Stuck in Limbo

[SVessel]

Okay, so I really want to give a lot of applicable details but I don't want to leave it all hanging out there... I did get a premium subscription if anyone is willing to PM for the whole story. I think I'd feel best about that.

 

I have to decide whether to return to my marriage or move forward with the divorce and the relationship I am in... The relationship I am in did start when I was married and not separated - but it was not in secret. (My husband had insisted on a poly relationship in the past, albeit to my protestations.) Likewise, all parties are aware of exactly the decision I am making and what goes into it right now.

 

Unfortunately, while they are willing to wait, I've dragged it on for too long thinking it would suddenly come to me, feeling torn in both directions. Feeling awful at the devastation I cause either way. But I feel sick because what I am doing is not fair to anyone. It's self indulgent and downright abusive to each of them. It's not right.

 

I am in my mid 20's, my partner is in his early 40's, my husband is in his mid/late 30's. Been with husband for 7 years. Partner for 1.

 

The man I'm with does make me very happy. He has always treated me right, though we are more prone to jealousy issues with each other. He loves my daughter as if she were his own.

 

However, it doesn't make me happy to hear my child wanting her daddy... She misses him all the time, even with me trying to make sure there are lots more visits than standard, I don't want to give up time with her either. (Even with my partner doing more with her and giving her more than her dad, nothing can compare to an even adequate dad in a young child's eyes it seems) Thinking of holidays without her nauseates me. He says when she's with him all she wants to do is stay curled up in his lap the whole time. It doesn't make me happy to think of her life torn apart. My husband does make me laugh, albeit he is in general a more selfish person.

 

When I first moved out this wasn't an issue. She was younger and my husband spent very little time with her, and none without me not forced by me. When she was an infant he said he hated being a dad and thought about leaving. They got a lot more time together when I moved out and forged a much closer relationship, but more dedicated time together doesn't seem to replace the day to day simple things. My husband was happy when I suggested a divorce; had shortly before I did told me he didn't think he ever loved me as a woman, though he loved me as the mother of his child and thought I was a wonderful mother. He had refused for over a year to go to counseling for our problems.

 

I have a lot in common with my partner now, and almost nothing with my husband from a practical standpoint. I have somewhat more in common with my husband on philosophical issues, though my partner now is more likely to yield to my judgment - my husband never has and never will back down in his beliefs.

 

My husband now says he feels I've matured a lot in our separation and knows that we could be happy together. He says that both of us have people out there that are more suited to each other that we would be with if not for our daughter, but our daughter makes a huge difference and we owe it to her to try to be happy together... that we have honesty more than most and that we do make each other laugh. He also says if I don't come back he will tell my daughter I tore apart the family for another man. (Might be idle, it will not be the first time he has threatened me with what he knows will hurt me to get things to go his way.) He has promised a lot of change on his part, though he hasn't started on anything and says he's not obligated until I come back. (Except when it comes to our daughter. He's a much better father already)

 

There are a lot more details about how I got to where I am and other such things. I would love advice on what to do here, because I CAN'T be this person holding two people like this anymore. It is causing me to hate myself.

 

If it matters as it may come into play here, I grew up in an abusive house with parents with a very messed up marriage.

 

Please PM if you want all details to give more advice.... There are more relevent details and maybe irrelevent details that only feel so to me.... Things, though, I don't want here in public. I need answers or I wouldn't be here at all... I'm a little worried about just what I have posted but wasn't sure if it would be wholly inappropriate to not give some details with it being a forum, and stop me from getting any help at all...

 

Or of course you can respond to what is given with any general advice.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

I am posting in here because it feels like where the situation could be most recognized because of some of the nuances of it.

Edited February 27, 2011 by SVessel

[whichwayisup]

You need to put your childs needs first -- Joint custody. You can't just let your H have 'visits' once in a while and let the new man in your life be around her all the time. that isn't fair to your daughter. She loves and needs her daddy. Yes I'm sure you miss her when shes' not around, but this isn't only about you, it's about her and what is fair for her.

 

take time away from both men, be alone for a while and seek some counseling to help you figure this out.

[Distant78]

I strongly agree. You know she needs her father. Don't be a selfish parent and turn your relationship with her father ugly because if you do that she'll only resent you when she gets older, and you do not want that on your conscience. Mothers always do this and it solves nothing.

[SVessel]

You need to put your childs needs first -- Joint custody. You can't just let your H have 'visits' once in a while and let the new man in your life be around her all the time. that isn't fair to your daughter. She loves and needs her daddy. Yes I'm sure you miss her when shes' not around, but this isn't only about you, it's about her and what is fair for her.

 

take time away from both men, be alone for a while and seek some counseling to help you figure this out.

 

My husband doesn't want joint custody. He can't handle her for an extended period without me. Even for the visits (twice a week and one weekend day, more if requested) - he doesn't show up to pick her up until late to throw off her sleep schedule even though he has flexibility in his work hours (he can't come earlier because he likes sleeping in and going in to work later) - so she doesn't get to sleep until 10:30. The few days she's spent the night, he lets her stay up until 1 am and when sleeps with her so it's hard for her to sleep on her own when she comes back; and feeds her junk food. She goes wild after a little of this and he can't control her. He has exactly the visitation he wanted. (Some weeks he doesn't see her because he travels but I can't control that, and some weekends I take her out of town for trips, but I try to work those around him being able to see her).

 

He wants us both back living at home; not more visitation if I'm not there. I never have restricted their visits. As is he has her one full day and two evenings every week - would be longer evenings if he would show up earlier but I insist she must be home by 9 pm because she's 3... I would prefer earlier but full he won't show up until 7 when she wants to be going to bed. I have her three evening and one day. The custody agreement is joint legal with me having full physical, as he and I agreed, but really it's pretty equal right now. And I schedule her playdates/activities on my time not his. It's ended up being less than that - but that his been him canceling, not me.

 

 

She misses him due to divorce period, not me being selfish.

 

Which is why I'm where I'm at. So I would still love advice

Edited February 27, 2011 by SVessel

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I can't comprehend how a 3 year old can hold you hostage and have these issues as you describe at such a young age. And yes I have children (in addition to seeing step-children and how they interact) and remember them at age 3 and can't believe what you are saying.

 

Now on to your situation.... You need IC to understand how you are in this situation. You have significant daddy issues. The fact you were with a 30 something when you were a teenager and now with a 40 something and still in your 20's and indicated a dysfunctional upbringing tells me all I need to know.

 

You were easily manipulated by much older men and entered a poly relationship around the same time you had a child (if the time line is correct), which as is often the case you fell for the other man and the father of your child decided he was not happy with it and got jealous.... Surprise, surprise.

 

Shall I now guess too, that financially you are stuck and need a man to offer the financial security? You are in one hell of a predicament, which frankly I am not sure what you can do.

 

No child and I'd say dump both and enjoy your youth, find someone your age and get a career. However you have a 3 year old and can not make those decisions without her well being considered.

 

No easy answers.

[SVessel]

I can't comprehend how a 3 year old can hold you hostage and have these issues as you describe at such a young age. And yes I have children (in addition to seeing step-children and how they interact) and remember them at age 3 and can't believe what you are saying.

So normally she is a VERY happy girl. I never meant to imply differently. She is advanced for her age (already reading/counting/etc) and is super social. But almost every day she asks for her Daddy, or grabs my phone and calls him. I don't know if my husband has said anything to prompt it (he says no) but just recently she has been refusing to call to talk to [my partner] like she used to - and when he comes over and I tell her, she says, "No no no! I want Daddy") Though she is happy enough when he's there playing with her. She used to run to both of them and now she only runs to her Daddy, and says, "Hi [my partner]") When he shows up. My partner thinks it's because my husband has no rules for her and we do (like sleeping in her own bed). But I don't know. She has said that she wants "Mommy and me go live with Daddy at Daddy's house!"

 

 

Now on to your situation.... You need IC to understand how you are in this situation. You have significant daddy issues. The fact you were with a 30 something when you were a teenager and now with a 40 something and still in your 20's and indicated a dysfunctional upbringing tells me all I need to know.

I was 18 and he was 29 when we got together. I didn't see much an issue with age differences because it is common in my family and most of what I know.

My mother was the abusive and also unfaithful member of my family (and two decades younger than my father)

 

You were easily manipulated by much older men and entered a poly relationship around the same time you had a child (if the time line is correct), which as is often the case you fell for the other man and the father of your child decided he was not happy with it and got jealous.... Surprise, surprise.

The poly relationship has been on for about 6 years after my husband cheated and then insisted. I was not involved with anybody until a year ago of that, though he was.

 

Shall I now guess too, that financially you are stuck and need a man to offer the financial security? You are in one hell of a predicament, which frankly I am not sure what you can do.

 

No child and I'd say dump both and enjoy your youth, find someone your age and get a career. However you have a 3 year old and can not make those decisions without her well being considered.

 

No easy answers.

 

I do not have a formal education. I make a little money as a personal trainer, but very restricted hours so I can be home with my daughter and father who is in very poor health full time.

 

 

 

I love my partner, but feel selfish and scared for my daughter, who as a child too young to make her own choices, relies on me to ensure her happiness and wellbeing. And I wonder if I could get over the past and be happy with my husband, as he said (he did agree we didn't have to be poly anymore and that he would back me up this time at home) - even if we wouldn't be together, probably, sans our daughter- just happy enough by working hard on it for the most important person, our daughter.

[Spark1111]

...sounds like such a selfish dad. Didn't want her, did'nt want you, can't pick her up on time, she's up too late, no true effort into doing what is best for her, all playdates on your time.

 

and you want to keep this man.....why?

 

Whether married or divorced, he is responsible for the parent he will be to her.

 

I think he wants you back ONLY to pretend the happy home facade while he continues his open marriage, and he does not want another man raising his child.

 

He ONLY wants you now SO ANOTHER man can't have you and time with his daughter.

 

My advice: Stay right where you are.

[Distant78]

...sounds like such a selfish dad. Didn't want her, did'nt want you, can't pick her up on time, she's up too late, no true effort into doing what is best for her, all playdates on your time.

 

and you want to keep this man.....why?

 

Whether married or divorced, he is responsible for the parent he will be to her.

 

I think he wants you back ONLY to pretend the happy home facade while he continues his open marriage, and he does not want another man raising his child.

 

He ONLY wants you now SO ANOTHER man can't have you and time with his daughter.

 

My advice: Stay right where you are.

 

So biased. Here we goooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spark1111]

If this behavior is new for her, it could be possible your H is influencing that. How said, if true!

 

He is pulling out all the stops to manipulate you through her, and now her too.

 

And you want this man......because?

 

Stay where you are and figure yourself out first. Please go to counseling; many communities have it for free or almost free depending on your payscale.

 

Speak to an attorney re: your options for divorce and child custody.

 

If your H truly wants to see your daughter, I hope he is making every effort to do so responsibly, and not using those moments, ones that improved dramatically after you found someone new, kind and compassionate.

[SVessel]

So biased. Here we goooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Do you have any more advice Distant? What is your take? I appreciate all POV's. I'm not sure I understand yours based on this. Thank you.

[Spark1111]

So biased. Here we goooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What planet ARE YOU ON?

 

The facts, as stated:

 

Cheats on the mother, but then insists they have an open marriage, which she doesn't want. He sees many people on the side, while she meets someone one year ago, and guess what? He happens to be a nice guy.

 

Tells the OP he never loved her as a woman, he never wanted a child and almost left when she became pregnant.

 

But NOW that she has left him to be with another guy, he is father of the year, really wants to love her, will give up the open marriage thing, but not yet, not until she recommits to him (translation: give up the nice guy who actually seems to show this woman some respect)

 

My advice still stands: Stay away from this selfish, manipulating, user.

[Spark1111]

So biased. Here we goooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

 

DID you even read the original post on this thread?

 

If this was a man seeking advice re: his wife who had pulled the stunts on him like SVessel H has, what advice would you be giving here Distant?????

 

Stay? YOU would say STAY?

[SVessel]

If this behavior is new for her, it could be possible your H is influencing that. How said, if true!

 

He is pulling out all the stops to manipulate you through her, and now her too.

 

And you want this man......because?

 

Stay where you are and figure yourself out first. Please go to counseling; many communities have it for free or almost free depending on your payscale.

 

Speak to an attorney re: your options for divorce and child custody.

 

If your H truly wants to see your daughter, I hope he is making every effort to do so responsibly, and not using those moments, ones that improved dramatically after you found someone new, kind and compassionate.

 

He says he would not do that; so it is quite possible she is just old enough now to understand more and pick up that when she is with Daddy, "my partner" isn't there, and vice versa. Originally she wanted us all to hang out together and would ask for that. She suggested we all go live in the house next to the little boy who is her best friend.

 

 

I also don't want this to be a bash fest because you are only getting my point of view. I'm sure if either of my partners posted regarding my horrendous behaviour of telling them of my struggles and not just committing to a decision , ALL the choice words would be for me.

 

 

As for him - he makes me laugh and he has a unique way of looking at the world - is a tested genius - and is the father of my daughter and being apart from him is tearing apart HER family. It's also losing his family who have been wonderful to me, really good people... And I feel like I have less control now than I did. For example, he is an atheist and was willing to have me take her to church with me when I was there, but now insists she have no exposure to religion. And she just misses him so much... and I think of her childhood shuttling back and forth, back and forth.... No reliable schedule day to day, constant disruption... and who knows who he will choose to bring into her life... :/ He says some of what he has done with me is unique to me and the dynamic we had in the past and we could change it; that other women he has been with would not recognize the man who's actions I talk about.

 

I have been to an attorney. He said the visits could be set at an earlier time but I don't want her to lose every chance to see her dad.

[Distant78]

What planet ARE YOU ON?

 

Earth.

 

Cheats on the mother, but then insists they have an open marriage, which she doesn't want. He sees many people on the side, while she meets someone one year ago, and guess what? He happens to be a nice guy.

 

Oh well she went into it eyes open. Should've left the guy instead of joining. Don't know if a guy messing with a married woman is nice simply because it's just an open marriage.

 

 

My advice still stands: Stay away from this selfish, manipulating, user.

 

Doesn't matter. He's still the father and he deserves to see his child. She's becoming just as selfish as him if she holds her over his head.

[Distant78]

DID you even read the original post on this thread?

 

Yes!

 

If this was a man seeking advice re: his wife who had pulled the stunts on him like SVessel H has, what advice would you be giving here Distant?????

 

The same advice I gave her.

 

 

Stay? YOU would say STAY?

 

Nope.

[SVessel]

 

Doesn't matter. He's still the father and he deserves to see his child. She's becoming just as selfish as him if she holds her over his head.

 

How am I doing that?

 

That sounds defensive but it's an honest question. I'm trying to do what I can to make sure not to jeopardize their relationship because he will always be her daddy.

[Distant78]

How am I doing that?

 

That sounds defensive but it's an honest question. I'm trying to do what I can to make sure not to jeopardize their relationship because he will always be her daddy.

 

Then why dread the thought of her being with him because you two didn't work out?

[SVessel]

Then why dread the thought of her being with him because you two didn't work out?

 

I don't understand.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

29 & 19 and now again a 20 year age difference is an issue. Now you are looking after an ailing father? Why is that? Maybe because he was 20-30 years older then your mother who was too immature to have a family and kids? This is a sad self-fulfilling prophesy and you have been conditioned to think it is normal.

 

So just to confirm the timeline. You had a cheating partner, pushed into a poly (not open relationship) and then had a child. This other man has been around and involved sexually before you had the baby?

 

Also your ex is manipulating your daughter. She ios 3 and is learning this behavour from him. No, I no 3 year old reacts the way you are saying without prodding.......

[Distant78]

29 & 19 and now again a 20 year age difference is an issue. Now you are looking after an ailing father? Why is that? Maybe because he was 20-30 years older then your mother who was too immature to have a family and kids? This is a sad self-fulfilling prophesy and you have been conditioned to think it is normal.

 

So just to confirm the timeline. You had a cheating partner, pushed into a poly (not open relationship) and then had a child. This other man has been around and involved sexually before you had the baby?

 

Also your ex is manipulating your daughter. She ios 3 and is learning this behavour from him. No, I no 3 year old reacts the way you are saying without prodding.......

 

She wasn't pushed into it. She's a grown woman, and was grown when she started off with him. Just because she's young doesn't mean she didn't know what she was doing and it was an open relationship by the way.

[SVessel]

29 & 19 and now again a 20 year age difference is an issue. Now you are looking after an ailing father? Why is that? Maybe because he was 20-30 years older then your mother who was too immature to have a family and kids? This is a sad self-fulfilling prophesy and you have been conditioned to think it is normal.

 

So just to confirm the timeline. You had a cheating partner, pushed into a poly (not open relationship) and then had a child. This other man has been around and involved sexually before you had the baby?

 

Also your ex is manipulating your daughter. She ios 3 and is learning this behavour from him. No, I no 3 year old reacts the way you are saying without prodding.......

 

 

I became involved with the other man a couple years after my daughter was born. My husband had been involved with other women before then.

 

My mother passed away years ago and my father did not take care of himself, so someone needs to help take care of him. My parents never got a divorce in spite of everything. My father is still in love with my mother.

[Spark1111]

He says he would not do that; so it is quite possible she is just old enough now to understand more and pick up that when she is with Daddy, "my partner" isn't there, and vice versa. Originally she wanted us all to hang out together and would ask for that. She suggested we all go live in the house next to the little boy who is her best friend.

 

 

I also don't want this to be a bash fest because you are only getting my point of view. I'm sure if either of my partners posted regarding my horrendous behaviour of telling them of my struggles and not just committing to a decision , ALL the choice words would be for me.

 

 

As for him - he makes me laugh and he has a unique way of looking at the world - is a tested genius - and is the father of my daughter and being apart from him is tearing apart HER family. It's also losing his family who have been wonderful to me, really good people... And I feel like I have less control now than I did. For example, he is an atheist and was willing to have me take her to church with me when I was there, but now insists she have no exposure to religion. And she just misses him so much... and I think of her childhood shuttling back and forth, back and forth.... No reliable schedule day to day, constant disruption... and who knows who he will choose to bring into her life... :/ He says some of what he has done with me is unique to me and the dynamic we had in the past and we could change it; that other women he has been with would not recognize the man who's actions I talk about.

 

I have been to an attorney. He said the visits could be set at an earlier time but I don't want her to lose every chance to see her dad.

 

I am NOT advocating she not see nor spend time with her dad. Children love and benefit by time with both parents, period.

 

They have a right to a relationship with both parents, and the parental relationship should NEVER be used to hurt a child, period.

 

I personally, do not care that he's a tested genius: IS HE A GOOD MAN? TO YOU, YOUR CHILD? IS HE RESPECTFUL AND KIND TO YOU?

 

As for joint custody, that should be decided in the best interests of the child, and that too should have stability, not shuffling this baby at his or your convenience, but on a schedule that is in HER best interests.

 

As for church, HE won't allow it? Are you kidding me? It violates the tenets of his atheism?

 

How do you FEEL about that? Think church is harmful to a three-year old?

 

Of course it is not. And she gets to make up her own mind when she is 18. Imagine that.

 

Do you hear yourself? He WON"T ALLOW you to being the child to church?

 

Of course you can if you want to. He did not respect YOUR feelings enough to not have an open marriage.

 

But you continue to respect his regarding church?

 

This relationship is not fair, nor equitable.

 

Personally, he scares me.

[Spark1111]

29 & 19 and now again a 20 year age difference is an issue. Now you are looking after an ailing father? Why is that? Maybe because he was 20-30 years older then your mother who was too immature to have a family and kids? This is a sad self-fulfilling prophesy and you have been conditioned to think it is normal.

 

So just to confirm the timeline. You had a cheating partner, pushed into a poly (not open relationship) and then had a child. This other man has been around and involved sexually before you had the baby?

 

Also your ex is manipulating your daughter. She ios 3 and is learning this behavour from him. No, I no 3 year old reacts the way you are saying without prodding.......[/QUOTE]

 

About the bolded: Agreed, TDP!

 

Like I said, this guy scares me.

[Spark1111]

She wasn't pushed into it. She's a grown woman, and was grown when she started off with him. Just because she's young doesn't mean she didn't know what she was doing and it was an open relationship by the way.

 

She married at 18, H was 30. He cheats right off the back, and insists at the point they have an open marriage. He continues with OW, she does not; not until one year ago.....

 

Everything was fine until she left H in separation.

 

What made you decide to separate at that point, SVessel?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

She wasn't pushed into it. She's a grown woman, and was grown when she started off with him. Just because she's young doesn't mean she didn't know what she was doing and it was an open relationship by the way.

 

and would be okay with her dating a 29 year old???? Sorry I'd be very wary and certainly know my daughter (very intelligent and smart) would not be ready to date a 29 year old. The OP has proven it by staying with a cheating man, pushed into a poly relationship and her next choice being even older..... Oh and the father of her child is manipulating her at every turn. She is no where near mature enough even 7-10 year's on....

 

And yep I'm superficial when I now hear the OP is a personal trainer (yes imagining a fit attractive woman), who I imaging is not manipulated by body issues, who's life is screwed up.