deso Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) Hello everyone, I had nowhere else to go for this matter, and I believe you all can help me with my situation. My background is slightly different from some of you here. I am 23 years old. I am a "young adult" with parents going through a divorce. So if it's possible, I would really, really appreciate your comments and advice on this issue. Of course, this was supposed to be a "mutual consent" divorce, where both sides are amicable and willing to move forward from this episode. It turns out my father doesn't want to go in this direction. My father is playing a ruse with everyone. He is lying to his lawyers. He is lying to the court. And yes, he is lying to me. 1.) The Beginning of the End When my mother told him she no longer wants to live together, he immediately canceled my mother's auto insurance policy and her medical prescriptions. He also went to the bank and closed all joint accounts. He withdrew all financial assets, and denies their existence. He told his lawyer that the money is gone. That, of course, is not true. My mother has a copy of his financial records, and this was used during discovery at the first court hearing. It turns out my father did not fully disclose all information to his lawyer. His lawyer was furious. My mother's lawyer motioned for injunctive relief so the accounts would be frozen and she could have a some money (to pay for i.e. bills, lawyer fees, housing, etc). The court granted these requests. The next court date was to be scheduled. 2.) Unfinished Business Interestingly, the money that was to be distributed to both sides didn't happen. My mother's lawyer found out my father did not follow the court's ruling and began to evade any possible dispersion of funds to my mother. I also found out he is using my name, my identity, in order to hold his money in new banking accounts. When I visited him a couple months ago, he told me that he needed my driver's license to "update some information". Also, when asking him for my social security card, he told me that he couldn't give it to me at that time. My suspicion of him using my identity came into fruition when I called my bank and found out there was an additional account on my name. My mother's lawyer filed a petition for contempt and the next court date is scheduled next week. 3.) Fear for the Well-being of Both Parents Two weeks ago, I visited my father again and asked him if he was willing to comply with the court and work out a mutual agreement. He said no. In fact, he said that he wants to make my mother miserable, in any way possible. He doesn't care if it ruins him. In order to protect his money, he is willing to make my mother's life extremely difficult.His demeanor and rhetoric put me on rather high alert, making me so concerned for the emotional and physical well-being of my mother. I'm also concerned that his preoccupation with his money and desire for revenge will hurt himself, more than emotionally and financially. 4.) The Present Dilemma My mother called me today and told me she met with her lawyer. Her lawyer tells her that my father is continuing to play games with the court and even to his new lawyer. He is wary that the divorce process will be unnecessarily lengthened and will take much longer than expected. Her lawyer wants to talk to me. He wants me to go to court. He wants me to be present while my dad speaks to the court, believing that it will be difficult to continue to lie in front of his child. A part of me wants to go. My mother has gone through so much emotional and mental strain because of what my father has done. I am worried that, should the divorce case continue much longer, she will be left with large attorney fees and no financial stability for herself. I also want to go because I don't want my father digging a larger hole for himself. I want him to come to terms with reality, to stop with the lying, the dishonesty, and the self-denial. He is going to the civil court of contempt, which if he is found guilty of contempt, he will face punitive fees and possible jail time. And of course, I am concerned that the money will never be found and my mom won't have a penny to her name. She is an immigrant with only a high school education, and her income is less than modest. She is a hard-working, proper woman, that deserves a break. She is a survivor of many diseases, and she deserves the world. The other part of me does NOT want to go. I told both of them that I did not want to be involved. Even though I support my mother more than my father, it is because she has so many disadvantages (can't speak english well, doesn't know how to pay bills, needs help with her health, etc). I do not want to my father to think I am against him, even though he has wronged so many people during this process, but as his child, I still love him and would love to have him as a part of my life for the future. Another reason why I don't want to be involved is because I am becoming more concerned about the safety of my mother. My father knows where my mom currently lives. He knows her personal information (social security number, phone number, work number, church). I worry that my presence will only deepen his anger and quite possibly make him inflict harm on my mother or attempt to endanger her. I need your advice. This was a very long post, and I apologize for not making it shorter. But with all that said, I need your advice. Under these circumstances, what should I do? Should I go to court and hope that my presence will stop the bleeding? Or should I stay to the side and not go? My father told me he willing to go all the way, till death, to ruin my mother. Yes, of course, it looks like my father is the one who will be ruined. But he doesn't care. Would going to court undermine, or prevent any of this from happening? Will there be any unwanted consequences from doing so? Your advice is desired and much appreciated. Yours, Deso Edited March 11, 2011 by deso
FreeNow Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 I don't generally give advice but I will state my opinion. If it were me, I wouldn't go. I wouldn't enable my father to continue his antics but I wouldn't allow myself to be used as leverage for my mother. If either of my parents had a problem with that now or at any point in the future, I'd remind them that they are adults and due to their choices I exist as well as their marital dilemma. None of it is my doing or due to my own adult choices. Therefore, it's unreasonable to drag me into the middle; in essence, to choose a parent and even expecting me, in a round about way, to solve their short comings and problems for them. I'd go with my head and not my heart on this one...
PegNosePete Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 I don't generally give advice but I will state my opinion. If it were me, I wouldn't go. I wouldn't enable my father to continue his antics but I wouldn't allow myself to be used as leverage for my mother. If either of my parents had a problem with that now or at any point in the future, I'd remind them that they are adults and due to their choices I exist as well as their marital dilemma. None of it is my doing or due to my own adult choices. Therefore, it's unreasonable to drag me into the middle; in essence, to choose a parent and even expecting me, in a round about way, to solve their short comings and problems for them. I'd go with my head and not my heart on this one... +1 to this... It's not your divorce, it's theirs. Stay out of it.
tanabanana92207 Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 I don't think it's going to be your choice in the end. You mentioned that your father had used your identity to establish new bank accounts with the funds he appropriated from their joint bank accounts. Did you mention this to your mother? If you did, she almost certainly told her lawyer. Even if you didn't tell her, I would think that her lawyer would check into that possibility. Though I realize that you don't want to be in the middle of their divorce, you've been placed there through your father's actions. He is hurting your mother by using you. He is hiding assets through you. The question here is.....do you continue to allow your father to use you as a weapon against your mother?
Owl Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 You may have no choice to go. Given what's gone on...I wonder that if you refused to go, they'd simply have you summoned to court. I'm curious tho...WHY is your father being so vengeful towards your mother? Even if he was hurt by her choice to divorce...pushing the edge of being forced to do jail time for contempt doesn't make much sense. What's got him sooooo angry at her to act like this?
Yasuandio Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 First, I must comment on what a mature young person you are! You obviously have weighed out both sides of this equasion stunningly, with no bias that I can pin point. You have presented a very wise analysis of the facts. There is only one consideration here, which completely takes the matter out of your hands. Tanabanana92207 and Owl have it. You are well aware that your father is committing identity fraud using identification you may or may noy have knowingly provided. It doesn't really matter now, because you are well aware that your father is seeking/or holding onto other IDs that belong to you. He has outright told you what he is doing. You don't want to participate in a crime do you? Perhaps Willowthewisp can weigh in on this, since she has an understang of the law. But commonsense dicated your Daddy could be held accountable for a number of charges if any of this turns out to be proven: Purgery Fraud Contempt Identity Theft If he used any computers or money machines, on line tranfers, etc., that opens up a whole nother can of worms. IDK, but misusing your child's Social Security number? The government officials might find that to be a crime. I'm just guess here, but it probably isn't a good idea to pull a fast like this on a banking institution? The moral is: Avoid breaking the law. If you have been unknowly dragged into a crime, come forward now. Perhaps with your own public defender - so mom and dad can't put you in the middle. I do not have a legal background. This is just my opinion. It is always my practice to stay away from people that break the law. It is possible what your dad is doing could effect your future, or at the very least, your credit standing. Wait until you get more posts. Especially from Willowthewisp.
FreeNow Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) I will give advice regarding the identity theft. Contact law enforcement and cooperate with them and the prosecutor. If you are subpoenaed in the divorce proceedings, it *should* only be about the identity theft. I'd think it unlikely you'd receive a subpoena in the civil matter (their divorce) as the police report, statements from the bank regarding the account, and the like are all the things your mother's attorney would really need to present it to the judge. The divorce is a special kind of lawsuit, not a criminal proceeding. Appearing under subpoena means you didn't have to choose between parents or solve their issues for them... you would be obliged by the court to show. No summons, no obligation. The identity theft probably constitutes a crime against you, the victim, perpetrated by your father, the accused. The financial ramifications to your mother and your parent's civil matter is their own issue. Deciding to be involved in their divorce proceeding beyond a subpoena is entirely up to you. ETA: Apparently Yasuandio and I are thinking alike on this! We are cross posting. lol Edited March 11, 2011 by FreeNow ETA
2sunny Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 you seem logical and mature for your age. since your Dad has put money that is BOTH your Mom's and Dad's - YOU have the power (since it's now in your name) to do with it what is right. get the money. give half to your Mom and half to your Dad. sue your Dad for using your identity. that is the right thing. he never asked permission and THAT is against the law. he IS accountable for his actions - he broke the law at YOUR expense and put you at risk and put you in the middle... he should have consequences for his actions. all of this evens things out to what should have been done to begin with... get moving - you have work to do in order to set things right...
Yasuandio Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 As great minds do Freenow! And I didn't even get a chance to edit my typos! Deso, I was so stunned by what you wrote my head was spinning. Thank goodness for Freenow's organized thoughtful response.
2sunny Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 You may have no choice to go. Given what's gone on...I wonder that if you refused to go, they'd simply have you summoned to court. I'm curious tho...WHY is your father being so vengeful towards your mother? Even if he was hurt by her choice to divorce...pushing the edge of being forced to do jail time for contempt doesn't make much sense. What's got him sooooo angry at her to act like this? this really is NONE of his business - that part is only between his parents. asking him to stay in the middle when he has no business being in the middle of it - and was forced to be in the middle by his Father's actions - is not right. i don't blame him for wanting to stay out of it. he has a right to take action on the money his father put in his name. he has action to take on identity theft. but being in the middle is not productive... no wonder he's torn. ((hugs))
willowthewisp Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 First, I must comment on what a mature young person you are! You obviously have weighed out both sides of this equasion stunningly, with no bias that I can pin point. You have presented a very wise analysis of the facts. There is only one consideration here, which completely takes the matter out of your hands. Tanabanana92207 and Owl have it. You are well aware that your father is committing identity fraud using identification you may or may noy have knowingly provided. It doesn't really matter now, because you are well aware that your father is seeking/or holding onto other IDs that belong to you. He has outright told you what he is doing. You don't want to participate in a crime do you? Perhaps Willowthewisp can weigh in on this, since she has an understang of the law. But commonsense dicated your Daddy could be held accountable for a number of charges if any of this turns out to be proven: Purgery Fraud Contempt Identity Theft If he used any computers or money machines, on line tranfers, etc., that opens up a whole nother can of worms. IDK, but misusing your child's Social Security number? The government officials might find that to be a crime. I'm just guess here, but it probably isn't a good idea to pull a fast like this on a banking institution? The moral is: Avoid breaking the law. If you have been unknowly dragged into a crime, come forward now. Perhaps with your own public defender - so mom and dad can't put you in the middle. I do not have a legal background. This is just my opinion. It is always my practice to stay away from people that break the law. It is possible what your dad is doing could effect your future, or at the very least, your credit standing. Wait until you get more posts. Especially from Willowthewisp. I'm not able to give any legal advice on this forum or to anyone due to professional conduct regulations, I am not a qualified lawyer yet and even if I were it would be highly unethical for me to give advice of a legal nature to anyone other than a client under a retainer. I'm sorry I can't help but I could get into serious trouble and lose my career. Certainly in the UK there are free organisations that can help with legal advice, Citizins advice bureu is a good place to start.
FreeNow Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 since your Dad has put money that is BOTH your Mom's and Dad's - YOU have the power (since it's now in your name) to do with it what is right. get the money. give half to your Mom and half to your Dad. Although I don't disagree with the concept, following that line in certain jurisdictions could earn the OP criminal charges. Since the OP knows full well the money isn't the OP's... disposal of a large enough amount could be charged as felonious. In spirit, I agree. In practical legal reality, I would caution against it depending on the way the local judiciary winds blow.
just_some_guy Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 If it were me, I'd lay down the law to dear old dad. If he put money in accounts in MY name, I'd go to the banks, notify them that a fraud was being committed and close/freeze the accounts. Then I'd file criminal complaints for the misuse of your ID and SS# to commit a fraud. I'd also write a letter to *both* lawyers and the judge by certified mail, detailing what you know about said accounts and to kindly leave you out of it. I would also tell them that I would NOT appear in court for any reason, on behalf of one or the other, nor would I let my name or identity be used to hide assets or commit a fraud against either of them. Your dad is SCREWING himself. You must disavow as fast as you can and not participate in his game playing. You would also do well to get some legal advice yourself. You may be able to get injunctive relief or a restraining order preventing either of them from using you in their battle. As an adult, you have a right stay out of this mess. You may have to get very firm with the both of them.
You Go Girl Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Daddy is hardly going to go running to the courts and scream that "my child stole money that i stole from the marriage and hid under his/her name and gave half to the mother!" So there's nothing to worry about with going to the bank, emptying the account, and closing it. Give half to mom, half to dad, and do it in a documented fashion--by check or some other tracable paper trail. Essentially, your dad gave you the money as a gift, imho, to do with what you will. The money isn't stolen from the marriage. People spend marital money all the time. Unless there has been a financial freeze of assets, seems to me you can do with that money as you will. Then simply give each half. Tell dad you had to do this in order to save his hide, because you didn't want to have to reveal he has committed identity theft. Then sternly tell him if he opens anymore accounts in your name, that you will be going to the police, and that he doesn't get a second chance to pull something like this again and get away with it. You don't really want to get the law and courts involved and screw your dad, I know! So why in the world would you bring it to the authorities attention that you dad has committed identity theft? Your dad is obviously in enough grief and pain, and probably trouble too, if he keeps up these types of antics. I highly doubt you want to play a part in your dad getting nailed for committing some type of felony. Give him your own little thrashing by splitting up the money and announcing that you won't let him get away with identity theft a second time. If you dad tries to hide money in the future, then he won't be using your identity, and it will be all on him. Your dad is obviously committing a type of hari kari divorce-war suicide, and you can't stop him from doing other stupid things. But this one is a no-brainer. Edited March 12, 2011 by You Go Girl
Author deso Posted March 12, 2011 Author Posted March 12, 2011 To everybody: I am overwhelmed by the show of support from you all. I was checking my thread the first day and it seemed that no one was willing to chime in. BUT now, so many people have responded. It's a great feeling and I really appreciate all your comments. I have a couple of points and another update to the situation: 1.) The Notion of Revenge I 100% understand why people believe what my dad has done to me and especially my mom warrants a "call for action" by me, whether it's through legal action or personal action (calling the bank, filing identity theft, etc). But if you look at this man, my father, as a whole, you see a man whose only value in life is found in his savings. His preoccupation with money has detached himself from his family, and he has estranged himself from what society considers to be 'norms and values' (love, support, care). It's sad, very sad, to see him like this. I see a man whose lost in the world and has no sense of self or any sense of belonging. This is what pulls me back from desires of revenge or personally undermining him in any way. He may lose everything in this world. But I pray that he doesn't lose himself. I also hope that he can find meaning in his life and learn from his mistake. That is why I can't commit to undercutting his plans. Even though he's done so much wrong, I can't do it because I feel so sad for the man. 2.) Update: I decided not to go to court today. However, I did meet with my mom's lawyer and he gave me some more information about my father's schematics. He believes that if there's more proof (other than a testimony from me) that my dad is hiding the money using my identity, then it will give him the opportunity to fully disclose information and have the divorce process move forward. I don't want to get too much into detail about what kind of proof he is looking for, but it does have to deal with taxes. I signed off the authorization for my mom's lawyer to do so. Even though I'll be more involved in the matter (if the lawyer does find the proof), I hope this will give my dad another opportunity to come clean and come to terms with himself. Again, I want to thank you all for the love and support. Some say I'm acting "mature" for my age, but I feel like I should show more maturity. More maturity through greater patience. More maturity through better understanding. And more maturity through trust, a trust that's not only myself, but to a higher being that knows more than I do.
You Go Girl Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Telling your mom's attorney about the identity theft is joining that camp, albeit passively by insisting that you play no active part in it. Your mother must know now also of this money. I can see what you are attempting, which is to not upset your father because you pity his soul for caring more about money than people. His identity is wrapped up in the money too much. You've taken a wise path that protects you from having your father hold this against you. Good for you...LS is a place to vent and try to sort things through emotionally, but it's no place for law decisions. However the problem still remains that your father has crossed the line with identity theft. That is about YOUR boundaries, not their divorce.
FreeNow Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Daddy is hardly going to go running to the courts and scream that "my child stole money that i stole from the marriage and hid under his/her name and gave half to the mother!" So there's nothing to worry about with going to the bank, emptying the account, and closing it. It depends on the parent. I have two biological parents that would've sent me to prison in a heartbeat if they felt I crossed them. My father tried to make charges up many times over the years. There was a 'contract' on my head for years last time I pissed him off. If he were still around, he'd keep trying. lol I've also sat in the gallery of courts and watched relatives (including Daddies) throw as much as they could get to stick. It really depends on how evil/devious/offended/pissed off they are. The OP is in the best position to gauge how far he might take things. Maybe he's a pussycat and the financial thing is his only shtick.
FreeNow Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Again, I want to thank you all for the love and support. Some say I'm acting "mature" for my age, but I feel like I should show more maturity. More maturity through greater patience. More maturity through better understanding. And more maturity through trust, a trust that's not only myself, but to a higher being that knows more than I do. You're doing fine... better than I could have at your age. As You Go Girl points out, defend YOUR boundaries. I hope all works out for you.
Author deso Posted March 22, 2011 Author Posted March 22, 2011 So here's an update on what's been going on lately. I didn't go to the court hearting last week. My father's still denying that he hid any assets. No one believes him. The court is ready to punish him as he's been held in contempt. However, the judge gave him another chance to come clean with disclosing all assets for the next hearing (which is in April). My mom's lawyer wants me to go this time. He's not forcing me to go, but he says that my father talked about me in court, claiming I provided him money the past 6 months to pay bills, living expenses, etc. None of this is true, of course. Since his accounts were frozen, he gave me money so I could use my account and pay the bills for him. My mom's lawyer says he will ask me to do two things. 1.) To explain that I did not use my own money to pay his bills and that my dad provided me with the money. 2.) To act as a mediator and ask dad to be reasonable and stop playing these games. My head isn't thinking clearly because I can only think of the consequences. I'll explain more. 1.) I am concerned that if I do go to court, my dad will think I'm taking my mom's side by blocking his "plans". I'm worried that he will harass my mom and put her in danger. Recently, my dad went to my mom's church to look for a contact list. I don't know why. When a church member saw him inside looking for papers, he asked my dad what he was doing and my dad brushed him off. They got into a small argument and my dad left. Before that incident, my mom's car wasn't working. Ironically, it was the day of the hearing. Someone, or something, opened the hood and unscrewed a latch off the car battery. Of course there is no evidence my dad did it, but SOMEBODY had to do it. Also, two weeks ago, my dad attempted to close my mom's newly created retirement account. He couldn't access the funds but changed the address to his address. 2.) I'm worried that if i don't go to court, my dad will be jailed. There is a high chance this will happen if he doesn't come clean during the next hearing. I'm worried that not only will this ruin my father, but it will add more fuel to the fire in his desire to ruin my mom. Who knows, what if he comes out of jail, thinking he has no reason or value in this world, that he would then attempt to hurt my mother? I know, it sounds like a stretch, but with all of the harassing and games my dad is playing, I am so concerned about my mom and her well-being. We're living in fear. I don't know what to do.
2sure Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 The divorce aside, as you have been given good and solid advice regarding that... Many many "young adult" children have had thier identities stolen , debt incurred, credit ruined and legal action taken all because a parent used thier name. Your financial ability to get credit, buy a house, get a job - could all be affected.
just_some_guy Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 When people misbehave, you have to let them face the consequences of their own actions. If you have the ability, I would suggest getting your own attorney and have him put your Dad, Mom, all the lawyers and the courts on notice. If this continues, you may be forced to file a criminal complaint. Identity theft, especially of relatives and sadly, of children, is very, very common. YOU must YOUR boundaries, with the both of them. No different than an adult child setting painful boundaries with an alcoholic or drug-addicted parent.
FreeNow Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 When people misbehave, you have to let them face the consequences of their own actions. YOU must YOUR boundaries, with the both of them. No different than an adult child setting painful boundaries with an alcoholic or drug-addicted parent. ^^ Pretty much this.
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