Fighting, Stress, and Breakups

[zengirl]

One example. I am a huge NFL fan and during the season on Sundays I have people over to my home, we watch the game in a nice big HDTV Plasma set with drinks, great food, lots of laughs and some sad moments when our team loses. I am doing it and nothing is going to change that.

 

I was dating a girl that had a problem with it. Her problem, not mine. She asked me to give that up after full well knowing what we did on Sundays. It was over. And that is just one example. I could list many more.

 

Comparing these examples to communication in a relationship is silly. If a guy had hobbies or a social life that didn't mesh with mine, we wouldn't date in the first place. I am not the kind of gal who asks a guy to give up the things he loves. The ways my boyfriend and I clashed were where our own personal failings met -- everybody has these; things that we wish were better about ourselves. My former boyfriend admitted he was bad at communicating in these ways, but he also refused to TRY to change. For me or himself. Then, he withdrew completely.

 

I understand where he's coming from: My pointing these things out made him feel badly about himself and made him feel the relationship was doomed as well. He also got frustrated with the fighting and felt we were in a negative place. And he had stress and sickness to boot. It was a perfect storm of misery for him, I'm sure. And no picnic for me.

 

But it wasn't about me trying to "change" who he was in terms of what he loved and wanted to do; he doesn't love people misunderstanding him or want to keep that happening (and he recognizes I am not the only one). This doesn't bring him happiness. However, focusing on it is the only way to fix it, and that brings him unhappiness because he feels incapable of doing so. He feels defeated. I get that. It was mostly where we clashed.

 

This is not to only blame him. If I were 'better' in some way, maybe I could have magically helped him feel empowered, rather than defeated; if I hadn't been under stress too and a bit exhausted, I think this would've been the case. Oh, well. No time machine to try that out with. C'est la vie. **** happens. In this case, as in most relationships that end, we were both wrong. We're also both unhappy now. This is a break up. It was not one-sided, and there was not a simple reason things went wrong.

 

However, what your example shows is more along the lines of if I asked my guy to not play so much World of Warcraft or not enjoy having beers with his friends on Tuesdays. Never did those things; never will with any guy. Why would I want to suck away the fun in someone's life?

[AverageJoe]

I'm not asking about your girls asking you to change. I think your previous post made your point pretty clear on that already. I'm wondering about what YOU do about things your girl does that YOU don't like. IE you date a girl who insists on, every Sunday, having HER friends over as well, which causes some trouble with your friends. As you do not believe in making her compromise, I believe you only have two choices then: break up with her immediately, or just shut up and live with it. You have failed to say anything in rebuttal to this conclusion.

 

You are partially correct only there is one choice. Leave. I don't "shut up and live with it". Many people do and they are left miserable and wondering where the hell they went wrong. Who the hell would want to shut up and live with it? Are you kidding me? What poor sap would succumb to such a conclusion in his or her own personal life that would make them be willing to settle. That is pretty much what you are saying, why shouldn't I just settle and live with it.

Not a chance.

 

As far as a girl I might be dating that has her own activities, friends or places to go. I don't really care. Why should her life be altered by me for the things she enjoyed way before she met me? My ego doesn't work that way.

 

If there is some activity she may do or say that I don't like, then the simple fact of the matter is she is not compatible for me and I really don't let things get further than that. No point in stringing along a doomed relationship from the start. And I certainly wouldn't have the attitude she's the best I could ever do and "live with it". Way too many women out there for me to limit myself to someone that I might have to "put up with". Yet, many people do it and later on down the line they split up over the initial causes they originally ignored.

 

So Elswyth you can shut up and live with it if you like. And in that regard the only thing I can say is good luck with that.

[AverageJoe]

 

I understand where he's coming from: My pointing these things out made him feel badly about himself and made him feel the relationship was doomed as well. He also got frustrated with the fighting and felt we were in a negative place. And he had stress and sickness to boot. It was a perfect storm of misery for him, I'm sure. And no picnic for me.

 

 

Interesting. And all this time he didn't know there was anything wrong with him until he met you.

[Ay Diesel T]

Joe's got it right though. If a guy has a lot of success with women, who cares what the woman has issues with? She'll be nexted, then easily replaced. Dating is a numbers game. Nobody should have to compromise **** for ****.

[Els]

You are partially correct only there is one choice. Leave. I don't "shut up and live with it". Many people do and they are left miserable and wondering where the hell they went wrong. Who the hell would want to shut up and live with it? Are you kidding me? What poor sap would succumb to such a conclusion in his or her own personal life that would make them be willing to settle. That is pretty much what you are saying, why shouldn't I just settle and live with it.

Not a chance.

 

As far as a girl I might be dating that has her own activities, friends or places to go. I don't really care. Why should her life be altered by me for the things she enjoyed way before she met me? My ego doesn't work that way.

 

If there is some activity she may do or say that I don't like, then the simple fact of the matter is she is not compatible for me and I really don't let things get further than that. No point in stringing along a doomed relationship from the start. And I certainly wouldn't have the attitude she's the best I could ever do and "live with it". Way too many women out there for me to limit myself to someone that I might have to "put up with". Yet, many people do it and later on down the line they split up over the initial causes they originally ignored.

 

So Elswyth you can shut up and live with it if you like. And in that regard the only thing I can say is good luck with that.

 

Errr. If you recall correctly I was the one talking about compromises, not shutting up and living with it. How would I know which choice YOU would take? I merely listed the only two possible with your standpoint, and you evidently agree with one and disagree with the other.

 

So you would leave without talking to her about it, and you think the OP should have done so with her bf as well (because it would be 'settling' for her to 'put up with' her bf's incompatible communication skills, right??). Well, I'd like you to riddle me this: How many LTRs have you had in your life?

 

I would be very, very amazed if the answer was even 1, because in that case you would have found a creature more mythical than the unicorn: the PERFECTLY compatible other half. You would have left if she was anything less instead of trying to find a workaround for the minor incompatibilities, no?

 

And for the love of Christ, stop with the 'As far as a girl I might be dating that has her own activities, friends or places to go.' yadda yadda crap. Nobody is talking about that, not even the OP! The only reason I mentioned your girl having her friends over on Sunday is because there'd be hypothetical clashes with your guyfriends for the TV. But evidently in that case you would leave instead of compromising by each of you alternating the day of the week.

[AverageJoe]

 

Errr. If you recall correctly I was the one talking about compromises, not shutting up and living with it.

Eh?

I believe you only have two choices then: break up with her immediately, or just shut up and live with it.

 

Look, you are all over the place here so I will try my best to address your concerns.

 

 

So you would leave without talking to her about it, and you think the OP should have done so with her bf as well (because it would be 'settling' for her to 'put up with' her bf's incompatible communication skills, right??). Well, I'd like you to riddle me this: How many LTRs have you had in your life?

 

Yeah, we would talk. I would explain she just is not the person for me and wish her the best of luck. I have done it just like that. I am not so arrogant to think that I can change the behavior of someone else.

I think the OP's boyfriend should have been the one to walk based on my opinions being expressed.

Been in four serious relationships and almost married two of them. And because of those experiences I have learned from the mistakes I made from those relationships that I will no longer compromise who I am.

 

I would be very, very amazed if the answer was even 1, because in that case you would have found a creature more mythical than the unicorn: the PERFECTLY compatible other half. You would have left if she was anything less instead of trying to find a workaround for the minor incompatibilities, no?

No one is perfect. And I am not referring to minor incompatibilities. I am talking about things that just will not work for me regarding behaviors or attitudes that I simply will not tolerate. I am out. Done.

Just because my mentality might go against the grain of social normality does not mean your perception of events is always the same for everyone.

But evidently in that case you would leave instead of compromising by each of you alternating the day of the week.

Unless I invite her there is no compromising or alternating of anything.

[Els]

Eh?

 

 

Look, you are all over the place here so I will try my best to address your concerns.

 

Is it so hard to understand? I compromise and advocate compromise. You say compromise is for twits. So I said there are only two choices that you have. Not me. I have the added option of trying to talk and work through things like adults before deciding to give up on a relationship. We clear now?

 

Yeah, we would talk. I would explain she just is not the person for me and wish her the best of luck. I have done it just like that. I am not so arrogant to think that I can change the behavior of someone else.

I think the OP's boyfriend should have been the one to walk based on my opinions being expressed.

Been in four serious relationships and almost married two of them. And because of those experiences I have learned from the mistakes I made from those relationships that I will no longer compromise who I am.

Ah, a bitter one. I see now. So if you have a communication issue with your gf, she should get up and walk because you're expecting her to compromise who she is. If you have an issue with your gf gaining weight, she should get up and walk because you're expecting her to compromise who she is. If you have an issue with your gf hanging out with guys in bars, she should get up and walk because you're expecting her to compromise who she is. Gotcha.

 

 

No one is perfect. And I am not referring to minor incompatibilities. I am talking about things that just will not work for me regarding behaviors or attitudes that I simply will not tolerate. I am out. Done. Just because my mentality might go against the grain of social normality does not mean your perception of events is always the same for everyone.

What? So what WILL you do about a minor incompatibility, then? Since compromise is evidently out of the question for you.

 

Unless I invite her there is no compromising or alternating of anything.

Oh, you've never lived together with any of your exes? Gotcha, again. Wrong stream of thought, my mistake.

[AverageJoe]

Is it so hard to understand? I compromise and advocate compromise. You say compromise is for twits. So I said there are only two choices that you have. Not me. I have the added option of trying to talk and work through things like adults before deciding to give up on a relationship. We clear now?

Yep. Live it up.

Ah, a bitter one.

 

Are you just trying to pick a fight with me?

 

Bitter? Quite the contrary. I do what I want, when I want as much as I want with whom I want anytime I want. I live alone and I love it. I get laid when I feel the need and I stay home when I feel the need. I can up and travel at the drop of a hat if the urge hits me. At this point in my life I have no need for a relationship, there is no benefit to it. What the hell could I possibly be bitter about?

 

I have been cordial in my correspondence with you until now.

 

You seem to be an argumentative shrew and when logic defies you, you resort to the bitter card. Guess what? It is over, we are breaking up. Take care and good luck.

[Els]

I merely got annoyed for the OP that you came in trolling her thread with false accusations, one-sided 'logic' and unrelated topics. Perhaps I shouldn't have fed you - my mistake. Anyhow, I am glad for you that you have no need of a relationship. Take care, too!

Edited February 26, 2011 by Elswyth

[Ay Diesel T]

Joe's logic isn't one sided. His logic applies to both parties involved in a relationship.

[zengirl]

Interesting. And all this time he didn't know there was anything wrong with him until he met you.

 

The things I said all came from things HE has told me about how HE felt. He beats himself up way more about this than I do, and then it causes him stress, and he withdraws from me. That is. . . pretty human. So, I'm not judging him for it.

 

And for the love of Christ, stop with the 'As far as a girl I might be dating that has her own activities, friends or places to go.' yadda yadda crap. Nobody is talking about that, not even the OP! The only reason I mentioned your girl having her friends over on Sunday is because there'd be hypothetical clashes with your guyfriends for the TV. But evidently in that case you would leave instead of compromising by each of you alternating the day of the week.

 

Yeah, I just think these sorts of examples don't really apply to the situation I had. There is a WORLD of difference between asking someone to give up an activity they enjoy and asking them to work with you to better something like communication or time together or something in the relationship in an open and partnered way. His example of incompatibility seems very sitcomish to me.

[zengirl]

Joe's logic isn't one sided. His logic applies to both parties involved in a relationship.

 

Don't you have me on ignore? I find it odd you're even in my thread. Not that I mind it, but it's odd. And you and Joe are talking about circumstances that have nothing to do with the factors that broke my now ex and myself up FWIW.

 

His logic does not apply to relationships where people believe in compromise, give and take, and growing together into compatibility. Which is what my ex claims to believe (I'm not saying he doesn't, but just stating I'm basing this on his own claims) and what I believe. It's not like he or I found one thing we didn't like and left. That is a totally different type of relationship style. Which generally doesn't lead to LTRs. My boyfriend already texted with, "This is rough. I miss you." (I don't know what to do about it -- because we're so NOT in a healthy place, but that's beside the pont.) So, it's not as though he walked away in a huff over football games. We're two people who are stuck in a bad cycle, perpetuated by us both, and (in my view; don't know about his) perhaps not insurmountable, but which is at the moment, irreconciled.

 

A true "break up" isn't as Joe describes just some clean-cut walkaway. The word "break" is in there for a reason. Something is broken. And how to heal it is the question -- whether the two parties are best healed together or alone.

Edited February 26, 2011 by zengirl

[AverageJoe]

Joe's logic isn't one sided. His logic applies to both parties involved in a relationship.

 

Absolutely. I think that got lost here.

A true "break up" isn't as Joe describes just some clean-cut walkaway. The word "break" is in there for a reason. Something is broken. And how to heal it is the question -- whether the two parties are best healed together or alone.

 

Yes and no. If someone has been in a relationship for a period of time and tolerating whatever ailment that is festering the relationship was there to begin with. It was already broken just unrecognized for whatever reason.

 

Why was it never addressed in the very first stages of companionship? I could be wrong but I find it hard to believe that just out of the clear blue all of the sudden these issues came to surface.

 

One of my points is why would someone see these things in the beginning stages (and it does not have to be a football game - that was one example jesus) and decide to continue on knowing that it could be a problem later on down the line.

Some have the mentality that they can change the others behavior, or maybe he or she will change, or as time passes they will see things your way. These are all complete fallacies in the realm of understanding what is acceptable to you and what is not. Who really thinks these things will just dissipate away? It seems some do and then just plain 'Ole settle. Knock yourself out.

 

You are with someone (if you let it get that far) and there is something that finally comes to a head and things start to go sour. BUT, you already knew this going in. Do people really not consider that these problems will actually become, uh problems?

 

So why compromise yourself at all? I could speculate and say some people are desperate for a relationship and acceptance from the opposite sex. There is probably some truth to that. So I now avoid it all together if I recognize she just isn't a fit. I think some others should save themselves the turmoil and eventual pain and recognize things for what they are without getting all caught up in the initial emotional aspect.

[zengirl]

Yes and no. If someone has been in a relationship for a period of time and tolerating whatever ailment that is festering the relationship was there to begin with. It was already broken just unrecognized for whatever reason.

 

I don't disagree that there was conflict that was being not properly recognized --- that's how most people get to the point of 'broken' whether a romantic relationship or not. Where you and I would differ is how we view and deal with conflict in relationships (or at least romantic ones---not sure how you approach conflict with friends or family).

 

Why was it never addressed in the very first stages of companionship? I could be wrong but I find it hard to believe that just out of the clear blue all of the sudden these issues came to surface.

 

Communication issues evolve over time. Communication at the front of a relationship is VERY different from communication 8 months in which I imagine would be VERY different from communication in a marriage. Relationships evolve over time. So do people. That's why your examples don't really stand up in some ways, with the Sunday and the football. That stuff is clear at the beginning. It's who a person is. Communication is about dynamics between people, which are always changing and ebbing and flowing. That's why conflict exists in the world, and a lot of it is fine and natural. An unhealthy amount is absolutely not.

 

I don't mind that you view the world, or relationships, differently than I, so this isn't an argument. I just want to see if you can get the difference between the two.

 

Do people really not consider that these problems will actually become, uh problems?

 

Every relationship will have problems. And I'm not just talking about romantic ones, though since they are usually amongst the closest of relationships, they have a plethora--- the closer the relationship, the greater proximity, the more problems are liable to pop up. It is how you DEAL with problems that determines the health. My boyfriend and I failed to deal with our problems, and they reoccurred. This is, of course, unhealthy. However, we have major outside stressors, and we push some buttons in each other that we could grow past. In other words, we both have some of our own **** to deal with. So, I don't think it was always destined to fail or go this way; just the combination of stress and our human failings.

 

So why compromise yourself at all?

 

I compromise in all relationships, not just romantic ones. I do so in order to get along with people in this world and be happier and more productive. Compromising the core of who you are is unproductive, but there is a big difference between that and being accomodating and open to change in situations and with people.

 

I'm not desperate for a relationship. I cherish the ones I've had, and I love people in general and developing connections with them. And I want to be married one day, ideally, but only if it feels absolutely right. However, I think it is a fantasy to think anyone will be a 'perfect fit' without some working together.

[Els]

Yeah, I just think these sorts of examples don't really apply to the situation I had. There is a WORLD of difference between asking someone to give up an activity they enjoy and asking them to work with you to better something like communication or time together or something in the relationship in an open and partnered way. His example of incompatibility seems very sitcomish to me.

 

Precisely. It's like:

 

Zengirl: I have this communication issue with my bf that doesn't seem to be resolvable.

 

Joe: Why are you asking him to compromise what he is?! The guy should break up with you for it. I would never compromise if my gf wanted me to quit watching football with my buddies because it's who I am!

 

Elswyth: That's not nearly the same thing. Would you say that you're making your gf compromise who she is if you try to work out an issue with her?

 

Joe: No, I'll never let a girl tell me what to do or put up with a girl doing anything I dislike! I can get any girl so why should I do that?? I would never compromise if my gf wanted me to quit watching football with my buddies because it's who I am!

 

Zengirl & Elswyth: Stop with the 'preventing guy from doing what he enjoys' issue already, dude, it's not applicable here.

 

Joe: No, I would never compromise if my gf wanted me to quit watching football with my buddies because it's who I am! I've been through x and y relationships and I've learnt that I should never give an inch!

 

[AverageJoe]

 

I don't mind that you view the world, or relationships, differently than I, so this isn't an argument. I just want to see if you can get the difference between the two.

 

 

 

Of course I get the differences. We all have choices. I choose not to compromise who I am regardless of how alien that may seem to some people.

 

If someone doesn't fit, they are out.

 

The more concessions we make in a relationship the greater the probability we are with the wrong person.

[zengirl]

Of course I get the differences. We all have choices. I choose not to compromise who I am regardless of how alien that may seem to some people.

 

If someone doesn't fit, they are out.

 

The more concessions we make in a relationship the greater the probability we are with the wrong person.

 

And you're still not seeing the difference in the views and showing it here.

 

Not everyone views compromise as a concession. You're making it about winning and losing when you describe it that way. I compromise to win. I don't see it as losing or conceding anything. It helps me get along with people. When I get along with people and still feel good about who I am and what I'm doing, when I give a little, and give to the worthy people that I care about, and it makes my connections with other people better (romantic or not), I win. I don't "concede" anything. I evolve for the better.

[AverageJoe]

And you're still not seeing the difference in the views and showing it here.

 

Not everyone views compromise as a concession. You're making it about winning and losing when you describe it that way. I compromise to win. I don't see it as losing or conceding anything. It helps me get along with people. When I get along with people and still feel good about who I am and what I'm doing, when I give a little, and give to the worthy people that I care about, and it makes my connections with other people better (romantic or not), I win. I don't "concede" anything. I evolve for the better.

 

I don't need anyone to make me feel good. Imagine that! Come hang out at my place any given day and that is the only way you could see proof positive my claim.

 

Never considered the win aspect of it, but yeah, win I like that. I win exactly what I am after.

 

In the meantime you can negotiate.

[AverageJoe]

He had growing doubts about your relationship and is probably feeling relieved you dumped him. Sounds like you need a guy more positive minded about the relationship even during disagreements.

 

Well, lets be honest. If she really compromised as she claims they would still be together. Right?

So, she really she does not compromise either. Good on her.

[zengirl]

I don't need anyone to make me feel good. Imagine that! Come hang out at my place any given day and that is the only way you could see proof positive my claim.

 

Never considered the win aspect of it, but yeah, win I like that. I win exactly what I am after.

 

In the meantime you can negotiate.

 

You are not a relationship-minded or people-minded person, and thus sound very selfish to me. Personally, that's not how I live my life, and there's a great number of people who are not selfish and CARE immensely about relationships (different kinds -- not just romantic) and the people in their lives. Your statements just don't apply because you're coming from a completely different place. I'd never even associate with someone like you in friendship or anything else. I have met people who are the way you describe yourself and it appeals to me not at all; we are just different sorts.

 

Well, lets be honest. If she really compromised as she claims they would still be together. Right?

So, she really she does not compromise either. Good on her.

 

Compromise in a relationship is a process that takes both people. In this case, he and I were not able to get on the same page. It is not to say that I did not compromise, or even that he did not. Your statements show a real lack of understanding of general relationship dynamics. Suffice it to say, most relationships are not like yours and most people are not so apathetic about their relationships as you are.

 

The way I understood the situation it wasn’t so much the fight, but his attitude towards the relationship with her. She wants to feel that the man she is with loves her regardless of disagreements. She wants the type of guy who doesn’t say stuff that sounds like he wants to break up.

 

I didn't want to be on the rollercoaster. One week he says stuff like he wants to marry me, one week like he wants to break up, whereas I was just wanting us to settle down, get comfortable, and be happy for awhile, as well as someone who could see the brighter side easier after a fight or help me during stressful times, rather than make it worse.

 

I know he had doubts about the relationship, yes. I also perhaps amplified them because I know this is his pattern in relationships around this time so I was expecting problems and I had stress in my own life. All bad. I don't know how he feels. Seems hard to believe it would be "relieved" since he is already texting me and trying to get me not to exchange stuff yet and wanting me to wait again. But I will not 'slow down' for him unless he makes a definitive statement (very soon) that he wants to truly, truly work on this relationship. I feel like a lot of this is coming from a place where it just hurts him, the idea that I'd be with someone else, and that's not a good reason to try again.

[Els]

You are not a relationship-minded or people-minded person, and thus sound very selfish to me. Personally, that's not how I live my life, and there's a great number of people who are not selfish and CARE immensely about relationships (different kinds -- not just romantic) and the people in their lives. Your statements just don't apply because you're coming from a completely different place. I'd never even associate with someone like you in friendship or anything else. I have met people who are the way you describe yourself and it appeals to me not at all; we are just different sorts.

 

Well, to be fair to him, it is indeed his prerogative to not want a relationship, and at least he realizes it and stays out of one instead of going into one with that attitude, with the ensuing definite failure and heartbreak for the other party. As long as he truly is happy with his life and doesn't mind being alone, who are we to say nay?

[zengirl]

Well, to be fair to him, it is indeed his prerogative to not want a relationship, and at least he realizes it and stays out of one instead of going into one with that attitude, with the ensuing definite failure and heartbreak for the other party. As long as he truly is happy with his life and doesn't mind being alone, who are we to say nay?

 

Oh, I agree entirely. Not trying to say he should live his life any differently; just pointing out the different perspective he doesn't seem to get, and that people who are relationship minded don't see compromise as losing or as some magic bullet.

[Kamille]

Zengirl is zen enough not to seem bothered by this, but I find it extremely tacky, tactless and tokenizing to use this thread, the one where she announces the end of a relationship with a man she loves, to advance your own agendas about "the problem with women" or the fact that "women are too sensitive" or that "women should stop trying to change men" or, as ADT has inserted in multiple other threads, that "women are insane". Are those beliefs so important to you that they're blinding you from seeing the heartbreak here? Are you going to monopolize every single thread on this site for the advancement of your own agenda?

 

On this very site, we have posters complaining about the lack of empathy for bitter men. Posters asserting that when it comes to empathy, women get a free ride. This thread sure proves the opposite.

 

that being said, Zen, I think you're handling this very well. I do have questions about the situation, namely about your sense that you can't be with a man who doubts the relationship. I agree with you that putting a relationship on the line is never a good idea. I've done it myself and had an ex do it to me. It made me realize how damaging such a reaction can be. However, I think that when couples struggles, it is allowed for one partner to express/feel doubts and for the other to keep believing in the relationship.

 

You seem adamant that you won't let this slow you down and that he has to make it up to you. As soon as he expressed doubts, you gave up on the relationship, instead of letting him work through them. It sounds like you require a pretty high level of loyalty. I'm left wondering if this serves a sense of self-protection for you. I'm not saying your reaction is wrong. I think it's perfectly legitimate. But I'm wondering if there is room for a bit of give and take here.

 

And if I understand correctly, you were fighting about how you communicate is that it?

Edited February 26, 2011 by Kamille

[zengirl]

I do have questions about the situation, namely about your sense that you can't be with a man who doubts the relationship. I agree with you that putting a relationship on the line is never a good idea. I've done it myself and had an ex do it to me. It made me realize how damaging such a reaction can be. However, I think that when couples struggles, it is allowed for one partner to express/feel doubts and for the other to keep believing in the relationship.

 

I would have no issue if he had expressed doubts but, in that moment, still been in the frame of mind that he wanted to give this relationship 100% to see if it was the real deal and if his doubts would fade. He wasn't there. He was distant, withdrawn, felt already gone, and he said he wasn't sure if we were headed for a break up or not, but he'd thought about it. NOW he seems not to want that as much, but maybe that is only because of the human reaction to not having something = wanting it. I don't really know.

 

You seem adamant that you won't let this slow you down and that he has to make it up to you. As soon as he expressed doubts, you gave up on the relationship, instead of letting him work through them. It sounds like you require a pretty high level of loyalty. I'm left wondering if this serves a sense of self-protection for you. I'm not saying your reaction is wrong. I think it's perfectly legitimate. But I'm wondering if there is room for a bit of give and take here.

 

It was the way he expressed doubts, and also his reaction after. The first conversation, I was calm and positive. Then, we had a date that felt like we were already exes, I pointed this out, and he said, "This isn't working." Then we started talking about breaks and break ups and doubts and somesuch. I told him I believed in the relationship at first, but that I needed a man who was in it with me. He didn't know that he could be that man. I don't need him to "make it up to me" as much as show me he IS that man. If he and I could both believe that, then we could get back together, if we both wanted.

 

And if I understand correctly, you were fighting about how you communicate is that it?

 

Kind of. We were having fights based on miscommunication. I noticed what was happening in a few of the fights and tried to direct us to more positive communication but feel I was carrying the brunt.

[heartshaped]

Zengirl, has he ever had doubts before in any of his past relationships to your knowledge? It seems that problem is stemming more so from how he handles issues more than the actually issues in your relationship.