Jynxx Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Hmm that's funny. Mystery, the connoisseur and teacher of the ways of PUA, taugh his own students to buy a the girl a drink. I watched his show. Want to bet on that? If you are not buying her a drink and having conversation you are not a PUA. You are probably the guy waiting to pick up the drunk girl as the bar closes. NO U
Imajerk17 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 If you are not buying her a drink and having conversation you are not a PUA. You are probably the guy waiting to pick up the drunk girl as the bar closes. What, a guy needs to buy you a drink to talk to you? Your post is not true. I speak from good experience. I've left with the woman's number--or the woman herself--without buying a drink for her. (Well actually that's not true, I don't really drink but I sometimes buy myself a Bud Light so I don't look like a weirdo without a drink in my hand. So I guess that means I did buy a drink for her, right??)
starryeyed12 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Lol sure, let's bet. I guess I touched a nerve with some of your egos! Don't worry, my kind is probably few and far between.
starryeyed12 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Ok, well that is your experience and thats what works for you...cool. I'm just sayin in my experience there are many, MANY men who use the PUA tactics and women who see through it and enjoy it for what it is without giving it up.
fishtaco Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 If you are not buying her a drink and having conversation you are not a PUA. You are probably the guy waiting to pick up the drunk girl as the bar closes. I never buy women drinks. That is a sucker move.
starryeyed12 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 I have gone to the bar on many occasions with about 2 dollars in my pocket because guys around here love to buy girls drinks and shots. We have a great time too, with many PUAs! He's probably trying to get me drunk to further seal the deal, but I am fiesty. Like I said you don't need to worry because if you are a good PUA I'm sure you'll get the girl who will have sex with you. There are other kinds though.
starryeyed12 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 I should also note that there are pleanty of times when a guy will just come up to talk with me and he doesn't order drinks. But lots of times the drink is just the natural progression of the conversation. We blah blah blah with getting to know each other a bit, and then he will usually say hey, do you need another drink? Or, let me buy you another drink! Let's do some shots! He is probably thinking A. There will be more conversation (and I do give him that) and B. his odds of sleeping with me are increasing with each drink. Unfortunately, this is not the case.
starryeyed12 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 And these men are chumps for it. Idiots. Lol I tend to agree with you. My ex bf used to give me so much sh*t when I told him of my ways before meeting him! But I can't promise I will change my ways now that I am single again. I think it's harmless and fun!
fishtaco Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Lol I tend to agree with you. My ex bf used to give me so much sh*t when I told him of my ways before meeting him! But I can't promise I will change my ways now that I am single again. I think it's harmless and fun! I have no respect for any man who's game is so weak they have to purchase their time with women. Idiots don't deserve to keep their money. So please, by all means have fun with those men. If I were your friend I'd egg you on to see how much you can get away with. And if they get mad I'd step in to make sure you're safe. That'll make a pretty entertaining night.
Taramere Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Don't worry, my kind is probably few and far between. Bar parasites few and far between? Are you kidding? Only time anyone should be buying a drink is HER buying ME one Whatever you say, princess.
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 I'm going to get into Pick Up...why? Because I'm a 28 year old virgin who has never kissed a girl, or had a girlfriend. You have a cool avatar pic, though.
starryeyed12 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Bar parasites few and far between? Are you kidding? If you want to call me a bar parasite thats fine. But I do NOT ask for any man to buy me a drink and I don't approach a man to just get him to buy me a drink. Over the course of a night of going out it just happens! The drink is their way of buying more time with conversation. It definitely backfires sometimes and after the convo I'm done. Other times my girls who I'm with and I might hang out with the guy and his buddies all night. There are some men who can buy her drink and it's done in a way that they are trying to "show off their feathers". Done by the right man it comes off as arrogant, but very slick. Stupid? Probably over the course of time. So, I will agree that most guys should stick to the general rule of don't buy her a drink. My point that was lost in all this, goes back to the OP. He asked why girls can't see through it, assuming that the PUA got the girl and possibly a ONS. There's no guarantee that he did. Some women don't go to the bar with the intention of hooking up or finding the man of their dreams. They go out to have fun and meet guys to hang out with for a night. My friends are the same way. We don't trust a stranger we just met from the bar enough to go have sex with him or even give him our number at the end of the night. We'll hang out, talk, maybe have drinks, theres touching, flirting, dancing sometimes, probably many signals that a man would interpret as DTF. But we aren't and we don't.
Jynxx Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Lol sure, let's bet. I guess I touched a nerve with some of your egos! Don't worry, my kind is probably few and far between. Don't flatter yourself, the only thing annoying about your posts was your extreme ignorance and the lack of awareness about it. Would you call a 5year old who makes a drawing an artist? Probably not. The term artist implies a certain skill level, one that is higher than what most 5year olds can have. So why would you call a loser who tries to pick up a girl at a bar without a clue about what he is doing a pickup artist? A pickup artist is (in my eyes) someone who studied pua material (duh), is somewhat skilled at it and uses it in his social interactions. When the topic was about pickup artists, you thought it was about people who try to pick up girls at a bar (and as we know most of those fail at it), and mocked their techniques. If you don't see how this is funny in an embarrassing way (for you), imagine someone going to an art forum, gets involved in a discussion about modern artists, uses his 5yearold son as an example for a modern artist and uses his drawings to critique all modern artists techniques. As for the bet, any amount you want, name the (international) payment processor of your choice and I lay you 2 to 1
Taramere Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 If you want to call me a bar parasite thats fine. But I do NOT ask for any man to buy me a drink and I don't approach a man to just get him to buy me a drink. Over the course of a night of going out it just happens! The drink is their way of buying more time with conversation. It definitely backfires sometimes and after the convo I'm done. Other times my girls who I'm with and I might hang out with the guy and his buddies all night. There are some men who can buy her drink and it's done in a way that they are trying to "show off their feathers". Done by the right man it comes off as arrogant, but very slick. Stupid? Probably over the course of time. So, I will agree that most guys should stick to the general rule of don't buy her a drink. I would go with what the men are saying in that pick up merchants aren't likely to dip their hand in their pocket. It's the nature of hustlers...they're on the take, rather than out to give anything. When it comes to men who will buy you a drink in the bar...I don't think it necessarily means anything (as far as them thinking they can buy you or your company goes), but that might be because where I live it's traditional for everybody in the group to take turns buying a round. If you're talking to somebody and you want a drink, it seems rude to order one for yourself and not them....and I think that's why a lot of men would buy a drink for a woman they were speaking to. If a man had bought me a drink, I would try to ensure I'd bought one back for him before leaving his company - unless he's insistent that I shouldn't (and often men are insistent on paying primarily because I will tend to drink soft drinks rather than alcoholic ones). It's odd to me that what I would class as just being a decent and polite person would be viewed in terms of "being a sucker". I think that's quite a sad outlook for people to have. When you (and others) talk in terms of somebody who buys you a drink being a sucker, it just makes it sound as though you lack the ability to acknowledge other people's generosity...and prefer to perceive things in terms of you getting what you can out of them. If you're posting all this to show that you, as a woman, can be as much of a user with men as these PUAs are with women, then I suppose you're succeeding in a sense.....but turning yourself into a cheapskate user for the sake of a few shots in a bar with a stranger doesn't seem like much of a triumph. I've nothing personal against you (I don't know you), but men get called out on this board when they boast about using the opposite sex, so I don't see why women should get off scot free with it.
starryeyed12 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) It's odd to me that what I would class as just being a decent and polite person would be viewed in terms of "being a sucker". I think that's quite a sad outlook for people to have. When you (and others) talk in terms of somebody who buys you a drink being a sucker, it just makes it sound as though you lack the ability to acknowledge other people's generosity...and prefer to perceive things in terms of you getting what you can out of them. If you're posting all this to show that you, as a woman, can be as much of a user with men as these PUAs are with women, then I suppose you're succeeding in a sense.....but turning yourself into a cheapskate user for the sake of a few shots in a bar with a stranger doesn't seem like much of a triumph. I've nothing personal against you (I don't know you), but men get called out on this board when they boast about using the opposite sex, so I don't see why women should get off scot free with it. There have been times when I already have a drink in my hand which I bought, yet they will still offer drinks! When you are going out with a group of your friends buying rounds is normal. This not the senario I am talking about. I'm talking about the scenario where the guy buys you the drink with the intention of "buying" more time to get to know you on his way of trying to get you to the seduction stage. I already stated that I agree as a general rule most men should not buy a drink. It's a common mistake. However, my point is lost again bc of the damn drinks! lol I shouldn't have mentioned it because it's over shadowing my point. I am trying to say that women are not powerless to the courting or PU of a man. The OP asked why the girl can't see through his game, I am saying that some women can see through and they play along into the courting process because it is fun and entertaining. We have no intention of a ONS. It may appear to someone looking on that this guy is going to get laid, but with some women thats not the case. I have made a firm decision before I go out that I am not really looking for my next BF and I'm not looking to get laid. I am looking to have a good time and boys are definitely part of that, so I enjoy their time and they enjoy mine. Often times the guy who seems like the "duche" to the "honest approach man" is confident, fun to talk to, and yes he may even buy drinks (Judge this man all you want)! There are some times when me or a friend will give out our numbers if there was genuine attraction and interest on both ends. That is rare night and it usually never goes anywhere in the long run. Edited March 15, 2011 by starryeyed12
fishtaco Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 It's odd to me that what I would class as just being a decent and polite person would be viewed in terms of "being a sucker". I think that's quite a sad outlook for people to have. Buying a drink to get vagina, I'm not sure if I'd call that being generous.
Taramere Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 THowever, my point is lost again bc of the damn drinks! lol I shouldn't have mentioned it because it's over shadowing my point. I am trying to say that women are not powerless to the courting or PU of a man. The OP asked why the girl can't see through his game, I am saying that some women can see through and they play along into the courting process because it is fun and entertaining. Sometimes. There was one time some friends and I were approached by a group of men who'd met on a "social skills" seminar (we managed to wangle probably the closest we'd get to the truth about it being a Picking up women class out of them). That was just a bizarre conversation. Initially it was so odd that our interest was piqued as to why this group of men who really didn't gel as a group were out together. It was fascinating in a way, but they were poor conversationalists, and it started getting annoying to be "practised on" in that way....particularly when they were being vaguely offensive. I don't know if the majority of men who try out these techniques believe women won't see what they're up to. I would think that the more sensible ones would be realistic enough to know it's unlikely, given women tend to develop a strong interest in psychology and human interaction from a very early age.
Taramere Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Buying a drink to get vagina, I'm not sure if I'd call that being generous. Like I say...a lot of people will just include everybody in the group they're talking to in a round because they're not the type to leave people out. Not every man out there thinks that stumping up a couple of quid for a woman's diet coke is going to result in him getting sex.
fishtaco Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Like I say...a lot of people will just include everybody in the group they're talking to in a round because they're not the type to leave people out. Not every man out there thinks that stumping up a couple of quid for a woman's diet coke is going to result in him getting sex. Exactly, and they shouldn't be grouped into "generous" either. So, is the glass half empty or half full, when you don't have enough information to determine someone's motives?
Author Untouchable_Fire Posted March 15, 2011 Author Posted March 15, 2011 I've rethought this. I'm glad UF has posted this. The more women understand what they're up against, the easier it is to spot and not be suckered into "The Game". Some guy starts the push/pull, proof, negging b/s, don't just walk away, run for your lives!! This is really what frustrated me! I struggle to understand how so many women can just be blind and naive to this stuff... even the guys who do it naturally. It really just pushes all guys to act like jackasses since it rewards those who behave badly. I think you have a good point in that guys are better at detecting guy bullcrap... but not as good at detecting female games. In my experience women don't have the same goals when they play emotional games with you. Usually I see women trying to get compliments, attention, or money. When a man approaches me I know after about 2 mins of speaking with him whether I want to give him my number. It's that fast- it parallels speed dating in a way. It's his looks yes, but also the manner of speaking, body language, smell, sound, eyes, everything happening all at once and I can get a good read very quickly. Maybe I am missing out on some great catches by this, but as a general rule I don't find bars to be a suitable place to meet a partner. You know nothing of his background or his interests, save the fact that he likes to drink and whatever other possible bull**** he throws your way. I also have never had a one night stand and don't plan to do so because they would not work for me. I would feel extremely guilty if that happened- blame my background I suppose. I would rather get myself off than a ONS- thats always a good time! In most situations I would tell you to buy your own stuff, however in a bar situation... those guys are just trying to get you drunk enough to sleep with them. It's not a mutually agreed upon date... there is no long term intent. Use those guys for free drinks all you like. At the end of the day they are just idiots. I'm also glad to see you can see through the PUA guys and don't do the ONS thing! I wish more women were like that. The one suggestion I have for you is to step back and evaluate guys for a bit longer before you make a decision. It usually takes me 15-30min at the least to decide if I want to ask for a woman's number. Some of the best dates I've ever been on were with women I would have rejected upon superficial mannerisms. One in particular I thought was the biggest valley girl/ditz I'd ever met. After 2 dates I found out she was a lawyer and extremely smart! First impressions are just that. If you are making dating decisions based on that... I guarantee you will pass up some great people for crappy ones.
Taramere Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Exactly, and they shouldn't be grouped into "generous" either. So, is the glass half empty or half full, when you don't have enough information to determine someone's motives? Well...buying somebody a drink might not be bursting with largesse, but it certainly beats the oily little scrote who sidles off furtively to the bar to get his own drink but always has his nose right in the middle of the group when somebody else is buying the round in.
starryeyed12 Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) In most situations I would tell you to buy your own stuff, however in a bar situation... those guys are just trying to get you drunk enough to sleep with them. It's not a mutually agreed upon date... there is no long term intent. Use those guys for free drinks all you like. At the end of the day they are just idiots. I'm also glad to see you can see through the PUA guys and don't do the ONS thing! I wish more women were like that. The one suggestion I have for you is to step back and evaluate guys for a bit longer before you make a decision. It usually takes me 15-30min at the least to decide if I want to ask for a woman's number. Some of the best dates I've ever been on were with women I would have rejected upon superficial mannerisms. One in particular I thought was the biggest valley girl/ditz I'd ever met. After 2 dates I found out she was a lawyer and extremely smart! First impressions are just that. If you are making dating decisions based on that... I guarantee you will pass up some great people for crappy ones. Thank you Untouchable, for reading what I had to say and not immediately jumping down my throat about it. I'm sorry if my tone came off as arrogant, it's really not my true nature, but when dealing with the single life/bar scene the feathers come out from both sides and I can be quite fiesty. Anyway, I think you are able to understand where I am coming from. It's the flip side of the scenario. What is the girl thinking? What does the girl want? The courting practices and PUA's out there are easy for some girls to identify. We know when you are interested and are trying to get us interested too. We can see that part and we love the attention and fun it can sometimes bring, however what is not clearly identified is the motivation behind it. My calloused, aroggant, "bar parasite" (shocking coming from you, taramere, way to hold down the girl power fort... I'm KIDDING) attitude toward meeting men in a bar comes from years of watching women get burned by some (don't want to use definitives and lump the men with good intentions in there) men, while also having experiences of my own. Like I said I don't do ONS, but in my earlier bar years, have been burned by getting really into a guy at a bar only to later find out he has a GF, or worse, he's married! Then there is the vast number of girls I know who have done the one night stand thing and are hurt when it pans out to nothing. Or the guys you thought you were having a good time with, but suddenly loses interest when they realize they can't get in your pants and they go try on your friend. There's countless other stories of women, who are unable to identify the interested bar man's motives, getting burned in the end. Now, this is not to say all men act like this, this is not to say these men are true PUA by some definition, this is not to say that some women don't love having ONS. This is simply to say that some women have learned this calloused attitude from being taught by men themselves. It's from experiences like this that I have my rule of the bar not being the place for me to meet the man of my dreams, which is my ultimate goal. My friends and I feel this way. We have met BFs and now husbands in places like church, through high school connections, set up from other friends, college classes, work etc. So, for women like me, I am only looking for a night of fun with you (no sex!), with the rare exception when I give my number to someone I have genuine interest in. If that is using you, well then sorry, but I don't have much sympathy. This is also why I am dreading being single now because, while I enjoy the bar scene/game now that I am less naive, it gets old and lonely after awhile. It's not easy to find the right guy. He’s out there though. Edited March 16, 2011 by starryeyed12
fishtaco Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Well...buying somebody a drink might not be bursting with largesse, but it certainly beats the oily little scrote who sidles off furtively to the bar to get his own drink but always has his nose right in the middle of the group when somebody else is buying the round in. I must have missed something here. This thread started out about PUA, then went into guys at pubs hitting on women. Seems it's now about buying people rounds... I'm confused.
starryeyed12 Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) My question is this... How come these women can't see through it? and before someone chimes in that women prefer jerks... they don't. I just can't see why my friends more honest and respectful approach gets no play while captain PUA seems to do well? The question from post 1....got off track due to my mentioning of men buying drinks! But it wasn't really my point! Edited March 16, 2011 by starryeyed12
Taramere Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 I must have missed something here. This thread started out about PUA, then went into guys at pubs hitting on women. Seems it's now about buying people rounds... I'm confused. PUA gurus are hustlers. Whether they're scamming other people into buying their drinks for them, scamming not very bright women into thinking that they love them or scamming men into paying for seminars/coaching sessions - it all comes down to the same type of person. Anyway - my last post on the subject. Ultimately it's pointless for me to keep criticising it, because this is a philosophy where a select few men make money out of a much larger pool of men. As long as there's money to be made from a philosophy (and evidently there's money to be made from PUA theory) then it will carry on having its die-hard defenders.
Recommended Posts