fortyninethousand322 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I understand what you are saying. However your being in love with that woman does not negate the fact that our society expects women to look, dress, and act in certain ways. If they don't they get censure...in everything from service at a store to employment. She was lucky to find you. However their are plenty of frumpy girls who never get so lucky. Most people are slaves to whatever "society" tells them. Remember 50% of us have an IQ under 100 and think the world is 6000 years old...not real independent thinkers. Yeah there are certain societal expectations, but on an individual level when you're drawn to someone there's nothing you can do about it, societal expectations or not. And I wouldn't go so far as to say my girl was "frumpy". She was cute, but it was the way she handled herself, a certain "je ne sais quoi" that drew me to her. And I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world that this has happened to. Unfortunately, there were other things that derailed my relationship with her (if it could even be called a relationship).
Woggle Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I agree that the double standard goes both ways. Most men would have no issue dating a supermarket cashier that still lives at home while most women would not even look at a man in that position. Both are double standards but I guess it is a tradeoff. Also men are a lot less obsessed with thin women than women think.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I agree that the double standard goes both ways. Most men would have no issue dating a supermarket cashier that still lives at home while most women would not even look at a man in that position. Both are double standards but I guess it is a tradeoff. Also men are a lot less obsessed with thin women than women think. I agree with the last part. However I have seen good looking, college educated career women dating guys with no college level education who work low end jobs and who live with their parents (and whose only hobby was partying). I think both "double standards" are a myth.
Woggle Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I agree with the last part. However I have seen good looking, college educated career women dating guys with no college level education who work low end jobs and who live with their parents (and whose only hobby was partying). I think both "double standards" are a myth. Were these guys serious relationships are just a fling though? Women will have a fling with a loser but rarely are they looked at as commitment material.
Nexus One Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Hey man, I never judged you. I don't think you're a jerk. I have the same taste! I know you didn't. I was referring to the point that I assembled that image and potentially made women feel unworthy and that posting it regardless would make me a jerk in general. The onus is on all of us, as men, to recognize that the media has taken advantage of us. They know perfect faces please our brains and so they use it, non-stop. Right? Beauty (in a woman) is a thing to obtain just like, whatever, the car she's standing next to, or the makeup in her hand. The media is as the media does. They're driven by commerce and profit pressure. I realize that and hence I try to look beyond that and try not to let those tricks get to me. Actually, you can. I wouldn't know how to. If you asked me years ago I would have agreed, but I have since had an experience that changed my mind. Women don't need you to "tell them the truth" about what men really think is beautiful. I kind of disagree with that, because from a guy's point of view for example I have no idea what a really beautiful man is, I'm guessing women struggle with a similar difficulty. I'm talking about really refined taste, not the general run of the mill Brad Pits. because remember, it's the media who informed you, too, on what you think is beautiful. They gave you Michelle Trachtenberg to look at, so you could say "Oh yeah, that is what I like, isn't it?" It doesn't work for me like that. Don't believe the hype. Beauty gets framed on a wall and that's about it.... It's not all about beauty for me. I can't fall in love with someone purely on looks, I definitely need personality for that too. I've actually met some women that looked like clones of the women in that photo compilation. I fell in love with none of them except one. She looked exactly like the long haired Natalie Imbruglia in that compilation. She actually had to grow on me and her personality is actually what made me notice her "in that way". Incidentally she liked me back, but not long after we indicated to each other that we liked each other I had to move out of town and we haven't spoken since. Due to that I know it's way more than beauty framed on a wall. Interacting with a woman like that, laughing with her, having her flirt with you...I can't describe it in any other word other than irresistible.
Ay Diesel T Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Personally would want a woman who's equally concerned about her health as I am. Besides, flabbiness is not attractive to me at all.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Were these guys serious relationships are just a fling though? Women will have a fling with a loser but rarely are they looked at as commitment material. Out of the 5 couples I know personally, all have made it at least one year. Three of them at 4 years and counting.
Woggle Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Out of the 5 couples I know personally, all have made it at least one year. Three of them at 4 years and counting. I believe but is rare. I must say there are a small group of women who actually want a man who is less successful than she is because it keeps the power balance in her favor. They believe that if they make more than their man then they wear the pants and won't be some submissive housewife. It's sort of a reverse of the men who want women to make less.
Bj099235 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Yeah, there's male and female double standards in dating.
somedude81 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 As it's been repeated in this thread, the reason women are judged so much on their bodies is because for most men, it's the number one factor in determining how appealing she is. Men don't instinctively care how educated a woman is, what job she has, what her possessions are, where she lives, where she's been or what a woman's plan for the future is. Those things are just not natural concerns. I'm not sure if you realized, but women have a lot less expectations placed on them than men have. Women want a lot more from a man than a man wants from a woman. So give the guy a break for having a little flab on him.
sally4sara Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 As it's been repeated in this thread, the reason women are judged so much on their bodies is because for most men, it's the number one factor in determining how appealing she is. Men don't instinctively care how educated a woman is, what job she has, what her possessions are, where she lives, where she's been or what a woman's plan for the future is. Those things are just not natural concerns. I'm not sure if you realized, but women have a lot less expectations placed on them than men have. Women want a lot more from a man than a man wants from a woman. So give the guy a break for having a little flab on him. Nope. Its y'all's own fault for looking to so little when picking a mate. We don't have to accept anything just because your standards are so shallow that you choose frivolously. No one is forcing you to choose based on so little. How a woman looks will not last forever nor will it make a relationship work in the long haul. Choosing her only on her looks is pure stupidity and if you choose this way don't act so shocked when you get little from it in the end.
phineas Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Actually, I've had women who were a little flabby turn me down because I am a little flabby. (something i'm actively fixing right now) & go with fitter men who are obvious player types. I see many slightly overweight women turning down slightly overweight guys & chasing after the ripped dude who wants nothing to do with them.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 As it's been repeated in this thread, the reason women are judged so much on their bodies is because for most men, it's the number one factor in determining how appealing she is. Men don't instinctively care how educated a woman is, what job she has, what her possessions are, where she lives, where she's been or what a woman's plan for the future is. Those things are just not natural concerns. I'm not sure if you realized, but women have a lot less expectations placed on them than men have. Women want a lot more from a man than a man wants from a woman. So give the guy a break for having a little flab on him. I don't know about you but I don't separate looks from other attributes. Looks are a part of the person, along with their drive, ambition, personality and their chemistry with me among other things. I have met women whom I've found attractive but was not attracted to. I'm either attracted to a woman or I'm not. I assume the same goes for many women as well. Often (but not always) how in shape or out of shape someone is, is a reflection of their personality and lifestyle. If a woman lives a very active lifestyle (sports, hiking, running, going to the gym etc.) don't expect them to be interested in someone who lives a sedentary lifestyle. It's not just about looks it's also about compatibility.
somedude81 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 No one is forcing you to choose based on so little. How a woman looks will not last forever nor will it make a relationship work in the long haul. Who said anything about the long haul? I was talking about instincts. The OP wanted to know why women are so judged on their weight. Men do it because we naturally place a great importance on woman's appearance. Andy K did a great job of explaining that. It's not something that men choose to do. Women aren't innocent from that either. Just as how men aren't attracted to heavier women, women aren't attracted to shorter guys. I guess that's because a short guy wouldn't be able to protect her from a bear as well as a tall guy would
somedude81 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I don't know about you but I don't separate looks from other attributes. Looks are a part of the person, along with their drive, ambition, personality and their chemistry with me among other things. So when you look at a woman, you wonder about what kind of car she drives and what job she has?
pandagirl Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I think for the most part, men do not care if a woman is 10-15 lbs overweight or has a little pooch on them. But, hello! It's obvious why old, unattractive men who are RICH often end up with young, hot girls who aren't so... intelligent. The two extremes match up with each other. But, I don't think it is the norm. That being said, my ex once said to me that he didn't want me to get fat when I got older. My reaction was one of anger! How could he! But then he said to me: "Do you want me to get fat?" And I couldn't really argue with that!
elaina Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I see many slightly overweight women turning down slightly overweight guys & chasing after the ripped dude who wants nothing to do with them. I see this too. To me, it's very important that I am not bigger (fatter) than the guy. I like to be smaller I don't know why that's so important to me, but it is.
jlola Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I have no idea, because I do not tolerate flabbiness in men. I'm always confused when my attractive female friends date guys like this. To me it has nothing to do with physical appearance. I mean, I also don't really like the bubbly, artificiality of gym-built muscles. To me it has to do with health. Physical activity is a necessity, it is what our bodies were built for, and without regular activity, you become mentally and physically unwell. It has nothing to do with the guy, and everything to do with finding a person whose values align with yours. I would just be more frustrated dating a guy who was out of shape and not physically active, because we wouldn't have as much in common... I agree with you. I am more attracted to men who stay fit because of health reasons and it shows someone who cares about himself enough to make an effort. Teeth are very important too. Women need to be as sexually attracted to their partners as men are. I think men believe they ger a free ride. But in reality if I were a man I would rather a woman be attracted to me physically, then happy just that I can provide well for her. Yes, looks fade, but come on. There is no reason for a man to allow his body to go to pot. Soooo many nice guys out there complain they cannot find a woman. There are plenty of women available. But just being a nice guy will not cut it. I have a friend who is a great guy. Has lots of first dates from Match.com(he put up great profile pics above waist) but rarely second date. He is a older than I , late 40's , lots of fun, very intelligent and well traveled so we hang out. He is not in good shape, has a gut, though attractive facially has heartburn alot(does not eat well, burps into his fist)dyes his hair badly, has bad kness ,dresses badly and wonders why women are not flocking to him anymore. I have tried to give him a makeover, but he thinks he is fine. I think the future heath issues for this man is not making him very attractive to potental dates. I can't blame them. Now had this man gone to the gym, ate well and took care of himself I am sure he would not have trouble keeping the caliber of women he is interested in. Water seeks it's own level eventually. But he is wayyyy too picky for what he has to offer.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 So when you look at a woman, you wonder about what kind of car she drives and what job she has? Well the car I could care less about. But, I don't get instantly attracted to a girl just by looking at her. I can find her attractive sure, but if I go and talk to her and she's doesn't have what I'm looking for then I'm not attracted to her. As I wrote earlier in this thread the only girl I can say I was ever in love with did not reflect "normal" standards of beauty. She was cute, but wore ratty shoes, didn't wear much makeup at all, didn't even carry a purse. Yet I was drawn to her nonetheless.
sally4sara Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Who said anything about the long haul? I was talking about instincts. The OP wanted to know why women are so judged on their weight. Men do it because we naturally place a great importance on woman's appearance. Andy K did a great job of explaining that. It's not something that men choose to do. Women aren't innocent from that either. Just as how men aren't attracted to heavier women, women aren't attracted to shorter guys. I guess that's because a short guy wouldn't be able to protect her from a bear as well as a tall guy would It is human instinct to partner, multiply, and see that those kids reach maturity. Men didn't know the kids was theirs back then, but it was so important to them that the kids within the tribe lived that any woman with a child was helped in that goal. Back then we were only 15% different in size. After paternity was discovered, men started choosing women who were smallest so she wouldn't compete with the kids so much for the food and resources he brought in. It was no longer everyone sharing so he didn't have anyone to look to for help in feeding offspring other than his mate. Women compensated by being more receptive to larger men so she would appear smaller. You can't site instincts on one hand and then point to the values of a modern man-child. The modern man-child motivations are contrary to what our earliest ancestors did instinctually.
Woggle Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I stand by what I said about men not caring as much about a woman's weight as women may think. I honestly don't know any man who find the skeletons who see on runways to be attractive. No man I know wants an anorexic woman who looks malnourished.
PJKino Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 First of allot of women do this for their own vanity and insecurites..They look better in contrast to the man..then some women think an out of shape guys less likely to cheat.. Lets not act like women arent shallow with builds.. mens height is a huge deal to women and its easier for women to lose weight then men to grow taller.. I see tons of women try to go out of their league till they get older and the biological clocks ticking
somedude81 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I stand by what I said about men not caring as much about a woman's weight as women may think. I honestly don't know any man who find the skeletons who see on runways to be attractive. No man I know wants an anorexic woman who looks malnourished. Woggle, you just gave an example of men caring about a woman's weight ---------- Men only really care if the woman is too skinny or too heavy. There's probably a 30lb range that's acceptable. I'm taking a social dance class so I get very close to women who have vastly different body types. When dancing with really skinny girls I'm afraid that I might break them and it just feels really weird dancing with overweight girls because they have curves and rolls in the wrong places. I'm also afraid to dip a bigger girl especially if she weighs more than I do. There's a girl who's not thin or skinny by any means and definitely not fat who turns me on so much that I actively need to stop and calm myself down or else the little guy runs wild
SteveC80 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Women are more shallow they just hide it better then men
Author xpaperxcutx Posted February 23, 2011 Author Posted February 23, 2011 Okay guys and gals, here's a little social experiment- give me your personal opinions on the following two models and which is your preferable type- http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/17200000/andrej-pejic-for-tush-magazine-andrej-pejic-17250957-800-524.jpg http://entertainment.blogs.foxnews.com/files/2010/07/CrystalNow.jpg Obviously, one is a plus sized model, and the other is not. I will get a clearer conclusive data analysis of men's body type preference after this.
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