Slippery slope...

[findingnemo]

There has been a development in my communication with MM that has got me a bit worried. The last time I posted, I received some really good advice. I was going to have a talk with MM about my feelings and put the ball in his court. I wanted a definitive answer about what we should do about our EA and needed to be ready for a negative answer which would have meant that I walk away forever. Well, I put it off.

 

I put it off because I need his company's services on a new project I am starting. The project will last 6 months. Basically, MM and I have a business R that is quite profitable for both of us and has been for years. As I explained earlier, we went NC for months when we stopped the A 7 yrs ago. When we started talking again, it was business related. I was in control of my feelings for him and ignored them. At this time, I had gotten married and started a family. However, twice in my M, I called MM crying my guts out (abusive stbxh). Those are the only times during this period that I admitted to him that I had made a mistake, that I should have been with him. He, OTOH, would once in a while call me up and tell me that he loved and missed me. There was only one incident where he called to tell me about some problems with his W.

 

Back to the problem: Our businesses are symbiotic in a sense. A lot of times I need his services and he needs mine. We've been doing this for years without incident. Before I left him/ended the A in 2004, we had discussed starting a branch of his company in my city. He wanted me to be a shareholder with him. I did all the paperwork and was ready to go. He suddenly stopped communicating on this issue. I didn't push him.

- it was obvious why he had changed his mind.

 

Lately some specific opportunites have come up. I told him I thought he should pursue them and suggested someone I know as a partner for him. No problem there, right? This conversation occurred yesterday morning. He surprised me by asking me to become a shareholder and when I told him that this would lead to problems with W, he said that it won't. His words..."my W knows that I am a grown man now. She knows that I know what I'm doing". I have no idea what that even means.

 

This partnership would make a lot of sense for the future.

 

So here are the thoughts going through my head right now.

1. Will being in a business partnership put me in a weaker position when it comes to our EA?

2. Even if we were able to avoid a PA for the next 10 years, wouldn't we be hiding something from the W and therefore be engaging in deceit? This is a financial bond on top of everything else.

3. Why do I feel that all my efforts to avoid getting back into a R with this man, are unnatural? Why do I feel that...I don't even know how to say this without feeling stupid...why do I feel like I am fighting the inevitable? I don't know how or when, but I am beginning to think that maybe I can't escape this "thing". For those who ended up with MM permanently, how do you know?

 

Please help me work through this. I don't trust myself to think clearly. I feel like I'm playing Russian Roulette.

[whichwayisup]

Don't do this. For so many reasons..

 

His words..."my W knows that I am a grown man now. She knows that I know what I'm doing". I have no idea what that even means.

 

Reading this makes my skin crawl. How does it make you feel?

 

I put it off because I need his company's services on a new project I am starting. The project will last 6 months. Basically, MM and I have a business R that is quite profitable for both of us and has been for years

 

So, basically, don't rock the boat..

 

I guess the lines between personal and professional are crossed.

 

Can you handle this? Working with him closely? Even if things go badly and change between you two, do you have it in you to be professional? Does he?

He balked in the past, for whatever reason, why would it be different now?

 

 

So here are the thoughts going through my head right now.

1. Will being in a business partnership put me in a weaker position when it comes to our EA?

 

It'll complicate things, definately. He's a man and unless he feels you're his equal, chances are, he will assume he's number one and you're number two.

 

2. Even if we were able to avoid a PA for the next 10 years, wouldn't we be hiding something from the W and therefore be engaging in deceit? This is a financial bond on top of everything else.

 

Yes.

 

More time needs to be given so you can really think this through with your head and not heart. So far, you're doing a great job. Can you talk to a trusted friend, or other family members that may know your situation? Just to get more feedback.

Also, be bluntly honest with your exMM about this stuff. It has to be discussed and IF this is a go, there has to be boundries and lines that neither of you cross. Otherwise it's a potiental scary mess if things go south..

3. Why do I feel that all my efforts to avoid getting back into a R with this man, are unnatural? Why do I feel that...I don't even know how to say this without feeling stupid...why do I feel like I am fighting the inevitable? I don't know how or when, but I am beginning to think that maybe I can't escape this "thing". For those who ended up with MM permanently, how do you know?

 

Okay, there are afew issues going on. Work and personal.

 

your reasons to want to be his business partner. Is it just worked related or is it a chance to start the A up again, and hope he'll finally leave his wife? After so many years, he hasn't left or divorced, even when you two were apart and the A was over, he never left so something is keeping him there. People who want a divorce, do so, no matter what.

 

The thing is, those who have ended up with their MM (the few that I know of on LS) their affairs weren't long and drawn out. A plan was made and actions followed. There wasn't game playing, lying, gaslighting, waivering back and forth, leaving home, going back home.

 

You and him have a connection. Is it real? Probably. But, just because you want him and he may want you, doesn't mean you two meant to be. Have you ever had a chance to work through the feelings and see if they'll go away? Has he?

Did his wife ever find out about the A? Or be suspicious of it?

 

Anyway, take time to think about things. Keep posting and hopefully more will jump on this thread and help you more.

[East7]

So here are the thoughts going through my head right now.

1. Will being in a business partnership put me in a weaker position when it comes to our EA?

2. Even if we were able to avoid a PA for the next 10 years, wouldn't we be hiding something from the W and therefore be engaging in deceit? This is a financial bond on top of everything else.

3. Why do I feel that all my efforts to avoid getting back into a R with this man, are unnatural? Why do I feel that...I don't even know how to say this without feeling stupid...why do I feel like I am fighting the inevitable? I don't know how or when, but I am beginning to think that maybe I can't escape this "thing". For those who ended up with MM permanently, how do you know?

 

Please help me work through this. I don't trust myself to think clearly. I feel like I'm playing Russian Roulette.

 

Hi Nemo,

We had some business projects with my xMW and I quickly realized it would be ridiculous, and as for analogy to your project, here is why you need to avoid it :

 

1 - Every opportunity to meet for business would turn to an opportunity to get l@id or worse to get hurt, fight etc...Thus it will shift the focus from the business itself. It is just ridiculous to do business with AP, IMHO...

 

2 - You will reinforce his marriage as he will have an opportunity to get with you what he hasn't in his marriage thus have the best of both worlds with no need to move from his marriage. You can become a permanent mistress for years.

 

3 - If you fight or things turn bad, your business will be affected.

 

4 - You will be in a LD A and it will prevent you to have a life, a family, while MM will have it all. Having a LD A for him will make it easy to justify coming, meeting with you and spend nights etc over..It is very tempting isn't it, but think about long-term.

 

Bottomline IMHO, business and affair don't go together well.

[findingnemo]

Thanks, WWIU. My responses in bold below.

 

Don't do this. For so many reasons..

 

 

Reading this makes my skin crawl. How does it make you feel?

 

Bewildered to say the least.

 

So, basically, don't rock the boat..

 

I guess the lines between personal and professional are crossed.

 

Can you handle this? Working with him closely? Even if things go badly and change between you two, do you have it in you to be professional? Does he?

He balked in the past, for whatever reason, why would it be different now?

 

His actions and attitude when we were in the A changed when I left him. Starting the new company together happened while in the A. After I left, I got married just over a year later. He suddenly wanted to work with me and it was to my benefit frankly. He tried in the first few years to get physical but I rejected him. In anger once, he asked me why I wouldn't you know...and when I told him that I don't believe in cheating, he told me that the situation was perfect. He was married and now so was I. I was so upset with him because in my mind he was disrespecting my H that I walked out of the meeting. I refused to talk to him for almost a year after that. Since then, he has not pushed for anything. To cut a long story short, I would think he balked because I was single and owning a business with me was detrimental to his marriage. So how come now that I'm getting a D, he wants to do this? There's no difference between single and divorced. Or is there?

 

 

 

It'll complicate things, definately. He's a man and unless he feels you're his equal, chances are, he will assume he's number one and you're number two.

 

That is quite true!!!

 

Yes.

 

More time needs to be given so you can really think this through with your head and not heart. So far, you're doing a great job. Can you talk to a trusted friend, or other family members that may know your situation? Just to get more feedback.

Also, be bluntly honest with your exMM about this stuff. It has to be discussed and IF this is a go, there has to be boundries and lines that neither of you cross. Otherwise it's a potiental scary mess if things go south..

 

My friends who know about us are not very helpful right now. One of them is ultra religious (a new development) and advises me to pray about it. Ok, no problem. The other thinks that I should become MM's 2nd wife. She argues that I love my independence and that being a 2nd wife would be perfect for me. Her advice on how to achieve this is quite unconventional and aggressive. I don't even want to state it here.

Okay, there are afew issues going on. Work and personal.

 

your reasons to want to be his business partner. Is it just worked related or is it a chance to start the A up again, and hope he'll finally leave his wife? After so many years, he hasn't left or divorced, even when you two were apart and the A was over, he never left so something is keeping him there. People who want a divorce, do so, no matter what.

 

Work related-ish:o. The business is a great opportunity for both of us truly. The thing though is that our business R works because we trust each other. In a sense, everything we've done so far works because of our "feelings" for each other. I have done things for him that I would never do for someone else. He has done things for my family only because of how he feels.

 

The thing is, those who have ended up with their MM (the few that I know of on LS) their affairs weren't long and drawn out. A plan was made and actions followed. There wasn't game playing, lying, gaslighting, waivering back and forth, leaving home, going back home.

 

True. Our A went on for years.

 

You and him have a connection. Is it real? Probably. But, just because you want him and he may want you, doesn't mean you two meant to be. Have you ever had a chance to work through the feelings and see if they'll go away? Has he?

Did his wife ever find out about the A? Or be suspicious of it?

 

I believe that the connection is real. I tried everything to stop feeling like I do and this over a period of 7+ years. I don't know what else to do. About his W finding out. Here is what pi$$es me off about MM. He insists that W has no idea most times. But I know that she did suspect that we were seeing each other in 1994 before they were married. (we weren't yet). She was his fiance and seemed determined to prove this to me in the silliest ways then. Her reaction to me was one of things that showed me that he liked me too. Although most times he says she has no idea and we have had conversations during non-working hours, there have been "incidents". She has found text messages - actually only one incriminating one. He would sometimes tell me that she was upset about something and he would get off the phone in her presence. It's confusing because there was no rhyme or reason to MM hiding our friendship from his W. Just like what he said above. What the hell does that mean? That his cheating days are over and she knows it?

 

Anyway, take time to think about things. Keep posting and hopefully more will jump on this thread and help you more.

 

I had put off talking to him so that we could do this project and finish it. I was thinking it's just 6 months - I can wait. With MM's new business suggestion, I may have to have that talk after all.:sick:

[2sunny]

stick to the business you two do together - leave all the "feelings" and "personal" stuff out of it to keep things as simple and UNCOMPLICATED as possible.

[findingnemo]

Hi Nemo,

We had some business projects with my xMW and I quickly realized it would be ridiculous, and as for analogy to your project, here is why you need to avoid it :

 

1 - Every opportunity to meet for business would turn to an opportunity to get l@id or worse to get hurt, fight etc...Thus it will shift the focus from the business itself. It is just ridiculous to do business with AP, IMHO...

 

2 - You will reinforce his marriage as he will have an opportunity to get with you what he hasn't in his marriage thus have the best of both worlds with no need to move from his marriage. You can become a permanent mistress for years.

 

3 - If you fight or things turn bad, your business will be affected.

 

4 - You will be in a LD A and it will prevent you to have a life, a family, while MM will have it all. Having a LD A for him will make it easy to justify coming, meeting with you and spend nights etc over..It is very tempting isn't it, but think about long-term.

 

Bottomline IMHO, business and affair don't go together well.

 

Hey East,

 

Thanks for telling me your experiences. I think I am deluding myself into thinking that I can control things up close. I have managed so far because we live in different cities and so are separated physically as well. I also limited the number of times we met and mae sure it was in public places. In a partnership, I will probably not be able to resist for too long. I can't imagine having a fight with him over business. It could get really ugly.

 

As for enabling his M...I hear you. Why buy the cow if he gets the milk for free, right?

[whichwayisup]

Hi people! I’m new to this topic, but I’m really interested in it. Could you provide me with some advice where I should start from?

 

Dave, start your own thread and then others can help you.

[whichwayisup]

In anger once, he asked me why I wouldn't you know...and when I told him that I don't believe in cheating, he told me that the situation was perfect. He was married and now so was I. I was so upset with him because in my mind he was disrespecting my H that I walked out of the meeting. I refused to talk to him for almost a year after that. Since then, he has not pushed for anything. To cut a long story short, I would think he balked because I was single and owning a business with me was detrimental to his marriage. So how come now that I'm getting a D, he wants to do this? There's no difference between single and divorced. Or is there?

 

This guy is a total selfish person. He has NO qualms in cheating on his wife. So, let's say you two do divorce and end up together. The qualities he's shown you, who he is as a person, inside, the core of him, his morals.. is that someone who can be lifetime partner, husband material? He's untrustworthy and cruel.

 

I think if you go ahead with this business adventure, you will be the one who will hurt. When it blows up, his wife finds out the past A and current EA, he'll put ALL the blame on you and screw you over. he's like a kid who sulks.

 

Neither of you two can handle working together, keeping it professional. It's just not worth it.

[Emme]

Oh this is a bad idea. I only say this because you never mix business with pleasure and even though the pleasure is in the past, it can arise again. He stopped all business ventures due to you stopping the affair once, who's to say he won't do it again. I don't care if he cliams his wife knows he's a grown man now. If you wore a pair of edible panties in front of him he'd go weak. You can't risk being a shareholder with a man who might turn on you if he doesn't get his way. He has you in the palm of his hands. That's not where you want to be. If you need him for one last project use him and be done with him. As far as a future in business together, hell no. Sometimes, you got to know when to hold em know when to fold em. Fold em, and run. Money isn't everything.

[SidLyon]

First my quals - I'm an accountant (CPA) and lawyer with more than 30 years experience in the business/commercial/financial world.

 

I would advise against it but if you are considering it you need to weigh up many factors.

 

- All the normal things you would consider when entering into a new business arrangement - who is involved - do you trust them to always do things in the best interests of the arrangement - can you afford to lose whatever it is you are putting into the arrangement if it goes belly-up - how will your business reputation be affected - the prospects of success of the arrangement - what assurances and securities (if any) will you get from the other participants.

 

- As you are also having an affair with the MM you also need to consider the involvement of his wife and any "family" assets/investments that he puts into the business arrangement. If it's family investments he's putting into the arrangement then that makes his wife a participant in the business sense. You already know he's willing to deceive her; so how do you feel about it, given that you and she would both be business participants and you already know he's doing the wrong thing by a participant? If things went bad, this might go against you as you couldn't claim that you thought he was honest with all business participants.

 

- The old adages "avoid mixing business and pleasure"; and "don't do business with family/friends" have a basis in reality - not always of course.

 

- Also how did he behave last time you were in business together - did it adversely affect you in the business sense? Did you ever feel concerned that he would treat you badly in the business sense if you withdrew from him in the personal sense?

 

Just food for thought. Obviously I know nothing of the actual proposal and how your business relationship will be structured; so I suggest you get independent advice that you pay for, especially if you have a lot to lose.

[fooled once]

Don't do this. For so many reasons..

 

Reading this makes my skin crawl. How does it make you feel?

 

So, basically, don't rock the boat..

 

I guess the lines between personal and professional are crossed.

 

Can you handle this? Working with him closely? Even if things go badly and change between you two, do you have it in you to be professional? Does he?

He balked in the past, for whatever reason, why would it be different now?

 

It'll complicate things, definately. He's a man and unless he feels you're his equal, chances are, he will assume he's number one and you're number two.

 

Yes.

 

More time needs to be given so you can really think this through with your head and not heart. So far, you're doing a great job. Can you talk to a trusted friend, or other family members that may know your situation? Just to get more feedback.

Also, be bluntly honest with your exMM about this stuff. It has to be discussed and IF this is a go, there has to be boundries and lines that neither of you cross. Otherwise it's a potiental scary mess if things go south..

 

Okay, there are afew issues going on. Work and personal.

 

your reasons to want to be his business partner. Is it just worked related or is it a chance to start the A up again, and hope he'll finally leave his wife? After so many years, he hasn't left or divorced, even when you two were apart and the A was over, he never left so something is keeping him there. People who want a divorce, do so, no matter what.

 

The thing is, those who have ended up with their MM (the few that I know of on LS) their affairs weren't long and drawn out. A plan was made and actions followed. There wasn't game playing, lying, gaslighting, waivering back and forth, leaving home, going back home.

 

You and him have a connection. Is it real? Probably. But, just because you want him and he may want you, doesn't mean you two meant to be. Have you ever had a chance to work through the feelings and see if they'll go away? Has he?

Did his wife ever find out about the A? Or be suspicious of it?

 

Anyway, take time to think about things. Keep posting and hopefully more will jump on this thread and help you more.

 

Ditto.

 

Please don't FN. Please don't.

[findingnemo]

You guys are really helping me out. Thank you all.

 

I can see that I need to separate issues, ie. Business and Pleasure. It is clear that I need to avoid getting into a formal long term contract with MM. It would probably be a bad idea even if he was my H given our clashing management styles. Thanks, SidLyon. I needed the refresher on the "don'ts" in partnerships. I hadn't even thought about the legal consequences should he die and the W inherits his shares. Talk about a full blown war...

 

WWIU, I know what you are saying about MM's character. I would have said the same exact thing. There's a lot of negative things. My brain says that this is a dead end and that I should move on. My mind will, in a minute, list 100 negative things he has done to me. It will remind me of how it felt to be the OW and what he put me through. But my heart says no. It's telling me that I'm making yet another mistake. That I am a fighter who has fought for everything I have but never for him. I always believed that if they love you, they will come. That's what I learned - the men chase the women. He did come, a long time ago. I said no because that's what I needed to say then. I don't have any regrets about that. I do however regret allowing us to have an A. I should have fought for him. When I look back now, I realize that he'd been married a couple of years when the A began. I should have demanded clarity, openness, honesty in our R then. Now it's been 13 years since the M and it seems more of an impossibitlity. Yet I don't want to walk away and have the same regret another 10 years from now.

 

The problem maybe that my heart remembers him as he was. I know him...or rather I knew him. I didn't fall in love with a MM. He was there for me at first, there were never any issues like lying and hiding until years later. Our R didn't begin as an A and was very serious. Regardless, he did turn into the standard lying and cheating MM later. My mind judges him by the negative actions which are more recent but my heart looks at him as he was. The question is, do people change? In this case, did he really change into a "bad" person or did the circumstances turn him into one? Which of the characteristics are real?

 

Does the dynamic of affairs inevitably turn a MP into a selfish person? To successfully carry on an A, the MP must acquire some serious skills in subterfuge. Once in an A, the traits become more ingrained making it is easier for him/her to continue lying and cheating with less guilt. So maybe they can't change back. He could truly be insensitive, cruel, mean, selfish and he was all those things. But the emotion I remember feeling most of all was disappointment. A lot of times he was good to me but when he did those selfish things, he didn't seem like himself. I was always kind of shocked that MM could do this. It was so out of character and it left me crushed rather than angry.

 

I am aware that I could be wrong. In fact, I suspect that there are several flaws in my heart's argument:o. This could all be standard rationalizing. But I still need to figure it out because if he's truly this "terrible" person, then it would be disastrous for me to end up with him. But what if in there somewhere is the person I knew?