Titania22 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Hey Guys, More just a general Huh! about how men continue to make no sense. Obviously, as you know, I have had sexual experience with a few guys since I joined, and the common theme has been uninterested in anything more, or even anything repeatable. Only one of these guys has seen fit to carry on a friendship after the fact, and that guy has been pretty consistent in his want for the friendship. As you are aware, he gave me some computer hardware a few weeks ago. Last week he spent hours over the phone helping me with my computer virus, and i even drove the computer over to him, when it had trouble reinstalling windows. Well today on skype, he mentioned he was at the mall yesterday and noticed something he thought I would like and so picked it up for me. A PRESENT! A real present from a guy, who actually picked it out for me, because he happened to think of me. (Remember this is the guy who is in love with his online girlfriend he has never met.) It defies belief. (I don't know what the gift is, it could be anything, it is more the thought then what it is.) As for other guys, I posted somewhere I was getting together with a 23yr old on thursday night. We messed around, but didn't have full sex. I sent him a nice text on friday, and never heard anything back. The guy I had arranged to have 'just sex' with regularly is still MIA and I think he has done the fade. Some guy who is supposedly in Cambodia has been messaging me, despite the fact that I sent him a message brutally outlining exactly why I am the wrong girl, and he is making a mistake if he is considering me as anything more then a potential friend. All up, I recognise general patterns with men, but still can't understand what it is that makes one guy help me out and even give me gifts when he has no interest in anything more then friends, and guys who have no hope with me continuing their pursuit, and guys I actually will be intimate with, just have no interest in sticking around at all (i.e. they seem to have an overall low interest level). I watched a presentation the other day about how women are portrayed in advertising, and the subtle message put forth. And one of the messages were, that a woman should seem both sexy and innocent (naive, childlike, oblivious to her own sexiness), and it makes sense to me, as that was precisely what I was when I was younger, and I did get alot of unwanted attention. Anyway this was more to communicate that I haven't figured it all out yet, and my surprise at being bought a gift. Any ideas as to what triggers men to buy gifts for women, as opposed to when they don't buy gifts?
Author Titania22 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 BTW the topic was supposed to be called Still Confused about Men
fishtaco Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 The gift guy is just being a friend. He likes you as a friend. Women do that to men, and men misinterpret that as romantic interest, all the time. This sounds like just the gender is reversed. Have you treated a guy that you're only interested in platonic friendship nicely before? Same exact thing. 23 year old, not sure what's with that. But for me, unless sex is going to happen, don't mess around. So I would have bailed on you. We either keep it cool, and I'll respect your desire not to have sex, or we have sex. So that could be a possibility of why he disappeared. Booty call MIA guy, that's normal. FWBs and bed buddies are extremely unstable relationships. Don't be surprised if they just disappear. That's just how it is. If it went away without drama, count your lucky stars. Cambodian guy, some people think being persistent is the way to get a woman. And some women perpetuate that perception. In the woman's mind, they're thinking some romantic fiction where a man goes to hell and back just to earn her heart. In real life, that's just stalker behavior. Anyway, that's my take.
Author Titania22 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 Cool to know FishTaco. 23 year old, not sure what's with that. But for me, unless sex is going to happen, don't mess around. It only didn't happen, because he couldn't find his protection, and I forgot to bring some. So the messing around was supposed to lead somewhere. And he said he didn't mind if I slept over (which seems really unusual to me). I didn't because I had to get the kids off to school in the morning. Thanks for clearing the mystery. The friendship present thing makes sense, because I have girl friends who have been known to spontaneously buy me gifts, even clothes.
Gypsy_Soul Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Ha, I feel like this sometimes! I try not to complain though. I'm trying to stay positive about the whole dating thing. Good luck, sounds like you are having fun though. Hey Guys, More just a general Huh! about how men continue to make no sense.
fishtaco Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 It only didn't happen, because he couldn't find his protection, and I forgot to bring some. So the messing around was supposed to lead somewhere. And he said he didn't mind if I slept over (which seems really unusual to me). I didn't because I had to get the kids off to school in the morning. In that case, I'm not sure why he bailed. Maybe because he's only 23 years old. Sorry, but I'm older, in my late 30's. And from my perspective, kids that age flip flop all the time.
LittleTiger Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure how old you are Titania but I get the feeling you're at least 30? In which case, I'm curious what attracts you to such young men. In my eyes a 23yr old is just a boy (I actually thought that when I was 23 too ). As your previous thread with the video shows, they're still pretty confused about things at that age - and not just women - so it's not all that surprising you find them confusing too. Confused people are confusing. Giving gifts is just something people do for other people they like - it's a friendly gesture, nothing more. Any other confused messages you're getting, such as continuing to pursue you after a flat out 'no' is just down to inadequate social skills - something most men get better at as they get older. If you're being intimate straight away with guys who you think might be potential partners, or even just long term FWB, I recommend you stop giving them what they want up front. We're all looking for partners we consider 'high value' and people (all people) value things more highly if they have to put in some effort to get them. That doesn't mean you need to play games, it just means that if you want more than just sex, ie friendship or a relationship, a man needs to know you're not going to be giving it up to every guy who asks because that will probably make him think you're low value. Just make sure there is some emotional investment on his part before jumping in to bed - even if it's just that he likes spending time with you as a person (ie he values you for something other than your body). If you hand over the goods without a guy having to earn it (ie by getting to know you first) there's a good chance he'll view you as a one night stand rather than anything more. I'll probably get slammed for saying this but, honestly, men are pretty simple creatures really. There are a number of different types of course (and a many millions of individual variations) but basically they all want similar things. They also get less complicated as they get older. Unless you find you're really not attracted to mature men, maybe you could try dating guys over 30 (at least!) - I'm sure you'd find it much less confusing. Edited March 7, 2011 by LittleTiger
Author Titania22 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 I'm not sure how old you are Titania but I get the feeling you're at least 30? In which case, I'm curious what attracts you to such young men. I'm in my late 30's. I like that they're gorgeous, that they are so creative and grew up in this modern world where there are so many ways they can express it, that didn't exist when I was their age. I like that can be so smart in some respects, and yet still so socially awkward. I don't like how men over the age of 26 tend to be so acclimatised to the idea that to get a girl into bed, you have to push past their defences. I hate that. If I push you away it means I am not interested. Men who do that make me feel disempowered and dirty. Younger guys, generally being less confident, do seem to respect any boundaries I put up. This makes me feel more comfortable and empowered, I can then be more vunerable and open, knowing that if indeed I chose to say no at anytime that would be respected. All men I have meet during my life over the age of 26 have ignored my boundaries, not listened to my clear communication and have made me want nothing to do with men. In my eyes a 23yr old is just a boy (I actually thought that when I was 23 too ). As your previous thread with the video shows, they're still pretty confused about things at that age - and not just women - so it's not all that surprising you find them confusing too. Confused people are confusing. Yes I see what you mean, first hand. It is a definate challenge. If you're being intimate straight away with guys who you think might be potential partners, or even just long term FWB, I recommend you stop giving them what they want up front. We're all looking for partners we consider 'high value' and people (all people) value things more highly if they have to put in some effort to get them. That doesn't mean you need to play games, it just means that if you want more than just sex, ie friendship or a relationship, a man needs to know you're not going to be giving it up to every guy who asks because that will probably make him think you're low value. Just make sure there is some emotional investment on his part before jumping in to bed - even if it's just that he likes spending time with you as a person (ie he values you for something other than your body). If you hand over the goods without a guy having to earn it (ie by getting to know you first) there's a good chance he'll view you as a one night stand rather than anything more. I'll probably get slammed for saying this but, honestly, men are pretty simple creatures really. There are a number of different types of course (and a many millions of individual variations) but basically they all want similar things. They also get less complicated as they get older. Unless you find you're really not attracted to mature men, maybe you could try dating guys over 30 (at least!) - I'm sure you'd find it much less confusing. In term of the 23yr old, I have had my eye on him for about 6mths, and on the 1st of April he is leaving the country indefinately, possibly forever, so my window of opportunity was closing. Before we got together, he had communicated quite clearly that although he sees himself as someone who will travel forever, and therefore probably won't have a LTR, that when he does meet someone, he tends to enjoy whatever time he has with them, before one of them moves on. He gave me the feeling that even though he was leaving in a month, there was no reason why that month couldn't me enjoyed to the fullest. Oh well! I understand what you're saying, and I have been of a mind to pull back, and not be so quick to bed. That 23yr old however, was arranged before I made that decision, and I felt I should honour what I had lined up. I am not upset if that was it, because since the other w/e when I was all worked up, I have pulled right back, exercised less, and stopped masturbating as was suggested to me, so as to keep my labido under control. I haven't had any really sexually troubled days since then. As for the men who pursue even when I clearly communicate, they all tend to be over 26.
Cee Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 It sounds like you have a great thing going with your male friend. And perhaps you wish it were more, but friendship is a precious thing. Friends treat each other well and want nothing in return except company. My male friends and I exchange gifts because it's thoughtful and we care. It's not romantic in any way. As for the lovers who act interested and fade, I have not much wisdom. A lot of them are talk and not much else. I got the inside scoop from two guys who like casual sex and what they told me is not pretty. Their attitude is they will take what they can get and have sex with women they aren't that into in terms of looks and/or intelligence. And continue chasing the women they really like. Don't be blinded and chase men who focus on sleeping with you, but don't like phone calls and holding your hand in public. Courtship behavior looks a lot different from casual sex. I have no answers because my BF just appeared one day and asked me out. I was skeptical from past hurts, but he was true blue and treated me very well from our first date on. I am crazy about him and it was worth kissing the other frogs. Good luck and stay relaxed. You'll find someone.
EasyHeart Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 If you're being intimate straight away with guys who you think might be potential partners, or even just long term FWB, I recommend you stop giving them what they want up front. We're all looking for partners we consider 'high value' and people (all people) value things more highly if they have to put in some effort to get them. *** Just make sure there is some emotional investment on his part before jumping in to bed - even if it's just that he likes spending time with you as a person (ie he values you for something other than your body). If you hand over the goods without a guy having to earn it (ie by getting to know you first) there's a good chance he'll view you as a one night stand rather than anything more. This is excellent advice. You should listen to it. I'll probably get slammed for saying this but, honestly, men are pretty simple creatures really. There are a number of different types of course (and a many millions of individual variations) but basically they all want similar things. They also get less complicated as they get older. No argument from me. I tell every woman I'm interested in that I'm a 6 year old boy in a man's body. I don't like how men over the age of 26 tend to be so acclimatised to the idea that to get a girl into bed, you have to push past their defences. I hate that. If I push you away it means I am not interested. Men who do that make me feel disempowered and dirty. Younger guys, generally being less confident, do seem to respect any boundaries I put up. This makes me feel more comfortable and empowered, I can then be more vunerable and open, knowing that if indeed I chose to say no at anytime that would be respected. All men I have meet during my life over the age of 26 have ignored my boundaries, not listened to my clear communication and have made me want nothing to do with men. Wow. Besides the ridiculously broad generalization, this description is quite frightening from my perspective. It sounds more like a power struggle than a relationship. I suspect the real issue(s) you have has nothing to do with the men you're dating. Maybe a little time figuring out where this perspective comes from (and dealing with it) would make a huge difference in your dating life?
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Hi, Titania IMO, the friend who got you a present should not even be making an appearance in this thread. That guy, even though you made a try at having an intimate, sexual relationship with him, is now really and truly a friend and his gender doesn't need to come into play anymore, as far as the relationship between the two of you goes. Sounds like he is a good friend, too. Other guys: It's a conundrum. As I said before, I think lots of men are frightened when they encounter raw sexuality in women. They say it's a big turn-on. It very well might be, but that does not mean that they are comfortable with it or able to do anything with it. So, it turns out that having ones sexual needs met in a fulfilling way as well as in a safe and manageable way might be just about as complex and elusive as finding a "relationship," unless a woman is willing and able to pay for sexual services. That's not what I am suggesting! I'm also not suggesting that you temper your behavior to conform to what men, in general, are typically more comfortable with (being the pursuer, calling the shots, and that "type" that you described in your post of the sexy/innocent combo). What I am saying, though, is that it's probably not going to be any easier for you to find a regular, sexually fulfilling, NSA arrangement than it would be to find a real boyfriend. Sad, but I believe it's true. You might have better luck if you are ready to explore "alternative lifestyle" sexuality. You would find people who are not so confined to the "typical" gender roles.
Author Titania22 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 Wow. Besides the ridiculously broad generalization, this description is quite frightening from my perspective. It sounds more like a power struggle than a relationship. I suspect the real issue(s) you have has nothing to do with the men you're dating. Maybe a little time figuring out where this perspective comes from (and dealing with it) would make a huge difference in your dating life? I know exactly where this perspective comes from (a history of domineering males). And this bolded statement, is why the approaches of these older guys (and I said from 26, but they could be 56, i wasn't setting an upperlimit), disgust me so. It's like they think all women have low self esteem, and if you push far enough they will cave. I do communicate verbal clearly, I didn't use to and it is something I have been working on. Obviously my interractions with men have been improving with all this recent practice, but I was really thrown 2wks ago, when a guy friend ( a friendship that had been developing for 6mths) hit on me. (FYI a 45yr old recently divorced african american man) Over then past couple months, I continuously made it clear at the philosophy group in his company, that I am into young, skinny, geeky white boys. I also had made it clear that when any of my guy friends came onto me, it was grounds for immediate dismissal from the friendship and the social group. He knew that I had already dismissed such a guy, and that another stalker guy keeps lurking around the philosophy group. But I did obviously send out the wrong signals (I take full responsibility) and he must have thought he had a chance. It really shook me up, because I thought I was getting better at controlling where my (attraction) signal are being sent, I was feeling more comfortable, that guys around me knew that if I was interested I would make it clear in no uncertain terms, including making the moves. I was feeling more confident, and expressing my opinions more in the philosophy group and elsewhere more. When he hit on me, (not only was is disgusting, his moves did not mesh with me) it really made me question whether it is possible for me to be comfortable, confident and outspoken without giving some guys the green light. And it made me question, if it is worth fully stepping into myself, when undoubtedly their will be some misinterpretation, and I WILL have to deal with them as they arise (just as anyone would, man or woman, who decides to stand up and be noticed). So all up this past couple of weeks, has been me, trying to come to terms with whether I am ready and willing to step up and be all I can be in life, and straightforwardly deal with any consequences that arrive. (I don't know the answer, but I think I have to try anyway, and deal with the hiccups one at a time.) You might have better luck if you are ready to explore "alternative lifestyle" sexuality. You would find people who are not so confined to the "typical" gender roles. I am not sure what specifically you mean by alternative lifestyle in this instance, but I can agree, that I have little interest in a "typical" man or a "typical" way of being in the world. (Granted geeky guys are getting pretty "typical" these days.) I have no interest in conforming (what's the point of living in a way that so many people have already chosen to live). The original thread was more about being confused with my friend buying a gift, I get that it is because he is a friend now. So that's cool. I also am dying to know what the gift is. It does feel good to have 1 guy friend who seems legitimate.
phillyfan Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) I watched a presentation the other day about how women are portrayed in advertising, and the subtle message put forth. And one of the messages were, that a woman should seem both sexy and innocent (naive, childlike, oblivious to her own sexiness), and it makes sense to me, as that was precisely what I was when I was younger, and I did get alot of unwanted attention. Yea but ur problem rite now is nothin related to TV. It is related to common sense. Look at the basics; 1. u fool around with a 23yr old then he doesnt call. Is that really a suprise 2 u? 2. The dude who u had sex with jus wants friendship, is upfront n tells u that, and is then a consistent stand up friend. Where is the confusion? He picked somethin up 4 u cos he thought u needed it, hes a good friend, thats what friends do. 3. And the FWB is MIA - u rememba he is a FWB rite??! Dude just try to be more logical - if u want a long term guy, then - no FWB, no foolin round with young guys afta 5 mins (not judgin, just sayin), n no tryin to make a really simple situation complex n confusin (if he says he is a friend, looks like a friend n acts like a friend then hell, girl, he is a friend). Last point - some of ur posts make me feel like some dude really assaulted u in the past or abused u or somethin, is that true? The whole idea that older guys r gona push past ur point of comfort, that just aint true, there r so many that will respect n love u, but u seem to be basin everything on sex, and hittin up the ONS, the kids that dont want any more than sex etc - hell girl, u r lookin the wrong way in the wrong places if u ask me. Edited March 7, 2011 by phillyfan
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