WorldIsYours Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 For 20 years? Come On. I'm not saying there's a statute of limitations on how long someone should hold out for THAT PERFECT SPOUSE or for her to come around & be remorseful to his standards for him to find happiness.....But for him to say that he's harbored this for 20 years, is still miserable about it & STILL to this day keeps tabs on the other guy..........Come On Y'all!! Be serious here. The fact of the matter is that his wife is unremorseful. It's very clear that he should have left her / should leave her now - so we're all in agreement with that. Doesn't mean we're in agreement with anything else.:laugh:
confusedinkansas Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 The fact of the matter is that his wife is unremorseful. Yes, I know. Unremorseful for 20 years and he's still with her - I've read every post when you've disagreed with my point. Apparently he's not coming back. Guess we've beat a dead horse as well.
WorldIsYours Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Yes, I know. Unremorseful for 20 years and he's still with her -we've beat a dead horse as well. Unremorseful for 20 years, period. Why'd you add he's still with her? Still want to debate about this some more?
confusedinkansas Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Unremorseful for 20 years, period. Why'd you add he's still with her? Still want to debate about this some more? Nope. Just stating the facts as they've been presented to us.
WorldIsYours Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Nope. Just stating the facts as they've been presented to us. Yea, okay. She still unremorseful.
alexandria35 Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 WIY what if we weren't talking about cheating but we were talking about some other kind of bad spousal behavior. What if twenty years ago I married an alcoholic. Say he went on drinking binges, spent all our money, embarassed our family, stayed out all night sometimes, etc, etc..I'm rightfully hurt by this, and confide in my friends and family about how unhappy I am. Some people tell me I should leave, but I think 'well he's my husband and I'm sure he's going to get better' And then twenty years later I'm still with him, he's still a raging alcoholic and now I'm more angry and bitter then ever because he never did get better and give me what I want. Is it my fault that my husband is an out of control alcoholic? No it definitely is not. Is it my alcoholic husbands fault that I'm miserable for having spent 20 years with him? No it's not. Because this isn't about blame. Blaming does no one any good. It's about acceptance and choices. I've known people who have stayed with their alcoholic spouses and they are quite happy because they came to understand that they are powerless to make someone else be who they want them to be, so they decide to accept their alcoholic spouse for who they really are and find happiness with them in spite of the alcoholism. Some people come to the decision that they will never be able to accept the alcoholism and they leave to find a relationship that will bring them happiness and fulfillment. Neither of these choices are bad or wrong. Making either decision is difficult but each person realizes that they can't control the behavior of another and so they take responsibility for their own lives and happiness. Unfortunately there will be some that won't make a choice, won't take responsibility for their life and happiness. That person will never be happy with their alcoholic spouse, they will never accept them, but they won't leave either. They'll just stay in life of misery and blame the alcoholic for it. I would say that this person is definitely playing a part in their own unhappiness.
WorldIsYours Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 WIY what if we weren't talking about cheating but we were talking about some other kind of bad spousal behavior. What if twenty years ago I married an alcoholic. Say he went on drinking binges, spent all our money, embarassed our family, stayed out all night sometimes, etc, etc..I'm rightfully hurt by this, and confide in my friends and family about how unhappy I am. Some people tell me I should leave, but I think 'well he's my husband and I'm sure he's going to get better' And then twenty years later I'm still with him, he's still a raging alcoholic and now I'm more angry and bitter then ever because he never did get better and give me what I want. Is it my fault that my husband is an out of control alcoholic? No it definitely is not. Is it my alcoholic husbands fault that I'm miserable for having spent 20 years with him? No it's not. Because this isn't about blame. Blaming does no one any good. It's about acceptance and choices. I've known people who have stayed with their alcoholic spouses and they are quite happy because they came to understand that they are powerless to make someone else be who they want them to be, so they decide to accept their alcoholic spouse for who they really are and find happiness with them in spite of the alcoholism. Some people come to the decision that they will never be able to accept the alcoholism and they leave to find a relationship that will bring them happiness and fulfillment. Neither of these choices are bad or wrong. Making either decision is difficult but each person realizes that they can't control the behavior of another and so they take responsibility for their own lives and happiness. Unfortunately there will be some that won't make a choice, won't take responsibility for their life and happiness. That person will never be happy with their alcoholic spouse, they will never accept them, but they won't leave either. They'll just stay in life of misery and blame the alcoholic for it. I would say that this person is definitely playing a part in their own unhappiness. But we're not talking about other behavior. We're talking about cheating.
confusedinkansas Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 But we're not talking about other behavior. We're talking about cheating. World - I understand that you can't see past what's happened to you. You can't be objective at all in your rationalization. You seem to have a knee jerk answer to everything. No thought process except "Throw the baby out with the bathwater" attitude. I'm guessing that your pain is pretty fresh in your mind (I've not read your story - sorry) The one thing that many BS's can't manage to see is that infidelity is NOT the worst & most horrible thing that can happen to a marriage. It is a horrible thing to try to get past & get over & move on from. But it is not the worst by any stretch. What Alexandria is saying is spot on. - Yes, we are talking about cheating - However, Alcoholism is VERY MUCH the same thing (I know, cuz I've been there) If you've never lived thru the alcoholic story she told - then you have no idea what it's like, it's the same thing just told in a different format. I'm sure there are other stories that could be told as well that are JUST AS BAD AS or WORSE than having to deal with infidelity. If you've never been the person that had to live thru that -then you really don't have a leg to stand on to argue the point.
WorldIsYours Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 World - I understand that you can't see past what's happened to you. Confusedinkansas, I understand that you can't see past what you've done. You can't be objective at all in your rationalization. I can actually. Watch me do it. And besides my "rationalizations" are the Truth. You seem to have a knee jerk answer to everything. No thought process except "Throw the baby out with the bathwater" attitude. I'm guessing that your pain is pretty fresh in your mind (I've not read your story - sorry) Excuse me for my knee-jerk bluntness, ma'am. So sorry that you can't keep up. And I have no pain. My life is really good, better than ever. So sorry that you're hating on me. The one thing that many BS's can't manage to see is that infidelity is NOT the worst & most horrible thing that can happen to a marriage. It is a horrible thing to try to get past & get over & move on from. But it is not the worst by any stretch. The one thing ALL cheaters refuse to see is that infidelity IS one of the worst ways to hurt someone, and further disrespect shows they have no respect for no one and themselves. What Alexandria is saying is spot on. - Yes, we are talking about cheating - However, Alcoholism is VERY MUCH the same thing (I know, cuz I've been there) If you've never lived thru the alcoholic story she told - then you have no idea what it's like, it's the same thing just told in a different format. I'm sure there are other stories that could be told as well that are JUST AS BAD AS or WORSE than having to deal with infidelity. Like I said, we're talking about infidelity, not alcoholism. This is the infidelity board. Don't have Tony giving you an infraction for going off-topic. If you've never been the person that had to live thru that -then you really don't have a leg to stand on to argue the point. So because some people did not know someone who was an alcoholic, they have no leg to stand on. As I said before, you're going off-topic.
alexandria35 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 WTF? WIY, I can't understand exactly what your argument is here. NOBODY is defending cheaters. NOBODY is saying cheating is okay and NOBODY blames the OP because his wife cheated. All a couple of us are doing is pointing out that the OP has the power to change his situation and he always did. For some unknown reason you don't want him to see that. Okay Fine! You Win!! The OP can spent the next twenty years in his miserable excuse of a marriage and do nothing to change it. He shouldn't try to make his marriage better, he shouldn't leave, he should just stay mired in misery till the end of his days, because as a betrayed spouse it's his God given right to be miserable for the rest of his life. He doesn't ever have to stand up and take control of his life or claim his own happiness, instead he should just blame his wife for every bit of misery he has ever had and every bit of misery he will ever have in the future. Happy Now?
WorldIsYours Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 WTF? WIY, I can't understand exactly what your argument is here. You don't understand or you don't agree? My argument is quite clear... NOBODY is defending cheaters. NOBODY is saying cheating is okay and NOBODY blames the OP because his wife cheated. All a couple of us are doing is pointing out that the OP has the power to change his situation and he always did. For some unknown reason you don't want him to see that. Okay Fine! You Win!! The OP can spent the next twenty years in his miserable excuse of a marriage and do nothing to change it. He shouldn't try to make his marriage better, he shouldn't leave, he should just stay mired in misery till the end of his days, because as a betrayed spouse it's his God given right to be miserable for the rest of his life. He doesn't ever have to stand up and take control of his life or claim his own happiness, instead he should just blame his wife for every bit of misery he has ever had and every bit of misery he will ever have in the future. Oh so now it's nobody defending cheaters? If you want to point out he can change the situation, telling him to get over it is no use. Happy Now? Thank you.
confusedinkansas Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Woah I never defended her actions. I never said what she did was OK. Ever. All I have ever said here is that (in a nutshell) He's crazy for putting up with it for 20 Years & NOW that it's 20 years down the road he is still complaining. He never made a change. He expected HER to change to his liking. Which OBVIOUSLY never happened. So for 20 years he's been a martyr. This is a codependent situation if I've ever seen one. In LS have sympathized with certain situations. On both sides - The WS & the BS. Yes, I've been called the advocate for the cheater here. Which is fine by me since they don't get a voice. But I don't 'defend' them.
WorldIsYours Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Woah I never defended her actions. I never said what she did was OK. Ever. All I have ever said here is that (in a nutshell) He's crazy for putting up with it for 20 Years & NOW that it's 20 years down the road he is still complaining. He never made a change. He expected HER to change to his liking. Which OBVIOUSLY never happened. So for 20 years he's been a martyr. This is a codependent situation if I've ever seen one. In LS have sympathized with certain situations. On both sides - The WS & the BS. Yes, I've been called the advocate for the cheater here. Which is fine by me since they don't get a voice. But I don't 'defend' them. OMG Confused..... The man is innocent, and his wife is unremorseful. Period.
confusedinkansas Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 bulls###. maybe thats all you were saying, but somehow it is forgotten about this guy's PAIN. And for CIK to take his pain and dismiss it as bitching and complaining is not "all a couple of [you] were doing", specifically what CIK said. Yes, this man is innocent. No one is 'dismissing' his pain. He has done nothing wrong to have his wife cheat on him (we assume) - No one has ever disputed this with either WIY or NA. What he has done WRONG (if we must label something) is to not make changes in his life so that he could be happy ~ For 20 Years. The fact that his wife is unremorseful is not his fault - nor can he change that. No one should be dependent on someone else for their own happiness. Codependency.
WorldIsYours Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 nor can he change that. He can change it by dumping her.
ComputerJock Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 Would OP reply and tell what his decision was, forgive and forget, or dump and move on?
confusedinkansas Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 He can change it by dumping her. Which is EXACTLY what I've said. Wow - We seem to agree. What we don't agree on is that he shouldn't have been a martyr for 20 years. You are confusing the fact that - Because I've called a spade a spade by referring to him a Martyr & CoDependent that I've dismissed that he's in pain. That's just not true. However, since he says he's been in this place for 20 years - then YES he is at fault. He has chosen a path where he assums his wife will change. Since that hasn't happened he feels SHE is still to blame. I say NO - He's to blame. He could have made different choices along the 20 year path. He choose not to. Yes, she could have chosen not to have the affair - but it was 20 years ago & they can't change their past. They can only change their futures. Again - He has chosen not to.
confusedinkansas Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 I found it very interesting that this thread has gone on without the OP - (who has only posted twice) So I looked up some of his other threads on the same subject - Yes there are a few. The OP probably won't come back. Not because of what's been said here but because his M.O. is to post once - maybe twice regarding this identical situation - on multiple threads & then never come back to engage in any conversation or give updates. I did read one of them - Says they're "VERY happy.....I also forgave her because I loved her to bits, as I still do and she tells me likewise" Just an FYI
WorldIsYours Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 Which is EXACTLY what I've said. Wow - We seem to agree. What we don't agree on is that he shouldn't have been a martyr for 20 years. You are confusing the fact that - Because I've called a spade a spade by referring to him a Martyr & CoDependent that I've dismissed that he's in pain. That's just not true. However, since he says he's been in this place for 20 years - then YES he is at fault. He has chosen a path where he assums his wife will change. Since that hasn't happened he feels SHE is still to blame. I say NO - He's to blame. He could have made different choices along the 20 year path. He choose not to. Yes, she could have chosen not to have the affair - but it was 20 years ago & they can't change their past. They can only change their futures. Again - He has chosen not to. I don't agree with anything you said, regardless if we both said he should leave. You've been saying this guy is an idiot and that his feelings don't matter, and his wife is innocent. He's the victim and she's an unremorseful 304. End of Story.
WorldIsYours Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 I found it very interesting that this thread has gone on without the OP - (who has only posted twice) So I looked up some of his other threads on the same subject - Yes there are a few. The OP probably won't come back. Not because of what's been said here but because his M.O. is to post once - maybe twice regarding this identical situation - on multiple threads & then never come back to engage in any conversation or give updates. I did read one of them - Says they're "VERY happy.....I also forgave her because I loved her to bits, as I still do and she tells me likewise" Just an FYI The man got scared off or hopefully he's dealing with his unremorsful wife.
ComputerJock Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 Confused, thanks for doing the research. So many posters come on, spill their guts and are never heard from again. I wonder if OPs find out the truth and are too broken up to come back and tell what happened. A BROKEN HEART SHATTERED INTO A MILLION PEICES IS IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER PUT BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.
confusedinkansas Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 I don't agree with anything you said, regardless if we both said he should leave. You've been saying this guy is an idiot and that his feelings don't matter, and his wife is innocent. He's the victim and she's an unremorseful 304. End of Story. :lmao: Wow - you're wrapped pretty tightly around this thread. Are you the OP - just with a different screen name? & what is a 304 anyway? I've never said one time that he was an "idiot" or that his feelings "don't matter" or that his wife was "innocent". You're most definately putting words on here that I have never once said (typed out) or thought. Kindly refrain from accusing me of something I've not done. You're just miffed that I called it like I saw it. (read it) (On Many Different Threads He's Started & then disappeared from)
WorldIsYours Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 :lmao: Wow - you're wrapped pretty tightly around this thread. Are you the OP - just with a different screen name? & what is a 304 anyway? You're the one wrapped up around this thread. You keep responding to me trying to get the last word. You want to know what a 304 is? Grab a calculator, type in the numbers 3,0,4, and then hold the calculater upside down and read what it says LOL. I've never said one time that he was an "idiot" or that his feelings "don't matter" or that his wife was "innocent". You're most definately putting words on here that I have never once said (typed out) or thought. Kindly refrain from accusing me of something I've not done. That is exactly what was said in your posts. Either way it doesn't matter. He's either been scared off or hopefully dealing with his wife. You're just miffed that I called it like I saw it. (read it) (On Many Different Threads He's Started & then disappeared from) No one's miffed here. The problem has always been you calling it like you see it when it comes to betrayed spouses, ma'am.
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