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What Causes Doubts?


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Posted
He withdrew after the fights.

 

You've mentioned this several times zengirl and I think maybe this is at the core of what is bothering you, but I really must ask don't you think withdrawing emotionally after fight to a certain degree is normal? It sounds almost if neither of you can be confident in your relationship after a fight. You bring up the possibility of breaking up looking for him to deny the possibility outright and for whatever reason he doesn't and then you are both upset. Why don't the both of you just take that possibility off the table? To me, there is no point in bringing up breaking up unless the party bringing it up is doing so. Looking for validation will only lead to trouble especially after a fight.

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Posted
So the misunderstandings create frustration and fights, and that causes him to withdraw again and again. This seems to be what concerns you most, that he withdraws.

 

Now he has walked away, but has come back?

 

Yes.

 

You've mentioned this several times zengirl and I think maybe this is at the core of what is bothering you, but I really must ask don't you think withdrawing emotionally after fight to a certain degree is normal? It sounds almost if neither of you can be confident in your relationship after a fight. You bring up the possibility of breaking up looking for him to deny the possibility outright and for whatever reason he doesn't and then you are both upset. Why don't the both of you just take that possibility off the table? To me, there is no point in bringing up breaking up unless the party bringing it up is doing so. Looking for validation will only lead to trouble especially after a fight.

 

Withdrawing emotionally after a fight sounds normal, but these are fights that are way blown out of proportion. With the sex fight, even though I felt rejected, I made an effort to still be affectionate and energetic that evening. I guess that's what I do. I would love to take the possibility of breaking up off the table, but now that it's happened, that seems impossible! So, that's where I am.

Posted

the majority of all fights are results of miscommunication (relationships aside).

 

Secondly, give him a second chance? I feel like you never admit to doing anything wrong in your relationships. Probably pretty frustrating for him. I also have found (across your post history) that if anyone has a different opinion of something than you do, its either your way or the highway.

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Posted
the majority of all fights are results of miscommunication (relationships aside).

 

Secondly, give him a second chance? I feel like you never admit to doing anything wrong in your relationships. Probably pretty frustrating for him. I also have found (across your post history) that if anyone has a different opinion of something than you do, its either your way or the highway.

 

It's definitely not my way or the highway. I have no issues with smart people who disagree with me -- I like them immensely. Doesn't mean I agree with them any more. Some things here might be my way or the highway (such as if you sleep around but think a woman is a whore for doing so), sure, as are other things, like intolerance towards gays or racism etc. But very few things are. I didn't kick this guy to the curb. He left.

 

I've admitted to the things I've done wrong here. However, it's not me who broke the relationship. He walked out. He wants back in. To me, that's not a given when you walk out, so it's my choice whether or not to give it another go. I'm unsure.

Posted

Alright so I read some of your posts.

 

It's fine to be upset. I tell people I'm upset when I'm upset, and about what. Usually things get settled after that. Last time I got upset I said I"m upset to x persons, said what I wanted done, and why it upset me. Now I feel fine about it. (fwiw I was upset because we are organizing a fundraiser. Say we plan to make $5k, well they were totally fine with spending $2.5k on costs. I was not and find it morally repulsive. I just stated to them (as nicely as possible) that I didn't agree with this decision and it was (frankly) upsetting to me that this was happening.)

 

I'm pretty sure you aren't great at being assertive. I went through maybe 3 posts looking for one specific thing. How often do you talk about "we" versus "him" and "me" and in what context are you using these terms.

 

We have communication issues. We get in fights often.

 

He is a bad communicator. I told him he's lackluster many times and he agrees.

 

I am bad at (I didn't see anything here).

 

I am very good at communicating with everyone else yadayada.

 

Basically if the subject is about we, then you are fine with "we" being in the wrong. No problem with responsibility.

 

If the subject is "him" then there's no problem with "him" being at fault. No problem with responsibility there I guess :p (although sounds like you can be overcritical at times).

 

If the subject is you. Well have you admitted to anything you've done wrong so far?

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Posted
Alright so I read some of your posts.

 

It's fine to be upset. I tell people I'm upset when I'm upset, and about what. Usually things get settled after that. Last time I got upset I said I"m upset to x persons, said what I wanted done, and why it upset me. Now I feel fine about it. (fwiw I was upset because we are organizing a fundraiser. Say we plan to make $5k, well they were totally fine with spending $2.5k on costs. I was not and find it morally repulsive. I just stated to them (as nicely as possible) that I didn't agree with this decision and it was (frankly) upsetting to me that this was happening.)

 

I'm pretty sure you aren't great at being assertive. I went through maybe 3 posts looking for one specific thing. How often do you talk about "we" versus "him" and "me" and in what context are you using these terms.

 

We have communication issues. We get in fights often.

 

He is a bad communicator. I told him he's lackluster many times and he agrees.

 

I am bad at (I didn't see anything here).

 

I am very good at communicating with everyone else yadayada.

 

Basically if the subject is about we, then you are fine with "we" being in the wrong. No problem with responsibility.

 

If the subject is "him" then there's no problem with "him" being at fault. No problem with responsibility there I guess :p (although sounds like you can be overcritical at times).

 

If the subject is you. Well have you admitted to anything you've done wrong so far?

 

You clearly haven't read all my posts. I have admitted to many destructive (I don't know that they're "wrong" nor do I know anything he did was "wrong" either, really, but destructive to the relationship) things I've contributed to. Pushing at a bad point. Being negative at others. However, there is nothing I can see that I can fix --- or I would have fixed it --- that would change our dynamic. That is where my frustration comes from.

Posted
Pushing at a bad point. Being negative at others. However, there is nothing I can see that I can fix --- or I would have fixed it --- that would change our dynamic. That is where my frustration comes from.

 

What about asking him if there's anything he feels you could work on?

 

And what about you: what would you like him to do change? What could he do to fix the dynamic in the relationship?

Posted
You clearly haven't read all my posts. I have admitted to many destructive (I don't know that they're "wrong" nor do I know anything he did was "wrong" either, really, but destructive to the relationship) things I've contributed to. Pushing at a bad point. Being negative at others. However, there is nothing I can see that I can fix --- or I would have fixed it --- that would change our dynamic. That is where my frustration comes from.

 

People generally mean well. When one person upsets another, it's usually a lack of self-awareness at how or what they are doing. So I'm not surprised that you don't know what needs to be "fixed" and that's where the frustration comes from. Does he tell you things you are doing wrong? Is he comfortable telling you things that upset him?

 

Again though, it's a slippery slope. And I haven't really heard too much about how you started fights, how you contributed to the escalation of the fights, and why has he chosen withdrawing rather than coming to a consensus. If two people are fighting they are both at fault, and it's a question of what they did to upset someone else. I just don't hear enough of (I did x and that made him angry, then I did y and that made him more angry, etc. etc.).

 

Finally "Pushing at a bad point. Being negative at others." Isn't exactly high level analysis of the things you've done wrong.

 

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Mistakes I've made lately. I (jokingly) told nikoli he better show up to the meeting tomorrow morning or I would "punch him in the face or something". I was joking and laughing, but honestly that isn't very cool of me. Sure I was upset they didn't show up to two group meetings, but I really shouldn't have said something like that. I sent an email saying I was unhappy about going to two group meetings by myself (fair enough) and that I apologize for not being my nicest when I called him last.

 

I don't plan on focusing on this kind of thing though. I want that gruop to focus on getting the project done by friday.

 

I had an interview and didn't directly say I'd fire someone if I suspected they were drinking on the job. I said I'd probably want to see the guy in AA, but he would likely get fired for doing that sort of thing. I think the interviewer wanted a much more black/white answer. I also realized if I'm interviewing with an engineer I should gear my answers more to black+white.

 

The common theme is that a lot of the stuff I just admitted to is ugly. It isn't nice. It's me at my worst, and represents how I act maybe 1% of any given day. And I actively work on improving that. But hey, everyone has bad moments, and I just accept my bad moments for what they are and move on. I don't do anything terrible (like drinking on the job, getting arrested, etc. etc.) and that means a lot. I also always mean well, deep down. Like I feel bad about talking to someone like that on the phone (even if it was joking). The mature thing to do would be to politely (and nicely) tell nikoli we can't have this sort of thing continuing. They have to go to meetings and they have to finish the work they say they are going to do.

 

Anyhow. Be the change you see in other people. Start living that and tell me you have relationship issues :p.

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Posted
What about asking him if there's anything he feels you could work on?

 

And what about you: what would you like him to do change? What could he do to fix the dynamic in the relationship?

 

I have, and he cannot manage to communicate that. Part of what he does not communicate are his own needs. For instance, if he doesn't want to get together when we have plans, he doesn't communicate this, but he might be harder to reach or seem distant. Then, I learn, there was something he wanted/needed to do, but didn't tell me. Or sometimes we'll have plans and he'll try to escape to do an errand DURING our plans without telling me. This is an area of communication that frustrates me as well, mostly because it winds up making HIM unhappy. If he'd just say, "Hey, I have a busy week, can we skip getting together this weekend," I'd have no issues.

 

I don't know what he could do except be better at

(a) Asserting his needs

(b) Threatening less during a disagreement (not making it feel like it does permanent damage to the relationship)/taking it less personally

© Addressing his feelings instead of withdrawing OR at the very least giving me some kind of comfort that when he withdraws he's just recharging

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Posted
People generally mean well. When one person upsets another, it's usually a lack of self-awareness at how or what they are doing. So I'm not surprised that you don't know what needs to be "fixed" and that's where the frustration comes from. Does he tell you things you are doing wrong? Is he comfortable telling you things that upset him?

 

Again though, it's a slippery slope. And I haven't really heard too much about how you started fights, how you contributed to the escalation of the fights, and why has he chosen withdrawing rather than coming to a consensus. If two people are fighting they are both at fault, and it's a question of what they did to upset someone else. I just don't hear enough of (I did x and that made him angry, then I did y and that made him more angry, etc. etc.).

 

Finally "Pushing at a bad point. Being negative at others." Isn't exactly high level analysis of the things you've done wrong.

 

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Mistakes I've made lately. I (jokingly) told nikoli he better show up to the meeting tomorrow morning or I would "punch him in the face or something". I was joking and laughing, but honestly that isn't very cool of me. Sure I was upset they didn't show up to two group meetings, but I really shouldn't have said something like that. I sent an email saying I was unhappy about going to two group meetings by myself (fair enough) and that I apologize for not being my nicest when I called him last.

 

I don't plan on focusing on this kind of thing though. I want that gruop to focus on getting the project done by friday.

 

I had an interview and didn't directly say I'd fire someone if I suspected they were drinking on the job. I said I'd probably want to see the guy in AA, but he would likely get fired for doing that sort of thing. I think the interviewer wanted a much more black/white answer. I also realized if I'm interviewing with an engineer I should gear my answers more to black+white.

 

The common theme is that a lot of the stuff I just admitted to is ugly. It isn't nice. It's me at my worst, and represents how I act maybe 1% of any given day. And I actively work on improving that. But hey, everyone has bad moments, and I just accept my bad moments for what they are and move on. I don't do anything terrible (like drinking on the job, getting arrested, etc. etc.) and that means a lot. I also always mean well, deep down. Like I feel bad about talking to someone like that on the phone (even if it was joking). The mature thing to do would be to politely (and nicely) tell nikoli we can't have this sort of thing continuing. They have to go to meetings and they have to finish the work they say they are going to do.

 

Anyhow. Be the change you see in other people. Start living that and tell me you have relationship issues :p.

 

Yeah, see I don't do really bad things anymore. And when I do, I address them right away. So, there's no wondering about its impact on a message board. I am self-aware, and that's why there's not much more I can change on the "me" side. I've already done all that. If I was too late with some of it, so be it, but I don't see what your random and vague criticisms of me really do to provide insight. They don't. Your posts don't really address the issues at hand at all . . . I don't live an unexamined life by any means. If you have insight into a particular situation, feel free to share it, but a general criticism of, "Oh, it must be your fault" seems silly.

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Posted
Well you have two-thousand-something posts.:laugh:

 

I meant in this thread. He addressed very little about the actual situation and seemed to be responding more to how he's run across me in other threads.

Posted
I don't know what he could do except be better at

(a) Asserting his needs

(b) Threatening less during a disagreement (not making it feel like it does permanent damage to the relationship)/taking it less personally

© Addressing his feelings instead of withdrawing OR at the very least giving me some kind of comfort that when he withdraws he's just recharging

 

These seem like things you need from him, have you told him about these things zengirl?

Posted
Yeah, see I don't do really bad things anymore. And when I do, I address them right away. So, there's no wondering about its impact on a message board. I am self-aware, and that's why there's not much more I can change on the "me" side. I've already done all that. If I was too late with some of it, so be it, but I don't see what your random and vague criticisms of me really do to provide insight. They don't. Your posts don't really address the issues at hand at all . . . I don't live an unexamined life by any means. If you have insight into a particular situation, feel free to share it, but a general criticism of, "Oh, it must be your fault" seems silly.

 

Someone who is generally selfaware would be a very rare and good person. I highly highly doubt you are totally selfaware. I know I'm not. I know very few people who are (for that matter). Heck I can't think of anyone haha.

 

Never do anything wrong. Buuuuuullllshiiiitttttt. Never admit to doing anything wrong, ok that I can believe.

 

How could I provide insight into your situation? I have no doubt the most important issues/worst things you did you aren't sharing. If I don't know the actual problems, how can I solve anything? All you've given us is a bunch of stuff he's doing wrong. I'm not talking to him!

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Posted
These seem like things you need from him, have you told him about these things zengirl?

 

I have told him (a) and ©. I did not really say much about (b) as it is more of an issue now. I have not spoken to him, really seriously, since he asked to fix things up again. I told him we would talk when I came over to exchange stuff towards the end of next week. That it was not out of the question but we both had a lot to think about.

 

I want to do an exercise where we both come up with what we view as a "solid" relationship but I'm afraid that will stress him out.

Posted
Yeah, see I don't do really bad things anymore. And when I do, I address them right away. So, there's no wondering about its impact on a message board. I am self-aware, and that's why there's not much more I can change on the "me" side. I've already done all that. If I was too late with some of it, so be it, but I don't see what your random and vague criticisms of me really do to provide insight. They don't. Your posts don't really address the issues at hand at all . . . I don't live an unexamined life by any means. If you have insight into a particular situation, feel free to share it, but a general criticism of, "Oh, it must be your fault" seems silly.

 

Ouch!

 

He wasn't saying, "Oh, it must be your fault." He's really trying to get you to express and share what you did and what could be done differently after there is a misunderstanding.

 

You don't have to share here. But going into the relationship again (if you decide you want to), it would be a good idea to tweak a couple of things on your side.

 

Unless everything is all his fault.

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Posted
Someone who is generally selfaware would be a very rare and good person. I highly highly doubt you are totally selfaware. I know I'm not. I know very few people who are (for that matter). Heck I can't think of anyone haha.

 

Never do anything wrong. Buuuuuullllshiiiitttttt. Never admit to doing anything wrong, ok that I can believe.

 

How could I provide insight into your situation? I have no doubt the most important issues/worst things you did you aren't sharing. If I don't know the actual problems, how can I solve anything? All you've given us is a bunch of stuff he's doing wrong. I'm not talking to him!

 

Where did I say I never do anything wrong? I just said that I've already worked to correct everything I could think of, that I'd done wrong, and knew how to correct. I also said which things I did wrong in the posts in this thread, which you don't really refer to specifically.

 

I've shared details of the situation. If your view is that I'm "hiding" all the important stuff, of course you cannot help. I don't know why you believe that. It seems to go back to your view of humanity itself as terribly flawed, based on this post.

Posted

you should do an exercise where you both admit to the things that you've done wrong/**** you've done that has made the relationship worse. Crapping on each other isn't going to help anything :p.

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Posted
Ouch!

 

He wasn't saying, "Oh, it must be your fault." He's really trying to get you to express and share what you did and what could be done differently after there is a misunderstanding.

 

You don't have to share here. But going into the relationship again (if you decide you want to), it would be a good idea to tweak a couple of things on your side.

 

Unless everything is all his fault.

 

I have already shared everything I can think of. And I have tweaked everything I can think of as well. Nor have I said everything was all the guy's fault. That's something y'all are saying.

 

Plus, dispatch follows me around on this site and argues with me in general.

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Posted
you should do an exercise where you both admit to the things that you've done wrong/**** you've done that has made the relationship worse. Crapping on each other isn't going to help anything :p.

 

That would be an exercise of crapping on each other. I'm not really interested in assigning blame at ALL --- except for his walking away and abandoning me in this relationship and then wanting to come back all of the sudden, I'm not upset with him. THAT I am upset about. I'll admit it. People shouldn't jerk others around like that.

Posted
Where did I say I never do anything wrong? I just said that I've already worked to correct everything I could think of, that I'd done wrong, and knew how to correct. I also said which things I did wrong in the posts in this thread, which you don't really refer to specifically.

 

I've shared details of the situation. If your view is that I'm "hiding" all the important stuff, of course you cannot help. I don't know why you believe that. It seems to go back to your view of humanity itself as terribly flawed, based on this post.

 

Why don't we use this as an example. I'm very nicely explaining some stuff that I see you doing incorrectly/trying to show you different methods to get the same means. Yet you are telling me my entire view of humanity is terribly flawed. ??? Haha imagine if you are doing something even semi-similar to him when you have arguments.

 

Prehaps one of the reasons he never critisizes you is that he can't handle the inevitable backlash and denial of responsibility? And if you think telling me my view of humanity is terribly flawed, is a nice/acceptable thing to say to someone, I don't know what to say to you :p.

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Posted
Why don't we use this as an example. I'm very nicely explaining some stuff that I see you doing incorrectly/trying to show you different methods to get the same means. Yet you are telling me my entire view of humanity is terribly flawed. ??? Haha imagine if you are doing something even semi-similar to him when you have arguments.

 

Prehaps one of the reasons he never critisizes you is that he can't handle the inevitable backlash and denial of responsibility? And if you think telling me my view of humanity is terribly flawed, is a nice/acceptable thing to say to someone, I don't know what to say to you :p.

 

First, I say you see people as terribly flawed (the people being flawed, not your view; sorry if the modifier was dangling; I didn't check) if it is your ASSUMPTION that someone would hide all the worst stuff.

 

Second, you and I have never seen eye to eye once on this board. We have argued many times. You have not addressed the specifics of my situation to the point where I'm even sure you READ it all, and you came in and posted all about you. How am I supposed to take that seriously?

 

Third, I've no desire to have any sort of a relationship with you, so of course I don't interact with you the way I would with someone I was dating. As per the "Second" item above, I don't particularly value your opinion as you've expressed on many threads ideas that really repulse me such as a fondness for PUA and controlling others.

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Posted
While I think your bf is more at fault, this comment here is a bit of a red flag. Everyone has stuff to work on, no matter how self aware they are or think they are, especially at your young age. An assertion to the contrary actually suggests a lack of self awareness. You can't work on yourself for a few years and poof you're done. Change is gradual and never really ends.

 

Of course, I have stuff to work on, and I've no issues with someone pointing out to me specifics. However, he said

 

Anyhow. Be the change you see in other people. Start living that and tell me you have relationship issues

 

Which implies that if I were more reflective, I wouldn't have relationship issues.

 

I also just don't like dispatch. I'll admit it. He's said some ugly and angry things to me in other threads as well.

Posted
That would be an exercise of crapping on each other. I'm not really interested in assigning blame at ALL --- except for his walking away and abandoning me in this relationship and then wanting to come back all of the sudden, I'm not upset with him. THAT I am upset about. I'll admit it. People shouldn't jerk others around like that.

 

hahaha I'm not picking on you. :p.

 

Anyhow now you have something you can almost deal with. Except it's still not in the "I" perspective enough. Something like

 

I was really upset when you left the relationship. I felt abandoned and unloved when you just got up and left and decided this wasn't worth working on.

 

Talk from the I perspective on things you are doing wrong. Don't tell him he's doing something wrong. You are doing enough wrong here that you shouldn't even really be contemplating the stuff he's doing wrong.

 

There's a buddhist story about this monk building a wall. He builds a 1000 brick wall and 2 bricks are out of place. He focuses on those two bricks and constantly wonders if he should blow up the wall, break the bricks, bulldoze the wall, or how he could possibly fix these bricks. He goes and asks another monk about it. The monk says there are 998 good bricks in that wall. If you only gave the 998 good bricks the same attention as the 2 bricks you don't like, everything would be peachykeen. The point is in life focus on what is going right, not what is going wrong. Don't think of all those times you fought, think of all the times you were happy. Don't focus on the negatives.

 

Eventually the monk met a professional brick layer and asked the pro about it. The pro said they still make mistakes, but they call them features and charge more for them.

 

The point is you will always make mistakes. It's better to accept the mistakes for what they are, learn from them, and move on. Denying they exist doesn't help you. Denying they could happen doesn't either.

 

Anyhow enough preaching from me :p.

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Posted
hahaha I'm not picking on you. :p.

 

Anyhow now you have something you can almost deal with. Except it's still not in the "I" perspective enough. Something like

 

I was really upset when you left the relationship. I felt abandoned and unloved when you just got up and left and decided this wasn't worth working on.

 

Yes, this is how I approach discussions with him, but right now I am angry about those things. That is why I'm not sure we have a 2nd chance. You're talking about the way to approach it productively if I were to move forward, and I don't disagree. I'm not sure I want to move forward. I'd love to move backward and make it all go away. But I'm not sure I can ever forgive his not being there.

 

Talk from the I perspective on things you are doing wrong. Don't tell him he's doing something wrong. You are doing enough wrong here that you shouldn't even really be contemplating the stuff he's doing wrong.

 

What precisely am I doing wrong? You still haven't said. I always use "I" statements in discussions with him. I'm aware at how people react to communication. "I" statements don't help with him. He's too smart for it, as am I when someone does it (so I get it).

 

There's a buddhist story about this monk building a wall. He builds a 1000 brick wall and 2 bricks are out of place. He focuses on those two bricks and constantly wonders if he should blow up the wall, break the bricks, bulldoze the wall, or how he could possibly fix these bricks. He goes and asks another monk about it. The monk says there are 998 good bricks in that wall. If you only gave the 998 good bricks the same attention as the 2 bricks you don't like, everything would be peachykeen. The point is in life focus on what is going right, not what is going wrong. Don't think of all those times you fought, think of all the times you were happy. Don't focus on the negatives.

 

I get that attitude, but this isn't 2 bricks in the wall to me. This is like he knocked down the wall and now wants me to help him rebuild it. That's how I feel at present. And as much as I love the wall, I'm not sure I can.

Posted
Yes, this is how I approach discussions with him, but right now I am angry about those things. That is why I'm not sure we have a 2nd chance. You're talking about the way to approach it productively if I were to move forward, and I don't disagree. I'm not sure I want to move forward. I'd love to move backward and make it all go away. But I'm not sure I can ever forgive his not being there.

 

What precisely am I doing wrong? You still haven't said. I always use "I" statements in discussions with him. I'm aware at how people react to communication. "I" statements don't help with him. He's too smart for it, as am I when someone does it (so I get it).

 

I get that attitude, but this isn't 2 bricks in the wall to me. This is like he knocked down the wall and now wants me to help him rebuild it. That's how I feel at present. And as much as I love the wall, I'm not sure I can.

 

Haha well a brick wall is pretty difficult to love. Especially if it has 2 bricks that are bad. God I couldn't handle that!

 

The second paragraph. You want me to tell you what you are doing wrong. Wouldn't that go against everything I just said? Be the change you see in others. Meaning if I see someone doing something I feel is "wrong" or they are messing up "x" I start thinking about whether I truly do those things right. Maybe your mistakes are a lack of you admitting them. Things you've done or said. Think of the things he's done wrong, the times he's done something that you felt wasn't right. What did you do that could have caused that?

 

Consider something you said earlier. This thread is about me and all you did was come in here and talk about your problems. Haha well doesn't that make sense for my ideals? I don't believe in solving your problems. Although I truly hope you solve as many of them as possible. I believe in solving my own problems, and then prehaps people can take the important things I learned from any given experience and incorporate them into their own lives. So yeah, I talked about times that I was upset for how to deal with being upset. I can only get you to my level of emotional control. It's up to you to exceed that. I can't come in here and pretend I'm god and tell you all the answers. I'm not god. These are the ideals I live by and I'm pretty happy.

 

Is this a thread about your problems? Or is it a thread about his problems and "the relationships" problems? Think about that.

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