GorillaTheater Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 I don't have any advice to offer, D-lish. I just wanted to say how sorry I am. I know how deeply this hurts. My wife has had two miscarriages. It's hard. I'm not sure we communicated too well either time. Both of us would try, but it was difficult to discuss, to find the words for how we felt.
Stung Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Oh my. I am so sad for your loss, and for you having to go through this whole experience. Truly. I agree with the others who advise you to take care of yourself, get through the loss and the attendant hormonal changes, and recover a bit from all of this before you make a decision about this guy. I am absolutely not minimizing the value and necessity of good communication, and for some of us it's more crucial than for others. But, as you know well by now, there are serious compromises to be made when people decide to spend their lives together. It's a really tricky thing, to discern whether you are making an informed compromise or abandoning your own core values in order to be in a relationship. I don't think you can do this right now, with all the emotions going on. Though I am advising taking time to decide whether you and your guy will work out after all of this, I would immediately talk to him clearly about your needs in this department and see if he is able to step up at all. I doubt a total turnaround would ever happen though. It's just who he is - actions, not words. . I was thinking about how to phrase what I wanted to say to you, D, and then Mme. Chaucer did it for me. I know firsthand how painful and confusing a miscarriage can be, and I understand how much more difficult this must be considering the contextual circumstances. My thoughts are with you. I do hope you're able to recover internal equilibrium on this sooner rather than later.
jerbear Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Not all men are good at talking, and I do feel such a sense of comfort when he's around mostly. I don't know if I am expecting too much out of someone that's already giving me everything he is capable of giving. Maybe I should just appreciate what I have and compensate in other ways, learn to adapt? Hi Delicious! Sorry to hear about the miscarriage. Keep your spirits up. I'm going to rehash some things others have said. You have found a great guy who does actions instead of just words. Instead of adapting, how about learning each others love languages? Not every guy talks and quite frankly we need to be to be told versus hoping we figure it out. You are going through hormonal changes from the miscarriage and now dealing with the emotional side now. All your emotions are understandable. There are so many things going on. You can ask him to be himself while you work things out. Tell him exact things, like you like what he is doing but want XYZ. If you say and ask you'll get. Even if you don't know what you want, tell him so "maybe" he'll figure it out. I really hate to see you make any kind of decision right now, while everything is still so fresh and raw. From the sounds of it, he's pretty much willing to do anything for you and tries so hard to please you. As a thought, instead of looking at it as you adapt or it must end, what about the possibility that both of you can find middle-ground over time by learning how to communicate in a way that works for both of you? I agree tigress. Tough when you view both sides.I have to agree with the middle ground and not to many any decisions now. What I suggest is what does he do by your side. I suggest you guide him a little on how to know you. Not many guys are capable of handling what you are going through. Showing up with a cup of coffee when you need emotional support is a bit strange. A complete inability to deal with any emotion besides happiness seems like something to mark. Maybe he is one of the good guys. But you still need to be with someone who has some emotional maturity. It's important to be able to listen and also to articulate what you're feeling, especially at our age. This leaves open the question about whether he's going to be able to be strong for you in a crisis.Agreed with this one.
Anxiety Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Your BF sounds a lot like me. I don't think he's not talking about it because he chooses not too, but because he doesn't know what to say. Sometimes I have trouble putting my thoughts into words. I'll have a picture in my mind of what I want to say, but have no idea how to say it. So, like your BF I express myself through actions, since sometimes I struggle expressing myself with words. So stick with him, he'd probably give you the world if he could.
Crazy Magnet Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Showing up with a cup of coffee when you need emotional support is a bit strange. A complete inability to deal with any emotion besides happiness seems like something to mark. Maybe he is one of the good guys. But you still need to be with someone who has some emotional maturity. It's important to be able to listen and also to articulate what you're feeling, especially at our age. This leaves open the question about whether he's going to be able to be strong for you in a crisis. I stuck it out with the exBF for over a year. This was present in the beginning and ultimately what caused me to leave him. Talk to him and see if he even understands what it means to identify and share his feelings. In the end I was an emotional cavern and anytime someone throws even halfassed listening and sharing my way I run after it like a starving dog. My guy WAS a good guy. He is hands down the nicest man I have ever met or dated and I absolutely love that about him. But the inability to deal with emotions was never going to make up for how sweet or wonderful he was.
Star Gazer Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 If you can't provide that then I'll have to deal with the fact that in many ways I'm going to be completely alone in this relationship. This is my fear for D. None of us should feel emotionally abandoned in a relationship.
threebyfate Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 D, as anne1707 mentions, talk is cheap and the best talkers are the weakest when things aren't perfect, nevermind get a little tough. Had something going with a guy who could talk for hours on end, day after day, week after week. But when things weren't perfect, he would shut down and run, and not only once. Your man stuck around and tried to do the best he could. I have a hella' lot more respect for someone who tries, than someone who does dick. Literally. When both are willing to try, anything is possible. So, once again, give it some time and like another poster mentioned, see if you can't start discussing things more.
Citizen Erased Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 I am so sorry D. He does at least seem to be trying, he obviously cares for you. I wish he was able to give you what you need right now, but it may have caught him off guard and unsure of how to react. Thinking of you
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 DLish, I hope you are beginning to feel better ... I have been thinking about your situation. I just wanted to put out there that some of your boyfriend's reticent demeanor could be stemming from the fact that this situation might have brought up a lot of conflicting and confusing stuff for him. Not that it's an excuse - but he could have been, as someone else said, blindsided by this development and not sure at all about how he felt about the potential to become the father of your child, what this would mean to your relationship, and to his life. That could cause somewhat of a shutdown. I do truly hope that the two of you can talk through ALL of this and make yourselves understood ... and that he gets a clear grasp of your needs and how he can fulfill them, or what constitutes failing them.
dispatch3d Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 so why don't you ask him why he feels this is a better way to react than talking about it (rather than accusing him of bad communication skills, which isn't that productive fyi...)
Kamille Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 I'm thinking about you and your bf D. I hope you're both doing ok.
snug.bunny Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Sorry to hear of your recent loss. I think your boyfriend cares about you a lot and he sounds like a really good guy, I just think he is having difficulty processing his own emotions while trying to be there for you at the same time. The good thing is, he is processing him emotions WHILE BEING THERE FOR YOU, versus distancing himself from you. There in lays the difference. He may not be the best at communicating his feelings, but it is clear that you and your relationship as a couple, is important to him.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Honey, I'm so sorry for your loss. Have you read, The Five Love Languages? Even if you have, I would suggest picking up a copy and telling him how interesting you think it is. It would be a great nonjudgemental way to kick off a conversation about your differences and your needs. He sounds like a great guy! I agree that you should let your hormones return to normal before making any decision. Sorry again for the difficult time you are having.
whichwayisup Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Sorry for your loss... Lots of hugs to you. Other than his wall of not communicating and being there the way you wanted/needed him to be, he seems like a decent kind man. He was there for you on some level, but not with you on the same wave length. Unfortunately, this may be who he is. Many men cannot handle this stuff, and I just hope that he can put effort in to be better in that department.
Author D-Lish Posted March 13, 2011 Author Posted March 13, 2011 so why don't you ask him why he feels this is a better way to react than talking about it (rather than accusing him of bad communication skills, which isn't that productive fyi...) I have talked to him about it. As I said before, when I told him I wanted us to talk about the pregnancy more, his response was to dote on me more. I also broke down and told him more about how I've been feeling last night, and he listened. I know he's fine with me talking as much as I want, but it's hard not getting too much verbal feedback.
carhill Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Please accept my sincere condolences regarding the loss of your child. Topically, some men follow an unwritten rule of silence based upon their perception, right or wrong, of what they say being used against them later. I don't follow this rule and my exW had plenty of ammunition in our divorce and she wielded it with cunning skill. That's one man's perspective. The experience won't change my style, but I'll be a lot more selective about who gets to hear my carbon dioxide (feelings, care and empathy) in the future. This may be your SO's communication style. To me it sounds like it is. Behaviors can be changed but it's something he'll have to want to do for himself, with you as the beneficiary. Up to you as to whether and how you want to accept it, and him. Wish I had an easy answer.
johan Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Topically, some men follow an unwritten rule of silence based upon their perception, right or wrong, of what they say being used against them later... This may be your SO's communication style. To me it sounds like it is. I don't see it that way. If that were the explanation, then he wouldn't be the "deer in the headlights" when D wanted to talk. "Deer in the headlights" to me is fear and confusion. What you're describing is a choice, and when you choose not to talk, you don't look stunned when you're asked to. I'm really sad for what happened, but I think the saddest part is you had to go through it pretty much on your own, D. From what I can tell he kind of took on the role of a concierge. I know he cares for you, and I'd like to see him translate that caring into a true supporting role and not just revert to kissing your ass, however nice that might be. Actions are definitely more important than words, but neither one is all that great by itself. You need both. If you do choose to settle, it won't last long. If you don't settle, there's a chance he'll come through for you.
carhill Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 IDK, I've watched my best friend 'handle' his wife and his blank stare looks remarkably like 'deer in the headlights'. He does exactly the same things, taking action, like doing chores, but he will actively choose to not engage with her feelings of the moment. I usually end up being the 'talker' and 'empathizer', with limits. I'm also the one who gets into 'trouble'. His response? 'Someday, you'll learn'. He has a successful M of 28 years and I had a failed one of ten. You decide who's doing things 'right'. As I continued, the OP will have to decide if his language of love is healthy for her, presuming he's disclosed and unwilling to bend. As evidenced by my example above, each couple has their unique 'dance' and, if it works for them, it does; if not, not. My exW would have preferred (she said this out loud) someone more 'normal' like my best friend, in this particular area of compatibility. That's really good information.
Author D-Lish Posted March 13, 2011 Author Posted March 13, 2011 Please accept my sincere condolences regarding the loss of your child. Topically, some men follow an unwritten rule of silence based upon their perception, right or wrong, of what they say being used against them later. I don't follow this rule and my exW had plenty of ammunition in our divorce and she wielded it with cunning skill. That's one man's perspective. The experience won't change my style, but I'll be a lot more selective about who gets to hear my carbon dioxide (feelings, care and empathy) in the future. This may be your SO's communication style. To me it sounds like it is. Behaviors can be changed but it's something he'll have to want to do for himself, with you as the beneficiary. Up to you as to whether and how you want to accept it, and him. Wish I had an easy answer. Thanks Carhill. I do want to accept him. One of the things he has said is that he's always afraid of saying the wrong thing. I know his last gf was really controlling. I jokingly said to him once "what do you mean by that?" when he said something, and he looked like he was going to crap his pants. He was so relieved when I told him I was kidding. I think he was beaten down in his last relationship. Some of the things he has mentioned about his ex makes me cringe. So from his perspective, I can see how he might have issues with communication given his past relationship history. He dated her for 3 years. I myself pride myself in being really approachable and easy to talk to. I've always being really adept at reading people and figuring out ways to draw them out. Maybe, with time, he'll become more comfortable opening up to me. Maybe he just needs more time to get used to the fact that I'm never going to treat him like his ex did. He had tickets for a hockey game tonight that he's know about for over a week, and he didn't tell me he was going until this morning. When I asked him why he didn't say anything he said he didn't want me to be mad at him. I've never once in our 4 months of dating given him a hard time about going out. I've actually suggested he go out with his friends for a change because he's always spending time with me. Things like this frustrate me- because I'm a completely different woman than his ex. It hurts a little that he doesn't feel he can tell me things because he's letting his past experiences with his ex dictate how he deals with me. He plays hockey three nights a week, and he often wants to come over after- but I always encourage him to stay with his friends after and have guy time. So it's hard for me to wrap my head around him not being able to tell me he was going to a hockey game. I was annoyed he didn't tell me, but I just decided to be understanding and patient, and just reminded him I wasn't his ex, I wasn't going to rip him a new one every time he wanted to do something fun with his friends. I really do love him, and I'd love any suggestions about how to draw him out a little more. Maybe that's an impossible feat- but I'd like to try. What TBF said before is true- actions are important, and he really was there for me in the best way he knew how- and he's still here for me. It doesn't change the fact that I did and do need an outlet to vent about what happened. I actually called my mom tonight and told her what happened. She's probably the only one I feel comfortable enough to disclose what happened. I started typing out my dilemma on LS here so many times and just never pressed the submit button. I am glad I posted it though- it has helped to let it out. Thanks for everyone's replies.
Isolde Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I'm so sorry this happened, D-lish. One thing no one here has mentioned yet--but you two haven't been together all that long. Could it be that part of the issue is that you don't know each other all that well yet? For certain, people can love one another without having having yet built a shared understanding of communication. This, compounded with his natural tendencies, could explain a good deal of what is happening.
whichwayisup Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 You two are gonna be fine.. It takes abit of time to get to total comfort part of opening up and since you say he has some emotional baggage and hurts from his previous relationship, it may take him more time. Glad you two talked!
carhill Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I know the feeling of being beaten down and can empathize with him. His work, if he chooses to do it, is to accept those feelings as valid and applicable to *his prior relationship* and in no way applicable of the dynamic with you at this time, for (I presume) you haven't 'beat him down'. 'Honey, I feel so close to you when you share how you feel with me, even if those feelings are unexpected or unanticipated. I value your honesty. Intimacy in our relationship is very important to me. When you share with me, do you feel that I accept you and show you love?' I recall seeing a month or two timeline to recover from this difficult event being suggested. I echo that suggestion. I won't speak for your SO but losing a child, by whatever means, would be, and was, a devastating experience. As you know, the older one is, the more likely to miscarry. My exW and I did all of our 'trying' in our 40's so I'm intimately aware of how those events affected me. Hope you feel better soon
Author D-Lish Posted March 13, 2011 Author Posted March 13, 2011 I don't see it that way. If that were the explanation, then he wouldn't be the "deer in the headlights" when D wanted to talk. "Deer in the headlights" to me is fear and confusion. What you're describing is a choice, and when you choose not to talk, you don't look stunned when you're asked to. I'm really sad for what happened, but I think the saddest part is you had to go through it pretty much on your own, D. From what I can tell he kind of took on the role of a concierge. I know he cares for you, and I'd like to see him translate that caring into a true supporting role and not just revert to kissing your ass, however nice that might be. Actions are definitely more important than words, but neither one is all that great by itself. You need both. If you do choose to settle, it won't last long. If you don't settle, there's a chance he'll come through for you. Thanks Jo. After I talked to my mom, she told my dad what happened, and he called me back and pretty much said the same things you did- almost verbatim actually. I did feel alone during that time. As a woman, I'm naturally inclined to talk things out. Not being able to do so was really hard on me. I grew up in an environment with a man like my father, where no conversation was a taboo subject.
carhill Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I went back and read the 'Dude's gonna blow it' thread, as I didn't follow it, and gained more perspective. The last words in the thread stood out to me; a question from a fellow poster: "The only thing in this thread that has raised questions for me is this: what was going on for him that he would allow himself to be treated so badly in his past relationships? It'd be good to learn whether he's addressed whatever caused him to be a doormat." My read of the thread was, in the romance area, he communicated very clearly and completely and much to your liking and satisfaction. I presume that portion of his communication continues. If so, regarding subjects he feels positive and uplifted about, his vocal chords and brain appear to operate wonderfully. However, when 'issues' arise, perhaps less positive and potentially difficult, he freezes up. Does that concur with your read? If not, elaborate. Also, as applicable, do you have an opinion about the question left unanswered from the prior thread? Does he view your joint issues like your pregnancy and miscarriage as 'conflict' and replaying the tapes from the past and, more importantly, where are those tapes coming from? You met his parents pretty early-on, so you likely have a reasonable read on family. Any insight there? One positive tool I learned from MC was to clarify the issue and work my side of it and forget about trying to figure out or work the other person's side of it. As a 'caretaker' personality, it's a unhealthy behavior and, in my case, a builder of resentment. 'Look at all this work I'm doing and you're doing nothing!'. Instead, communicate boundaries and a desire to work the issue and accept the other person's response, but leave it at that. If the other person isn't willing to work on the issue, in your case, communication style/quantity, then it could be an irreconcilable incompatibility. He's not wrong in his 'style' or in how he feels. From the read of the other thread, he has a ton of 'right' going for him. Over time, 'issues' will arise and you'll necessarily decide whether this 'style', if persistent, balances the 'right' in a healthy way or not. No rush. Enjoy the spring
Author D-Lish Posted March 13, 2011 Author Posted March 13, 2011 I went back and read the 'Dude's gonna blow it' thread, as I didn't follow it, and gained more perspective. The last words in the thread stood out to me; a question from a fellow poster: "The only thing in this thread that has raised questions for me is this: what was going on for him that he would allow himself to be treated so badly in his past relationships? It'd be good to learn whether he's addressed whatever caused him to be a doormat." My read of the thread was, in the romance area, he communicated very clearly and completely and much to your liking and satisfaction. I presume that portion of his communication continues. If so, regarding subjects he feels positive and uplifted about, his vocal chords and brain appear to operate wonderfully. However, when 'issues' arise, perhaps less positive and potentially difficult, he freezes up. Does that concur with your read? If not, elaborate. Also, as applicable, do you have an opinion about the question left unanswered from the prior thread? Does he view your joint issues like your pregnancy and miscarriage as 'conflict' and replaying the tapes from the past and, more importantly, where are those tapes coming from? You met his parents pretty early-on, so you likely have a reasonable read on family. Any insight there? One positive tool I learned from MC was to clarify the issue and work my side of it and forget about trying to figure out or work the other person's side of it. As a 'caretaker' personality, it's a unhealthy behavior and, in my case, a builder of resentment. 'Look at all this work I'm doing and you're doing nothing!'. Instead, communicate boundaries and a desire to work the issue and accept the other person's response, but leave it at that. If the other person isn't willing to work on the issue, in your case, communication style/quantity, then it could be an irreconcilable incompatibility. He's not wrong in his 'style' or in how he feels. From the read of the other thread, he has a ton of 'right' going for him. Over time, 'issues' will arise and you'll necessarily decide whether this 'style', if persistent, balances the 'right' in a healthy way or not. No rush. Enjoy the spring His family is nice, they are like the Cleavers, but it did shed some light, they wouldn't acknowldege a fart, let alone an elephant in the room. He does communicate his love for me, but is completely unable to engage in serious issues. He does have a lot of "right" going for him, but I don't know if I can spend the rest of my life with someone that can't talk to me. There were times during that period where I felt like I wanted to break up, because I felt so alone, despite the fact that he was right next to me.
Recommended Posts