BrianGTS Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Hi Everyone, This is my first post, and I really can't believe I am in this situation. I have been with my wife for about 13 years, the last 7 of which have been as a married couple. We have 2 kids (4 and 6 years old), and I think that we have grown apart, partly by focusing on the kids, and partly because we neglected our own relationship. Anyway, long story short, about 6 months ago, I came to learn that she has had a different relationship with her boss than I was led to believe. His marriage was breaking up, and she lied to me about where he was living several times. Then I found out that they were having email contact that was more than just playful jokes. There was definitely flirting, and emails about how she missed him when he was not in the office, as well as more suggestive ones. She said it was all just jokes, and I do believe her. However it still hurt tremendously that she would have such a thing with someone else. It feels like the emotional affair that I keep hearing about. I was devastated (and still am). She has had a history of keeping things from me that any husband should know, and never did much to show me that she wasn't hiding things. For instance, she works for the guy, and never told me (after the emails came out), that she has been to his condo a couple of times to pick stuff up (papers, etc.), and that she was sending him texts and emails and then deleting them on her phone. When I asked her about whether or not she was deleting them, she told me that she was, and that she did that because she did not want me to feel uncomfortable. There were other things, many of which still do not totally add up. I don't mean that it made me think she was having an affair, but just that she still wanted to keep stuff from me. I was actually was getting over it, and starting to feel good about our relationship, and then, in a moment of weakness and insecurity, I checked her email. I found more emails, most of which turned out to be innocent, but they still hurt to read. I checked her email for about 3 weeks. I felt absolutely terrible about it, as I have never done such a thing before, and will never do it again. It is not the type of person I am (not judging anyone else who does it though). I could not move forward with our relationship and keep this as a secret, as I wanted to move forward by building a foundation based upon honesty. I sat her down one evening and told her that I checked her email, and that it was wrong, and I was very very sorry. I told her that I trust her about not having an affair, but that I still have trouble trusting that she does not keep things from me. Anyway, she told me that she can no longer trust me, and she thinks I have lied to her about a bunch of things (which I have not, but in the frame of mind she is in, she assumes the worst). She thinks I probably checked her email for the last several month and not just 3 weeks (which is untrue), may be following her around (untrue), and maybe even put a GPS on her phone (again all untrue). She also now takes her iphone and purse into our bedroom every night, as she thinks I might still check her stuff (which I will NEVER DO AGAIN). Two weeks have gone by since I told her that I checked her email. While we are living in the same house, we don't talk much, and I sleep in the bed with my 6 year old son. I just started to see a therapist to try to fix our marriage, and managed to convince her to do the same. We have gone separately once each, and tomorrow we go to see the therapist together for the first time. Unfortunately, she told me that she needs space, and wants me to move out, and I think part of the discussion at the next session will be about a 3 month trial separation. Up to now, I have tried to make myself scarce after the kids go to bed so that she has some space. We were planning on a Florida vacation (Disney cruise) in April, but now it looks like she wants to cancel the trip (she thinks going would be worse on the kids than cancelling - I think otherwise since we were going with another couple and their children, and now they will go themselves, and our kids will obviously find out that their friends still went). We don't argue at home - we are fairly cordial, but the kids have begun to ask why Dad doesn't sleep in his bedroom anymore. Anyway, last night we had another talk, and she told me the whole "I love you, but I am not in love with you" comment. Not surprising, as there has not been much passion and connection in our relationship for a while. I want us to forgive each other and try to put all this crap behind us, and start a completely NEW relationship - one where we behave differently with each other, and rekindle our love (no lies, no deception, and no head games). She seems to doubt my intentions, and thinks that we will slip back into our old relationship. I am totally grief stricken, and cannot get this situation out of my head. I feel like there is a tremendous weight on my chest 24/7. I have made some meaningful change in my life (lost 30 pounds for example), and am more confident at home (she always expressed that I would not make decisions and was like the 3rd child in the relationship). However, the one time I asked her what she wanted to do, she used that as an example of me not changing at all. It seems like when faced with a situation in which she has to interpret it, she goes to the worst case as the belief, and dismisses the positive possibility. I also feel like this is all my fault, and that she thinks she has not really done that much to contribute to the problem. I am desperate to make this work - I want to have a relationship with her that is intimate, trusting and nurturing, but I don't think she wants to. I think that she doesn’t believe this is my true intention, and so she does not want to step off that ledge and take a leap of fait with me – I want to take that leap very much, and cast off the past. She said that she does not know if we can get past this or not, but she does not have much hope. I told her about me checking her emails 2 weeks ago, so it is still pretty raw for her, and she is very angry with me (although she said she does not hate me). I told her that I want to start fresh and in a positive way. I told her that I believe very strongly in marriage and committing to each other for life, so I am not going to give up easily on our marriage - I intend on committing myself totally to making it work, and hope she will do the same. I also said that regardless of whether or not we do the 3 month trial separation (which I am pretty sure is what will happen), that we should come together and try to create a new start, and commit to trying for 1 year. If after that time, we can't make it work, then we will stop. At least by giving it our all, we will know that we did everything we could, and if we still part ways, we will know that we tried our best. She did not say no to that, but I am fearful that once we separate, we will never come back together as a couple. Any advice? I am crushed, and cry often about this (although I try not to do that in her presence). Can someone please help me, my wife, and our kids!!! Sorry about the long post, but I had to get this out...... it helps a little just typing this out.......
worldgonewrong Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I have been in similar throes of grief like this, trust me. One thing to hold onto right now: you cannot change her. You can only change yourself. It's my mantra because it's so damn true. So I think, in this instance, a separation might be the healthiest thing, particularly for YOU, as you have been jerked around enough. I know that sounds shocking right now, but a bit of space from her will help YOU get your head clear.
Dad_of_3 Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Hi Brian Im going to make one thing clear here. Im here to help you and your children. As for your wife from what yiu have told me from her past, mate she checked out a long time ago. For all her posturing about her boss an her activities with him. Dont't think or one minute it was innocent. Im sure you intiution would have told you otherwise. When you have been with someone that long when you suspect something, aomwthing is amiss. IMO if she is calling for the separation, she can leave to figure her stuff out. Right now your focud needs to be on you and your precious children. End of story. If she is harping on the 'oh i dont love you or know what i want anymore' train, then she can do it on her own dime and on her own time. I know it sucks, i know its like your world is crumbling and the pain is so extremely unbearable like no one would understand. You just hit a massive speedhump, nothing prepared you for it, thats why it hutts so damn much. But know that it does ease. For some alot, for some totally. If she has truly called for it, its time to 'man up' and get a hold of YOUR situation. You're both in counselling but if she already calling for a separation, that to me sounds like she is already one foot out door. I cant stress enough that you not leave your home and to loose time with your children. Its hard setting up all over again, especially when you've not asked for it. Is this selfish? Hell no, YOU are putting yourself and the children first. I also have to say, now is the time to take care of yourself. Not eating, not sleeping does you or your children no good. Eat when you can, sleep when you can, exercise can help. Start reading, in all my time i still like to try and read at least 1 good self-help book a year. Its a journey, you're just starting on it. It going to be gut wrenching hard, but i have no doubts you'll pull through. Im kinda posting this from my iphone so may have missed a few things. Ill try and clarify in the morning. My best wishes mate
What_Next Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 First, you don't leave! I'll repeat, YOU DON'T LEAVE! She wants a seperation or a "break", she leaves. Period. No if's and's or but's on this. DO NOT be a doormat, DO NOT mop around with a long face, DO NOT chase, beg, or plead. Research the 180 and use it. Now I honestly believe your wife is trickle truthing, and has in fact been inolved in an affair with her "boss". She is using your snooping to blame shift and this guy is likely using this as a wedge. Make no mistake about it. Now also realize that there is little to nothing you can do about what she wants to do. You can't change it or stop it. You can only control what YOU do.
PegNosePete Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Yep what What_Next says, 100% agreed. There is no such thing as a "trial separation". That's just a separation wrapped up in bullsh*t. What is it a trial of, exactly? Whether you have a co-dependent relationship??
carhill Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 OP, welcome to LS and please accept my sympathies. Since this sounds pretty serious, I'd suggest getting some legal advice appropriate to your jurisdiction before you make any decisions about next steps. Since you have relatively young children, maintaining stability for them is paramount. I also suggest reading similar threads on LS for further advice and perspective. Here is one example: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t261378/ One day at a time.
Author BrianGTS Posted March 14, 2011 Author Posted March 14, 2011 Hi Everyone, Thanks so much for the replies to date. We are seeing the therapist tomorrow, and his recommendation regarding separation will have a big impact on our joint decision. It will be about the kids, and minimizing the impact on them. The issue is whether or not me leaving will be better than us remaining in the same house. My wife needs space, and I think I do too. The reason that it MIGHT be more logical for me to leave and not her is that I have a family support network, and can stay with my parents for a couple of months to see how things go. She does not - her closest relative is 700 miles away, and she works locally, so that is not an option. I guess she could leave and stay in a furnished apartment for 3 months, but that would add a huge cost that we cannot bear. I told her from the onset that if we do separate for a time, my concern is the kids feeling that I have left them. That was also her concern as well, and so if we do separate, it would have to be under very specific circumstances (I get to visit and see the kids whenever I want without her, I come some nights to put them to bed, etc.). I am not saying that I will agree to leaving just yet, but there is some rationale. Our therapist feels that separating for 3 months might give us each time to clear our heads and see what life is like without the other person too. We also have a guest bedroom downstairs with a separate bathroom and entrance that I could potentially use. This would give her space (maybe not the same, but space nonethemess), and also allow us to possibly avoid any abandonment issues with the kids. I just don't know what is best for the kids, and want to do whatever is in their best interest. God this is so hard!!!!!
carhill Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 OP, I'll repeat, directly: See a lawyer/solicitor *before* you make any decisions regarding change of domicile or financial statuses/actions. It's critical that you do so. You can't 'un-make' decisions you make now. The reasons why you should remain in the marital home are: 1. She is the one having the emotional affair, or at least inappropriate and disrespectful attachment. 2. She is the one who wishes to separate. *Do not* be practical about this. If the circumstances were reversed, I can assure you she would not. Like I said, read some other threads to see how things have progressed for other people. Anecdotes are specific, but provide general guidelines about the potential positives and negatives of decisions. It's good information A 'same-house' separation can work for some people. As with any separation, it's paramount to have clear, communicated and accepted ground rules. Put them in writing if necessary. Lastly, if not already done, ask the therapist about his/her plan for recovering your M from this 'infidelity'. It's important that the MC has a *plan*. If s/he does, please elaborate on it here. What is to occur concurrent to a '3 month separation'? What is your and her respective work and responsibilities? What happens to her inappropriate 'friendship' with her boss? Etc, etc...
PegNosePete Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Let me give you some rationale for not leaving. If you leave and it turns into a divorce (as it USUALLY does when separation is involved), then you will not be able to move back in. Your wife will get the house and the kids and you will get nothing. You will have to pay child maintenance and alimony, possibly until the day you die. You will not be able to get your name off the mortgage, which means you won't be able to get another mortgage for your house. You will lose everything and she will have the house and a steady income for life. Councillors will suggest anything to make it work, but they do not think about the financial ramifications if it doesn't. Sorry to be blunt but that's the way it works! As carhill said you should definitely get some legal advice before moving out. You need to know where you will stand legally if things don't work out. Know the consequences of your actions before you take them, otherwise you'll be yet another person complaining that hindsight is 20/20!
2.50 a gallon Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I have a lot to cover As other have said do not move out. Also the kids stay with you From the sounds of it she is already in an emotional affair, if it has not gone physical, that is the reason she wants her space to boink her boss In away you have already lost her, as long as she is still in contact with the OM no form of couseling will help you get her to return Where does she work, is it a large company? What is the company policy on in house affairs. Call the HR department, and give them your best details. You might get hiim fired Snooping, quite simply tell her that you are trying to save your marriage. And there should be no secret messages or iPhones in a marriage, Once that happens the trust and the marriage is done, kaput, finished. Acting like a doormat will not bring her back, she is disrecting you and as long as you let this continue, she will no longer see you as a man. If she wants space it is to have a love nest for her and her boss. See an attorney. Start a journal of every thing she does and every time you inter act, and how she treats the kids. Also consider getting a Voice Operated Recorder that you can carry in your pocket to record you conversations with her, in order to cover you a$$. A favorite ploy is for the wife to call the police and tell them that the husband has abused her, in most cities once the police arrive, one of you have to leave and in some cases one of you has to go to jail. Then when you get out, you find that a restraining order has been filed against yhou and you cannot get near your house and kids. Think War
2.50 a gallon Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Another reason for not moving out is that in some districts this will be seen as you abandoning the family, and you come off as the bad guy. She gets the house and the kids, and you get the bills This is her doing, she is the one breaking up the family so it is up to her to move. So it might be hard on her, Oh Gee That's Too Bad, she put herself in that position. You are not going to save your marriage by being a nice guy and taking on the roll of a doormat. She is no longer your wife, another person has taken over her body The OM is a sexual predator, pond sum that is trying to make time with a married woman. If you can expose him to the work place and get him fired. Do you want your children raised by him? Trail separations hardly ever work. It is a code word to get you out so he is free to see her OM and possibly move him in. Do you want your kids calling the OM daddy? I repeat separation and divorce is war. You have to fight for your maggiage and your kids.
Chi townD Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 First off, DO NOT FEEL GUILTY ABOUT SNOOPING!!!! You have every right to know what's going on in your marriage. I would venture to say that the e-mails you've seen weren't "jokes". I believe that its an EA if not a PA is going on here. Come on, I have a woman boss and I've never gone to her home. The "ILYBINILWY" speech is USUALLY told to someone if the spouse is cheating on them. As soon as you confessed to snooping her e-mails she went on a tiraid of having her followed, tapping her phone, GPS....blah..blah.... She was fishing. She was trying to find out exactly what you knew or didn't know. Something isn't feeling right here, and your gut is telling you the same...always go with your gut. Follow the advice here and at least talk to a lawyer so you know where you stand. If you want to try to save this, do the 180, continue to monitor her and DO NOT MOVE OUT!! If she wants the separtation, then she should be the one to move out. A lot of times, if a spouse wants the other to move out, it's because they want to continue with their affair, and with you out of the picture, it's easier for them to do it. So, don't agree to a separation, if she wants it, then she goes....then time to protect you and your kids. If she tries to take the kids, inform her they're not leaving the martial home and get an injunction if you have to.
willowthewisp Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 When this first happens, we cannot see the wood for the trees. That is to say that you trust your wife, you don't think this person is capable of deliberately hurting you, you're being honest and you assume that they are too. I gave my ex the benfit of the doubt, I was way too honest with him, bent over backwards with regards to what he asked because I trusted that he would come to his senses, I could not beleive that he would betray me and decieve me. What happened? I was made homeless, he moved another women in really quickly and has proposed to her and he cut me out of his life like I never existed, as in, I haven't had so much as a Christmas card in two years, he's never even bothered to check I am OK financially or emotionally. The point is that I would never have thought the man I had loved for nearly 20 years was capable of such evil, but he is. It is really important that you try to put emotion aside right now and look out for yourself. Stop being honest with her, you don't need to lie but you don't have to offer up information like you would have done before all this, play your cards VERY close to your chest. When you told her you looked at her email and she started ranting about phone trackers etc, that was more than likely because she has a guilty mind and was trying to figure out what you knew. It also gave her the perfect opportunity to prevent you from discovering any further information. The ILYBNILWY speech is 99% of the time indicative of an affair and if it isn't, it is an extremely immature statement. You don't know yet for sure that she is having an affair, but I have to say, generally a spouse snopping on your emails (when there had been truthfulness problems by her in the past), wouldn't really cause someone to decide they want a seperation in the space of two weeks. Think about it, is that logical? That is the only problem with your relationship, the only thing that she is annoyed at and that justifies breaking up the family? No, I don't think so, do you? You are lucky that you found this forum before any decisions have been made, you have the chance to play this the right way and to avoid the mistakes that I made. Please listen to people on here, they have been where you are right now and some of them (What Next, for one) have reconciled their marriages. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME. That is imperative, under no circumstances do you leave your home. If she wants a seperation, she goes. Use the guest bedroom if necessary but you don't move into it, SHE DOES. The children remain with you. When she asks why the change of plan, do not tell her you have seen a lawyer, you simply say you cannot bear to be away from your children and you do not feel comfortable staying with your parents as a grown man etc etc, whatever you need to say to keep her off the scent. Sounds callous I know, but it IS necessary right now. IF she shows she is telling the truth about not having an affair and that she wants to work on the marriage in MC, then you can begin to be more open with her again, until then you need to be of the mindset "it's every man for himself".
robf1971 Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 her closest relative is 700 miles away, Tough sh*t on her, she wants out then she should leave. Why do so many guys think it's a good idea to move out? It's weak and will only serve to allow your wife to lose even more respect for you.
robf1971 Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 might give us each time to clear our heads and see what life is like without the other person too. and give her time and space to continue her affair unincumbered by you
debtman Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 BrianGTS, Wow, this all sounds so familiar. My W of 6 years started an EA with a guy she met online, 2 weeks later she told me ILYBINILWY and the M was over and it had nothing to do with OM (who is trying to get a D from his W who is fighting him, they have two kids, 10 & 12). We have a 4 & 6 yo and, after another week of her dating OM 3-4 nights/week while I stayed home with the kids, I decided I couldn't deal with it anymore. I talked to a lawyer and, in my state, leaving is not abandonment, so I moved in with my parents. I saw the kids 2-3 nights during the week and they spent almost every weekend with me at my parents. One week after I moved out her EA turned into PA and OM was sleeping over at my house. Fast forward 5 months of anger, depression, frustration, 180, NC/LC, finding myself and starting to enjoy life again. I moved back into the house last week (after one week she decided it was too much work for her to keep up with and she wanted a "newer" house). She found a little rental house and moved in there. She is still with OM, in their honeymoon phase. We were able to handle everything through mediation and have been pretty calm with each other, primarily because I bite my tongue a lot, don't tell her what I'm thinking (ever), don't let her goad me into being angry and CONSTANTLY think of the best interests of the kids. That being said. You're in a horrible spot right now, but, whatever the outcome, things WILL get better. All you can do at this point is start working on yourself. Get active, get involved in your life. Be the best dad you can be. I get less time with my kids than I did, but ALL the time I have with them is quality time, focused entirely on us. I would have done anything to try to fix out M, but she wasn't, that's her decision. There's NOTHING I can do about it. She and OM deserve each other and neither of them will even admit they're having affairs because their not living with their husband/wife anymore. Neither one of them is even legally separated. Some key things I've learned on this site... The person you married is NOT the person you're dealing with anymore. There's a difference between being friends and being friendly. Anything you do to her out of anger or frustration will only end up costing you money and, possibly, making things more difficult for visitation. Good luck and keep posting!
WorldIsYours Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Brian, I know this is hard for you but right now you need to be a man and get rid of this woman. She's a cheater and doesn't care whether she hurts herself or the folks around her. Kick her out. She's the one who wants to cheat intentionally and destroy the family you and her worked hard for? Tough luck on her!!!
Author BrianGTS Posted March 15, 2011 Author Posted March 15, 2011 Thanks Everyone, The thing is, I really don't think she had a full blown affair. I do think that she had an EA of sorts, but she seems to think it was all just innocent jokes. She did at times show me a couple of jokes that were passed back and forth, but she did not show me the ones that crossed way over the line - just the stupid dirty jokes that anyone would have with a co-worker (sometimes). When I was checking her email for those 3 weeks, I also saw an old email between them in which he said that he should delete these emails, and my wife replied with "you should!!" which tells me she has known for some time that she was not doing the right thing. It is not the EA that hurt the most - it is the sense of being deceived, betrayed, lied to, and made to feel like a fool. It feels like she chose someone else over me, and that is not the woman I know and married. I can't and would not do anything with the guy (except maybe beat the crap out of him hahaha, which I would never do), he owns the company that she works in, so there is no one to tell on him to. Besides, I have foregiven both of them - if not for her, then certainly for myself, as I need to foregive before I can reasonably be expected to move on (with or without her). Anyway, we are barely speaking right now, but don't argue or anything like that. She feels deceived and lied to, but I guess we both feel this way. We had talked a few times over the past that neither of us was real happy in the relationship, and that we had to make some changes. I tried and did make some, but I am not sure what effort she made. While she made the choice to carry on with this guy, the groundwork was probably already laid out in that we did not nurture our relationship enough in the first place. I think that we have both done things to get us where we are now, and I am being positive about the possibility of fixing things and creating a new relationship with her. Not sure if she is on board (her emotions and feelings of being lied to and violated are more recent than mine, so she is still quite bitter/angry). Over the last little while, I have come to the realization that many have here: that it is possible to fix things if both parties are determined to do that. However, I can only control myself, and I can't make her want to do that, so if she refuses, then I tried. I will be fine, and I will probably find someone else in time, but I chose her for life, and she is the one I want to be with, so I will make a 100% effort to make it work. If it doesn't, then I will be ok, but I want to make sure that the kids will be ok - they are my first priority always. Incidently, I have not decided about the best course of action on the separation. I was thinking of her, and thought me leaving was best, but I have to think of our kids first, and my gut tells me that me leaving is not the right thing. I can live downstairs and have no contact with her (with agreed to terms so we can equally spend time with the kids), and she can get the space she wants. She is not a bad person. She is a good person who made some mistakes, just like me - she is a wonderful mother, and while we have had our ups and downs over the years, we were both "in love" with each other once, and we still do "love" each other. I guess the difference between the 2 is that there is no passion for each other now, which is to be expected when you consider everything. But I do beleive that we can re-gain that in a completely new relationship - if we BOTH committ to it, and step off that proverbial cliff and take the leap of faith to make it happen. That is a little scarey, but I am prepared to take that leap - I only hope that she is/will be too! In response to some of you, there are no issues regarding any legal or financial implications by leaving the house though - while I have not spoken with a lawyer, I know generally that everything is split 50/50 no matter what the circumstances are. Also, while we do have these issues, I know that we will both do the right thing and would not try to screw each other over in any way if it comes to a divorce. Everyone's support and comments here have given me strength, as I realize that I am not alone, and others have gone through much worse. I feel strong (today at least - I will take it day by day), and life will go on regardless - I will find a way to be happy with or without her. What I am going to propose to her is that we can have a separation to give her time to clear her head, but I think we owe it to ourselves and our kids to REALLY REALLY try to make it work for 1 year. If after that, it is still not working, then we go our separate ways with no regrets (a little sadness maybe) but no wondering what could have been. This will involve continued couples counselling, but I am ready to foregive and forget the past and start fresh - hopefully she will get to a point where she can feel the same so we can try to start with a clean slate. It can happen - I have to beleive that until all hope is lost, and right now, there is still hope. Maybe hitting rock bottom is what is needed to make us both REALLY REALLY try to change things - I guess we will see in time. Please keep your comments coming - they help me a great deal. And thank you so much! Brian
willowthewisp Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Thanks Everyone, The thing is, I really don't think she had a full blown affair. I do think that she had an EA of sorts, but she seems to think it was all just innocent jokes. She did at times show me a couple of jokes that were passed back and forth, but she did not show me the ones that crossed way over the line - just the stupid dirty jokes that anyone would have with a co-worker (sometimes). When I was checking her email for those 3 weeks, I also saw an old email between them in which he said that he should delete these emails, and my wife replied with "you should!!" which tells me she has known for some time that she was not doing the right thing. It is not the EA that hurt the most - it is the sense of being deceived, betrayed, lied to, and made to feel like a fool. It feels like she chose someone else over me, and that is not the woman I know and married. I can't and would not do anything with the guy (except maybe beat the crap out of him hahaha, which I would never do), he owns the company that she works in, so there is no one to tell on him to. Besides, I have foregiven both of them - if not for her, then certainly for myself, as I need to foregive before I can reasonably be expected to move on (with or without her). Anyway, we are barely speaking right now, but don't argue or anything like that. She feels deceived and lied to, but I guess we both feel this way. We had talked a few times over the past that neither of us was real happy in the relationship, and that we had to make some changes. I tried and did make some, but I am not sure what effort she made. While she made the choice to carry on with this guy, the groundwork was probably already laid out in that we did not nurture our relationship enough in the first place. I think that we have both done things to get us where we are now, and I am being positive about the possibility of fixing things and creating a new relationship with her. Not sure if she is on board (her emotions and feelings of being lied to and violated are more recent than mine, so she is still quite bitter/angry). Over the last little while, I have come to the realization that many have here: that it is possible to fix things if both parties are determined to do that. However, I can only control myself, and I can't make her want to do that, so if she refuses, then I tried. I will be fine, and I will probably find someone else in time, but I chose her for life, and she is the one I want to be with, so I will make a 100% effort to make it work. If it doesn't, then I will be ok, but I want to make sure that the kids will be ok - they are my first priority always. Incidently, I have not decided about the best course of action on the separation. I was thinking of her, and thought me leaving was best, but I have to think of our kids first, and my gut tells me that me leaving is not the right thing. I can live downstairs and have no contact with her (with agreed to terms so we can equally spend time with the kids), and she can get the space she wants. She is not a bad person. She is a good person who made some mistakes, just like me - she is a wonderful mother, and while we have had our ups and downs over the years, we were both "in love" with each other once, and we still do "love" each other. I guess the difference between the 2 is that there is no passion for each other now, which is to be expected when you consider everything. But I do beleive that we can re-gain that in a completely new relationship - if we BOTH committ to it, and step off that proverbial cliff and take the leap of faith to make it happen. That is a little scarey, but I am prepared to take that leap - I only hope that she is/will be too! In response to some of you, there are no issues regarding any legal or financial implications by leaving the house though - while I have not spoken with a lawyer, I know generally that everything is split 50/50 no matter what the circumstances are. Also, while we do have these issues, I know that we will both do the right thing and would not try to screw each other over in any way if it comes to a divorce. Everyone's support and comments here have given me strength, as I realize that I am not alone, and others have gone through much worse. I feel strong (today at least - I will take it day by day), and life will go on regardless - I will find a way to be happy with or without her. What I am going to propose to her is that we can have a separation to give her time to clear her head, but I think we owe it to ourselves and our kids to REALLY REALLY try to make it work for 1 year. If after that, it is still not working, then we go our separate ways with no regrets (a little sadness maybe) but no wondering what could have been. This will involve continued couples counselling, but I am ready to foregive and forget the past and start fresh - hopefully she will get to a point where she can feel the same so we can try to start with a clean slate. It can happen - I have to beleive that until all hope is lost, and right now, there is still hope. Maybe hitting rock bottom is what is needed to make us both REALLY REALLY try to change things - I guess we will see in time. Please keep your comments coming - they help me a great deal. And thank you so much! Brian Brian, re the bolded part, we all thought this at the time, I would STRONGLY urge you to see a lawyer, but of course the choice is yours.
WorldIsYours Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Thanks Everyone, The thing is, I really don't think she had a full blown affair. I do think that she had an EA of sorts, but she seems to think it was all just innocent jokes. She did at times show me a couple of jokes that were passed back and forth, but she did not show me the ones that crossed way over the line - just the stupid dirty jokes that anyone would have with a co-worker (sometimes). When I was checking her email for those 3 weeks, I also saw an old email between them in which he said that he should delete these emails, and my wife replied with "you should!!" which tells me she has known for some time that she was not doing the right thing. It is not the EA that hurt the most - it is the sense of being deceived, betrayed, lied to, and made to feel like a fool. It feels like she chose someone else over me, and that is not the woman I know and married. I can't and would not do anything with the guy (except maybe beat the crap out of him hahaha, which I would never do), he owns the company that she works in, so there is no one to tell on him to. Besides, I have foregiven both of them - if not for her, then certainly for myself, as I need to foregive before I can reasonably be expected to move on (with or without her). Anyway, we are barely speaking right now, but don't argue or anything like that. She feels deceived and lied to, but I guess we both feel this way. We had talked a few times over the past that neither of us was real happy in the relationship, and that we had to make some changes. I tried and did make some, but I am not sure what effort she made. While she made the choice to carry on with this guy, the groundwork was probably already laid out in that we did not nurture our relationship enough in the first place. I think that we have both done things to get us where we are now, and I am being positive about the possibility of fixing things and creating a new relationship with her. Not sure if she is on board (her emotions and feelings of being lied to and violated are more recent than mine, so she is still quite bitter/angry). Over the last little while, I have come to the realization that many have here: that it is possible to fix things if both parties are determined to do that. However, I can only control myself, and I can't make her want to do that, so if she refuses, then I tried. I will be fine, and I will probably find someone else in time, but I chose her for life, and she is the one I want to be with, so I will make a 100% effort to make it work. If it doesn't, then I will be ok, but I want to make sure that the kids will be ok - they are my first priority always. Incidently, I have not decided about the best course of action on the separation. I was thinking of her, and thought me leaving was best, but I have to think of our kids first, and my gut tells me that me leaving is not the right thing. I can live downstairs and have no contact with her (with agreed to terms so we can equally spend time with the kids), and she can get the space she wants. She is not a bad person. She is a good person who made some mistakes, just like me - she is a wonderful mother, and while we have had our ups and downs over the years, we were both "in love" with each other once, and we still do "love" each other. I guess the difference between the 2 is that there is no passion for each other now, which is to be expected when you consider everything. But I do beleive that we can re-gain that in a completely new relationship - if we BOTH committ to it, and step off that proverbial cliff and take the leap of faith to make it happen. That is a little scarey, but I am prepared to take that leap - I only hope that she is/will be too! In response to some of you, there are no issues regarding any legal or financial implications by leaving the house though - while I have not spoken with a lawyer, I know generally that everything is split 50/50 no matter what the circumstances are. Also, while we do have these issues, I know that we will both do the right thing and would not try to screw each other over in any way if it comes to a divorce. Everyone's support and comments here have given me strength, as I realize that I am not alone, and others have gone through much worse. I feel strong (today at least - I will take it day by day), and life will go on regardless - I will find a way to be happy with or without her. What I am going to propose to her is that we can have a separation to give her time to clear her head, but I think we owe it to ourselves and our kids to REALLY REALLY try to make it work for 1 year. If after that, it is still not working, then we go our separate ways with no regrets (a little sadness maybe) but no wondering what could have been. This will involve continued couples counselling, but I am ready to foregive and forget the past and start fresh - hopefully she will get to a point where she can feel the same so we can try to start with a clean slate. It can happen - I have to beleive that until all hope is lost, and right now, there is still hope. Maybe hitting rock bottom is what is needed to make us both REALLY REALLY try to change things - I guess we will see in time. Please keep your comments coming - they help me a great deal. And thank you so much! Brian I agree with Willow. Some cheaters have screwed over their betrayed spouses in divorce court. Get the protection you need and heal.
PegNosePete Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) while I have not spoken with a lawyer, I know generally that everything is split 50/50 no matter what the circumstances are. This is absolutely, unequivocally, definitely, WRONG. You NEED to see a lawyer if you have this kind of preconception. You are extremely mistaken if you believe you will each automatically get 50%. Also, while we do have these issues, I know that we will both do the right thing and would not try to screw each other over in any way if it comes to a divorce. Only one thing to say to this. Famous last words Everyone thinks this about their relationship, and many are now paying the price for it. When divorce comes up, people can be influenced by others (new partners, parents, friends) or they can simply become change all by themselves. People do things for any logical or illogical reason. 6 months ago you would never have believed she'd have an affair with her boss, am I right? You did not know she was capable of that. Now, you do not know what she is capable of in 6 months time when the divorce hits the fan. Edited March 15, 2011 by PegNosePete
willowthewisp Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 This is absolutely, unequivocally, definitely, WRONG. You NEED to see a lawyer if you have this kind of preconception. You are extremely mistaken if you believe you will each automatically get 50%. Only one thing to say to this. Famous last words Everyone thinks this about their relationship, and many are now paying the price for it. When divorce comes up, people can be influenced by others (new partners, parents, friends) or they can simply become change all by themselves. People do things for any logical or illogical reason. 6 months ago you would never have believed she'd have an affair with her boss, am I right? You did not know she was capable of that. Now, you do not know what she is capable of in 6 months time when the divorce hits the fan. Pete is right. It's sometimes difficult for me on these boards because I am currently in law school but due to professional and ethical regulations I cannot give any legal information to anyone other than a client under a retainer. We all think our partner would never screw us over, it's amazing what happens when someone decides to walk away, my ex had hidden money that belonged to both of us, by lawyer did her nut! I never thought he would be capable of such behaviour, but, he was.
Author BrianGTS Posted March 15, 2011 Author Posted March 15, 2011 Thanks for the replies everyone. I am in Canada, and based upon what I knew from others that went throught this in the past, it is 50/50 regardless of the circumstances or actions. As I said, I have not consulted a lawyer on this, and will not unless she has done so, or if the marriage is un-savable. I don't beleive that is where we are yet, so I am going to focus on the fixing part. I still really appreciate the advice though, and welcome hearing about others that have walked in my shoes in the past. Both good and bad outcomes are helpful to hear about as I really need the support!
carhill Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 So, get her to verbally agree to a separation, reduce it to writing, and move downstairs. This will set the one year clock into motion, presuming you or she would divorce on grounds of separation for one year or more. Be proactive. You have children, so matters of custody and support will need to be taken care of. Both spouses have the right to live in the marital home, no matter whose name is on the title or who owns it, if owned separately. Do you or your wife own a business? A financial adviser and lawyer will explain to you the risks and potentials of divorce and any equalization payments on that business. This is just the tip of the iceberg. My exW and I divorced amicably, but I spent a ton of time, research and legal bills figuring out how to arrange things so she'd be 'smart' to not fight me. Knowledge is power. The only way to get ahead of a cheating/abandoning spouse is to be proactive and aggressively protect your own interests and those relevant to your children. That's not pleasant. In fact, what you do will make her very angry. This is the single hardest dynamic for most men to understand. She just hit your concrete wall of boundaries and smashed her face. Of course she's going to be hurt and angry. *Accept it*. Get started today. IMO, there's no downside at all to being informed, proactive and assertive. NONE. If the M survives, it does. If not, not.
Chi townD Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Thanks for the replies everyone. I am in Canada, and based upon what I knew from others that went throught this in the past, it is 50/50 regardless of the circumstances or actions. As I said, I have not consulted a lawyer on this, and will not unless she has done so, or if the marriage is un-savable. I don't beleive that is where we are yet, so I am going to focus on the fixing part. I still really appreciate the advice though, and welcome hearing about others that have walked in my shoes in the past. Both good and bad outcomes are helpful to hear about as I really need the support! Dude, you are talking to people that walked in your shoes and they're telling you to see a lawyer because they got blindsided and screwed! Look, no one is telling you to RETAIN a lawyer, just talk to one. Right now your wife isn't the woman you married; she's a stranger. And with this knowledge, you don't know what a stranger will do to screw you over. And please tell me you didn't move out........
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