don diego 78 Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 My ex and I have been separated for about a year and a half now. She moved out on me and I had discovered she was speaking with an ex right before she did that. We attempted reconciliation but she backed out of couples counseling. I was caught trying to look through her phone records after she refused to show me them and she kicked me out of her place. She has always promised me nothing physical ever happened with said ex. Flash forward a year and the other day she called me up tearfully saying she missed our family. Mind you that this was immediately after me going the "silent treatment" route after about a year of me pursuing her and constantly being denied. Basically after a month of silence from me she broke down and said the usual textbook stuff..."I didn't realize what I had till it was gone." blah blah blah. It's funny because she really had me considering again...UNTIL. Today I was on a internet forum that we both used to be on and I hadn't been on in ages. Someone had posted an interesting article about how it's the little things in love relationships that we remember. I began getting nostalgic, thinking of her of course...lo and behold I come across her response which chimed in agreement and said something to the effect of "oh yeah, the standout moments are not getting flowers at work (something i used to do too) but being carried gently and lovingly to bed when you fall asleep on the couch and waking up tucked in." guess what? she wasn't talking about me, and guess what? she was writing this literally 4 days before calling me crying. if i can be reading something like that and thinking of her and she can be reading it and thinking of someone else...I dunno...the way I see it this has no fixing. i love my son and wish it could be but...love has to be 50/50. any thoughts?
Saphira Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 i dont know if it is fixable or not. it all depends on your feelings toward the possibility. but when she made that statement about being carried and tucked in, it doesnt necessarily mean that someone did that to her. it could have just been something she would have liked to have been done to her. kinda of her view of romance. like i love the ocean at night. i could say romance is surprising me with a night picnic by the water. doesnt mean someone else did that for me, just that that is what i would like to have done. anyway just some thought on that little section
Movingthrough Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Well like i always say, both sexes do it, but my ex did the same thing with the whole "i love you, miss you" etc etc, only to find out she was seeing someone else. She also did that to me when we split. The reality is i dont know why they do it, i think they let out emotions better then we do so if they wake up and they are hurting over you, you will hear it, even if they arent single. When guys hear that we pursue, but that leaves us screwed because they are with someone else. I would look it like well you arent together, she had an ex in the backround and you have suspicions, that right there is basically saying run away.
Author don diego 78 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) I confronted her on it. Said this isn't me right? She said no and then started acting like I was making everything about ME like i always did and so what that she was just talking about the little things someone did. I don't know I guess under the right circumstances I could accept that we may have multiple loves in our past that leave their mark with the little things they do, but there was something about knowing that the first person to pop in my mind was her and the first person to pop in her head was someone else that bothered me. ...Also knowing that this could be going on in her mind...making me feel like the perpetual runner-up to her past...the man she settled on, and then hearing her crying 4 days later...I don't think this is a safe bet for me. Edited March 1, 2011 by don diego 78
Saphira Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 yeah the way it sounds, you dont want her. you have left her and have tried all you can. right now you need to focus on moving on, focus on your son, and when you are able, finding someone who you can be with and trust and someone who gives back to you all that you give to her. dont settle for something that will be unhealthy and cause all that stress. you dont need that and you dont deserve it.
hopeful4someday Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Wow, you guys are making me feel better already. I'm glad I'm not alone in wacky relationship stuff. It sounds like you guys have a lot of drama in your relationship, and counseling could potentially help. There's also a GREAT book out there that I would recommend to anyone called "Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when Stakes are High". (http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Tools-Talking-Stakes/dp/0071401946) It sounds like both of you are bringing some negative stuff to the table when you try to resolve problems, and so what's happening is that neither of you are helping to objectively understand or solve the problem, but you are getting tripped up in your emotions and acting out in ways that are actually harming your relationship. That being said... it does sound like she may have something still going on with her ex or some other person. If you're separated, I suppose that's fine, but I think based on some of the things you say she's posted and said to you, that she may just want a relationship, and not you or the ex or anyone specifically. She could really have something like borderline personality disorder or be really codependent, and those are issues that she probably needs to tackle on her own before she's going to be able to step up and be the partner you want to have. I tend to agree with you that it doesn't sound like you can pick up and resume a big happy family together. That being said, it may not hurt to talk (with or without the help of a counselor) to try and come to some common ground and foster the best possible relationship between the two of you in a way that makes sense for your son. Good luck!
depplover_1980 Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 Just adding that she doesn't sound bipolar from this but very confused.
Author don diego 78 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Posted March 2, 2011 Thanks for the comments folks. I don't doubt she is confused. It's why I had to draw the line...She basically spent the months of December and January staying over at my place in bed with me and my son, showering over here, eating with us...but she didn't really cross any physical boundaries. Basically playing house but not committing. I don't think there's anyone in the picture because she has repeatedly said to me that she is not good for me right now, or anyone. It's like she's accepted there's something about her but she only talks of finding a therapist and never really does. Today I emailed her and basically told her "Go to therapy so this BS can end and told her the same things she told me on the phone when she called crying: I miss our family too, Do I have to beg?, What do I have to say, I'm hearbroken...but with the added demand for HER to make a decision. I suppose I called her bluff basically, and her response was: I'm sad because I have no faith because I’m scared because I’m happy because I feel guilty for that because Im scared to put (our son) through anything again. I’m sorry I cant have this conversation and I’m sorry you carry this weight I’m heartbroken too. What I said next felt like the truest thing I've said in a long time, what I said we need to ask ourselves is: Am I better off without this person in my life? Is there something missing? Once you know the answer to that question then everything will fall into place...whichever way it goes... She then responded that I was a King. I told her she was a Queen and deserved to be treated that way and she got skittish again saying she was busy with something at work, thanking me and saying she'll get to a healthy place with time. She then owned up to self destruction and depression this winter and how she's optimistic about spring. she closed saying: Im sorry I cant give you what you want and deserve yourself . I told her that was her decision then. I'm back on "No Contact," or as little as possible being that we have a son. To me it's like all this love on a timetable stuff is wrong. You either feel something for someone or not? Am I being pushy? I just don't know what to think anymore.
hopeful4someday Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 I just got dumped last week and was told by the guy that you either love someone or you don't and there's no in-between. I think that may be true for guys... I know as a woman that I can have have developed love for people over time and lost it over time. Maybe just a gender difference.
depplover_1980 Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 I just got dumped last week and was told by the guy that you either love someone or you don't and there's no in-between. I think that may be true for guys... I know as a woman that I can have have developed love for people over time and lost it over time. Maybe just a gender difference. Yeah but surely losing it over time is the same as not loving them. Not a lot of difference really...
hopeful4someday Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 Yeah but surely losing it over time is the same as not loving them. Not a lot of difference really... Meh, I don't know. What is love, anyway? After a relationship breaks off, you just stuff those feelings back down until you don't feel them anymore. It's healthy -- otherwise, how would anyone truly move on? I think everyone has the capacity to love a lot of people, but it's the love that we nurture that lasts. I don't think that means it isn't or wasn't love.
depplover_1980 Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 Meh, I don't know. What is love, anyway? After a relationship breaks off, you just stuff those feelings back down until you don't feel them anymore. It's healthy -- otherwise, how would anyone truly move on? I think everyone has the capacity to love a lot of people, but it's the love that we nurture that lasts. I don't think that means it isn't or wasn't love. Riddle me this, riddle me that...
Author don diego 78 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Posted March 2, 2011 but it's the love that we nurture that lasts... this.
trippi1432 Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) Let's just chalk it up to the very real fact that there is always a time when one person seems to be more "in love" with the other person, so it's not always 50/50. It seems like the best time in a relationship is when you don't question the love because everything seems to be there to support it..the words...the actions...etc. Then one or the other starts thinking "Hmm, am I really in love" or "Hmm, does he/she love me"....confusion...next thing you know...breakup. I'm getting that this woman is not the mother to your son? Edited March 2, 2011 by trippi1432 added question
Author don diego 78 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 So, major update. This past weekend it was my weekend with my son. The day she dropped him off I couldn't help but giver her a hug after she mentioned driving by our old apartment (a grandparent was hospitalized last week with pneumonia and I was feeling vulnerable I guess so I broke NC), I then told her she sucked and she said I know and she then said everything was going to be alright (not sure what she was referring to.) Normally when she calls to check in over the course of the weekend I don't get on the phone but she was asking for me and seemed to be happy sharing that "phone time." Today she calls in the AM and tells me she has sent an email asking me on a date. I said oh boy but not much else. Then she said she was coming over to get our son. Normally, I don't let her in the apartment anymore since NC but she had thrown a line so I figured I'd see where it went. The minute she came in gave me a quick kiss and then we held eachother a while. My son was watching TV in the bedroom and she lay down and I rubbed her back. It felt great. Then she asked me to lay down next to her and said something to the effect of so this ball is rolling then? I said to slow down and she pressed me for why and I told her we never got through that transparency phase...she never let me see those phone records and I didn't trust her. She asked why I had to see them and I said because I need to know what the truth is about this ex. I said all this with hesitation because I was afraid she'd bolt again, turns out I'm the one bolting. She asked what period of time and I said the whole time (a year and a half since she moved out). She brokedown and said I'm going to see conversations but that's all they were. Maybe 7 of them, some RECENT, friendly stuff...no more than 10 minutes. No midnight calls or anything like that. I told her there was nothing to talk about. She cried, we talked a little more, and then I asked her to leave. Again, she's "assuring" me nothing happened but how am I supposed to believe this...?
Author don diego 78 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 Throughout our relationship, I always suspected I wasn't receiving 100%. My insecurities led to my belief that she was carrying a torch for someone (she had multiple relationships before me, I had one) and I brought a lot of drama, petty jealousy, and was accused of "living in her past" just for trying to make sense of the present/future. There came a point in the spring of 2009 where I had had enough and I wanted/needed answers. I installed a keylogger on our computer and began checking emails. She had recently begun hanging out with some old girlfriends from high school who were involved in affairs from what I heard. I was worried. Everything was fine for a month, then I found some poems that seemed to be describing an old flame in a dream. One day I told her I heard her saying someone else's name in her sleep and she seemed bothered but denied. I would say for the month or so that I was monitoring her emails I didn't see anything that said affair. As our relationship started to crumble for other reasons I continued checking her emails and finally discovered she had been chatting with the ex the day before moving out. I then went in her phone records online...checked the texts. There had been communication between the two with a brief lull while we went on vacation. Then it started up again as our relationship went to ****. Turns out she initiated the contact after I mentioned the name in her sleep...it was him she was dreaming about and she saw it as some "bad karma" that she wanted to deal with. Then it became "friendly" chats...the longest couple of calls were about 40 minutes. Everything was done in secret, behind my back. The email in which I discovered the contact was her telling her girlfriend how much his voice was turning her on in their conversations (emotional to physical>?) I contacted that ex at work and scared the crap out of him, when she found out she emailed both of us in the same email and even quoted what she had said to her girlfriends about his voice to "have everything out in the open." 3 months later we were hanging out, I went in her phone while she slept and found an email to her girlfriends in which she stated the following: I'm still in love with (me). I can't deny it. We had that major fight this weekend and a small one yesterday and in the solitude of Sunday with (our son) and the rain, I accepted the negatives I bring into all of my relationships, this one included. (He) is already claiming his so it's nice to hear him speak, now I wait for his actions. Watching (our son) on Sunday play made me realize that (he) and I were a good couple on our good days and that the family we were creating was a beautiful one. (Ex's name), the name, is an illusion, a fantasy, and I need to stop living like a 17 yr old girl with stars in my eyes and see what's before me before it's too late. (Name of another male friend), or insert name of hot ass here, is another form of ego stroking illusion. (Again referring to me) is looking good, swaggering more confidently and he's asked me to date him, to allow him to court me and I've said Yes! Somehow she convinced me that I was reading the above wrong when I got upset. I didn't understand how her lies to me about the ex not meaning anything and there was never any intention etc. with him could lead to the above statement a couple of months later. She also admitted they had spoken over the phone that summer yet again to laugh at the whole thing. After a difficult summer we agreed to move in together, did couples counseling before she bailed as pressure was on to see the phone records (I always assumed it was that.) Our interactions were better but we had a few moments, mostly fed by my fresh insecurity/suspicion (did I have a right at this point?) Then came me trying to break into her phone account and find information I felt I needed to move on. I was kicked out and it'll be like a year and a half this July. I feel like this long narrative is telling me everything I need to know but I am in denial. I have a strong sense of pride and honor but at the same time I want to be humble for love. She's sitting across from me crying about how she has no self-worth and is accusing me of making everything about this ex when I had my issues too...I acknowledge them, went to therapy for a year while she has done 0 therapy. Wasn't it a bad decision of hers to continue "friendly chats" with this man after all we went through...even if it is all that happened (which I still doubt)? I'm lost.
Recommended Posts