bodies, their minds and their decisions to make. You voice your concerns, try to fix the issues/marriage and that is all you can do. Best of luck.
TakeMeasIam Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 How about "She loves you but isn't in love with you"....? That's probably it. She's stopped caring about herself, because she doesn't care enough about you to make the effort. I think if you were to tell her that you feel you need to get sex elsewhere - she would either agree with you and tell you to jump at the chance (so long as she knows nothing about it) - or tell you she gives a damn what you do. Try it. Unless you already have. If you did, what was the reaction?
Eve Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 It's very easy for those to point figures of guilt to the party for not standing by his / her mate and endure this unnecessary sexlessness. However, man or woman must not be suckered into a moral marriage commitment if the other one is totally neglectful of the other's needs. One must be honest to oneself and sex is a honest human need, particularly in a marriage. It would be easy to walk away if no kids were involved. But they're here and I'm dedicated and responsible to them and the family unit until they become late teens. I cannot change my wife, she has to want it herself. : I hope I can never relate to this. I don't think I could allow the spark of my individual sexuality to become so shaped by another person. Boredom got you both. I don't think you can justify affairs though. Really you are using the concept of marriage to house the kids. They will grow up with a sense of there being something not quite right but won't be able to put their finger on what it is. I couldn't live like that. I would let everything blow up and go to **** and then pick up the pieces and live true. Take care, Eve x
yessy21 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Im sorry about this. have u tried talking to her? i know u are suffering. i was in a relationship were he didnt want to have sex only twice a month. all he wanted to do was play video games. i understand that u love ur kids. and ur wife. but if she does not make u happy then tell her. either u change to how u used to be or its over. u can still be a father ... a great father. u dont have to be with someone that doesnt make u happy just because ur commited to ur kids. She isnt going to change if u dont make her realize she needs to. I dont think u want to be 65 and look back and say... i could have been happier. i could have had more. This is her fault not urs.
LittleTiger Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Did she, by any chance gain most of her weight during her pregnancies? It wouldn't suprise me if she was hurting and very upset by it, despite what she says. Very few women are 'content' when they feel heavy, so I'm not convinced she's being honest with you. I'd be willing to bet she is pretending not to care. She doesn't know how to do anything about it (or feels she can't) so she's become defensive. She doesn't feel sexual or attractive so she's 'cut off' her own sexual feelings and just expects you to live with it. I don't really know what to suggest because if she's not willing to help herself and she's outright rejecting all your advances then there isn't much you can do. Do you still find her attractive and, if so, does she know that? If you don't find her attractive any more then telling her you don't will just make matters worse. Has she ever talked about feeling depressed?
xxoo Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 She doesn't want sex. She knows that her weight makes her less attractive to you. In her mind, her weight may be "protection" from your sexual interest in her (even subconciously). Think about it....if she lost weight and had a sexier figure, you'd push for more sex. She doesn't want more sex, so she keeps on the extra pounds.
yessy21 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 She doesn't want sex. She knows that her weight makes her less attractive to you. In her mind, her weight may be "protection" from your sexual interest in her (even subconciously). Think about it....if she lost weight and had a sexier figure, you'd push for more sex. She doesn't want more sex, so she keeps on the extra pounds. So do u think she just expects him to be with her like that? She must feel very secure about his stay then.
carhill Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 She seems to have lost her soft side and not care about how she looks for me. And I've never asked for the moon with her because she's always had a shapely voluptuous figure which I've always adored. So what to do with a used-to be- sexy, fun, attractive, voluptuous wife who now shows a bit of hyper woman's liberalism(no man's gonna tell me what to do!), no interest in intimacy, and no intentions of wanting to get shapely(sexy) for me, or anybody for that matter!? Welcome to LS When was the last time your W had a full physical? What are your ages and those of your children?
Author worldover98 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 Thanks for your thoughtful responses, all of them. For the record, I am 49 and she is 41, while the kids are 6 and 4 1/2. "TakemeasIam" said that my wife loves me but is not in love with me, which I find very accurate. She knows too that I still love her and of course I could fall in love with her again, I'm a very forgiving type. That is only if she will be passionate and consistent about our love making. Even the last two times we had sex, last year, it was a rather dull event. Neither one of us reached a climax. She therefore must really show some enthusiasm about sex this time around to make it work. "Littletiger" asked if I still find her attractive. I certainly do. In fact, if she was sexy about her overweight, I would not even be entertaining this forum because we'd be making whoopie regularly. How's that for even more tolerance? And "XXOO" had a very interesting observation that my wife is keeping the weight on as so to avoid having sex. There was a time when she had an abortion after two or three weeks. She then became frighten to get pregnant again (before we had our kids). It did disturb her a little for she never wanted unprotected sex after that. So the weight thing could be a defense, but she says it's not. I was surprised no one touched on her "hyper-feministic" tendencies where she does not want to feel like she's being bossed around. Then again it could be just her strong intellectualism, she's well educated, and lacking an ability to be more heart felt. Finally, as "EVE" pointed out, of course I'm using marriage to house our kids, true. But I also realize it's easy to walk away from anything these days. That to me is the very easy way out. Surely, as my kids grow older, I have some buying time to try and turn this thing around. If after another eight years it doesn't turn for the better, I can then leave proudly knowing my kids are older and will understand that I tried to make it work. Thanks,
TakeMeasIam Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Never, ever EVER - stay 'for the children'. It's a completely wrong motivation, and children can adapt. I know it's a wrench, but children have survived divorces. And it's better to know two content parents, separated, than two miserable parents, together. Plus - trust me on this one - they won't thank you for your ultimate sacrifice. if anything, they might say "Jeezus pop, why the heck didntcha leave earlier? How come you stuck it fer so long?" Love them, never use them as pawns and always be nice about their mom and don't say anything that could be inflammatory and defensive. Your wife - you can't control what comes out of her mouth, but kids see the truth for themselves, eventually. And they're not dumb. But staying until the kids are old enough? Bad idea. Really, it is.
Lipsy10 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 But I also realize it's easy to walk away from anything these days. That to me is the very easy way out. Surely, as my kids grow older, I have some buying time to try and turn this thing around. If after another eight years it doesn't turn for the better, I can then leave proudly knowing my kids are older and will understand that I tried to make it work. Actually its NOT easy to walk away from your family and thats why your still there. If there were no children then you probably wudda left by now. Also what happens if one of your affairs is exposed! Your children aren't gonna thank you for cheating on their mother. No matter what age your children are they are gonna take their parents seperation hard. My friend was 25 when her parents divorced and she was devastated. I don't really know what to say to you as I am in a simular situation. Unhappy relationship but don't wanna break up my family. Also besides all the crap theres still love there which I suspect is the same for you.
threebyfate Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Fits the pattern of sexless marriages. Control/domination/passive-aggressive elements.
Eve Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Nah, OP. You are not married. Stop kidding yourself. The way I see it you are not willing to shake things up because you can have the affairs. If you truly wanted change you would man up and live true. Your wife probably knows anyway but is probably too tired or lazy to do things differently. You have both settled for a financial arrangement to house your children. This is not a marriage. End of story. Take care, Eve x
LittleTiger Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Fits the pattern of sexless marriages. Control/domination/passive-aggressive elements. No, it doesn't! It's very common for women to put on weight during pregnancy and go off sex after having kids. Maybe it didn't happen to you, or hasn't yet, but it's common nonetheless. This doesn't mean that every husband in such a situation is controlling/dominating and the wife has suddenly become passive/aggressive. I'm sorry, but that's a ludicrous conclusion to draw. This poor guy has come on LS asking for help because he's 'hurting'. His wife is no longer behaving like the woman he married so he's confused and looking for answers. Personally, I admire a man who has the guts to take action when his marriage goes wrong - even if it's just asking questions on a website from a bunch of strangers. It shows he cares. Women are capable of being controlling all by themselves, without needing a dominant male to push them in to passive/aggressive behaviour.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Holy ****! Did pretty much everyone miss the affairs! Hey Bud, until you learn to stop messing around and deal with the conflict in your marriage, you are going to be unhappy and not getting any. Perhaps talk to a counselor, read The Sex-Starved Marriage and stop acting so dirty! I am in a sexless marriage as well. Guess what? No one put a gun to your head and forced your dick into someone else. By being "discreet" etc. you are simply trying to get around the reality of the situation in a way that complicates things further. She probably knows something is up too! You aren't going to fix the sexual problems in your marriage when you are out solely for yourself to get your dick wet!
Author worldover98 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 "Threebyfate", you made some valid observations about control, dominance, and passive aggressive behavior, but it all starts to detour into psycho- analysis, which would require much more details about two individuals. In my threat, you assumed that my wife who refuses sex is the passive aggressive and that I'm the dominant one. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. Everyone in her family knows she is a "dominant type", takes charge, wants control and decision making left to her. And by the way, I'm the bread winner who never hoards the money to get even, it's always available 50/50. Thus, your theory is refuted somewhat. What it says again is that neither one of us are trying to play out a power game. She admits that she is sorry but she has no libido after the kids were born. But man can not just live by cuddling alone! Or a woman for that matter! We all need and deserve something more, especially if we committed to this institution of marriage! Maybe that's where a topic like "open-ended" marriages can come into play?
LittleTiger Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Holy ****! Did pretty much everyone miss the affairs! Oh!!! Holy **** indeed!!! I just went back and re-read the OP - I did miss that - not sure how! (Too many sleepless nights lately I think! ) New advice to the OP: Wanting sex outside a marriage is one thing but, once you go down the route of getting your needs met elsewhere on a regular basis without first discussing it openly with your wife, your marriage is well and truly on the rocks. If you want your marriage to work, you need to come clean about all your affairs and tell her exactly what's going on in your head. She may or may not forgive you, but at least you can both start living honestly again. Your wife's lack of interest in sex may have started this cycle of events but the way you're behaving is just exacerbating the problem. You've come here asking for advice, which suggests you still care - but is it your marriage that you really care about, or just the fact that you're not getting enough sex? Lies within a marriage means 'no marriage at all'. (Just seen Eve's reply now too - spot on!)
Author worldover98 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 Hi "dreamingoftigers": Firstly, the temper of your tone suggests perhaps you're frustrated in a sexless marriage too? You make it out as if I had numerous "affairs", which is not true. In fact two encounters were with the same married woman from an open ended relationship where they both consented to each others'"fooling around". In fact, my wife even hinted to me this very thing after she really apologized for not being 'sexual' anymore, saying as "long as I don't find out about it.." Deep down, she wants me be to be happy as we continue to have high levels of respect for each other. I agree it does complicate things more, especially if feelings start to get very heavy. I do not subscribe to this parochial catholic pattern of marriage where one victimizes his/her state, and simply suffers and do nothing proactive, either thru counseling or meeting with clergy, friends, parents, or having an 'affair' if that's what you call it. Do you know what a release it is to have sex? It cures the blues, reduces aggression and makes one clear headed. it's simple minded to think going sexless is normal and therefore live with it. In fact, my theory is if world leaders had better sex lives, things would get done better. Mind you, I would never ever pay for it either. It is over five months for me with no sex, which makes me feel a bit awkward and edgy at times. What about you?
dreamingoftigers Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Hi "dreamingoftigers": Firstly, the temper of your tone suggests perhaps you're frustrated in a sexless marriage too? Yes I am and no chocolate doesn't fix anything You make it out as if I had numerous "affairs", which is not true. In fact two encounters were with the same married woman from an open ended relationship where they both consented to each others'"fooling around". In fact, my wife even hinted to me this very thing after she really apologized for not being 'sexual' anymore, saying as "long as I don't find out about it.." Deep down, she wants me be to be happy as we continue to have high levels of respect for each other. Really, really not how you portrayed your first post. The fact that the OW is married doesn't really make her less of a vagina, does it? As for what your wife had to say about it, was this a legitimate agreement or something said in passing while under a bit of pressure or while trying to rebuff your advances? Because frankly if it was all cool with her, that strikes me as something that would have been bluntly said in the opening post. And really, it doesn't even sound like you are 100% on board with it yourself even though you are doing the ****ing. I am not doing another sack dive until I am 100% on board with it. Anything else is self-torture. I agree it does complicate things more, especially if feelings start to get very heavy. I do not subscribe to this parochial catholic pattern of marriage where one victimizes his/her state, and simply suffers and do nothing proactive, either thru counseling or meeting with clergy, friends, parents, or having an 'affair' if that's what you call it. I would strictly call an affair 'reactive' especially in this situation. Has the affair helped you to straighten out your life or solve some of the sexual/emotional conflict with your wife? Didn't think so. Proactive would be leaving no stone unturned to try to fix the issue in a way where everyone is at least content with the situation. Do you know the difference between a functional and dysfunctional family? A functional one is where everyone in the family can get their needs met. A dysfunctional family is where one of some of the people in the family can get their needs met. Sex is so central in a marriage that it wouldn't surprise me if other conflicts that you have are handled the same way, thereby modeling dysfunction. God forbid one of your children ever find our about an encounter. I caught my Dad and it does things to your mind. It's just a really messed up thing for a kid to know about, and I was 27! Do you know what a release it is to have sex? Yeah dude, that kid sitting on my lap in the picture is mine and not born of immaculate conception! It cures the blues, reduces aggression and makes one clear headed. And mishandling it causes emotional, physical, and psychological trauma for you and those around you. Same coin two sides. it's simple minded to think going sexless is normal and therefore live with it. Oh no no, I never said live with it. In fact if you ever comb through my threads you will see (aside from tons of anguish, resent and desperation) quite a few attempts to fix, or deal with the issue and I refuse to stay in a marriage where I have masturbated more in one day them I had sex all last year. It's bull**** but if my spouse works on his crap I'll deal with it. By the way, the Amen clinic is able to spot on brain spectral scans when a woman's limbic system is running too "hot." wouldn't you feel like a douche if it turned put she had an easily-correctable physiological issue. Maybe you should try all legitimate options before the "Quest for Ass" continues. Just a snarky thought.t tone has been know to vary drastically after 2am. In fact, my theory is if world leaders had better sex lives, things would get done better. Oh yeah, Bersculoni is the pinnacle of productivity. If anything our world leaders often spend too much time playing Chase the Tail and not enough solving important issues. Mind you, I would never ever pay for it either. It is over five months for me with no sex, which makes me feel a bit awkward and edgy at times. What about you? I wouldn't suggest that you pay for sex, you are gonna need that money for marital counseling or independent counseling to work out those conflict-avoidance issues. I managed to get my freak on a couple weekends ago. Hyper-bonding isn't what it used to be. Before that, months. And yeah it's a piss off, but I picked to stay in until either it got better or the ink on the papers is dry. Quite frankly those would be the vows you signed up for too. (I can get out of mine with the sexual immorality clause). I ain't ready for papers and there is still some things left to try. But if I want to get laid, I am not settling for some bull**** on the side.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 The affair (told you to use protection) and your spouse's feminist views and ownership of her body and what she does with it..... It is a very complicated and difficult and conceptually a debate us men can not win.... Very simply we can not force and coercing a spouse to have sex is wrong. But is it any more wrong to watch the deprived spouse suffer and know they are unhappy and they have done everything to maintain a loving household?
yessy21 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 something i just remembered came into thought. Some people may not notice but usually when u have an affair or are involved in some type of flirting or physical or even emotional contact with someone else... your spouse will notice... some stay quite... some go in denial. some yell at u and tell u they know. U dont notice but u can sure as hell see the signs. Ur body language is different. the ego boost... ect.. have u ever thought that ur wife is just not as attracted to u as before either? Maybe she is trying to control the situation by not commenting ... there are so many different inputs to this situation.
Author worldover98 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 Hi "Dreamingoftigers" Beyond your emotional diatribes , you only seem to make personal judgements and fill your replies with "unladylike" commentary. You sound extremely frustrated (and scary at times), and seem to miss the point that we all have some levels of marriage "dysfunctions" on this forum. Hence, that's why we chose to participate and post. I seek feedback and I'm not afraid to hear constructive criticism. To continually describe these matters in a " boy's locker room" talk, is not dignified and I thought one would rise above that. If you are talking to your man in this kind of tone, I can only imagine the tension it causes. Regardless, sorry your world went to pieces when you found out your Pop was having an affair. Did you talk to both parents, or just treat your pop as guilty regardless. I know women are from Venus and men from Mars. So men are always guilty in these matters, right?! Does it not seem to be a double standard when women go outside their marriage and do the same thing? Yes, sex matters in a marriage, and it can never be forced. She must want it as much as he. And he cannot force her to consent if she does not want to. I hope I have not ended up in one of these "right" sided Christian religious sites, where conformity is so paramount that it stifles any creative and honest level of dialogue.
Author worldover98 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 something i just remembered came into thought. Some people may not notice but usually when u have an affair or are involved in some type of flirting or physical or even emotional contact with someone else... your spouse will notice... some stay quite... some go in denial. some yell at u and tell u they know. U dont notice but u can sure as hell see the signs. Ur body language is different. the ego boost... ect.. have u ever thought that ur wife is just not as attracted to u as before either? Maybe she is trying to control the situation by not commenting ... there are so many different inputs to this situation. Nope, she still digs me. I'm in good form, not overweight and she still finds me attractive. We still kiss and she compliments my attire when I leave for a trip. And I will compliment her too when she dresses up to, regardless of her overweight.
Author worldover98 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 Dreamingoftigers: By the way, you and your lovely little one look happy from your avatar!
Recommended Posts