Silly_Girl Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 I don't know what a rOW is and I don't care. You are sleeping with a married man so do not deserve empathy or compassion. I wouldn't call you the names that most people might, compassion is asking too much. If a gal or guy like me was lied to, and leaves when they find out, I feel bad for them. I don't feel bad for people who go into it with their eyes wide open. You are arrogant to expect compassion, IMHO. Arrogance seems a common denominator in people who cheat, so I see why you think that way. You're here for sport.
woinlove Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 You're here for sport. How so? His pain over being duped by a lying MW seems as real as the pain expressed from others posting their story. And his reaction seems understandable, even if still a bit raw. For someone who was duped into playing the role of OW/OM, it may be difficult to understand that some people choose that path knowingly. Or did I miss something in his posts? Possible, since I tend to take these things on face value.
anne1707 Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Awesome Tami...labels, or "titles" help us define where we stand and what we think. A quick description to personality basically cutting to the chase...no big deal really. I am confused Pure. You seem to be supporting Tami's post and also supporting the use of labels but Tami's point was that labels lead to prejudice, are not good at explaining the complexity of human nature and make it too easy to dismiss others. So which is it?
Viscious Vendetta Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 So are you...also the "humble" IMO doesn't fit. I expect very little from cheaters.
Viscious Vendetta Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 You're here for sport.No I'm nothing like you. I came here to see if there was anyone here like me, that had been tricked into being an OM by a liar who said they were single. All's I see are mean people who get off on hurting other people, pat each other on the back for it and get mad if someone disagrees. I don't need to empathize with you for that.
tami-chan Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 How so? His pain over being duped by a lying MW seems as real as the pain expressed from others posting their story. And his reaction seems understandable, even if still a bit raw. For someone who was duped into playing the role of OW/OM, it may be difficult to understand that some people choose that path knowingly. Or did I miss something in his posts? Possible, since I tend to take these things on face value. I do not know VV story but from what I have read from this thread alone he is not here to give support ..he is here seeking support from people who went through or are going through the same experience as he did. That is established, right? I came here to see if there was anyone here like me So when he posts on threads that do not serve his purpose on this forum it is more likely (again, there is a chance I could be wrong) that it is not coming from a good place. So why then post? ahhhh...yes, because it is a public forum . Or maybe because he is just lashing out, ok...if he is, then is he is....let's not obscure it by saying that "maybe somebody will take heed and learn a lesson"..he is JUST lashing out, because he is in pain-that's it. He does not care, he said so himself. It kinda gives you a tiny peek on why he got duped in the first place. Just my humble opinion.
tami-chan Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 I am confused Pure. You seem to be supporting Tami's post and also supporting the use of labels but Tami's point was that labels lead to prejudice, are not good at explaining the complexity of human nature and make it too easy to dismiss others. So which is it? Actually,anne1707-stereotypes, bias, prejudice or "profiling" serve a purpose, too. When one is in a medium where one is unwilling or unable to make the necessary investments to get to know somebody, it saves them the unnecessary b*llsh*t of trying to understand where the person is coming from. It is not ideal but it is what it is. BTW, bias, prejudice, stereotyping or "profiling" is not exclusive to anyone, or any one group. Everybody does it. If someone says she/he doesn't , I am sorry that is just dishonest. JMHO.
anne1707 Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Actually,anne1707-stereotypes, bias, prejudice or "profiling" serve a purpose, too. When one is in a medium where one is unwilling or unable to make the necessary investments to get to know somebody, it saves them the unnecessary b*llsh*t of trying to understand where the person is coming from. It is not ideal but it is what it is. It's a purpose true but as you have also said, it is not ideal so we should try to avoid it where we can BTW, bias, prejudice, stereotyping or "profiling" is not exclusive to anyone, or any one group. Everybody does it. If someone says she/he doesn't , I am sorry that is just dishonest. JMHO. And I have not said that I do not judge, have prejudice etc - and would never believe that someone is incapable of the bias etc you describe. To an extent, stereotyping is a neccessary evil and we all have to do it to cope with the overload of information we face in life. However I don't think it needs to be openly extended into the categorisation of viewpoints on LS. We all as individuals have our preferred posters and also those who will just wind us up as soon as we see their name but do we need really need to openly label? I don't think so.
Silly_Girl Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 No I'm nothing like you. I came here to see if there was anyone here like me, that had been tricked into being an OM by a liar who said they were single. All's I see are mean people who get off on hurting other people, pat each other on the back for it and get mad if someone disagrees. I don't need to empathize with you for that. You've not been where I am so I'm not expecting any empathy from you.
tami-chan Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 It's a purpose true but as you have also said, it is not ideal so we should try to avoid it where we can I agree. And I have not said that I do not judge, have prejudice etc - and would never believe that someone is incapable of the bias etc you describe.'Didn't say you did. It was a general statement. To an extent, stereotyping is a neccessary evil and we all have to do it to cope with the overload of information we face in life.I agree. However I don't think it needs to be openly extended into the categorisation of viewpoints on LS. We all as individuals have our preferred posters and also those who will just wind us up as soon as we see their name but do we need really need to openly label? I don't think so.Well, you might not think so..but when a newbie comes and is shocked/bewildered to discover that the place that is supposedly for support is not only a place for support..but a "free for all"..sometimes some people deem it is necessary to "let them in on" who is whom. Of course, it is bias..it is up to the newbie to decide for herself/himself to take anybody's word for anything.
BB07 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Well, you might not think so..but when a newbie comes and is shocked/bewildered to discover that the place that is supposedly for support is not only a place for support..but a "free for all"..sometimes some people deem it is necessary to "let them in on" who is whom. Of course, it is bias..it is up to the newbie to decide for herself/himself to take anybody's word for anything. I've seen that happen (bolded) a lot lately and I find that really sad. Of course they can't come out and name names so saying things like that serves no purpose other than to just generally give a new poster a incredible amount of distrust for any advice given. I would go so far as to say it's one of the crappiest things I've seen done here. (bold) As my friend WWIU says........focus on the advice and less on the infighting and friction and let the poster decide what they can use.
whichwayisup Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 According to my understanding, BB doesn't even fall in that category, does she? Does she say go NC no matter what? I don't think so, so YOU are the one labeling her as one, not me. ROW are to the extreme and in the way I described in my first post. I don't label anyone, and I never labelled BB. Someone on here, sorry, someone who used to be on here, DID label her and come after her in a very nasty way. I never said YOU labelled her. Chill out. Obviously various people on here have different reactions/opinions about what rOW means to them. Part I bolded, what does that have to do with it? There are many reformed OW on here who sometimes use the NC line and others don't. I've also seen many others who are not reformed use the NC line. I've seen that happen (bolded) a lot lately and I find that really sad. Of course they can't come out and name names so saying things like that serves no purpose other than to just generally give a new poster a incredible amount of distrust for any advice given. I would go so far as to say it's one of the crappiest things I've seen done here. (bold) I agree. It discredits the person giving the advice right off the bat, like a new poster can't decide for themselves. It isn't up to me, you (general you) to decide to tell anybody, new or not, who to listen to and who to disreguard their advice. Unless it's outright rude and pissy, obviously most posters will ignore and not take that persons advice.
anne1707 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 'Didn't say you did. It was a general statement. Sorry - my misunderstanding Well, you might not think so..but when a newbie comes and is shocked/bewildered to discover that the place that is supposedly for support is not only a place for support..but a "free for all"..sometimes some people deem it is necessary to "let them in on" who is whom. Of course, it is bias..it is up to the newbie to decide for herself/himself to take anybody's word for anything. Oh I know what this place can be like - I came if for some major flak when I joined LS The use of labelling should be discouraged because it does indeed promote the bias you refer to. Thankfully it does seem to be a minority who want to label others (yet so often object to being labelled themselves )
fooled once Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Fooled Once, your post made me wonder how long this term has been used on Loveshack. I did a search and found many old posts. The oldest one dated all the way back to November 15th 2005, so it seems this terminology has been established here on Loveshack for a long time. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=622795&postcount=8 I am not familiar with the term myself, and am new on this forum, so I am trying to get an understanding whether this is indeed a derogatory label or not. Thanks Trinity. I didn't realize it went back that far - I just remember about a year or so ago (could be longer, could be sooner) that a couple of FORMER members threw the "reformed" word around to discredit some former OW. They used the term reformed to imply that those posters opinions weren't valid or important. I am sure findingnemo already has an idea who these "reformed" OWs are, or at least have an idea. If not, I am sure she will make it her business to know-given that she has come up with all these thoughtful, innocent, truly-just-wanting-to-understand questions/scenarios...one more research would not be too much. or..you can always just go back and re-read your own posts. I have no need to go back and re-read my posts. Maybe you should I take it from your dig, which is against TOS, that you have decided *I* am a reformed OW. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am just what I said I was back on page 2 ... Myself - I am a person who was involved with a MM many, many years ago. I was not married and he was separated and living apart from his wife when I met him. As with many OW, promises were made and broken. Needless to say, I moved past that time and met my H and married him and have been happily married for almost 13 years. I am here to share my experiences, to support those who truly want to end the pain of an affair and to offer any advice I can (not just in this section, but in other sections as well). You may disagree, but that doesn't give you (or any of your group) the right to label me anything but what I have stated I am. To me, this labeling is no different than labeling people whore, idiot, sl*t, stupid, sweet, etc. While you may think someone is one of those labels, it doesn't give you the right to continue to call someone a "name"/label that you have deemed that they are. I have been labeled with being rOW. I don't care for the label because it's been used in a derogatory way at times. I regret that I was involved in an affair, it was against my beliefs and my moral code but yet I did it anyway. I stumbled upon LS because I still had unresolved issues about it several years later. A lot has happened since I first came here and I'm even more convinced now that it's on my top five list of things I wish I'd never done. However.........with that said, I try to remain compassionate and I hope that sometimes I can help. Ditto! Whenever people try to leave a bad situation there are those who try and pull them down back into it. It is a crabs in a barrel kind of mentality. They want others to wallow in misery with them. I know people who stopped abusing drugs and other substances and their old friends resent them for it. When a woman manages to break out of the vicious cycle of drama and heartbreak that comes with the overwhelming majority of affairs people still stuck in it want to pull her down. Yep - seen it on here a lot, but it hasn't happened as much as it had in the past, mainly because it was FORMER members who did this. Of course there is nothing wrong with offering advice. However, do you not agree that there is something wrong with "bullying" or "shaming" someone into submission or surrender? And yes, it does happen. * Funny, I have seen the bullying by current OW when they start calling other OW "CLAW (cat lady other woman; which was a slap in the face to many OW on here, including two that I know of who left because of this label that a current poster threw out there) or the time certain OW told an OW who ended an affair that is was obvious she didn't love the MM enough because she ended the affair instead of continuing it, no matter how much that OW was hurting That was very sad and that OW never came back either. Of course, not all reformed OWs are bullies or disrespectful , that goes without saying. Do we need to qualify things every single time? The OP has a question about rOWs because she noticed there was something "different" about it-so that is the focus. If it there was no other connotation attached to the term,other than a remorseful OW,findingnemo would not be so confused and people would not have all these input. *Again, where is this list of who are the reformed OW who are bullies or are disrespectful? Do you also have a list of current OW who are bullies and/or are disrespectful? I do not know anybody who resents another for deciding to no longer be an OW. I think we celebrate anybody who makes a decision to take a path that she believes is better for her. *Like I posted above, there was at least two different threads in this section of LS that was started by an OW who was ending or who had ended the affair and she was made to feel like poo poo from current OW who told her she didn't love the MM enough, she wasn't respectful enough and she should have stayed and put up with the hurt, etc. because it would have proven that she loved the guy. Yes, for the most part, I do believe the advice are sincere. The breakdown is that when an OW decides to do something contrary to their advice then the respect and compassion is thrown out (usually), then the bullying, insults, shaming and denigration start. *Again, the same thing happens to an OW who wants to end an affair. Or it happens when a former OW gives her advice and a current OW disagrees and it starts insults, bullying, etc. Heck, it has even carried over to newer websites where the intent is to come to LS and discredit posters and recruit new members. Bullying by ANYONE is disgusting and pathetic. The more I think about this, the more it gets under my skin. Why should anyone who is a XOW have their advice discredited just because of their status?????? And btw..........I have not forgotten that I loved xmm, yes I did but....... I regretted the affair before I came here, I regretted the affair after I came here, I regretted the affair after I found out the truth, none of that changed and yes if he and I were still together and things hadn't happened as they did, I'd still regret it and I make no apologies for my regret. And of course I'm more cynical of mm and their motives, after having lived through what I have, who the hell wouldn't be? Great post BB. I would second your question - why should ANYONE who is an xOW have their advice discredited just because someone else decided they are going to slap a label on the xOW? I am sure you have experienced this - I have personally received many PM's from new members (after they have gotten PM privileges, thanking me for saying what I did, for giving the advice I did, etc. .......a lot of it is also other members jumping in and feeding off of each other and THAT is where the bullying starts, insults and fighting etc..It isn't directed at the person who created the thread, it's certain members here who don't get along or see eye to eye. There, I said it. And everybody knows this too.. Hell, I know I've been guilty of it sometimes, the person isn't here anymore though. I try my hardest not to fan the flames. *WWIU, I have seen it too ... too many times a thread gets junked up with all the infighting Thankfully, I have noticed that this is slowly not happening so much. Seems like maybe the drama has finally left and / or people are TAKING WHAT THEY NEED and leaving the rest. Or pot stirrers have moved on Yes it does happen sometimes, and sadly I think it goes with the fact alot of people have been or are affected by infidelity or just been hurt, lash out but not intentionally directed at the OP, but reacting to their own situation. And fact too, LS allows anybody and everybody to come and post/reply. It's not right but it happens. The thing tony wants everybody to do is hit the alert us option instead of jumping in and fighting/reacting to that post. Let him take care of it and delete the comment. I could name someone, but I won't. Because someone used it in a negative way towards another member and it got out of hand and got used in that negative context over and over again, it caught on. Just like the BBS thing. One person made it up and then others use it, even though they must know it causes more reaction and fans the flames between certain members. I can see why she wanted to know what people thought it meant to them. It is a good question. People are passionate about their beliefs. Either they believe in cheating or they don't. And that is what is great - that people have different views. I think anyone who has any issue in life should get various opinions and sift through it and see what sticks on a wall for them. I know from the majority of posts I have seen on this section of LS, many people who ARE in affairs never thought they would ever be, many can't handle the secrecy, many have NO ONE in real life to talk to, many are ashamed of their actions and many want the HURT TO STOP. Why is it such a big deal to some that those who were in affairs (but are now out of it) give their views and encourage the affair partner to get out of the affair because of the hurt? Most affairs cause hurt upon hurt. It is the rare affair, IMHO, that doesn't cause pain. Fortunately, we can all think for ourselves, even if a few posters seem to want to do our thinking for us. Totally agree wo :bunny: I like your posts - it is important to know that there is a whole world out there and that happiness does exist. Thank you!!! Thanks FN. I want other OW who are ending their affair to know that there STILL IS LIFE and LOVE out there. That they do NOT have to be a hidden secret waiting for a phone call or a text. That there is someone out there who is proud to be seen with them, that there is someone out there that will put them first and that there are people out there who have been through the fire and come out the other side and went on to have a very happy fulfilling life I'm trying to understand if there is a difference between the concept former other woman and reformed other woman. Are all former other women reformed? If not, the use of the term seems warranted in my opinion. Or better yet, if the term is perceived as derogatory by the very group which by others is called reformed, why not suggest a term of your own which distinguishes you from other former other women? IMHO there is no need for MORE labels. XOW covers it. And I specifically do not need some other person on a website to make a label for me. I can tell you myself "what" I am. I don't need a group of bullies to label me something that is derogatory or demeaning. Or better yet, let's not label people other than using the accepted abbreviations as per LS http://www.loveshack.org/forums/faq.php?faq=messages#faq_acronyms and stop using alternatives to try and insult/discredit posters which happens far too often. The point of this site is that we all come here with our own history, our own viewpoint and our own truth. Just because my truth does not correspond with someone elses, it does not mean that one is less valid than the other. If we only wanted to listen/read one viewpoint then LS is not the place to be. You rock Anne! Most former OW don't feel the need to distinguish themselves from other former OW. Most are happy just posting their opinions and advice in whatever way they think is useful and think their posts should stand on their own merits. While there sometimes has been a few who wanted to be identified together as "unapologetic OW", there doesn't seem to be a similar need or desire expressed from other OW. If it ain't broke,... You rock too Wo! This reminds me of the abortion debate. The group against abortion didn't want to be called anti-abortion, so they came up with the name pro-life. That's what I'm getting at. By coming up with a term of your own you avoid terms that can be perceived as derogatory. By just objecting to being labeled you leave it to other groups to label you. actually, I have no need or desire to have anyone else label me. Why does ANYONE need to come up with a term to label someone anything???? This is an anonymous forum. We all get to read the posts and make up our own minds. When someone chooses to label another poster or group of posters, it tells us something about the person doing the labelling. About the group they are labelling? Not so much, since we don't even know who is in the group! Totally agree
tami-chan Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 I don't label anyone, Sorry, WWIU...everybody labels and everybody is labeled when they come to this part of LS-OW, BS , WS those things are labels. I have said this before those who say they don't label are being dishonest or if I may add, come short of their understanding of what a label is. I agree. It discredits the person giving the advice right off the bat, like a new poster can't decide for themselves. It isn't up to me, you (general you) to decide to tell anybody, new or not, who to listen to and who to disreguard their advice. Unless it's outright rude and pissy, obviously most posters will ignore and not take that persons advice.Funny, you said the bolded. When a newbie asks why a member is giving "advice" ( and I am using the word loosely and generously) in such a vitriolic manner I would venture to say that that person already has an idea why....most often the question is just to verify. Besides, why won't anyone answer a question from a poster? It IS a public forum, after all...!
tami-chan Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 I have no need to go back and re-read my posts. Maybe you should I take it from your dig, which is against TOS, that you have decided *I* am a reformed OW. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am just what I said I was back on page 2 ... Thanks for the invite. I am not into pain.. I actually do not remember your story, FO-nor was I interested, so 'did not read what was on page 2. There are very few members on LS whose stories are compelling and interesting enough for me to remember. You may disagree, but that doesn't give you (or any of your group) the right to label me anything but what I have stated I am. To me, this labeling is no different than labeling people whore, idiot, sl*t, stupid, sweet, etc. While you may think someone is one of those labels, it doesn't give you the right to continue to call someone a "name"/label that you have deemed that they are. Ok, I read that...(I am kind of forced to read it since it was part of your response to me...lol..you got me there,FO !). Why would I disagree with you about your story? What I think of you (ie. "labeling" is absolutely my right), but I do not have any right to use anything against you that would make you suffer because of what I think of you-not that I can ever...of course...but let's just make that distinction. About the bolded. Are you "labeling" me"? Obviously you have lumped me in the company of some people...Do you have a list of names of this group? and may I know what this group is made of? because I want to know if you have any right to do that to me....:lmao:! Hypocrisy knows no bounds. The audacity. I rest my case. Too funny .* Funny, I have seen the bullying by current OW when they start calling other OW "CLAW (cat lady other woman; which was a slap in the face to many OW on here, including two that I know of who left because of this label that a current poster threw out there) or the time certain OW told an OW who ended an affair that is was obvious she didn't love the MM enough because she ended the affair instead of continuing it, no matter how much that OW was hurting That was very sad and that OW never came back either. Yeah ...well, we all know "bullying" is not exclusive to one side. 'Never said it was. So, do you have names of these OWs so we can re-visit their stories? I haven't been on this forum in a long time. *Again, where is this list of who are the reformed OW who are bullies or are disrespectful? Do you also have a list of current OW who are bullies and/or are disrespectful? I would not know, but I can tell you who said there was a list and maybe you can ask her...let me scroll back...oh there it is...read post #58. Apparently, she knows of someone who knows of a list. *Like I posted above, there was at least two different threads in this section of LS that was started by an OW who was ending or who had ended the affair and she was made to feel like poo poo from current OW who told her she didn't love the MM enough, she wasn't respectful enough and she should have stayed and put up with the hurt, etc. because it would have proven that she loved the guy. Ok, so there is one (I have not read the thread that you have mentioned or know of it). I don't know if you know this, but people do not feel/think about things the same way. I am sure that current OW was dealt with by the other members, right? so what happened to that current OW who made the other OW feel like "poopoo"? Is she still here? *Again, the same thing happens to an OW who wants to end an affair. Or it happens when a former OW gives her advice and a current OW disagrees and it starts insults, bullying, etc. Heck, it has even carried over to newer websites where the intent is to come to LS and discredit posters and recruit new members. Bullying by ANYONE is disgusting and pathetic. Oh FO, you are saying the same things over and over again. Bullying(by anybody) is never ok, so is disrespecting a choice made by an adult person. One does not have to agree with the choice; one does not have to support it, and certainly one does not have to respect the person making the choice...one only has to respect that a choice was made.
Author findingnemo Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 Sorry, WWIU...everybody labels and everybody is labeled when they come to this part of LS-OW, BS , WS those things are labels. I have said this before those who say they don't label are being dishonest or if I may add, come short of their understanding of what a label is. Funny, you said the bolded. When a newbie asks why a member is giving "advice" ( and I am using the word loosely and generously) in such a vitriolic manner I would venture to say that that person already has an idea why....most often the question is just to verify. Besides, why won't anyone answer a question from a poster? It IS a public forum, after all...! This is true. As a newbie, one of the first things one has to learn is that there will be an attack from someone at some point. The vitriolic ones are easy to dismiss. But there are those that leave you wondering whether the poster is serious or not. I think that if a newbie asks, someone should give an answer but in a tacful way (not in a condenscending and insulting manner). For some threads, posters warn the OP to expect attacks from the get go and to ignore them. This, in my mind, doesn't make the poster look bad. In fact, it helps the OP who is usually in pain to be prepared;).
woinlove Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) This is true. As a newbie, one of the first things one has to learn is that there will be an attack from someone at some point. The vitriolic ones are easy to dismiss. But there are those that leave you wondering whether the poster is serious or not. I think that if a newbie asks, someone should give an answer but in a tacful way (not in a condenscending and insulting manner). For some threads, posters warn the OP to expect attacks from the get go and to ignore them. This, in my mind, doesn't make the poster look bad. In fact, it helps the OP who is usually in pain to be prepared;). What I've found interesting about some of those warning is that some select a particular group who they feel they need to warn about. Some just select out BS. Some select out what they called BBS and/or rOW. But, as this thread shows, repeated meanness of spirit is more likely to be an individual leaning, than to come from any specific category. I agree with BB that this kind of labelling of groups to not listen to is a unfortunate feature of LS. But, like people who want to continue to use a label for others after being told that it is not appreciated, one can't stop people from being themselves. Just contributing more useful, thoughtful posts is probably the best defence. Edited March 7, 2011 by woinlove
Spark1111 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Good thread, FN! Here is my point: Why does it even matter? I sense a need from some posters to protect newbies from vitriol. Why do some find that a necessary component of the advice they personally have to give? Isn't that like quantifying who's advice is good and right and who's advice should be summarily dismissed? Isn't that a form of censorship? And do we ALL not agree censorship is wrong? Are their posters who find it necessary to protect newly BSs from advice such as "well, if your marriage was fine, he/she wouldn't have cheated," or rWS for treating their fOW despicably when they return to the M? Or rWS who post they never truly loved their OW/OM? This is the court of anonymous public opinion. Take what you need, and leave the rest.
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Silly_Girl is right. Here on LS, the term "reformed OW" carries with it a negative vibe ONLY because many treat the OWs worse than some of the BSs themselves! You would think they would be more sympathetic and understanding but they are not. Most are so full of themselves. All have left their MMs with their dignity intact and have moved on to bigger, better things....riiight~~~ .I dare to find a single post where a prior OW claims to have never lost a little dignity, in their own opinion. All I have seen spoke about feeling foolish for their part in the situation. Going on to bigger and better things? That I will agree with as it's a given.
Spark1111 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 It has everything to do with it. An XOW was in an A. They understand the dynamic, they know it's like and they give advice based on the situation. They don't always immediately say go NC. Number one it's highly hypocritical considering they were in an A and second it's not based on anything other than a view that A's should not happen. It doesn't take into account the individual circumstances, it simply is a value judgment and one that they themselves could not live up to or they would have never been in an A in the first place. To hold others to a standard that you yourself could not live up to is unbelievable. It would be like telling ALL BS's to leave unfaithful H's and not try to reconcile or the exact opposite. It's almost lazy IMO. It's like just copying and pasting the same thing over and over. About the bolded: Thank you for proving my point. This happens all the time in the Infidelity forum. It is advice based on personal perspective. Yet few are on the Infidelity site asking others to be kinder when the advice is "Divorce them. Once a cheater always a cheater." So why do some believe additional kindnesses are owed here, at this forum? Or, why do some believe "newbies" are owed additional kindness here? Aren't the newly betrayed owed kindness also? Yet no one is over there calling anyone a reformed anything. Could I be a reformed BS? Sure. Or a RMM? Sure. Or a RWS. Sure. But is does not seem as necessary to do so in that forum. So why was it ever necessary to do so in this forum? I never understood it.
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Of course there is nothing wrong with offering advice. However, do you not agree that there is something wrong with "bullying" or "shaming" someone into submission or surrender? And yes, it does happen.Yes, it does happen when someone pulls out the ROW label and uses it to punish a poster.
Author findingnemo Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 Good thread, FN! Here is my point: Why does it even matter? I sense a need from some posters to protect newbies from vitriol. Why do some find that a necessary component of the advice they personally have to give? Isn't that like quantifying who's advice is good and right and who's advice should be summarily dismissed? Isn't that a form of censorship? And do we ALL not agree censorship is wrong? Are their posters who find it necessary to protect newly BSs from advice such as "well, if your marriage was fine, he/she wouldn't have cheated," or rWS for treating their fOW despicably when they return to the M? Or rWS who post they never truly loved their OW/OM? This is the court of anonymous public opinion. Take what you need, and leave the rest. Makes sense. We come to anonymous forums to hear all perspectives. Why should any opinion be censored? I agree with ^^^!
trinity1 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Makes sense. We come to anonymous forums to hear all perspectives. Why should any opinion be censored? I agree with ^^^! I don't see using labels as censoring anyone. I see it as using our language as the tool it is, to give us a shortcut to understanding the world around us by describing a phenomena. I wonder if some posters are interpreting the word "reformed" in a negative sense which the word doesn't carry. I am proud to say that I am a reformed cheater. I have left that behavior behind me to never return to it.
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 But BB, I don't see you in the gang of those I was referring to. Because you still have compassion, you can still read a post and feel their pain and offer advice from your painful experiences. And the advice IN PRINCIPLE may be the same as those from other corners but - rightly or wrongly - it feels as though it's coming from a very much kinder, more understanding place. No one here wants posters to suffer in a destructive relationship, regardless of who is married to whom. But I love your posts because I never feel judgement or disdain. And yet she WAS referred to, in a derogatory way, as a ROW.
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