eerie_reverie Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) So here I am... 25 and once again, single. I feel like I'm constantly getting entangled with guys I don't have much respect for, based on how they lead their lives. In the beginning, I'm good at rationalizing away the behaviors I should know by now bother me, but I've come to realize, it's cruel not to consult this list before getting involved. With any of these deal breakers present, it will never work out. Here they are... 1. I don't trust him It's a gut feeling and I'm going to start acknowledging it. 2. He is less bright than me Call me shallow but I don't do well in relationships where I feel like I'm significantly smarter. I don't THINK it should matter so long as we have stuff in common, and I have dated plenty of guys based on this philosophy, but at the end of the day, it matters to me. No matter how well a guy treats me, having this upper hand, in close quarters, brings out the bully in me. I don't like wearing pants in relationships and being smarter (and not laid back at all) is a surefire way to get them. 3. He has a girlfriend Should be obvious, right? Well, in the last 3 or 4 years, almost all of my relationships started out as friendships... with guys who were involved with other girls. I rationalized in each of those instances that it was more complicated than my being a home wrecker (all those guys pursued me) but it just doesn't make for a memorable or happy start. I don't like being the other woman, not to mention it's hard to trust someone after that. 4. He takes bad care of himself (smokes, drinks too much, eats badly, or doesn't exercise) These bad habits cause me to look down on a dude. 5. He is financially irresponsible I make a good income, have no debt, and am always trying to save more money... I think it's fair for me to want someone with similar values. 6. He is a wimp Not being able to say no is not the same thing as being nice. 7. He aims low I don't care what his passion may be, but he needs to have one. I can't be with someone who just ambles through life, enjoying it. Life is meant to be made a mark on. 8. The sex sucks Self-explanatory Are these realistic? Are there other aspects I'm missing? Edited February 28, 2011 by eerie_reverie
allina Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Totally realistic. It comes down to the fact that if you don't like and respect him as a person you sure as hell won't like and respect him as a boyfriend.
Lilmisus Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Completely agree. All these are great points and every girl should follow them but we all don't. Actually..anyone can follow this list really. One major one for me, that I don't even have to think about: No drugs. At all. Even if it's a little weed every other weekend with the boys, I don't want it around me at all. So many lives around me have been ruined due to drugs and drug dealing, and I don't want my name to be next on the list. If I even have a feeling that the dude does anything, it doesn't matter how great our chemistry is, he's gone.
Author eerie_reverie Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Totally realistic. It comes down to the fact that if you don't like and respect him as a person you sure as hell won't like and respect him as a boyfriend. Thanks allina! I think part of my problem is that I can LIKE someone a whole lot without agreeing with their choices. My list would not be deal-breakers at all for a friendship, but with a relationship, I'm looking for more than someone who's a good time.
Author eerie_reverie Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Completely agree. All these are great points and every girl should follow them but we all don't. Actually..anyone can follow this list really. One major one for me, that I don't even have to think about: No drugs. At all. Even if it's a little weed every other weekend with the boys, I don't want it around me at all. So many lives around me have been ruined due to drugs and drug dealing, and I don't want my name to be next on the list. If I even have a feeling that the dude does anything, it doesn't matter how great our chemistry is, he's gone. I vape a lotta weed on the weekend so that's not a big deal to me given the right context, but I definitely would not date anyone who did hard drugs.
purplehouse Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 reading this thread is making me wonder about the guy i've been dating/talking to. I seem to be able to justify things but deep down i know i don't really like some of the things i am justifying but i do like him so it's hard.... this guy is unemployed but has been caring for his elderley father (i think his father actually drinks too much) but i justify it because after all he is looking after his dad and beside that he is qualified in a trade, went to uni after school, has been in the navy when he was younger, has also earnt good money building patois. But he is unemployed and our get togethers are looking to consisit of having a coffee at my place, going to a lookout etc... no huge deal but it would be nice to go out for a movie (i'd pay my own anyway!) but i don't think his budget allows for that at the moment. Oh and he has started studying for his B Sc Environmental health which i think is great and shows direction. A positive thing obviously! He smokes weed but it's 'recreational and he doesn't depend on it or anything. But i justify it because i know a lot of people who smoke privately at home and it's not an issue really except i am not really a smoker myself.... He is really attractive to me but slightly out of shape due to caring for his dad....but he 'wants to get fit again'. Oh and he is bankrupt because when he and his ex sold their house things went bad and he had no other option. soooo how am i doing???
Els Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Do you really need to justify your choice to people? You evidently, evidently aren't interested in him. So you made the correct decision to leave. Are you expecting people to agree with your dealbreakers to validate your choice? I agree with some of them, whereas I don't with others. But does it matter? Yours are yours, mine is mine. Anytime a guy crosses yours, you can and should leave. I don't even know why you went 6 months with him to begin with, or even 3 dates. All the things you listed seem pretty noticeable by date 3, really.
Lilmisus Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I vape a lotta weed on the weekend so that's not a big deal to me given the right context, but I definitely would not date anyone who did hard drugs. Yeah, to each their own, totally. And don't get me wrong, it's not that I have lower respect for someone who does any sort of drugs, I just don't want my future to be messed up over one guy. It happened to my boyfriend's sister, since she was driving with her boyfriend, and he had a bunch of stuff on him (ecstasy pills, weed, heroin, a gun, etc. He was also a dealer) and made me realize that drugs are a no way, no how, no can do for me. I don't want to be looking at 15 to life like she is over something like that.
Lilmisus Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 reading this thread is making me wonder about the guy i've been dating/talking to. I seem to be able to justify things but deep down i know i don't really like some of the things i am justifying but i do like him so it's hard.... this guy is unemployed but has been caring for his elderley father (i think his father actually drinks too much) but i justify it because after all he is looking after his dad and beside that he is qualified in a trade, went to uni after school, has been in the navy when he was younger, has also earnt good money building patois. But he is unemployed and our get togethers are looking to consisit of having a coffee at my place, going to a lookout etc... no huge deal but it would be nice to go out for a movie (i'd pay my own anyway!) but i don't think his budget allows for that at the moment. Oh and he has started studying for his B Sc Environmental health which i think is great and shows direction. A positive thing obviously! He smokes weed but it's 'recreational and he doesn't depend on it or anything. But i justify it because i know a lot of people who smoke privately at home and it's not an issue really except i am not really a smoker myself.... He is really attractive to me but slightly out of shape due to caring for his dad....but he 'wants to get fit again'. Oh and he is bankrupt because when he and his ex sold their house things went bad and he had no other option. soooo how am i doing??? The whole "Soooo how am I doing???" question at the bottom makes me wonder if you're looking for a serious opinion here or are being sarcastic or what. I've learned that you should never have to make excuses or justify someones actions if they aren't satisfying you. And honestly, a guy who has enough money to smoke weed and not take me out every once in a while is a deal breaker itself. I mean come on. You guys don't go to the movies every once in a while even?? Not even matinee movie times? Come on now. I couldn't stand that, and I've even paid for my boyfriend and I to go out plenty of times because he can't afford it and I get sick and tired of just sitting around doing nothing. The way I see it is that I really want to do something, he has no money I do...so why the hell not? This is the 21st century, women can pay for dates too now you know. Honestly, this guy can do more with his life right now than just take care of his dad. He can get a part-time job and he can make at least a little extra money - enough to take you out once in a while at least or even work his way out of bankruptcy. Just because he has some good points doesn't mean he's not a loser. He doesn't seem to have a whole lot of ambition due to the whole not working thing and allowing his father and him to spend money where it doesn't need to be going - weed and alcohol. Earn it, save it, and then I'll reconsider if I think this guy is a loser and actually worth your time.
purplehouse Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Sorry, the how am i doing ? was me asking what others thought. Came out sarcastic probably but i am genuinely interested in others thoughts. I don't mind paying if we were to go out somewhere, i guess i'm used to going dutch in the early days and i don't want him to feel uncomfortable for not being able to pay. Is that silly? He has been volunteering in a local shop for a few months because he was getting depressed being a full time carer and wanted to do something. He has always worked so i am just hoping he hasn't got 'comfortable' not working. although he is now studying... Do you think i should offer to pay for a movie or something? I did suggest it once but he said he is happy to have a coffee together. So maybe he doesn't want me paying?? But you're right, if he can afford weed ( i don't know how often he smokes) then sure;y he can afford a dinner or something. I am like the OP, i hate wearing the pants and like the guy to take some control with things.
GivenUp0083 Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 2. He is less bright than me LOL :laugh: This is too funny
Emilia Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I have the same list OP pretty much. Seems basic, yet it's hard to find them
SmileFace Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I don't like lists. However, not having one isn't helping me either. I don't know, if I wanted a partner to fit in certain box - I would have made one,shrugs.
TheBigQuestion Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 So here I am... 25 and once again, single. I feel like I'm constantly getting entangled with guys I don't have much respect for, based on how they lead their lives. In the beginning, I'm good at rationalizing away the behaviors I should know by now bother me, but I've come to realize, it's cruel not to consult this list before getting involved. With any of these deal breakers present, it will never work out. Here they are... 1. I don't trust him It's a gut feeling and I'm going to start acknowledging it. 2. He is less bright than me Call me shallow but I don't do well in relationships where I feel like I'm significantly smarter. I don't THINK it should matter so long as we have stuff in common, and I have dated plenty of guys based on this philosophy, but at the end of the day, it matters to me. No matter how well a guy treats me, having this upper hand, in close quarters, brings out the bully in me. I don't like wearing pants in relationships and being smarter (and not laid back at all) is a surefire way to get them. 3. He has a girlfriend Should be obvious, right? Well, in the last 3 or 4 years, almost all of my relationships started out as friendships... with guys who were involved with other girls. I rationalized in each of those instances that it was more complicated than my being a home wrecker (all those guys pursued me) but it just doesn't make for a memorable or happy start. I don't like being the other woman, not to mention it's hard to trust someone after that. 4. He takes bad care of himself (smokes, drinks too much, eats badly, or doesn't exercise) These bad habits cause me to look down on a dude. 5. He is financially irresponsible I make a good income, have no debt, and am always trying to save more money... I think it's fair for me to want someone with similar values. 6. He is a wimp Not being able to say no is not the same thing as being nice. 7. He aims low I don't care what his passion may be, but he needs to have one. I can't be with someone who just ambles through life, enjoying it. Life is meant to be made a mark on. 8. The sex sucks Self-explanatory Are these realistic? Are there other aspects I'm missing? Honestly, some of these red flags are completely illegitimate because they say more about your own character and your own behavioral inclinations than they say about anyone you date. You say you become a bully when you feel like you're smarter than someone you're dating? In what sense are you smarter? And if you're a bully, regardless of how you enter such a state, that's your own behavioral issue, not a character flaw in the guy. Chances are if you think you can start bullying someone because you think you're smarter than them, there's a good chance you subconsciously find other reasons to bully people too. Same goes for dating guys with girlfriends. It's good that you've decided to avoid this situation in the future, but again, that's not on the guys you date, it's you. You would have been better off framing this thread along the lines of "I messed up. Here's how I won't mess up in the future." Also, expecting people to be college graduates or current graduate students and not have any debt is also increasingly unrealistic. You're shooting yourself in the foot if debt is a real issue for you.
Jannah Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Thanks allina! I think part of my problem is that I can LIKE someone a whole lot without agreeing with their choices. My list would not be deal-breakers at all for a friendship, but with a relationship, I'm looking for more than someone who's a good time. If you are looking for more than someone who is a "good time", your best bet would be to date men who aren't already taken. Because it **might** explain this.... 1. I don't trust him It's a gut feeling and I'm going to start acknowledging it. How can you respect someone, let alone trust, when you don't respect yourself by allowing yourself to be some girl on the side? Whether or not these men pursue you, isn't the point. You should have enough respect for yourself and the other person's relationship by not getting involved with someone who is already taken. I think once you eliminate this type of relationship, you can begin to focus on men better suited for you.
Author eerie_reverie Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 basic? basic? The female gender has sky-high requiremnts. 2. better be Ivy league educated. 4. better be a top notch dresser and ultra fit 5. better make six figures 6. better be agressive 8. better be sexually experienced or seasoned. 1,3,7 reasonable. unrealistic list for men. Why is it unrealistic to have these requirements if I bring the same to the table?
Author eerie_reverie Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Honestly, some of these red flags are completely illegitimate because they say more about your own character and your own behavioral inclinations than they say about anyone you date. You say you become a bully when you feel like you're smarter than someone you're dating? In what sense are you smarter? And if you're a bully, regardless of how you enter such a state, that's your own behavioral issue, not a character flaw in the guy. Chances are if you think you can start bullying someone because you think you're smarter than them, there's a good chance you subconsciously find other reasons to bully people too. I don't know what you think I mean by bullying. I'm not going around calling him names, or putting him down in any way. But when I feel that I'm the better decision-maker, I start checking in on his choices, and attempting to boss him around in the instances we don't agree. The types of guys this applies to actually seem to enjoy this. Same goes for dating guys with girlfriends. It's good that you've decided to avoid this situation in the future, but again, that's not on the guys you date, it's you. Yah, that's on me. But I don't see why I can't view that as a dealbreaker. Also, expecting people to be college graduates or current graduate students and not have any debt is also increasingly unrealistic. You're shooting yourself in the foot if debt is a real issue for you. It isn't debt that's an issue, so much as how it was aquired, and what he is doing to get out of it. Unfortunately, I have seen too many examples where the debt signifies apathy / irresponsibility/ fickleness.
Author eerie_reverie Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 If you are looking for more than someone who is a "good time", your best bet would be to date men who aren't already taken. Because it **might** explain this.... How can you respect someone, let alone trust, when you don't respect yourself by allowing yourself to be some girl on the side? Whether or not these men pursue you, isn't the point. You should have enough respect for yourself and the other person's relationship by not getting involved with someone who is already taken. I think once you eliminate this type of relationship, you can begin to focus on men better suited for you. This thread isn't about the pros and cons of being the other woman. I already realize I need to stop getting involved with taken men. But thanks.
Els Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Not saying that I agree with her dealbreakers. But I find it funny how a man can say 'it's unrealistic to not be in debt!' but expect a gf to be in top physical shape. Sure it's hard to not be in debt... you absolutely HAVE to buy that new car, that cool phone, eh? No, you don't. If you're a graduate, you should be able to pay back student loans and maintain a modest lifestyle with the average graduate pay. If you're not a graduate, you shouldn't have any outstanding loans at all and should still not have trouble maintaining a modest lifestyle with your pay. Expecting sympathy for being in debt or failing college (barring extreme circumstances ie having to support your family, etc) is worse than expecting sympathy for being overweight IMO. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the OP wanting a debtless graduate when she herself is one. Edited March 1, 2011 by Elswyth
TheBigQuestion Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Not saying that I agree with her dealbreakers. But I find it funny how a man can say 'it's unrealistic to not be in debt!' but expect a gf to be in top physical shape. Sure it's hard to not be in debt... you absolutely HAVE to buy that new car, that cool phone, eh? No, you don't. If you're a graduate, you should be able to pay back student loans and maintain a modest lifestyle with the average graduate pay. If you're not a graduate, you shouldn't have any outstanding loans at all and should still not have trouble maintaining a modest lifestyle with your pay. Expecting sympathy for being in debt or failing college (barring extreme circumstances ie having to support your family, etc) is worse than expecting sympathy for being overweight IMO. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the OP wanting a debtless graduate when she herself is one. I'm going to do what 90% of female posters do on LS and internalize your post as if it's a personal slight against me, even though it most likely isn't. Perhaps there's a generation gap here, but maybe you aren't aware of the plight of most recent college graduates. The bottom line is that full time, full benefits, half-decent paying entry level jobs are EXTREMELY hard to come by. Field is mostly irrelevant. Very few of my friends, most of whom graduated in the past 2 years, have a job with health care benefits, let alone a job that would allow them to make any meaningful payments on their debts. The economy sucks. Unfortunately, for most recent college grads, the economy did not suck when they entered college. So where does this leave a lot of young people these days? A whole bunch of college loans to pay back while struggling to make ends meet in a way that is classically blue collar. Or take my personal situation. I technically am in a significant amount of debt because I'm in law school. Don't bother dating anyone who attends any kind of professional school (law, medicine, pharmacy, etc) because unless he or she is a trust fund baby, chances are they are in significant debt, and the amount of debt will be quite burdensome for a few years after graduation too. Granted, my parents have agreed to take care of a huge portion of my undergrad debt, but I'm on my own in law school. Also, it IS easier and cheaper to be in good physical shape than it is to stay out of student debt. Then again, I never made the asinine comment with which you opened your post. To be honest, this exchange wasn't entirely necessary because OP hit the nail on the head. Having debt is not the issue. It's whether or not the debtee is actively doing anything to get rid of it. Edited March 1, 2011 by TheBigQuestion
SteveC80 Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 women lose respect for a man if hes not better then her in status education and income
makelemonade1974 Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Now I do take issue with the smarter thing - but I think maybe it's just how the OP worded it. A man needs to be able to have an intelligent conversation and at least be somewhat educated to hold my interest. I don't think it's good to have a list. I usually go for artsy types but have been dating a guy who is not artsy or even has a BA. He's really into backpacking (so am I), really sweet and kind, and I think a genuine all-around good guy. You can't go by a list, because everybody will fall short. The word dealbreaker, to me, is a little stronger than you are using it here. For me, a dealbreaker would be something like 1) they don't treat you with respect and kindness; 2) they are selfish and immature; 3) they lie about stuff, etc. etc. Plenty of men who have bad spending habits, smoke, drink, and don't work out are sweetheart guys. Money is just money. People need to realize that and get over it. Money are little pieces of paper that make the capitalism machine go vroom vroom. It's not a judge of someone's value as a human being.
Author eerie_reverie Posted March 1, 2011 Author Posted March 1, 2011 Plenty of men who have bad spending habits, smoke, drink, and don't work out are sweetheart guys. Yah. I've dated tons of them. It doesn't work for me because I resent them these particular bad habits. I start to lose respect for them for not taking better care of themselves. Money is just money. People need to realize that and get over it. Money are little pieces of paper that make the capitalism machine go vroom vroom. It's not a judge of someone's value as a human being. Sure. Money is just money. But being responsible with it demonstrates forethought. When I see someone who got in debt for no particular reason throwing it away, I think resentful thoughts like, am I going to be the only one who cares about and plans for our children's futures? You're 30 years old and all the bad decisions you've made will mean you're fcvked till you're 45. And then I can't see myself with the person. Sweetheart or not.
makelemonade1974 Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 You're jumping the gun if you foresee resentment before you even meet the guy or get married. idk I've been married and am not sure I'd do it again. What stinks about the whole dating scene is it feels like a job interview or something. Online dating enables this I think. Whatever happened to plain old chemistry and getting to know someone? And plenty of people are in debt - especially if they have graduate degrees. It doesn't mean you can't have children and they can't have futures. Cripes, when two academics, doctors, or attorneys marry, they are often looking at 200,000+ in combined student loan debt. Doesn't mean they are bad people or shouldn't reproduce.
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