findingnemo Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 To avoid t'jing, I thought we should analyze some of the excuses MMs give for cheating. Isn't it funny how Hs come up with so many excuses for cheating and somehow they are all based on what W did or didn't do. 1. She is Not the woman I married because she is fat, irritable, rude, does not respect me...etc. Basically, she changed. 2. She doesn't satisfy in bed - she no longer has an interest in sex, she won't try new things.... From the point of view of the BS: There is nothing as degrading as an H saying it is your fault he cheated because you let yourself go! I personally let myself go...I had to. I had a baby and a toddler and needed to make money to give them everything they needed!! I didn't have time to worry about my weight, I was too busy working in my business, looking after my babies and paying most of the bills! In any case, most women I know spend a lot of time trying to look good in the morning for themselves. So whether I am fat, or broke, I still look good. My response to him was "at least that is a temporary problem that can easily be solved. Your no-good, lazy a**, cheating self, on the other hand, is not.:mad:" The other excuse I heard in a family meeting to discuss our "sham" M was that I do not give my H sex. That was my MIL talking. She brought it up like it was a major point and expected everybody to agree. Well, everybody was scandalized. In truth, by the time I had my first baby, H had pissed me off so much that nothing I saw in him attracted me. I blatantly refused to have sex with him. I was getting nothing in return. Hell, even prostitues get paid. From the point of view of the OW: I was never given an excuse/reason except for him saying that he loved us both. I didn't know what to say to that because I knew that he did love me. Who can argue with someone about their feelings? But I wonder how I would have reacted if he'd said any of the above. Maybe there would never have been an A... What other excuses do they use? How did you react to the excuses?
seren Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 To avoid t'jing, I thought we should analyze some of the excuses MMs give for cheating. Isn't it funny how Hs come up with so many excuses for cheating and somehow they are all based on what W did or didn't do. Hi Nemo, I can tell you what my H said. He had his head up his a***, thought I didn't love him, thought our M was all but over, that he wasn't good enough, that he couldn't cope with all that was going on with his life, hated himself and the A was an escape from who he was. I know from OW that he didn't blame me for any of it, and never, ever has. I take the blame for the marriage going Pete Tong, but not the A, he won't even hear this, but I know what I know. I suppose for those who blame the BS, it is easier than looking at what they could do to help fix things, even if the fixing ended up with leaving. Of course some marriages or relationships are so broken that no amount of fixing can repair them, but the blame game is just an excuse, IMO. I know lots of people who say they don't have sex with their partners, a sort of bed death. I think if sex is regarded as a release or right rather than an affirmation and celebration of feeling, then sex does go out of the window, but still don't get the blame thing. I wonder if I were an OW, if I would feel rather insulted that the lack of sex was a reason for an A. I say it is more of lack of wooing and being made to feel all that. Otherwise it becomes cold and unfeeling and no satisfaction for anyone other than the release. One of my very good friends had an A and she said it was because the marriage got stale, that she wanted romance, to feel wanted and sexy. I asked why she couldn't feel this for her H, as she maintained she loved him. Her answer was that her H was familiar, comfortable, wasn't going anywhere, I asked what effort she had put into geeing up the intimacy side of her marriage, answer, none. I can see their marriage going back down that road, on the surface everything fine, everything ticking along and see her becoming restless and in need of self validation. Tis like watching a train crash waiting to happen. Both need to make some effort, it all sounds very me, me, me from her. Sometimes I think that if WS said, I fell in love (if the A was for love), it was unavoidable, we need to be together it would be far more honest than blaming the BS. On the other hand, being told it meant nothing, it was just sex, excitment or whatever, is far more hurtful. I have gone off track again. Apologies, I blame my sleep deprived brain.
Star_Bright Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 ExMM's wife was in very good shape and looked very beautiful for her age, or just in general. People would often comment on her beauty. She was a good mom and took really great care of their kids and also of him, their house, his business... basically her world revolved around him. So his excuse for cheating on her was that she had inserted himself into his business and he didn't want her to help him run it anymore; it was too hard to work with her and be married to her, and she wasn't smart enough to run it. He would often pick fun at her intelligence level. He also used the sex excuse sometimes, saying that after menopause she lost interest and it was painful. I don't know how much truth there was to that. At first I justified it all because we had an amazing sex life and we were on the same level in terms of education, career, things we liked to talk about, so I thought they were just ill-suited. But then I realized he had chosen to marry her knowing she was rather dingy. (Yes it's mean to call her dingy but I'm just being completely honest here. The only excuse I ever truly "bought" from him as to why things weren't good with them--and I guess one of the things that helped me justify it all) was that. But otherwise she was an all-around perfect person. And from what he said about their sex life she had tried to accomodate him despite it being painful for her- what else was she supposed to do? So when I really started to look at things I realized that if he could cheat on her and lie to her and even admit that things weren't that bad, what could he do to me? I began to see that many of the problems in their marriage were due to him- he would rather stay out with his buddies (and then me) and drink and avoid responsibilities, then get mad at her for nagging. I knew he wouldn't change with me and even though I dont' particularly want those things... kids, living in one place forever, a house, etc., and my interests/goals are more in line with his... travel, fun, friends... there was no guarantee that *I* would be enough for him, either. He seemed to want everything, and that's just impossible.
20Seconds Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I think if sex is regarded as a release or right rather than an affirmation and celebration of feeling, then sex does go out of the window, That is a great way of putting it The reasons I have been given or deduced for having an A..loss of intimacy, lack of time / attention being given, and no physical R. This was never in attempt to lay blame, just saying it had eroded over time until there was nothing left. You can never know as an outsider whether this is more due to one partner or the other, it's a fair bet it's a bit of both. When you get to that point it's a kind of stalemate - MC may solve it but I think that the prevalence of A's would suggest most people find them the easier option.
SoMovinOn Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 MM use the same excuses and justifications for cheating as MW do.
Author findingnemo Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 Hi Nemo, I can tell you what my H said. He had his head up his a***, thought I didn't love him, thought our M was all but over, that he wasn't good enough, that he couldn't cope with all that was going on with his life, hated himself and the A was an escape from who he was. I know from OW that he didn't blame me for any of it, and never, ever has. I take the blame for the marriage going Pete Tong, but not the A, he won't even hear this, but I know what I know. I suppose for those who blame the BS, it is easier than looking at what they could do to help fix things, even if the fixing ended up with leaving. Of course some marriages or relationships are so broken that no amount of fixing can repair them, but the blame game is just an excuse, IMO. I know lots of people who say they don't have sex with their partners, a sort of bed death. I think if sex is regarded as a release or right rather than an affirmation and celebration of feeling, then sex does go out of the window, but still don't get the blame thing. I wonder if I were an OW, if I would feel rather insulted that the lack of sex was a reason for an A. I say it is more of lack of wooing and being made to feel all that. Otherwise it becomes cold and unfeeling and no satisfaction for anyone other than the release. One of my very good friends had an A and she said it was because the marriage got stale, that she wanted romance, to feel wanted and sexy. I asked why she couldn't feel this for her H, as she maintained she loved him. Her answer was that her H was familiar, comfortable, wasn't going anywhere, I asked what effort she had put into geeing up the intimacy side of her marriage, answer, none. I can see their marriage going back down that road, on the surface everything fine, everything ticking along and see her becoming restless and in need of self validation. Tis like watching a train crash waiting to happen. Both need to make some effort, it all sounds very me, me, me from her. Sometimes I think that if WS said, I fell in love (if the A was for love), it was unavoidable, we need to be together it would be far more honest than blaming the BS. On the other hand, being told it meant nothing, it was just sex, excitment or whatever, is far more hurtful. I have gone off track again. Apologies, I blame my sleep deprived brain. Seren, Your friend is an interesting woman. She didn't "play the blame game". But I know now that being in a sexless marriage is one of the worst things ever. It makes you feel like a "fake" woman, for lack of a better word. The excuses, I'm sure, are numerous. Your H's excuses were very different because he blamed himself. That's the first time I have heard something like that!!! I didn't realize that you had talked to the OW. That must have been stressful. I digress...The only excuse should be love really. But if it is really love, the MM should have no problem getting a divorce.
wheelwright Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Seren, Your friend is an interesting woman. She didn't "play the blame game". But I know now that being in a sexless marriage is one of the worst things ever. It makes you feel like a "fake" woman, for lack of a better word. The excuses, I'm sure, are numerous. Your H's excuses were very different because he blamed himself. That's the first time I have heard something like that!!! I didn't realize that you had talked to the OW. That must have been stressful. I digress...The only excuse should be love really. But if it is really love, the MM should have no problem getting a divorce. I agree
fooled once Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 To avoid t'jing, I thought we should analyze some of the excuses MMs give for cheating. Isn't it funny how Hs come up with so many excuses for cheating and somehow they are all based on what W did or didn't do. Hi Nemo, I can tell you what my H said. He had his head up his a***, thought I didn't love him, thought our M was all but over, that he wasn't good enough, that he couldn't cope with all that was going on with his life, hated himself and the A was an escape from who he was. I know from OW that he didn't blame me for any of it, and never, ever has. I take the blame for the marriage going Pete Tong, but not the A, he won't even hear this, but I know what I know. I suppose for those who blame the BS, it is easier than looking at what they could do to help fix things, even if the fixing ended up with leaving. Of course some marriages or relationships are so broken that no amount of fixing can repair them, but the blame game is just an excuse, IMO. I know lots of people who say they don't have sex with their partners, a sort of bed death. I think if sex is regarded as a release or right rather than an affirmation and celebration of feeling, then sex does go out of the window, but still don't get the blame thing. I wonder if I were an OW, if I would feel rather insulted that the lack of sex was a reason for an A. I say it is more of lack of wooing and being made to feel all that. Otherwise it becomes cold and unfeeling and no satisfaction for anyone other than the release. One of my very good friends had an A and she said it was because the marriage got stale, that she wanted romance, to feel wanted and sexy. I asked why she couldn't feel this for her H, as she maintained she loved him. Her answer was that her H was familiar, comfortable, wasn't going anywhere, I asked what effort she had put into geeing up the intimacy side of her marriage, answer, none. I can see their marriage going back down that road, on the surface everything fine, everything ticking along and see her becoming restless and in need of self validation. Tis like watching a train crash waiting to happen. Both need to make some effort, it all sounds very me, me, me from her. Sometimes I think that if WS said, I fell in love (if the A was for love), it was unavoidable, we need to be together it would be far more honest than blaming the BS. On the other hand, being told it meant nothing, it was just sex, excitment or whatever, is far more hurtful. I have gone off track again. Apologies, I blame my sleep deprived brain. Seren, I always love your posts because they are insightful, honest and very 'fair'. I have no doubt in my mind that your H knows how dang lucky he is to have you for his wife ExMM's wife was in very good shape and looked very beautiful for her age, or just in general. People would often comment on her beauty. She was a good mom and took really great care of their kids and also of him, their house, his business... basically her world revolved around him. So his excuse for cheating on her was that she had inserted himself into his business and he didn't want her to help him run it anymore; it was too hard to work with her and be married to her, and she wasn't smart enough to run it. He would often pick fun at her intelligence level. He also used the sex excuse sometimes, saying that after menopause she lost interest and it was painful. I don't know how much truth there was to that. At first I justified it all because we had an amazing sex life and we were on the same level in terms of education, career, things we liked to talk about, so I thought they were just ill-suited. But then I realized he had chosen to marry her knowing she was rather dingy. (Yes it's mean to call her dingy but I'm just being completely honest here. The only excuse I ever truly "bought" from him as to why things weren't good with them--and I guess one of the things that helped me justify it all) was that. But otherwise she was an all-around perfect person. And from what he said about their sex life she had tried to accomodate him despite it being painful for her- what else was she supposed to do? So when I really started to look at things I realized that if he could cheat on her and lie to her and even admit that things weren't that bad, what could he do to me? I began to see that many of the problems in their marriage were due to him- he would rather stay out with his buddies (and then me) and drink and avoid responsibilities, then get mad at her for nagging. I knew he wouldn't change with me and even though I dont' particularly want those things... kids, living in one place forever, a house, etc., and my interests/goals are more in line with his... travel, fun, friends... there was no guarantee that *I* would be enough for him, either. He seemed to want everything, and that's just impossible. Great post Star!!! I agree with so much of it! As for the desire for lack of sex during menopause - knowing what I know and knowing how some of my friends feel, I will agree that menopause can/does impact a sex life; but that doesn't mean the sex life has to go away. Heck, menopause affects more than just the sex parts - hormones are wacky, hot/cold sensations, etc. It can be hard to manage but with the love and support of a partner, all things can get worked out for BOTH people
seren Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Seren, Your friend is an interesting woman. She didn't "play the blame game". But I know now that being in a sexless marriage is one of the worst things ever. It makes you feel like a "fake" woman, for lack of a better word. Oh I don't know that she doesn't blame her H for the lack of romance, but it takes two and she sure can be crabby with him, mind you both seem flat. In many cases AP say that they aren't having sex and possibly some aren't, but it might also be that they aren't being intimate, which IMO is a very different kettle of fish. If the AP is distancing themselves, as many do in A's, then intimacy just isn't going to happen. For intimacy, both have to make the effort, it's impossible to have intimacy on your own! sex, is just sex, it can happen with anyone, it can be mind blowing with anyone, but intimacy? That doesn't just happen, it's a process. My friend wants the security, friendship, love and validation her marriage brings, sees intimacy as an emotion that goes hand in glove with marriage, I disagree, it goes with safety, love, laughter, trust and so on. What she had with the OM was fun, no strings sex, planning, lust etc etc, not love and not intimacy. [The excuses, I'm sure, are numerous. Your H's excuses were very different because he blamed himself. That's the first time I have heard something like that!!! I didn't realize that you had talked to the OW. That must have been stressful. I digress...The only excuse should be love really. But if it is really love, the MM should have no problem getting a divorce. My H had a whole raft of problems, PTSD after a couple of very difficult tours in Iraq, not feeling good enough for me and major self esteem issues, yet he said all was OK and that he was just a bit stressed at work. He absolutely blamed himself, still does, no matter what I say. But we are great because I understand it all. Umm no, the OW was gracious, I felt sorry for her, it's a long story. if the A had been for love then I would have wished him and eventually her well. No drama, much hurt, but it would have been what it was. There are no excuses to cheat, there may be reasons for leaving a marriage, but cheating as a solution to a problem. Nope. I agree, divorce or sort it out. Edited February 24, 2011 by seren Screwed up the quote thing .. again and again and yet again!!
SoMovinOn Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 But if it is really love, the MM should have no problem getting a divorce. IF life was a Disney movie and love was all you needed to live happily ever after.
lovingwhatis Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 xMM did not give any excuses for the A. I respect him for that. Like someone else mentioned, had he given excuses i would have seen him in a different light. He also didn't give any excuses why he couldn't be with me. I also respect him for that.
Author findingnemo Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 IF life was a Disney movie and love was all you needed to live happily ever after. LOL. Isn't that the truth? But that is the problem with MPs in As. They damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If love ain't enough, it shouldn't be used as an excuse to be in an A.
Author findingnemo Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 Oh I don't know that she doesn't blame her H for the lack of romance, but it takes two and she sure can be crabby with him, mind you both seem flat. In many cases AP say that they aren't having sex and possibly some aren't, but it might also be that they aren't being intimate, which IMO is a very different kettle of fish. If the AP is distancing themselves, as many do in A's, then intimacy just isn't going to happen. For intimacy, both have to make the effort, it's impossible to have intimacy on your own! sex, is just sex, it can happen with anyone, it can be mind blowing with anyone, but intimacy? That doesn't just happen, it's a process. My friend wants the security, friendship, love and validation her marriage brings, sees intimacy as an emotion that goes hand in glove with marriage, I disagree, it goes with safety, love, laughter, trust and so on. What she had with the OM was fun, no strings sex, planning, lust etc etc, not love and not intimacy. [The excuses, I'm sure, are numerous. Your H's excuses were very different because he blamed himself. That's the first time I have heard something like that!!! I didn't realize that you had talked to the OW. That must have been stressful. I digress...The only excuse should be love really. But if it is really love, the MM should have no problem getting a divorce. My H had a whole raft of problems, PTSD after a couple of very difficult tours in Iraq, not feeling good enough for me and major self esteem issues, yet he said all was OK and that he was just a bit stressed at work. He absolutely blamed himself, still does, no matter what I say. But we are great because I understand it all. Umm no, the OW was gracious, I felt sorry for her, it's a long story. if the A had been for love then I would have wished him and eventually her well. No drama, much hurt, but it would have been what it was. There are no excuses to cheat, there may be reasons for leaving a marriage, but cheating as a solution to a problem. Nope. I agree, divorce or sort it out. Likeeeeee!
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