Pick Up Artists

[Taramere]

I'm sitting here a bit aghast that situations turn into physical fights with any confrontation. What kind of clubs do you guys frequent and what do you say to escalate the situation to physicality?

 

I haven't gone to clubs in a long time, but anywhere where there's a crowd of people, noisy music and a lot of drink being consumed is a bit of a recipe for fights breaking out. Where I live at least. The fact that a bar is situated in the West end won't prevent it from happening...but usually when fights break out the bouncers are onto it like a rocket.

 

You'll see them shoving through the crowd and know that there's trouble - then some wild eyed drunk will get hauled out. It can be over a woman, a spilled pint - anything really. It's not an every night occurrence, but neither is it a rare one. Once in a blue moon you'll hear of a tragedy occurring, but usually it's just a bit of a scrap that is quickly stopped by the door staff.

 

The threat of guns being pulled, as UF mentions, is a whole different ball game. I think where there's that sort of threat....well, it would be tempting to just give up on having a social life. Or move.

[Emilia]

I saw a guy pull a gun in the club. I don't know the situation that brought it on. Just a lot of yelling... then people trying to get out of the way.

 

that happens in London too but it's easy to avoid clubs like that by not going to certain areas. I don't know what kind of music you are into and what your gf likes but it will greatly determine the sort of place you end up in

[Trimmer]

The point is that she really just blew off my friend who is genuinely quality and had a very good approach in favor of a guy that was on several levels demeaning.

 

Last November I got in this guys face because he was being belligerent with someone I know. Maybe I was too confrontational... but he grabbed a bunch of friends and waited for us outside the bar. They rolled me from behind. There were too many so I just covered up while my friend and I got kicked. I hit one guy in the face really hard... but that's it.

 

Before that my cousin and I got jumped by 6 black guys in an alley. One of the guys tried to grab my wallet. When I went to the police about it.. they threatened to arrest me because I'd been drinking. Still pissed about that.

 

...Where I live is nothing compared to Jersey! You must be sheltered.

 

I saw a guy pull a gun in the club. I don't know the situation that brought it on. Just a lot of yelling... then people trying to get out of the way.

So now let me just summarize: you've been beat up for "getting in a guy's face" on behalf of someone you were with, you've been jumped and robbed in an alley, you've seen guns pulled, and yet in spite of this environment you're in, you are surprised that your friend, with his earnest, honest, genuine, quality-guy approach isn't having success bagging the local chicks?

 

Is it possible you're missing a bit of a big-picture perspective here?

[Fondue]

As far as PUA goes, I think it's not meant to be misogynistic or anything, it's simply meant to be a set of tools to help the average guy get the girl he wants. It's not always going to work, but the tactics employed are better than nothing. People who get threatened by this, or women who react very negatively toward it after reading about it (like some of the ladies in this thread), are thinking very ignorant. I don't know why we shouldn't be promoting this to help other guys be better in the dating world.

 

I spent a good two weeks reading some books, watching some videos, and lurking PUA forums to learn a thing or two. You pick up things that WORK FOR YOU and COMPLIMENT YOUR OWN PERSONALITY. If you use a line or a routine that doesn't conform to who you are, you're just gonna look like a douche. It h as to be natural. I wasn't that bad with engaging women to begin with (I don't have approach anxiety or anything like that), but some of these things definitely made it easier overall. I'm glad I took the time to read up and at least study a little bit. I think all men should.

 

As far as guys going out and picking up women to have sex with them... I don't think people should get antsy about it either. Men love sex. So do women. Sometimes we just gotta have it. Just be safe about it. Wear protection, use birth control, etc. Sex is sex. Nothing more. If you don't like to engage in ONS, then don't. Personally, I do not like ONS because the times I've had it, I've freaked out at the possibilities of STDs and was paranoid every single time afterward until I was assured I was fine. Some people don't have that instinct and just can have sex at will. Let them!

 

On the subject of men being stupid and aggressive at bars/clubs, I really don't understand it either. It's ridiculous. People getting angry over little things still baffles me. I'm kind of lucky in that I'm a few inches over 6foot tall and have a natural frame to me that I don't get any of that aggressive energy toward me because of my stature, but once I did. I still laugh about it to this day. I could have sworn this guy was trying to start something.

 

Meet a guy in the bathroom...

 

Him: You were checking out my girl.

Me: Oh yah? Was I? Who was she?

Him: *describes woman*

Me: Yah, I remember. Yah, dude. She's hot. Congrats on that .

Him: Uhhh... Thanks. You know I'm in the military and know how to fight, right?"

Me: Oh yah? Thanks for serving our country, bro !

 

He looked so baffled afterward, it was really funny. We had a few more lines of that back and forth, but that was the jist of it. He tried to make a big deal out of nothing and I wasn't going to give him any of it.

[sally4sara]

We had a funny situation happen a couple weeks ago at one of our favorite places. Some guy came up from behind me, planted an exuberant kiss on my cheek and start talking about what has been going on since he saw me last - I'd never met him before in my life! I felt the entire table shift into immediate awkwardness and that always causes me to go into a fit of nervous giggles. Yay me.

He stopped talking and looked at the facial reactions everyone was emoting and said "no no its cool; I've know her for 15 years!"

This only made me laugh harder and he became completely confused. I said "If we've known each other for 15 years then why is my husband looking at you like that?"

He smelled like a pound of really stinky of weed. My husband said " I think you've confused her with someone else but hey maybe if you shared some of what's in your pocket, we'd all think we've known you for 15 years too!"

Silly potheads! But the awkwardness was broken, we all started laughing and the guy effed off. No fight necessary.

Roll in a deep mob and try humor rather than your fists.

 

I've dated guys that would have immediately gone into fight mode over that. That is just as obnoxious as a complete stranger planting a kiss on my cheek.

[Taramere]

I spent a good two weeks reading some books, watching some videos, and lurking PUA forums to learn a thing or two.

 

Two weeks and you're telling people here what it's all about? Do you know how much this site has been trolled by one of the PUA forums and how much discussion there has been here about the "community"?

 

If you don't find perceive it or follow it with a misogynistic mindset, then that's all credit to you...but it doesn't mean there aren't a fair number of men out there who approach the thing in a very different light. And ultimately, women are the ones they'll be approaching with that mentality.

 

There are those who see it as their mission to reduce a woman's sense of self worth to the value they ascribe to her, in the hope that it'll result in her feeling she should be grateful for any attention she gets (responding, of course, by making herself available for sex). Men in their 40s who are brainwashed into believing that they should be having sex with hot 22 year olds. George effing Sodini....I know that's an extreme, but he happened and a more blinding example of narcissistic, self-pitying misogyny it would be hard to imagine.

 

We know when we're being confronted by misogynistic attitudes...and there's no shortage of those amongst the PUA community. Please don't patronise the women here by telling us we don't know anything about this BS.

[fishtaco]

There are those who see it as their mission to reduce a woman's sense of self worth to the value they ascribe to her, in the hope that it'll result in her feeling she should be grateful for any attention she gets (responding, of course, by making herself available for sex).

 

Really? It's that easy to destroy the self worth of women? Some loser guy following directions he read from some book?

 

I believe this is more of a real world scenario. Guy reads PUA book. Doesn't know the what the heck he's doing. Pulls a PUA move on some woman. She laughs him off.

 

I don't know about you. But it's pretty damn difficult for a complete stranger to destroy my self worth. A person that I respect, and have positive history together, turns on me, yes, then damage is done. But a complete stranger? Why do I care? I just think that person is a loser psycho.

 

And if I'm affected by random strangers, that means I have a problem. Maybe I need to work on my self esteem or something, instead of beating up the rest of the world to treat me nice. Because for starters, that's impossible. The world is not a nice place.

[NoMagicBullet]

Going back to the original post and why women don't see it:

 

1) They aren't aware of these games to begin with.

2) They're aware, but don't think it would happen to them.

3) They're aware, and think they'd never fall for it.

 

Maybe you'd think if a woman knew what was going on that she'd be immune, but the whole idea is to keep her "off balance" and not thinking clearing. At the very least, the flirting and compliments can easily go to a woman's head.

 

Sorry about your friend, OP. Unfortunately, getting a girl away from a guy is a big part of the game for the guys who are serious players. Who knows -- maybe he wouldn't have even bothered with her if your friend hadn't been talking to her in the first place.

 

I think the best thing you & your friend can do is find some other places to go that aren't magnets for players and reactionaries with weapons.

[Jynxx]

 

If you don't find perceive it or follow it with a misogynistic mindset, then that's all credit to you...but it doesn't mean there aren't a fair number of men out there who approach the thing in a very different light. And ultimately, women are the ones they'll be approaching with that mentality.

Stop the presses! BRAND NEW PHILOSOPHIC CONCEPT: Knowledge can be used for both ethical and unethical purposes!

[Taramere]

Really? It's that easy to destroy the self worth of women? Some loser guy following directions he read from some book?

 

No, I'm saying that's the idea....not necessarily the reality. Doesn't mean it's not misogynistic for a bunch of guys to egg eachother on in that kind of thinking.

 

I believe this is more of a real world scenario. Guy reads PUA book. Doesn't know the what the heck he's doing. Pulls a PUA move on some woman. She laughs him off.

 

I don't know about you. But it's pretty damn difficult for a complete stranger to destroy my self worth. A person that I respect, and have positive history together, turns on me, yes, then damage is done. But a complete stranger? Why do I care? I just think that person is a loser psycho.

 

And if I'm affected by random strangers, that means I have a problem. Maybe I need to work on my self esteem or something, instead of beating up the rest of the world to treat me nice. Because for starters, that's impossible. The world is not a nice place.

 

My post to Fondue was taking issue with his assertion that the PUA community is not a misgynistic thing. What he means, perhaps, is that he personally doesn't approach it in a misogynistic mindset...but I think it would be very misguided for him to deny that plenty of men do.

 

As far as how it affects people goes....well frankly, I think most women don't really want to be hit on by total strangers when they're out and about. I don't demand that the rest of the world "treat me nice"...but I do expect that total strangers will not approach me armed with an arsenal of f*ckwittery - not because I have said or done anything to annoy them, but because I am female and they subscribe to some theory that says "this is how you should approach females. This is what they want."

[donnamaybe]

f*ckwittery

Leave it to Taramere!

[Taramere]

Stop the presses! BRAND NEW PHILOSOPHIC CONCEPT: Knowledge can be used for both ethical and unethical purposes!

 

Go on then, humour me. Tell me what the noble ethic of PUA is. Do you also regard The Rules as an ethical concept for women...or would you, as (presumably) a man prefer that a woman didn't employ such strategies on you?

[Jynxx]

Go on then, humour me. Tell me what the noble ethic of PUA is. Do you also regard The Rules as an ethical concept for women...or would you, as (presumably) a man prefer that a woman didn't employ such strategies on you?

Look at it like this.

You have a group of kids.

1 is good at maths, intuitively gets things, can solve problems most adults cannot solve. They have a talent for that, an intuitive understanding that makes their environment crazy when they try to explain things.

Most are average, they get taught some concepts, learn to apply them, and can solve problems in everyday life.

A couple are really bad, for them mathematical concepts don't come easy. They get taken apart, given different education with exercises specially designed for kids who aren't as fast learners. They spend more time and effort in trying to master the concepts that come very easy for some and aren't that hard for most, and the time and effort compensates for their lack of talent.

 

Guess what? Pickup is just like that!

 

Some guys get born charming and with people skills. They can get any girl they want, don't consciously think about what and how they do it and frankly don't need to, because whatever they are doing works almost every time.

Most don't, but they learn while growing up, they fail, improve, get a couple of girlfriends in high school etc. In other words, have what society would call a normal life.

Then there's some others. They aren't as fast learners or just born with a lack of talent. Unfortunately, there's nobody looking out for these guys. No government funded program that helps them how to talk to girls or act attractive towards them. You're supposed to just get it, and if you don't, you're ****ed in every but the literal way.

 

Now wouldn't life be more fair if the last group somehow had a chance to somehow not to die a virgin that never had a relationship? I would say yes, do you agree with me?

 

Now a couple years ago, the internet was invented, and people out of the 3th group came in contact with eachother, shared their problems and the little pieces they figured out. Some people became obsessed, spent years of their lives putting all these pieces together until they created a system that worked (or at least for them). They realised the potential, and with the expansion of the internet and online marketing multiple people made different systems and tried to make money off theirs. This is the PUA industry.

 

Unlike what you seem to be thinking, pickup is not about learning semi-clever lines and repeating them to every female you meet. It teaches you how to get a playful vibe going, how to start a conversation, how to tell a story without being boring, how to get along with a girl you're hitting on 's friends, reading a girls body language to figure out if she's willing to kiss you, etc. Basically the skills that the first group of guys was born with.

 

Also worth a note is that every good book I've read (I'd say there's between 5 and 10, and they're not the ones with the marketing pages that look like a spam mail) will tell you exact routines and lines are basically what training wheels are for a bike and you should get rid of them and substitute them as you go on and your social skills improve.

 

As for "The Rules", I haven't read the book, but from what I can tell by the summaries and reviews it seems to be a deliberately controversial (a marketing trick; controversial books sell) book by someone who has a vague understanding of how human relationships work. I can imagine some tricks will be effective and would work on me, and it's pretty ****ing scary.

 

The difference on the ethics side is day and night. Pickup teaches you to fake it (social skills) until you make it. The rules seem to be about manipulating someone else to do things for you or train them to change their behavior. Comparing them is an insult.

[Taramere]

The difference on the ethics side is day and night. Pickup teaches you to fake it (social skills) until you make it. The rules seem to be about manipulating someone else to do things for you or train them to change their behavior. Comparing them is an insult.

 

 

I think in any philosophy people find attractive or personally useful, there's a tendency to cherry pick. It may well be that you and others focus on aspects of PUA theory that you find positive....but consider what Neil Strauss talked about in The Game. Some of the messed up characters involved - Mystery being a classic example of a narcissist who's constantly halfway to meltdown. He seems to be a very prominent figure in PUA, and I'm not sure how anybody could deny that he's all about manipulating other people into doing what he wants them to do.

 

I fully agree that something like the Rules is manipulative. What I don't understand is why men would argue that PUA is not manipulative. The most objective test I can think of is to google for a list of PUA jargon to see what kind of techniques are advocated. Here is one:

 

http://www.pualingo.com/pua-terminology-list/

 

"Active Disinterest."

 

Active Disinterest can be a way for the PUA to get past a woman’s bitch shield by implicitly disqualifying himself through his disinterest, or he can show active disinterest for his target, while showing interest in other girls to create a jealousy plotline, and get the girl to chase him. Once the girl starts pursuing him, he can use intermittent rewards and push/pull techniques to amplify the attraction.

"Bait, Hook, Reel, Release"

 

A Bait can be a question to challenger her, a compliance test, a hoop, or the artist’s own DHV with a takeaway. A Hook is when she genuinely answers a question, complies, or responds to the artist’s DHV with an IOI. If she is not hooked, neg and roll off.

A Reel is a reward. The artist can give her kino escalation, an IOI in return for compliance, or a SOI after she IOIs.

A Release is that break away that happens before the warm feeling of the reward turns to awkwardness. the artist can release by physically pushing her away (gently) and saying, “alright get off me, that’s all you get for now”. The PUA can also give a false time constraint after a reward, making her chase him. He can also tease and neg her a little after giving her an SOI to put challenge and tension back into the interaction.

In light of techniques like that forming part of PUA lingo, I'm not seeing why you find it insulting for me to compare PUA with The Rules. Don't both involve "training" another person to change their behaviour? It may well be that the other person is quite happy to be trained in that way. Who knows? However, what you're saying seems to suggest that the Rules turn men into the victims of female manipulation....whereas PUA are honest brokers whose only aim is to make interactions between the sexes more fun, rather than to employ any kind of power games. I don't think the techniques advocated in PUA necessarily back up what you're saying. Some of them are no doubt about creating a fun vibe, but there also seems to be a fair bit of manipulation in there.

 

Why would it be so important to deny those elements of manipulation in this particular theory - while being more than ready to recognise manipulation in something like The Rules, which was designed for women?

Edited March 14, 2011 by Taramere

[fishtaco]

My post to Fondue was taking issue with his assertion that the PUA community is not a misgynistic thing. What he means, perhaps, is that he personally doesn't approach it in a misogynistic mindset...but I think it would be very misguided for him to deny that plenty of men do.

 

As far as how it affects people goes....well frankly, I think most women don't really want to be hit on by total strangers when they're out and about. I don't demand that the rest of the world "treat me nice"...but I do expect that total strangers will not approach me armed with an arsenal of f*ckwittery - not because I have said or done anything to annoy them, but because I am female and they subscribe to some theory that says "this is how you should approach females. This is what they want."

 

Fair enough. But misogynistic view only makes the guy look lame. But it won't make women suddenly become brain washed and put out.

 

Most women don't want complete strangers that they don't find attractive hit on them. Not all women are closed off and on guard 24/7. My last ex girlfriend hit on me. She was a total stranger. Other ex girlfriends I've had, some I hit on them while I was a total stranger as well. I don't believe for one single second, that hitting on complete strangers, for either gender, is an unacceptable thing to do. I believe it becomes unacceptable when you venture into the annoying zone. But if I walk away and never bother her again as soon as I was turned down, I don't see why that would be a bad thing. For me, I would feel complimented, as long as it was done with class. But maybe women are different. I don't know.

 

PUA is manipulative just like make up and dresses that hide your bad parts and accentuate your good parts is false advertising. Bottom line, both are for increasing your attraction level. You don't have to do it. Or you can over do it. Or you can become dependent on it. Or you can be intelligent about it. You can use it to reach LTR, you can use it to get sex, you can probably apply some of it to help your chances at job interviews. It is simply a methodology to make yourself more presentable, and more likable.

 

You can apply your make up expertly while you curse men's superficial-ness. Diet and work out while you curse men's affinity to hot bodies that made you torture yourself. Spend your hard earned money on products that help restore youthful appearances while you curse men's nature to find younger women more attractive. People have bad attitudes all the time. But it is independent of the methodology. You can cut out the bad attitude, and the methodology, as long as it is a sound one, will work just as well.

 

As far as I'm concerned, it's called putting your best foot forward. Different people try different things to "put their best foot forward", even in non dating situations. Some of it works, some of it doesn't. Manipulative, false advertising, whatever, if it works, it works.

[threebyfate]

I've rethought this. I'm glad UF has posted this. The more women understand what they're up against, the easier it is to spot and not be suckered into "The Game".

 

Some guy starts the push/pull, proof, negging b/s, don't just walk away, run for your lives!!

[ConflictedGuy27]

damn Taramere... this subject seems to have really bunched em up for ya.

 

you're really over thinking the simplistic nature that we men have; so I'll make it short & sweet:

 

if X works, it works.

 

it's really that simple. masogony, tearing a woman's ego down, insulting them or whatever you seem to be rationalizing as the objective, IS NOT the objective -- getting more women than not, is.

 

if Mr. Successful has the numbers to back up that his approach (regardless of what it is) works, then guess what?!? YES! we want to learn how too.

 

this concept is not new. it's why many of us pursued higher education or started our own business -- cause Mr. RichGuy claimed that's what allowed him to build his lifestyle, which other men desire.

 

we see success, we then want to understand it (regardless of what the process looks like) and we want to apply what we learn to get what we want.

 

call em what you want, players, pick up artists, womanizers, whatever... the fact remains that these guys have a ton in common with regard to the ways they choose to conduct themselves around women.

 

I will tell you this much (and take my word for it, cause I am a recovering nice guy), my success with women improved several fold when I stopped acting like the proverbial nice-guy pussy, and started behaving like a self confident, borderline jerk, smartass who could care less what any woman wants.

 

it seemed counterproductive as hell when I first connected the dots and noticed all my buddies that were cleaning up, frankly didn't give a damn. I'm sorry for the ladies who think it's masagonistic or what have you, but to be frank, your gender loves it when we act that way, therefore, we do.

 

want the opposite in a man? the kind and caring type who's in touch with his feminine side? then be my guest; they're probably working out at the Curves gym nearest you.

 

chicks want a man with power, a man that will give them a challenge, a man that won't take their crap and will pound them senseless in bed. sorry, Taramere, but I'm convinced this is the case.

 

I've seen it and I am one of the very fortunate that have adjusted their game accordingly, before it was too late.

[fishtaco]

I agree with ConflictedGuy27. My experience is similar. I'm also a recovering nice guy, although I think I recovered a few years too late. But over all, better late than never.

 

And I also agree with threebyfate. Please, spread the word. A lot of the douchy things I do are counter intuitive (although my nice guy past is something I can never get away from, so my douchyness will never reach of the level of PUA guys). Why can't I just be nice and straight forward? Why do I have to not care and be Mr. Lots-Of-Options? I've learned faking doesn't work with women. So I have to be Mr. Lots-Of-Options for real. And that takes a lot of work.

 

So if threebyfate and others, can reverse this whole BS game, I'll be the first to say "YES! finally".

 

So please, do it. But either way, like ConflictedGuy27, I have no interest in making women feel inferior. My interest is doing what works. So if the culture is reversed, then I'll change my approach as well. Whatever it is, if it works, it works.

[Taramere]

damn Taramere... this subject seems to have really bunched em up for ya.

 

It has! I'm going to bed after this though.

 

I won't deny an abiding interest in psychology...and even though this is more of a pop psychology thing, it still interests me. It's also something I've found quite disturbing since the whole George Sodini business. Even before that, I wondered whether this philosophy of PUA might be used as a substitute form of counselling by the unstable.

 

you're really over thinking the simplistic nature that we men have; so I'll make it short & sweet:

 

Are you involved in this whole PUA community, with all its associated jargon and red pill taking? If so, it's a little difficult to marry up the "gee I'm just a simple guy who doesn't overthink things" with that "movement" which has seen fit to produce its own exhaustive list of jargon in which endless wordy and complicated explanations of simple, straightforward and obvious concepts are provided. ( I realise it's hypocritical of me to laugh at the PUA community for making simple concepts so wordy).

 

I'm honestly not sure what to make of the whole thing. Is it a technique for picking up women, or is it some new masculinist religion designed to open men's eyes and take the path of righteousness? What I've read indicates that some of the men embroiled in it aren't sure whether they want to star in Hitch or Fight Club.

 

want the opposite in a man? the kind and caring type who's in touch with his feminine side? then be my guest; they're probably working out at the Curves gym nearest you

We don't have Curves gym (whatever that is) here....but the kind and caring guy does sound like a more attractive proposition than the awful Mr Grunt at my gym who never seems to wash his t-shirt, lacks the basic consideration to wipe up the equipment after him and likes to blow his snot out onto the ground in the shower by the swimming pool.

 

 

chicks want a man with power, a man that will give them a challenge, a man that won't take their crap and will pound them senseless in bed. sorry, Taramere, but I'm convinced this is the case.

There are many different ways of having sex...and if all a man has to contribute is "pounding you senseless" then that's not going to be much good once the inevitable bout of cystitis sets in. Sorry to marr the whole visual with the inconvenient reality of female biology.

 

If you want to be the man you describe, and the woman you're pounding senseless is a consenting party, then that's fine....but why would you need to convince yourself that this is what all women want, in order to become that man?

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

I'm going to get into Pick Up...why? Because I'm a 28 year old virgin who has never kissed a girl, or had a girlfriend.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. If being a nice and straightforward guy hasn't gotten me anything, then I need to become like the guys I hate.

[starryeyed12]

A lot of interesting points have been brought up, but I want to flip the script for one second.

 

I'm not sure what percentage of women will agree or relate to me, but I have to count for some percentage of women.

 

First let me say that I frequent the bars at least once nearly every weekend. I am mid 20s and it's been a favorite past time since college. I go to drink, socialize, and sometimes to straight cut-loose (I love dancing).

 

When I arrive to a bar there is immediate eye contact and I can tell which men are interested in me almost instantly- attraction happens quickly. I usually go to the bar with one to two other girls, so we are prime targets.

 

When a man approaches me I know after about 2 mins of speaking with him whether I want to give him my number. It's that fast- it parallels speed dating in a way. It's his looks yes, but also the manner of speaking, body language, smell, sound, eyes, everything happening all at once and I can get a good read very quickly. Maybe I am missing out on some great catches by this, but as a general rule I don't find bars to be a suitable place to meet a partner. You know nothing of his background or his interests, save the fact that he likes to drink and whatever other possible bull**** he throws your way. I also have never had a one night stand and don't plan to do so because they would not work for me. I would feel extremely guilty if that happened- blame my background I suppose. I would rather get myself off than a ONS- thats always a good time!

 

For me, I usually really like the pick-up artist at the bar. He friendly, he's confident, he's fun to talk with, he compliments me, AND he even buys my drinks. If he's a creepy PU guy then I will usually give him the time it takes to drink our drinks and maybe 5 mins afterward before I move on. The PU artist is not hard for me to see. Maybe because I'm mid twenties, maybe because I have seen the show several years ago, and maybe just the fact that it takes more than that for me.

 

But I have no problem having a good time with a PU artist, letting him buy me drinks, and also saying farewell no number included. I figure talking to me is not a guarantee into my pants- neither is buying me drinks, so thats his own fault. Most times I just want to have a good time with a guy at a bar and nothing more. I would love to have to nice guy, thats who I search for, but the bar is probably not our destined place to meet. He usually gets overshadowed by the PUA and would not be as exciting in a bar setting until he is comfortable with me enough to relax and open up. He is not as appealing at the time because he often times comes off as arrogant. I wonder how many nice guys I have missed out on because they wouldn't come talk to me? <<sigh>>

 

So PUAs beware: There are women who see through your games and will just use you for good time, sans play! I may catch some heat for "wasting a PUAs time" but, frankly, I don't give a damn!

[Imajerk17]

Any guy who buys a girl drinks is not really a PUA! Sorry starryeyed...

Edited March 15, 2011 by Imajerk17

[Fondue]

Any guy who buys a girl drinks is not really a PUA! Sorry starryeyed...

This 100%.

 

Only time anyone should be buying a drink is HER buying ME one.

[starryeyed12]

Hmm that's funny. Mystery, the connoisseur and teacher of the ways of PUA, taugh his own students to buy a the girl a drink. I watched his show.

[starryeyed12]

If you are not buying her a drink and having conversation you are not a PUA. You are probably the guy waiting to pick up the drunk girl as the bar closes.