Define rOW...good or bad?

[NoIDidn't]

This sounds so much like what a cheating MM would say to gaslight his W. She doesn't know exactly what's going on' date=' but she can sense that there is more under the surface.[/quote']

 

Need to add.

 

The MM tells his W that since she can't identify the problem maybe she shouldn't consider it any longer.

 

Encouraging denial by saying "what problem" other than what they want you to see.

 

Wow.

[donnamaybe]

Then report the posts that you feel are in violation of the TOS.

 

It's not anyone's function here on LS to "warn" posters about the supposed "limits" and apparent pending demeaning and harrassing posts.

 

Doing THAT really is what's in violation of TOS, IMHO.

 

If you feel someone crosses the line...report them. But trying to "warn" other posters because YOU don't agree with another poster's viewpoint/advice/etc... is potentially more likely to create greater strife and trouble on that thread and on this board than just posting your opposing advice/support...and more likely to lead the thread being shut down and that poster not receiving ANY support.

 

That's all these labels do...create factionism and strife.

 

That's the problem...people need to stop trying to label others...stop trying to 'warn' others to avoid "certain groups of people" because they don't agree with their advice. Just post your own advice and let others post theirs.

 

What's so tough about that? Much easier to stay within the TOS and avoid being banned that way.

Again, Owl sums it up perfectly!

 

And, yes, I have seen instances where new posters were told they were going to be bashed and ridiculed - by the very people who claim OTHERS are bad news.

[Silly_Girl]

This sounds so much like what a cheating MM would say to gaslight his W. She doesn't know exactly what's going on, but she can sense that there is more under the surface.

 

Wow.

 

Needless to say, I disagree with the implication of your question. I am well within my rights of attempting to identify it and critiquing what I have learned and intuited so far.

 

Oh bless ya!

 

You don't understand it, or why it's happening. Yet you've decided it's wrong.

 

Ho-kay.....

 

Who exactly is suffering, NID, to give you this 'sense that there is something more under the surface'?

[donnamaybe]

Hi NoIDidn't.

 

Half the time I've seen the term, I wasn't sure whether it was meant as an insult or not! So I decided to take it as NOT an insult, and that helped when I saw it written as an insult. I'm not easily offended but I think sometimes there are posters that are purposefully rude and insulting and that's a shame. I've decided not to be offended by anything that someone on the Internet says... I've gotten a lot of help from LS and I take what helps and ignore the rest. (At this point I'm not asking for advice but when I was, especially when I was leaving my affair, it got tough sometimes. I read about how there are posters whose advice it is to always get out of an affair, and I think about when I was in/getting out of mine and feel like there were posters whose advice it was to always stay in the affair! So I guess it's just a matter of perspective.)

Yes, Star, there are the affair "cheerleaders." Those are the ones who primarily beat up anyone who advises to hold their MM/MW to some kind of standard, i.e. "leave the spouse or leave me alone."

[OWoman]

Yes, Star, there are the affair "cheerleaders." Those are the ones who primarily beat up anyone who advises to hold their MM/MW to some kind of standard, i.e. "leave the spouse or leave me alone."

 

Another label... I wonder who's on that list...?

[BB07]

This board has one function and that is NC. They talk of balance, but there is no balance. If a poster decides to stay in the R and communicates that there is this like dog pile of BS's and reformed.

 

If you don't believe me, just watch for yourself the next new poster that chooses to stay in the R and see what happens, see how they are responded to. They will be demeaned and harrassed.

 

Bold...people should vent about their own situations and not ON others. That is rude, crude, and socially unacceptable.

 

I find your post that puts everyone on this board in one category as the most rude of anything in this thread. You are doing the exact same thing that you are accusing others of doing.

 

Personally I don't advise everyone to go NC, I do if the people are reaching out because they are getting more pain than pleasure. The other threads when I don't feel I have anything to offer, I move on. I like the discussion threads where some of us talk about how and why we found ourselves in affairs. Am I a saint, no but I'm certainly not here to insult, or berate, or for petes sake there is no way in hell I'm here to harass anyone.

 

And BTW........I don't appreciate your assigning me and everyone else to a dogpile.

[BB07]

Great post Owl!

[NoIDidn't]

Oh bless ya!

 

 

You don't understand it, or why it's happening. Yet you've decided it's wrong.

 

Ho-kay.....

 

And yet, like the MM gaslighting his W, you understand it and refuse to elaborate. Could it be that both know its wrong but refuse to address it?

 

I'm not sure what the aim of your questions is, but I'm no longer participating.

 

Enjoy your evening.

[Spark1111]

You're not EVERYONE Spark. Not everyone comes here feeling 'strong, independent and opinionated'. Some people who rock up at places like this feel like killing themselves, actually.

 

I came here an absolute puddle of despair. I lurked on this site for months before I had the courage to post.

 

I, too, heard many hurtful opinions on the Infidelity site; from divorce him, he will never change, how do you know he still isn't seeing her, how could you possibly ever trust him again, why would you want to, what did you do wrong in your marriage that he had an affair, and the list goes on and on.

 

Somewhere in all of that there were people who were extremely kind and others who were less so.

 

But most if not all had a perspective that in time would be useful to me, and if not, I ignored it.

 

I never came here expecting to be molly-coddled, or protected, or to have others diminish the advice given me by some of the harsher posters. That's condescending and to me, a form of censorship in that someone believes their advice is in someway better than another's.

 

So I guess my point is your pain is not greater than my pain which is not greater than someone else's pain.

 

And there is a profound lesson in learning that, and it does not require a lable or a "qualifier."

 

I'm a big girl and I make up my own mind what I can use and what I can't.

[Spark1111]

This board has one function and that is NC. They talk of balance, but there is no balance. If a poster decides to stay in the R and communicates that there is this like dog pile of BS's and reformed.

 

If you don't believe me, just watch for yourself the next new poster that chooses to stay in the R and see what happens, see how they are responded to. They will be demeaned and harrassed.

 

Bold...people should vent about their own situations and not ON others. That is rude, crude, and socially unacceptable.

 

This is a sweeping generalization and really rude for you PIH!

 

What gives?

[BB07]

I think that the bolded also implies the courtesy of not throwing them into the drama of longtime posters, or scaring them further to think that people only come here to harm them with their posts.

 

BSs (BH and BW) have come to the forums in much the same fragile state, but no one is rushing to warn them of the "evil, heartless OW" that might post in their threads.

 

Do OW really feel that their pain needs to be protected from potential posters that might not tell them what they want to hear? Its not all the MM's fault that they are hurting. Do OW feel that somehow the hurting BS earned their pain by virtue of their spouse cheating on them?

 

There is an attitude underlying this thought process that the OW needs to be warned. I just don't know what it is.

 

I don't think anyone should take it upon themselves to warn anyone but like I said in my prior post we should treat especially new posters with kindness because we don't know how fragile they might be and yes that goes for the other forums at LS also. It's a delicate fine line at times and it's even more difficult because we all have different personalities.

 

In answer to your other question about do OW feel they should get protection from something they may not want to hear......well no I don't think so but like I pointed out if we make someone too defensive they aren't going to hear anything and if people say to them, oh don't listen to xyz then any help that might be already blown out of the water.

[Spark1111]

Then report the posts that you feel are in violation of the TOS.

 

It's not anyone's function here on LS to "warn" posters about the supposed "limits" and apparent pending demeaning and harrassing posts.

 

Doing THAT really is what's in violation of TOS, IMHO.

 

If you feel someone crosses the line...report them. But trying to "warn" other posters because YOU don't agree with another poster's viewpoint/advice/etc... is potentially more likely to create greater strife and trouble on that thread and on this board than just posting your opposing advice/support...and more likely to lead the thread being shut down and that poster not receiving ANY support.

 

That's all these labels do...create factionism and strife.

 

That's the problem...people need to stop trying to label others...stop trying to 'warn' others to avoid "certain groups of people" because they don't agree with their advice. Just post your own advice and let others post theirs.

 

What's so tough about that? Much easier to stay within the TOS and avoid being banned that way.

 

Great post OWL!

 

The people accusing others of factionism and strife are quite good at creating it where it doesn't have to exist!

[worlybear]

It's not censorship. No one is prevented from posting. Some posters offer newbies further commentary on another's post. I have been grateful for that at times with the likes of Dexter!

Oh Dexter where are you now?(Sigh.)

Really miss the blunt remarks!

[BB07]

Oh Dexter where are you now?(Sigh.)

Really miss the blunt remarks!

 

Oh he is still around,

[desertIslandCactus]

You should try it sometime. Might lead to an outcome you'd like better.

 

No way Betty - or 'Gel' .. (Both of you have said: I make my own destiny.)

 

God is in charge of my destiny, not me.

 

And I would still be muddling around in the ER if it weren't for Him.

[NoIDidn't]

I decided to read the "Preach" thread in the LS Questions forum and found a quote from a former MOD in the OP.

 

It states this from the LS Guidelines:

We expect that all participants will respond to posts in their specific context, not to the person who has posted. While opinions may be formed of various members based on what they have posted in the past, any response to any particular submission should be grounded in what has been posted in that thread. Past disagreements should not be resurrected in new threads. It is important that criticism be directed at what is stated in a post ("I don't like your idea") rather than at the individual making the statement ("I don't like you").

 

I know that some carry over from other posts is inevitable, but this seems to make this whole conversation moot as we should be responding to the substance of what is posted NOT to the poster posting it - which is what those who get unfairly labelled have been saying all along.

 

This entire thread, except the OP as she didn't know, is breaking the LS rules in that it rehashes past disagreements over.

 

How does one call a truce around here? BSs and former OW that no longer rationalize affairs are not going to stop posting here, so what is an acceptable compromise? There is only one MOD around here so we are going to have to police ourselves to a degree, IMO.

[whichwayisup]

How does one call a truce around here? BSs and former OW that no longer rationalize affairs are not going to stop posting here, so what is an acceptable compromise? There is only one MOD around here so we are going to have to police ourselves to a degree, IMO.

 

I hope this is possible. The thing is, people have to want to stop the arguing, stop the ego trips, stop wanting to be right all the time, stop pot stirring and each person is capable of respecting others, even to those whom you (general you) may not like much. The bitchy comments, the use of the , or blantantly implying insults can stop if each person wants it to. All it takes is a few people to just start ignoring rude comments, focus on the original poster and those who make the rude comments to other members, will be left on their own with no reaction .. maybe making themselves look bad.

 

I have to add, starting 'discussion threads' actually make the fighting worse. It just continues on and on and on, various people feed off one another and more reaction happens. It's going on in this thread. I mean, why a person who is banned from this site and hasn't been here in months would come back and pick on FO and just be plain cruel just shows how nasty this place has become. I know, as does everybody else, it was intentional and for reaction. It's stuff like THAT that makes this place more negative. Not the "tough love" support or cookie cutter advice that is making this place worse.

 

Anyway..In the past month, many new members have joined and I haven't seen any fighting on their personal threads. Alot of good advice and support has been given by alot of people. Note that I said PEOPLE. Not bs/ow/om/mm/mw.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't think anyone should take it upon themselves to warn anyone but like I said in my prior post we should treat especially new posters with kindness because we don't know how fragile they might be and yes that goes for the other forums at LS also. It's a delicate fine line at times and it's even more difficult because we all have different personalities.

 

In answer to your other question about do OW feel they should get protection from something they may not want to hear......well no I don't think so but like I pointed out if we make someone too defensive they aren't going to hear anything and if people say to them, oh don't listen to xyz then any help that might be already blown out of the water.

 

I agree with you, BB. Just wanted to ask the questions to a poster that is more likely to answer honestly than play games with their answer and opinion on the matter.

 

Its like there is some unspoken code between some posters here where they've gotten this pact, or talking points, that they refuse to deviate from when engaged in a debate. LOL.

 

But seriously, its always regrettable when a poster feels defensive and OW are not the only ones on the defensive in this forum as this thread explains. Defining people in a way that they would not choose themselves has a way of creating a hostile environment.

 

I'm developing a theory here. When I can state it without writing a thesis, I will submit it for examination. LOL. But for now we are left with "which came first" type considerations. I can't say that I've ever seen someone label themselves as rOW first, but my thoughts are more about what caused the tone of this forum to change to make such labeling seem like a good strike back.

[NoIDidn't]

I hope this is possible. The thing is, people have to want to stop the arguing, stop the ego trips, stop wanting to be right all the time, stop pot stirring and each person is capable of respecting others, even to those whom you (general you) may not like much. The bitchy comments, the use of the , or blantantly implying insults can stop if each person wants it to. All it takes is a few people to just start ignoring rude comments, focus on the original poster and those who make the rude comments to other members, will be left on their own with no reaction .. maybe making themselves look bad.

 

I have to add, starting 'discussion threads' actually make the fighting worse. It just continues on and on and on, various people feed off one another and more reaction happens. It's going on in this thread. I mean, why a person who is banned from this site and hasn't been here in months would come back and pick on FO and just be plain cruel just shows how nasty this place has become. I know, as does everybody else, it was intentional and for reaction. It's stuff like THAT that makes this place more negative. Not the "tough love" support or cookie cutter advice that is making this place worse.

 

Anyway..In the past month, many new members have joined and I haven't seen any fighting on their personal threads. Alot of good advice and support has been given by alot of people. Note that I said PEOPLE. Not bs/ow/om/mm/mw.

 

I agree, WWIU. I agree. Thing is it seems like some might feel that they are losing something if they agree to stop doing a behavior that they know affects those they perceive as their "enemies".

 

I also think that the "discussion" threads are the worst. I've done better at avoiding them, but sometimes....lol...gotta do better.

 

Oh, I don't agree about the emoticons. If the site didn't want us to use rolling eyes, sick faces, and the like, they shouldn't have included them is my opinion on them. Its kind of hard to frown upon sarcasm while encouraging it with tools.

[BB07]

I hope this is possible. The thing is, people have to want to stop the arguing, stop the ego trips, stop wanting to be right all the time, stop pot stirring and each person is capable of respecting others, even to those whom you (general you) may not like much. The bitchy comments, the use of the , or blantantly implying insults can stop if each person wants it to. All it takes is a few people to just start ignoring rude comments, focus on the original poster and those who make the rude comments to other members, will be left on their own with no reaction .. maybe making themselves look bad.

 

I have to add, starting 'discussion threads' actually make the fighting worse. It just continues on and on and on, various people feed off one another and more reaction happens. It's going on in this thread. I mean, why a person who is banned from this site and hasn't been here in months would come back and pick on FO and just be plain cruel just shows how nasty this place has become. I know, as does everybody else, it was intentional and for reaction. It's stuff like THAT that makes this place more negative. Not the "tough love" support or cookie cutter advice that is making this place worse.

 

Anyway..In the past month, many new members have joined and I haven't seen any fighting on their personal threads. Alot of good advice and support has been given by alot of people. Note that I said PEOPLE. Not bs/ow/om/mm/mw.

 

I want a like button! Really good points WWIU.

[desertIslandCactus]

I decided to read the "Preach" thread in the LS Questions forum and found a quote from a former MOD in the OP.

 

It states this from the LS Guidelines:

 

 

I know that some carry over from other posts is inevitable, but this seems to make this whole conversation moot as we should be responding to the substance of what is posted NOT to the poster posting it - which is what those who get unfairly labelled have been saying all along.

 

This entire thread, except the OP as she didn't know, is breaking the LS rules in that it rehashes past disagreements over.

 

How does one call a truce around here? BSs and former OW that no longer rationalize affairs are not going to stop posting here, so what is an acceptable compromise? There is only one MOD around here so we are going to have to police ourselves to a degree, IMO.

 

I don't understand the outrage.

 

It's not as if the OP was asking a personal question. The thread did appear for discussion.

 

Define rOW .. good or bad ? So it turned into a heated debate .. so what.

 

As someone once said: The OP's question is normally answered in the first pages (I think they said 5) .. So everything else appears to be up for grabs.

 

And I did respond to the orig question on the 1st page.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm a big girl and I make up my own mind what I can use and what I can't.

 

I understand what you are saying, honestly. Again I feel the same sentiment. You are not everyone. And you're referring to an entirely different board. I would expect that a board intended for both BS and WS would be a different flavour than OW.

[pureinheart]

I find your post that puts everyone on this board in one category as the most rude of anything in this thread. You are doing the exact same thing that you are accusing others of doing.

 

Personally I don't advise everyone to go NC, I do if the people are reaching out because they are getting more pain than pleasure. The other threads when I don't feel I have anything to offer, I move on. I like the discussion threads where some of us talk about how and why we found ourselves in affairs. Am I a saint, no but I'm certainly not here to insult, or berate, or for petes sake there is no way in hell I'm here to harass anyone.

 

And BTW........I don't appreciate your assigning me and everyone else to a dogpile.

 

.................

[pureinheart]

I came here an absolute puddle of despair. I lurked on this site for months before I had the courage to post.

 

I, too, heard many hurtful opinions on the Infidelity site; from divorce him, he will never change, how do you know he still isn't seeing her, how could you possibly ever trust him again, why would you want to, what did you do wrong in your marriage that he had an affair, and the list goes on and on.

 

Somewhere in all of that there were people who were extremely kind and others who were less so.

 

But most if not all had a perspective that in time would be useful to me, and if not, I ignored it.

 

I never came here expecting to be molly-coddled, or protected, or to have others diminish the advice given me by some of the harsher posters. That's condescending and to me, a form of censorship in that someone believes their advice is in someway better than another's.

 

So I guess my point is your pain is not greater than my pain which is not greater than someone else's pain.

 

And there is a profound lesson in learning that, and it does not require a lable or a "qualifier."

 

I'm a big girl and I make up my own mind what I can use and what I can't.

 

It was very good that you were able to handle the insults, some, if not most can't.

 

Spark, the sad thing is those same posters that insult in infidelity, insult here too...and it is abusive IMO.

 

There are those on all sides of this triangle that come on these boards very hypersensitive, and some still are...it's not about coddling or wanting to coddle, it's understanding where a person is at and listening...like you for instance, chose to stay with your S, Spark, you should have been supported in that. Trusting that you are a big person and that there might be more to the story, as every single detail cannot possibly be communicated in even several posts.

 

Those were your wishes and that should have been respected.

Edited March 9, 2011 by pureinheart

[trinity1]

How does one call a truce around here? BSs and former OW that no longer rationalize affairs are not going to stop posting here' date=' so what is an acceptable compromise? There is only one MOD around here so we are going to have to police ourselves to a degree, IMO.[/quote']

 

"former OW that no longer rationalize affairs" seems to be the same concept as reformed OW. Perhaps this is a start of finding a term which suits the group themselves? Could this be a compromise, a truce?

Edited March 9, 2011 by trinity1