Ambivalent boyfriend

March 6, 2011

Hello, all. I need some perspective on my situation; I hope you can help.

I am 31 and I've been with my boyfriend 15 months, through ups and downs. Lately we (mostly he) has been discussing engagement and things seemed fairly secure and certain. We had a rough patch for a few weeks back in November where we fought a lot. There were external strains; he was moving, I was moving, and both of us changed jobs. After that, he said we were on "probation" for two months because if we fought like this he couldn't stay in the relationship. I looked at my contribution to the fighting and stopped it, and since then we have been really close, and good, and strong. The two months were up some time ago and he told me he was ready to propose whenever I felt ready, and to start planning a wedding.

But a few weeks ago I (inadvertently) hurt his feelings. In a moment of anger, he sent me an e-mail saying although we loved each other, sometimes he thought we weren't compatible and that we should split. He then apologized very profusely and took it back. As far as I could tell he was sincere in retracting what he had said. Again he told me he was ready to propose.

Then last night again I felt something was funny. He wanted to go scuba diving and I said I would be scared to because I couldn't swim. He started telling me that part of a relationship is doing things you wouldn't do on your own, etc. and was a bit miffed at my saying I wasn't interested. This type of conversation is typical for us. He is a sensation-seeker; he likes motorbiking and flying and skydiving, and he is OK with living and travel in very bad conditions. I am a quiet introvert who likes to be at home reading a book.

Sometimes he begins sentences with "I would like you better if you were [thinner/nerdier/more passionate about your career/etc.]" and when I tell him it hurts my feelings when he says that, he doesn't understand why.

When he kept trying to convince me about the scuba, I told him that I wished he respected my feelings, and would stop trying to change me. I said that when he kept pushing me, I felt like he was telling me I was boring the way I was, and that he didn't like me and wished I were different. I said that when he kept saying "I would like you better if you were..." I felt unloved and as though he were unhappy, and as though he would rather be with someone else.

He told me that he had thought about that. He said I wasn't his ideal woman, and that it bothered him sometimes and he did wish I were different. But he also said that probably everyone thinking of marriage has some mixed feelings about their partner. That he considered leaving me after we fought in December, but that he felt that our problems were worth working through.

That he knows that nobody is his ideal woman, and that each of his past relationships has ended (regardless of who ended them) over stupid things that weren't that big a deal, and that he had sworn he would not do that this time. He said he was very self-critical and judgmental and therefore that he was judgmental about the people in his life also. He said his striving for the ideal woman was hard to stop, because striving to achieve his dreams had pulled him out of a paralyzing depression a long time ago. He said he wished he weren't so much that way and that it was a major character flaw of his.

I asked him if he felt like he were settling for me, and he said sometimes yes, he did feel that way. I told him I felt like I deserved better than that, and he said yes I did. I said some things that made it sound as though I was pulling away and might want to take a break or eventually to break up. He told me that he was not sure what was best for both of us, but that I should do what was best for me.

I asked him why, if he felt he was settling, he wanted to get married. He answered that I would not like the answer, but that part of it was that he had reached the right time in his life to be married, and he really felt that if we got married, we had enough in common to make it work. And that he did love me, and that although he wished I were different, he would still love me even if I never left the house, and weighed four million pounds.

I asked him what he would do if our roles were reversed, and I had said these things to him. He said "I would put my partner on probation for a few months, and then I would tell my partner that things didn't look so good for us."

I asked him why he would go from sounding certain about being engaged to ambivalent and lukewarm in the same conversation. He said he was holding two sets of feelings at the same time. I said I felt jerked around when in the morning he would talk about getting married and in the evening, this. He said I was correct to feel jerked around, and that he felt terrible about doing it. He said that we should maybe take a few months and see where the relationship went, and decide one way or the other soon.

I asked him why he had said all these things to me in this way. He said he was not a good liar and couldn't help telling the truth about his feelings, and that it seemed I had already picked up on his ambivalence without his saying anything.

This was last night.

I don't know what to do.

Why don't I want to break up? I guess because of this: I understand his feelings. I feel ambivalent about him too, and about everyone I've ever dated. Nobody is a perfect match, and I am not looking for perfection...I feel like if you are reasonably compatible (as I think even he feels we are) love makes up the rest. I haven't told him all the ways in which he falls short of my ideal, because what would it accomplish to either focus on those, or verbalize them? But honestly I have the same thoughts he does, and I'm sure I would have them about any man.

I confess that about marriage, I also feel the way he feels, a bit. I'm in my thirties, and I am tired of relationships breaking for no reason, and ours has been quite decent. Why walk away after 15 months because he is not my ideal?

He loved me so much back when we met, to the point of being clingy. Even now when I am with him he is affectionate and caring. He says he still wants to marry me. It's hard to reconcile the man who says he loves me, and made so much effort to live near me with the man who treats me like I disappoint him.

I am sorry this is muddled. My thoughts are muddled.

Please help me. My intuition says that I should pull back some and give him some space for a while.

He said he would call tonight or tomorrow. I don't know what to say, or how to act, when he calls.

Edited March 6, 2011 by moontiger

March 6, 2011

I wish I could have something more positive to say, but there are some things that really concern me:

1) He repeatedly makes "I'd like you better if..." statements.

2) If you said these things to him he'd "put [you] on probation"?!

3) He won't accept that you have different interests. While it's important that a couple do things together, they don't have to do everything together. (As for scuba diving, many divers have spouses who don't dive.)

I think the 1st is most worrisome -- it's one thing to have put up with this for about 15 months, but what about 15 years or more? Can you do it? If both of you think he is settling, how is that not going to build into resentment for both of you over the length of a marriage?

I'm not saying your relationship is doomed, but there are some issues here that really do need to be addressed before you tie the knot. If you two are serious enough to consider marriage, have you looked into couples or premarital counseling?

March 6, 2011

I wish I could have something more positive to say, but there are some things that really concern me:

1) He repeatedly makes "I'd like you better if..." statements.
2) If you said these things to him he'd "put [you] on probation"?!
3) He won't accept that you have different interests. While it's important that a couple do things together, they don't have to do everything together. (As for scuba diving, many divers have spouses who don't dive.)

I think the 1st is most worrisome -- it's one thing to have put up with this for about 15 months, but what about 15 years or more? Can you do it? If both of you think he is settling, how is that not going to build into resentment for both of you over the length of a marriage?

I'm not saying your relationship is doomed, but there are some issues here that really do need to be addressed before you tie the knot. If you two are serious enough to consider marriage, have you looked into couples or premarital counseling?

Thank you, nomagicbullet. I have thought of couples counseling. But part of me says if you need counseling before you are even engaged, maybe it is just not a fit? I may bring it up to him.

I don't know whether or not I resent that he feels like he is settling...the reason being that everyone settles to some extent in choosing a partner, and I would include myself if I stopped to think about it. I am a lot more educated than him, I earn a lot more, etc. He doesn't work a normal job; he has a crazy shift schedule where the shift times change. He is caring but (as you can see) not necessarily tactful or sensitive. If I focused on the negative aspects, all of these things would be big negatives for me.

Whether he would come to resent that I was not his ideal woman, I don't know. He could leave, and yet stays with me. (Assuming that when he next calls, he does not dump me, that is.)

I feel sad that things have come to this.

Edited March 6, 2011 by moontiger

March 6, 2011

Let me tell you what my experience with this has been.

I dated someone for 3 years. And while I absolutely loved the companionship...I knew deep down that there was something "missing" I guess. I loved him...sure...a LOT...but I guess like you I was "ambivalent." I didn't feel any passion.

And he also wished I was different in certain ways. At first I thought he was right...and I worked on myself. But eventually always hearing what I was doing wrong took a bit toll on my self esteem and self worth. I started resenting him. And yes I did have doubts about him too...but there is only so much "you aren't good enough" you can take...even if the feeling is mutual.

I ended the relationship...and it was SO hard. But honestly...I have never been happier since getting out of it. And while I still miss the companionship and dating since has been annoying...I know that I need that passion and spark for a person. Just my opinion though.

I think you need to think about whether or not you can live the rest of your life with him. Do you think that his "wishing you were different" will eventually lead you to resent him? Do you think that you will one day wonder "what if?"

March 6, 2011

"Reasonably compatible" never works out, you know. Not in the end. If he's wishing you are different or you're wishing he's different, than it won't work. You aren't satisfied with each other and eventually, that dissatisfied feeling over a few more years, will wear away at what you have. It's not even been a year and a half yet and he's unsure; it's not the type of relationship that can stand the test of time.

I suppose you just have to ask yourself, would you rather be alone with the chance of finding someone who totally loves you and only wants you or do you want to settle and know everyday the man you are looking in the face wishes you were different?

March 6, 2011

"Reasonably compatible" never works out, you know. Not in the end. If he's wishing you are different or you're wishing he's different, than it won't work. You aren't satisfied with each other and eventually, that dissatisfied feeling over a few more years, will wear away at what you have. It's not even been a year and a half yet and he's unsure; it's not the type of relationship that can stand the test of time.

I suppose you just have to ask yourself, would you rather be alone with the chance of finding someone who totally loves you and only wants you or do you want to settle and know everyday the man you are looking in the face wishes you were different?

Thank you heartshaped. I guess my question is this...we all begin in our head with an ideal of what we'd like to have. But in real life, no man lives up to that ideal. I think that to some extent everyone wishes their partner were different and more like themselves; maybe he leaves the toilet seat up or maybe he's a bit of a slob, or whatever. I feel like not all of those things are dealbreakers; some are just natural.

Suppose you get 70% of what you want. I would think that that person's love, and being committed to you, made up for the rest?

I guess...I went through a phase where I felt like he does, and I got over it. I decided to focus on the good aspects of the relationship, and not the negative ones. If he could do that for me too, I would want to stay with him. If not...

I feel so scared. I am in my thirties and have been hurt so many times. It is so hard and scary to think of letting go what is safe and comfortable for...what? He is a very good man in many ways, and I do love him and believe he loves me. Otherwise I would not be so confused.

I still haven't heard from him. He said he'd call yesterday or today. I made up my mind I was going to let him call. I feel like I'm on eggshells; when he does call, I could treat him with love and forgiveness, and he would treat me back with love. Or I could say I wanted to end things and he will reflect that as well. I'm anxious and haven't slept well since our conversation Friday night.

Maybe that feeling of eggshells is a sign that this relationship is past its expiration date. Or maybe he will just call and end things regardless of what I say.

I haven't sent him my usual slew of "I love you" e-mails. I haven't been in touch at all.

Maybe I was a brat; maybe I shouldn't have asked him those questions; maybe I shouldn't have asked him to be honest and then been upset when he was. Maybe I should have just said "well, I am scared to Scuba dive but I'd be happy to watch you" or something. Maybe I destroyed our relationship.

I feel so scared. Again I am sorry this is muddled. My thoughts are very muddled.

Thanks for all the support.

March 6, 2011

Let me tell you what my experience with this has been.

I dated someone for 3 years. And while I absolutely loved the companionship...I knew deep down that there was something "missing" I guess. I loved him...sure...a LOT...but I guess like you I was "ambivalent." I didn't feel any passion.

And he also wished I was different in certain ways. At first I thought he was right...and I worked on myself. But eventually always hearing what I was doing wrong took a bit toll on my self esteem and self worth. I started resenting him. And yes I did have doubts about him too...but there is only so much "you aren't good enough" you can take...even if the feeling is mutual.

I ended the relationship...and it was SO hard. But honestly...I have never been happier since getting out of it. And while I still miss the companionship and dating since has been annoying...I know that I need that passion and spark for a person. Just my opinion though.

I think you need to think about whether or not you can live the rest of your life with him. Do you think that his "wishing you were different" will eventually lead you to resent him? Do you think that you will one day wonder "what if?"

Thank you SingVoice. I will explain that I am Indian-American, so I come from a culture of arranged marriage, where "love" is more of a verb than a noun, and passion and sparks and chemistry are things you build. I feel like passion burns out quickly, and what is left behind--peace and acceptance of one another--is real love.

I think I can accept him the way he is, if he can accept me.

March 6, 2011

I don't think it's anything you said, OP. It's better you know now than later. Honestly, no, no one gets their "ideal" exactly, but I do think that most people meet someone that they don't wish were any different. It's not the fact that you aren't his ideal woman, it's the fact that he wants you to be different, and he is actively trying to make you "improve" to be what he wants you to do. When he says things like I wish you were more XXX, what he means is you need to work on XXX.

The bottom line is the two of you aren't compatible, but because neither of you want to be alone you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It takes more than love to make a lifetime commitment work. It's a sad fact of life.

March 6, 2011

This guy sounds suspiciously like a real a****** I hitched my wagon to for a brief period a few years ago. Long story short, I was shocked to see how much this man loved to chip away at my self esteem. He was condescending in ways I never thought possible, not to mention he was dead wrong about everything he did or said. The expression you said that gave me pause was "if you were nerdier", because that's exactly what he would say to me. He ridiculed me left, right and sideways. I saw the future (if there was one more than the whole 6 weeks I was with him) - Nothing I did or said would be good enough for him, or anyone else for that matter. You will be trying to be the peacemaker and make him as happy as possible, but there is nothing you can do or say to make someone like this happy.

It can and will hurt you quite a bit as you have had a history with him, but I say you should leave as soon as possible. He will continue to tell you what's wrong with you, and may find out other things once you are living together under the same roof (if you're not already). This is abuse, pure and simple.

March 6, 2011

You will be trying to be the peacemaker and make him as happy as possible, but there is nothing you can do or say to make someone like this happy.

*nod* Thank you for the insightful comment. I am afraid that may be true. People who are fundamentally unhappy with themselves before they enter a relationship are not going to be happy in the relationship, either. He had a very difficult childhood (was abandoned by his father, and then his mom divorced again) and he is not a happy, laid-back man. He is extremely critical of himself, and of others.

The funny thing about the "if you were nerdier..." is that I used to be a college professor. I left my job and changed careers because my job was sucking out my life, and because I wanted to move closer to family. BF feels now that I am insufficiently passionate about my new career, and he is also an armchair enthusiast of the field I left, which makes matters worse.

If this sort of criticism were constant, I would have left long ago. It doesn't come out very often, though; maybe once every month or two. When it does, he is often very apologetic afterward.

I am thinking hard about what to do. Most friends and family have advised me to leave, but it is hard because they are not objective.

I feel very worried that I am only presenting one side of the story here. He has been very loving and done a lot for me. It is in the last month or two that his interest level seems to have gone down, and he has started being more critical. He still says he loves me, appreciates me, and respects me and ends every conversation (including this one) with "I love you."

Feelings ebb and flow. It's hard for me to tell whether we are going through a phase or this is really what he is.

I'm not so catastrophic as to think I will never meet someone else. But I guess my feeling based on my last few relationships is that I am going to leave, and then the next guy is going to have some other incompatibility just as big.

Rock, hard place, like that.

March 6, 2011

I don't think it's anything you said, OP. It's better you know now than later. Honestly, no, no one gets their "ideal" exactly, but I do think that most people meet someone that they don't wish were any different. It's not the fact that you aren't his ideal woman, it's the fact that he wants you to be different, and he is actively trying to make you "improve" to be what he wants you to do. When he says things like I wish you were more XXX, what he means is you need to work on XXX.

The bottom line is the two of you aren't compatible, but because neither of you want to be alone you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It takes more than love to make a lifetime commitment work. It's a sad fact of life.

Thanks, heartshaped. Yes, you are right. We all want our partners to be different, but there is a difference between encouraging vs. prodding and making your love conditional on it.

If he wants to be a perfectionist, he should direct his perfectionism toward striving for the ideal relationship (where his woman feels happy and loved) and not the ideal woman, who doesn't exist.

*sigh* Everyone with me seems to be the square peg. It's so hard for me to accept that if you line up on your basic values, and if you enjoy each others' company, and if you both love each other and care for each other and try very hard to make a relationship work, it still may not.

His good qualities, right now, seem as though they would be irreplaceable.

He still hasn't called. My stomach is in knots and I feel sick.

I wonder how am I going to make it through work tomorrow...

March 6, 2011

*sigh* Everyone with me seems to be the square peg. It's so hard for me to accept that if you line up on your basic values, and if you enjoy each others' company, and if you both love each other and care for each other and try very hard to make a relationship work, it still may not.

I think that's hard for everyone to accept. If there was some specific formula to follow to make a relationship work, I think we'd all follow it, but truthfully, relationships take so much more than what can even be expressed into words to work.

I think you should try to look at your situation as if you weren't in it, but as if it was the situation of a friend, what would you tell them to do?

I am so sorry you are going through this though. I know what it's like to love someone, but to realize that maybe that isn't enough.

March 7, 2011

I think you should try to look at your situation as if you weren't in it, but as if it was the situation of a friend, what would you tell them to do?

I would say that her boyfriend had begun to take her too much for granted.

That she should pull back, and let him see what his life was like without her, and that in the meantime she should forget him and focus on her own happiness. That maybe he would have a change of heart, and maybe he wouldn't. Either way, she'd be okay.

Thanks for your company and support, heartshaped.

March 7, 2011

Sorry, OP, but are you looking for reasons to justify staying with him? I'm sensing that you're doing the " I'm settling" dance simply because you're afraid of heartbreaks due to prior breakups with exes.

March 7, 2011

I would say that her boyfriend had begun to take her too much for granted.

That she should pull back, and let him see what his life was like without her, and that in the meantime she should forget him and focus on her own happiness. That maybe he would have a change of heart, and maybe he wouldn't. Either way, she'd be okay.

Thanks for your company and support, heartshaped.

I think that's exactly what you should do. It will be alright either way, OP.

March 7, 2011

Sorry, OP, but are you looking for reasons to justify staying with him? I'm sensing that you're doing the " I'm settling" dance simply because you're afraid of heartbreaks due to prior breakups with exes.

xpapercutx, I am curious what you see that makes it so clear to you that I should end the relationship? Because I feel like I can argue either way. Sometimes things are obvious to outsiders that aren't obvious to me.

I thought about what you wrote. I won't say I am afraid of heartbreak; I have been through the worst of the worst...a breakup after a six year relationship in my 20s--after that, nothing I have been through has been that bad. I am presently surrounded by friends and family to cushion the blow, and I also have all of you. I feel the courage to end things if necessary.

I am however afraid of throwing away a fundamentally good man, in search of something that may or may not exist. This is a decision that will potentially affect the rest of my life, and I therefore hesitate. I wonder whether it is really worth leaving when the man I am with is a good man. Whether his present lack of interest is a phase, or whether it is who he is.

So I guess I am trying to understand when it is better to re-decorate your house--versus when to light a match, burn it down, and start again. The last, to me, seems a last resort. I did it with my career last year, so I am willing to do it. But I guess I want to feel sure that it is necessary, first.

"Settling" is a non-issue to me in that I do not, and have never expected a husband to be BFF, soulmate, confidant, and love god all rolled up in a package that looks like Brad Pitt.

All I really want is a good man who is committed to me, and loves me the way I am.

Except right now I don't feel I have that last part--and what changed everything was just one phone conversation I had with him when he was tired and sitting in his car far from home. I want to blame what he says on the circumstances; I can say garbage when I am tired as well. But I'm afraid he did mean it.

Funny how life and relationships can do a 180 in just one conversation.

Edited March 7, 2011 by moontiger

March 7, 2011

After our conversation, he said he'd call this weekend.

It's now 9:18 p.m. on Sunday. I've heard nothing.

The anxiety is overwhelming. I've been on edge all weekend.

I feel so lost and so alone.

March 7, 2011

xpapercutx, I am curious what you see that makes it so clear to you that I should end the relationship? Because I feel like I can argue either way. Sometimes things are obvious to outsiders that aren't obvious to me.

I thought about what you wrote. I won't say I am afraid of heartbreak; I have been through the worst of the worst...a breakup after a six year relationship in my 20s--after that, nothing I have been through has been that bad. I am presently surrounded by friends and family to cushion the blow, and I also have all of you. I feel the courage to end things if necessary.

I am however afraid of throwing away a fundamentally good man, in search of something that may or may not exist. This is a decision that will potentially affect the rest of my life, and I therefore hesitate. I wonder whether it is really worth leaving when the man I am with is a good man. Whether his present lack of interest is a phase, or whether it is who he is.

So I guess I am trying to understand when it is better to re-decorate your house--versus when to light a match, burn it down, and start again. The last, to me, seems a last resort. I did it with my career last year, so I am willing to do it. But I guess I want to feel sure that it is necessary, first.

"Settling" is a non-issue to me in that I do not, and have never expected a husband to be BFF, soulmate, confidant, and love god all rolled up in a package that looks like Brad Pitt.

All I really want is a good man who is committed to me, and loves me the way I am.

Except right now I don't feel I have that last part--and what changed everything was just one phone conversation I had with him when he was tired and sitting in his car far from home. I want to blame what he says on the circumstances; I can say garbage when I am tired as well. But I'm afraid he did mean it.

Funny how life and relationships can do a 180 in just one conversation.

This

Maybe that feeling of eggshells is a sign that this relationship is past its expiration date

The only times I've ever walked on eggshells was when there was tension in the household or when I'd done something extremely bad and I was afraid of getting caught. It's certainly not a feeling I would associate with a relationship because I don't think a relationship requires me to constantly keep the other person happy even at the risk of being unhappy myself.

I will tell you however, I was recently in your position, but instead of a 15 months courtship I dated a guy for at most a month and a half. The red flags reared their ugly heads when he started commenting on my hair ( which was dyed a color he disliked) and on my makeup ( which according to him, weren't drawn on " correctly"). Then he started commenting on the way I dressed and being condescending on certain opinions of mine that contradicted his own. I felt suffocated yet I was persistent there was chemistry even at the expense that I would have to suffer criticisms from someone I hardly knew that well. And then, he dumped me when he found someone " better".

The whole experience made me rediscover my self-worth.

March 7, 2011

The only times I've ever walked on eggshells was when there was tension in the household or when I'd done something extremely bad and I was afraid of getting caught. It's certainly not a feeling I would associate with a relationship because I don't think a relationship requires me to constantly keep the other person happy even at the risk of being unhappy myself.

I will tell you however, I was recently in your position, but instead of a 15 months courtship I dated a guy for at most a month and a half. The red flags reared their ugly heads when he started commenting on my hair ( which was dyed a color he disliked) and on my makeup ( which according to him, weren't drawn on " correctly"). Then he started commenting on the way I dressed and being condescending on certain opinions of mine that contradicted his own. I felt suffocated yet I was persistent there was chemistry even at the expense that I would have to suffer criticisms from someone I hardly knew that well. And then, he dumped me when he found someone " better".

The whole experience made me rediscover my self-worth.

*nod* I see. I'd leave immediately and have left when someone started picking on me that early, and there wasn't that much history there. If he hadn't routinely driven five hours to see me, then moved for me, then offered marriage. If he didn't tell me so often that he loved me.

The criticism started very late...around Christmas. It was as though until then he was afraid I would leave, so he kept his opinions to himself. I had no plans to leave him; it was in his head.

But we fought over the holidays, and then suddenly he threatened to leave me. I found myself in the position of the one who wanted to make *him* happy. I listened to him while he vented, and tried to make peace. He complained that he felt unloved, so I lavished him with affection. I listened to him complain about everything that made him unhappy.

Unfortunately I guess I tried too hard to fix things; he took the opportunity to make a doormat of me. It was as though he loved the chase, and when I started to show I loved him, he stopped caring. I told him that, and he said it was not the case--had I not started acting like I cared more, he would have left.

Over the last few weeks, he has simultaneously discussed marriage and cooled off toward me. He doesn't call as often, isn't as available to talk, doesn't seem as excited to see me, and now this.

10:07. No phone tonight. Unless he calls and apologizes profusely for the things he said, I can't imagine how I can stay with him. (Or can I?)

He may simply call and dump me. I am emotionally preparing for a breakup.

How I wish I had a crystal ball and I could see where my life will be in five years. Sometimes I feel so scared.

Edited March 7, 2011 by moontiger

March 7, 2011

*nod* I see. I'd leave immediately and have left when someone started picking on me that early, and there wasn't that much history there. If he hadn't routinely driven five hours to see me, then moved for me, then offered marriage. If he didn't tell me so often that he loved me.

The criticism started very late...around Christmas. It was as though until then he was afraid I would leave, so he kept his opinions to himself. I had no plans to leave him; it was in his head.

But we fought over the holidays, and then suddenly he threatened to leave me. I found myself in the position of the one who wanted to make *him* happy. I listened to him while he vented, and tried to make peace. He complained that he felt unloved, so I lavished him with affection. I listened to him complain about everything that made him unhappy.

Unfortunately I guess I tried too hard to fix things; he took the opportunity to make a doormat of me. It was as though he loved the chase, and when I started to show I loved him, he stopped caring. I told him that, and he said it was not the case--had I not started acting like I cared more, he would have left.

Over the last few weeks, he has simultaneously discussed marriage and cooled off toward me. He doesn't call as often, isn't as available to talk, doesn't seem as excited to see me, and now this.

10:07. No phone tonight. Unless he calls and apologizes profusely for the things he said, I can't imagine how I can stay with him.

He may simply call and dump me. I am emotionally preparing for a breakup.

How I wish I had a crystal ball and I could see where my life will be in five years. Sometimes I feel so scared.

Noted. The time and history the two of you have together makes it harder to cut ties but things are simply not working in your favor if he refuses to acknowledge his faults and correcting them. The one thing I would call him out on is why he felt the need to threaten you. I find it offensive he had to use marriage as a leverage if not a bargaining chip. A relationship is not about control.

March 7, 2011

Noted. The time and history the two of you have together makes it harder to cut ties but things are simply not working in your favor if he refuses to acknowledge his faults and correcting them. The one thing I would call him out on is why he felt the need to threaten you. I find it offensive he had to use marriage as a leverage if not a bargaining chip. A relationship is not about control.

I agree and I don't think you should ever threaten a breakup as leverage.

I say that, and yet I mentioned the possibility of breaking up with him after he said this bit about settling. But I mentioned it because what he said to me was so hurtful to me and seemed so unacceptable, that I really did feel that I was willing to leave over it.

He did blame his finding fault with me on his own tendency to be judgmental, and critical. He went so far as to say that it is his personal demon. He said he would try to correct it and see the good in me, but that he wasn't sure he'd be able to.

Thank you for your very insightful comments. I feel a little less alone.

Edited March 7, 2011 by moontiger

March 7, 2011

How I wish I had a crystal ball and I could see where my life will be in five years. Sometimes I feel so scared.

Don't be afraid moontiger. Even if things don't work out with this man, it doesn't mean you have to spend the rest of your life alone or that your life won't work out the way you want it to. Don't let fear or love cloud your judgment. He's said some things now that you need to know if they are the truth or not (i.e. feeling you are incompatible) and at the very least, he needs to apologize for criticizing you and stop that behavior. I don't think you should call him if he doesn't call you. Things are in his court since he is the one that feels this way.

March 7, 2011

Even though I find that what he said to you was hurtful to you, I find it impressive how honest and forthright he was to you. That particular trait I think does bode well for your future with him should you two stick it out.

I have been converted into believing that there is someone out there for everyone that is a good fit and you shouldn't have to settle. Not that there is anyone out there that is perfect but the incompatible traits and habits shouldn't be any that are high on your list of importance. If any of these incompatible traits are intolerable to you, you should be able to work together to come to some kind of compromise for them to be tolerable.

You both seem to have some doubts as to your compatibility and although what he shared with you did hurt your feelings, there are the same kind of thoughts running through your head so I'm not sure I would feel this was a deal breaker conversation for me.

What would concern me about this guy is how judgmental he's turning out to be as well as not accepting (trying to push you to do things you don't want to). I think these two traits will just cause more and more discord between you and working out any future issues will be especially difficult.

By settling you may be setting yourself up to be a divorce statistic.

March 7, 2011

Sorry to have been away from this thread. I agree with a lot of what people have been posting. It does seem as if both of you have doubts. Again, I recommend couples couseling, because it seems like both of you would like to make this realtionship work, but are not sure if you should.

I know you said you look at the counseling as something to do if you have a problem. I guess counseling does tend to have a stigma attached to it, but for couples considering marriage, this doesn't have to be the case. A couple can have a strong relationship but go to counseling to make sure both parties are going into the marriage with realistic expectations and understand how they are going to deal with certain problems when they arise. Making sure they are on the same page, so to speak, and increase the odds of a successful marriage. Sometimes churches and religious organizations offer -- or even require -- some kind of premarital counseling or classes for this reason. I'm sure non-religious counseling options are available. It can be a good thing regardless of whether your relationship has problems or not -- and honestly, it sounds like there are issues that sorely need to be addressed in your relationship.

If your boyfriend won't go with you (and I think it would be a bad sign if he wouldn't), talking about some of these things individually with a counselor might be a good thing. We try our best here on LS, but most people here aren't trained professionals, and we don't know your whole story.

I really don't feel good about some of the things he's said and the way he's treated you, but I haven't heard his side of it, and he does apologize, knowing he has a problem. Both of you don't appear to be ready to give up yet (not sure about current lack of communication), but it also seems like you're both in it for the security of a relationship, not because this relationship is necessarily beneficial or rewarding. But I could be wrong.

March 10, 2011

Hello all. I wanted to update you and to thank you for your help. I did not phone BF, as hard as it was--after his saying he was settling for me and uncertain, I felt the ball was in his court. If he wanted me, he would have to seek me out and take his words back. I had been too affectionate and too available for the last few months, and he had started to take me for granted.

Anyway, BF phoned Monday night (he had been out of town) and told me he had been an absolute wreck all weekend after we spoke. That he had spoken to his family (who all told him he was behaving like a jerk), and that he went to his brother's b-day party and was too much of a wreck to even go downstairs. He thanked me for putting up with his being a jerk, and trying to turn me into a miniature version of himself. He told me I am a wonderful woman and that he loved me the way I was, and that after a year of my saying it, he finally understood the destruction that happens when you make your love conditional. He told me he was dumb about the scuba diving, and that he would be completely happy if I read a book and watched him dive or something.

And the same guy who told me he was settling for me put his hat in his hand and thanked me for tolerating him, and asked me please not to leave him.

Anyway, it's a start. The fact that he can admit his fault so completely and humbly is an admirable thing. So...I don't know. The question is whether he meant what he said or whether this will keep happening. As Enya sings,

Who can say where the road goes,

Where the day flows?

Only time...

Thank you to lenny and nomagicbullet for the above advice. I bet BF and I could benefit from premarital counseling (he is not the sort to say no). Maybe deep down I've just felt scared that it might cause even more of a rift somehow. But if it brings out some irreconciliable difference, maybe that is for the best.

As to "settling," I think what you are seeing may be a cultural difference; I grew up in a culture of arranged marriage. In my family, the norm has been that you pick someone whose basic values match your own, and then you treat "love" like a verb and build it, as opposed to expecting sparks and passion and chemistry to fly from the beginning. So (for better or worse) that attitude has heavily influenced my attitudes on love and marriage.

In my 20s, I was immature...I demanded a partner satisfy a long checklist of criteria. That resulted in my choosing men who had a lot of checks--they were handsome and brilliant and now and then they were in Wikipedia, but they were not good for me.

Now I am in my 30s. And when I look for a partner, I don't look for "passion" and "chemistry" or a blast of hormones, because those things die down. I believe that if you find a good man who is a basic match for you on life values, the rest of "love" is how the two of you treat each other.

Overall, BF makes me far more happy than unhappy. He has his flaws but he is honest to a fault, he is caring, and he is romantic and devoted and committed. That is why I am with him.

Edited March 10, 2011 by moontiger

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