johan Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I went to bed last night and I had trouble sleeping, I was trying to figure out what it is I'm really feeling. Honestly, I think it's anger. I don't want to feel anger though- I never think straight when I am angry. What makes you angry, D? I mean he's been nothing but nice, and I'm sure would never want to make you angry. So it's a little ironic that that's exactly the emotion you're feeling. What's it about?
threebyfate Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Right now D, your posts are very difficult to respond to. They're full of confusion, distrust, vulnerability and frustration. There's a wall between the two of you. But who's wall is it? His, yours or both? Is he just a surface guy or is he more and unable to express himself in emotive language, language that you need? I'm a woman who's been through pregnancy, has known you for years through LS and even I'm having difficulties giving you what you need. I could validate you. That would be so easy to do. But I don't think that's what you really need. Keep posting your thoughts and feelings. It can be cathartic, especially since you've kept them inside of you for so long.
Star Gazer Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Right now D, your posts are very difficult to respond to. They're full of confusion, distrust, vulnerability and frustration. I'm having the same difficulty, D. I don't have the words because I don't understand what's really going on in your head and heart. Keep posting. We're all here. xoxo
Author D-Lish Posted March 14, 2011 Author Posted March 14, 2011 What makes you angry, D? I mean he's been nothing but nice, and I'm sure would never want to make you angry. So it's a little ironic that that's exactly the emotion you're feeling. What's it about? That I had no one to talk to, that I wanted to have that baby. I wanted to have that baby. Oh geez, I'm just bawling my eyes out right now- in front of my effing computer? Honestly, I feel so effed up right now.
threebyfate Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 ((((((D)))))) Oh baby, we hear you and we're here for you.
pandagirl Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I haven't responded to this thread yet, because I've been at a loss of words, since I feel I don't have the experience to provide solid advice. But I DO understand where you are coming from, D. I know we both are extremely wary of opening our hearts to men, because we are afraid we're going to get hurt. Being vulnerable is the scariest thing. For you to have opened yourself up to him was HUGE! And it made me so happy to hear that you had. But, now it's like your worst fear has come true -- like he's somehow abandoned you in your biggest time of need EVER. You feel let down, disappointed, angry, hurt, confused, etc. I understand how effed up this must feel to you. You finally open your heart again, only to have this horrible thing happen. A lot of people say he is DOING all the right things, and I believe he is a genuinely good guy who means well. However, after having dated a guy who was absolutely incapable of talking about anything of substance, I don't think just "being there" is always going to be good enough. BUT, I hope this isn't the end of the road for you two though. Don't give up -- yet. Let things settle a little, let yourself heal, and the relationship grow from it. If then, you still find his issues of communication are insufficient for you, then perhaps he's not the right guy for you.
Author D-Lish Posted March 14, 2011 Author Posted March 14, 2011 Right now D, your posts are very difficult to respond to. They're full of confusion, distrust, vulnerability and frustration. There's a wall between the two of you. But who's wall is it? His, yours or both? Is he just a surface guy or is he more and unable to express himself in emotive language, language that you need? I'm a woman who's been through pregnancy, has known you for years through LS and even I'm having difficulties giving you what you need. I could validate you. That would be so easy to do. But I don't think that's what you really need. Keep posting your thoughts and feelings. It can be cathartic, especially since you've kept them inside of you for so long. I know, I really do- I feel so raw. I've kept everything so close- but I feel really out of sorts now that I've opened up. I had a miscarriage in the past, I've had this experience before. Maybe my body just isn't meant to have babies. I have so much crap in my head, and I don't know what to do with it. I have to go to work in the morning and be the boss- that's sort of what I am focusing now.
Eternal Sunshine Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 You wanted that baby. You wanted the dream, the happy ending of having a child with the man you love. Nothing strange or wrong about that. You are now grieving the loss of that dream. It's even harder when you get that close. It's harder still when the man you love can't seem to grasp that.
dispatch3d Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I have talked to him about it. As I said before, when I told him I wanted us to talk about the pregnancy more, his response was to dote on me more. I also broke down and told him more about how I've been feeling last night, and he listened. I know he's fine with me talking as much as I want, but it's hard not getting too much verbal feedback. This isn't listening. This is the opposite of that. I was referring to asking him why he feels/chooses to handle it by not talking about it. That wouldn't really involve very much talking on your end (if you did it in that manner). Your post kinda indicates the opposite. /beat dead horse
johan Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I'm sorry, D. This is why women are stronger than men in a lot of ways. Sit tight and let the emotions run their course. Maybe you could take a couple of days to go home where you can get the best form of empathy?
whichwayisup Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 This isn't listening. This is the opposite of that. I was referring to asking him why he feels/chooses to handle it by not talking about it. That wouldn't really involve very much talking on your end (if you did it in that manner). Your post kinda indicates the opposite. /beat dead horse He isn't talking, that's part of the problem here.
threebyfate Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I know, I really do- I feel so raw. I've kept everything so close- but I feel really out of sorts now that I've opened up. I had a miscarriage in the past, I've had this experience before. Maybe my body just isn't meant to have babies. I have so much crap in my head, and I don't know what to do with it. I have to go to work in the morning and be the boss- that's sort of what I am focusing now.A very close friend of mine has two children. With the first one, she had one miscarriage. The second time around, she had 2 miscarriages, 1 near full term still birth and finally, her second child years later. Another close friend had a miscarriage when they were trying for their first. They also now have two. Did you also know that approximately 25% of pregnancies result in miscarriages within the first trimester, where many of these pregnancies aren't even detected by the women? I guess what I'm trying to say is that miscarriages aren't unusual. This doesn't make them any less traumatic and tragic but don't feel like there's something wrong with your body. It happens to a lot of women. You know I've stayed in shape all my life, eating healthy and exercising. And I had placenta previa in my third term. Had I not laid in bed like a bump on a log for three months, I too would have miscarried. Our fingers are crossed for our next one. Pregnancy isn't always easy or simple and while there are women who crank out babies like machines, many, many, many others...don't.
whichwayisup Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I know, I really do- I feel so raw. I've kept everything so close- but I feel really out of sorts now that I've opened up. I had a miscarriage in the past, I've had this experience before. Maybe my body just isn't meant to have babies. I have so much crap in my head, and I don't know what to do with it. I have to go to work in the morning and be the boss- that's sort of what I am focusing now. Part I bolded.. NO. Don't go there and D, don't beat up on yourself. You feel bad enough as it is, so don't. go. there..
Kamille Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 While you don't want to feel anger and while our instinct might be to try to quelch your anger, I think it needs to come out. But I wonder, have you allowed yourself to express that anger to him? I know I might sound like a heretic, suggesting you tell someone that cannot communicate that the situation and your different reactions to it make you angry, but you don't have to express it in an aggressive tone. It could also be that he cannot communicate because your anger is the elephant in the room. He knows you're disappointed, he likely intellectually knows that you're angry, yet, instead of you acknowledging that anger, you're becoming distant. I struggle with expressing anger too. My therapist is the one who's forced me to start expressing anger (in positive assertive ways). It's hard at first, because for some reason I had integrated the belief that when you express anger, people leave. That anger is ugly. That anger is a loss of control. I was more focused on pleasing people than on letting them know what was eating me up, and giving them a chance to be able to respond to the real issues. You couldn't express your anger and so you felt and continue to feel alone. He might not know what to do with your anger - which would only mean you would be exactly where you are now. Or, au contraire, maybe you two need to be able to talk about what's really going on. Let him get close to you, see what's really eating you up. Don't push him away before you really express yourself.
Lovelybird Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) He isn't talking, that's part of the problem here. I understand why D got angry. It is more than just communication problem. It is about how the man handled the situation, his attitude about if he wants all in. and his lukewarm attitude made D feel very lonely. I guess the miscarriage made D realized she put a lot into the relationship, and didn't see the same degree returned? Maybe the man didn't wake up to the reality of the relationship yet, considering it is only for 4 months. The burden of sex is always on women (although merit on both men and women), men don't get pregnant. Even they feel loss due to a miscarriage, they still don't feel that deep as women do. If he is really a decent guy, he will stick around. If not, he isn't that decent to begin with. give him some time to think about it, he may step up the plate , or may not. I think there is a way you can be vulnerable, and still protect your heart. Let him show you instead of the way around. You need that right now, D I've heard some women had several miscarriages, but later they still have chances to have healthy babies. Edited March 14, 2011 by Lovelybird
carhill Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 My personal perspective is a man needs to take full responsibility for an intimate relationship where he's, frankly, sticking his d!ck into a woman and making a baby, and act and behave like it's the very serious and important dynamic it is. If he can make a baby with her, even accidentally, he can step up and do the heavy lifting of fulfilling his role in other parts of their intimacy. Time elapsed is irrelevant. If he's not ready for intimacy, keep the d!ck in the pants. OP appears to have made her needs known in a reasonable and sensitive matter and it's incumbent upon him to do his part, presuming he wishes to remain in a relationship. If he won't (it's a choice), then that's good information.
Kamille Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I understand why D got angry. It is more than just communication problem. It is about how the man handled the situation, his attitude about if he wants all in. and his lukewarm attitude made D feel very lonely. I guess the miscarriage made D realized she put a lot into the relationship, and didn't see the same degree returned? Maybe the man didn't wake up to the reality of the relationship yet, considering it is only for 4 months. The burden of sex is always on women (although merit on both men and women), men don't get pregnant. Even they feel loss due to a miscarriage, they still don't feel that deep as women do. If he is really a decent guy, he will stick around. If not, he isn't that decent to begin with. give him some time to think about it, he may step up the plate , or may not. I think there is a way you can be vulnerable, and still protect your heart. Let him show you instead of the way around. You need that right now, D I've heard some women had several miscarriages, but later they still have chances to have healthy babies. My point is this: I get the impression that D never communicated to him how the pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage truly made her feel. She might have said: "I feel lonely - I widh you could communicate on this" but from what I can gather, she herself never put her own cards on the table: "I want this baby and I wish you were as excited about this as I am". How can he communicate and respond to her expectations when he has no idea what they are? It's my perception that the current situation is an effect of the lack of possibly painful communication on both sides, not just his.
carhill Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Woman: 'I feel lonely' Man: 'Why' Listen. Man: 'I want you to feel like I'm here for you. What specific actions can I take to do that?' Listen. Then act on that information. It doesn't have to be a quantum change. Pick one specific thing and work it. One thing a day. Not too difficult. The woman's 'job' is to accept these words and actions of respecting and meeting her needs as being *attractive* as well as *wanted*. It's critical that both aspects of acceptance match. If they don't, then she has work to do on herself. OP, with respect to Kamille's assertion regarding communication, could you give us a specific example of some statements/questions/revelations you made directly to your BF?
sunshinegirl Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 My point is this: I get the impression that D never communicated to him how the pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage truly made her feel. She might have said: "I feel lonely - I widh you could communicate on this" but from what I can gather, she herself never put her own cards on the table: "I want this baby and I wish you were as excited about this as I am". How can he communicate and respond to her expectations when he has no idea what they are? It's my perception that the current situation is an effect of the lack of possibly painful communication on both sides, not just his. This may well be the case. On the other hand, having been with a 'clam' myself, it is extremely difficult to open a painful topic, throw out some openers (that anyone capable of communicating would respond to), and then still continue to put out your most vulnerable thoughts and feelings in the face of total, utter silence. Like I said, I can see your perspective on this; I would just offer another point of view, which is that someone who is incapable of engaging D-Lish on what she has already put out there, is not likely going to be capable of responding any better if she just puts more out there.
Lovelybird Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) My point is this: I get the impression that D never communicated to him how the pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage truly made her feel. She might have said: "I feel lonely - I widh you could communicate on this" but from what I can gather, she herself never put her own cards on the table: "I want this baby and I wish you were as excited about this as I am". How can he communicate and respond to her expectations when he has no idea what they are? It's my perception that the current situation is an effect of the lack of possibly painful communication on both sides, not just his. A very good point, but we don't know if D actually said these things or not. One thing confuses me as well is that: if you put your card on the table, completely being vulnerable, show you want more than him, in the end you fear what if he doesn't want as much, that is a big rejection. In most cases, men show their commitment with actions even without communication, NO? This is a scary thing. my firm belief is that woman shouldn't run faster than man, she shouldn't commit more than man, shouldn't put more efforts than a man...if a man shows his lukewarmness and incapability, run before you invest much affection and everything. Edited March 14, 2011 by Lovelybird
Lovelybird Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Woman: 'I feel lonely' Man: 'Why' Listen. Man: 'I want you to feel like I'm here for you. What specific actions can I take to do that?' Listen. Then act on that information. It doesn't have to be a quantum change. Pick one specific thing and work it. One thing a day. Not too difficult. The woman's 'job' is to accept these words and actions of respecting and meeting her needs as being *attractive* as well as *wanted*. It's critical that both aspects of acceptance match. If they don't, then she has work to do on herself. OP, with respect to Kamille's assertion regarding communication, could you give us a specific example of some statements/questions/revelations you made directly to your BF? Is it not difficult when a woman wants commitment, wants having children together and build life together?
carhill Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Not difficult in my viewpoint. YMMV. To me it's about compatibility. I happened to be married to an uncommunicative woman, a relative rarity IME. My fault for not clearly seeing the incompatibilities. She's not a bad person and neither is the OP's boyfriend. Relationships are purely optional parts of life. Neither of them are required to be in a relationship. For example, he might be better matched with a woman like my exW, who prefers actions of service to talking about serious and intimate subjects. My ex would connect really well with a man like that.
sunshinegirl Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Not difficult in my viewpoint. YMMV. To me it's about compatibility. I happened to be married to an uncommunicative woman, a relative rarity IME. My fault for not clearly seeing the incompatibilities. She's not a bad person and neither is the OP's boyfriend. Relationships are purely optional parts of life. Neither of them are required to be in a relationship. For example, he might be better matched with a woman like my exW, who prefers actions of service to talking about serious and intimate subjects. My ex would connect really well with a man like that. You make an interesting point here, Carhill. When the Clam and I broke up, I spent a long time wondering how he was fit to be in a romantic relationship with ANY woman given his total inability to verbally engage. However, perhaps he found in the woman after me someone like your exW! Hopefully so, considering they got married last year. I would hate to think of a woman with communication needs being stuck with the Clam for a lifetime.
carhill Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Another perspective, from a male viewpoint, is a man who elementally has difficulty or inability to express emotions in verbal terms may well feel that a woman who is pursuing such intimacy with him is essentially asking him to do something as alien (and as intimate) as 'growing his d!ck longer'. It might sound incongruous, but welcome to how feelings work for some men. So, 'honey, why don't you talk to me?' = 'honey, why don't you make your d!ck longer'. Perhaps a bit crude, but I can see the feelings clearly, as a man. OP, on a related subject, how do you feel about your 'bedroom talk'? Do you feel intimate and connected with him there? I'm not talking about physical sex but rather the mental and emotional sexual components and their expression.
Recommended Posts