Fighting, Stress, and Breakups

[Ay Diesel T]

How would you approach an issue with your gf that makes you angry, though? Would you completely hide your anger and say in a soothing tone, "Baby, how come you do/say xyz?"

 

I definitely would take that approach, as that's the approach that fetches more success, at least in my experience. I've tried the more direct, attack the problem head on approach and all it's ever done for me was cause more of an argument.

 

I wouldn't say it's hiding my anger at all, because I'm still going to be expressing it through conversation with her, but it wouldn't be more of an angry @ her tone, more of a "when you do this it kind of upsets me" tone. If I just come at her with anger, where will that get us?

[Woggle]

Honestly if you know what his intentions are but somehow still feel like he doesn't care isn't that an issue for you to sort out? I think it is for the best that you two breakup. Maybe he just doesn't want to deal with the drama right now.

[daphne]

I have come across a few instances of men saying this on the boards, and none of them as of yet have managed to provide concrete examples of how they would bring up issues they have with their SO in a 'neutral' way.

 

Here's to hoping you'll be the first.

 

I've heard this before as well and I think there are a few things to the neutral way. The tone of voice, most importantly. When you're critical, you're not going to get heard. Or when you nag. Either way, it comes across in the tone and it's pretty unhelpful in negotiating an outcome.

 

Also, avoiding inflammatory language. I wish you would consider how you talk to me (or whatever XXX is), because when you do that I feel YYY.

 

We've all seen this in work with other couples, but as women we know it's pretty hard to change the critical behavior when we're upset and not getting our way.

[Woggle]

Basically nagging sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher to your average man. They just shut down emotionally.

[Ay Diesel T]

Barring the OP, why do women nag at their man though? What causes you to do so?

[AverageJoe]

In some ways, we've basically been having the same fight over and over, and I feel kind of like he refuses to 'hear' me or compromise.

 

I haven't read all of your responses. But this stuck out for me big time.

 

Compromise. Such a simple word with a huge definition. I have heard women say this before and what I hear is, someone is trying to change me. Some girl has a problem with a behavior, personal belief, attitude or activity I may have. And probably like you, they already know these things of me going in. Yet, all of the sudden somehow sooner or later it becomes unacceptable. Really? Guess what...you can't change someone or who they are, their being. Get over that part and you might get somewhere. When women have tried that with me in the past I tell them where they can go. Away.

 

Compromise, I no longer compromise who I am. And it sounds to me like he understands this and it creates a problem for you. Thats right, your problem not his. You solve this problem within yourself or you do him a favor and leave.

[Ruby Slippers]

Compromise. Such a simple word with a huge definition. I have heard women say this before and what I hear is, someone is trying to change me.

I agree. A compromise is often a situation in which two people aren't quite happy.

 

I think a good relationship is basically like a good friendship -- for the most part, it falls into place.

 

If you have many bumps, and you keep hitting the same bumps, there's a structural mismatch that likely won't be changed, or will take a long time to change.

 

Sorry about your breakup. You sound healthy about it.

[Jannah]

I haven't read all of your responses. But this stuck out for me big time.

 

Compromise. Such a simple word with a huge definition. I have heard women say this before and what I hear is, someone is trying to change me. Some girl has a problem with a behavior, personal belief, attitude or activity I may have. And probably like you, they already know these things of me going in. Yet, all of the sudden somehow sooner or later it becomes unacceptable. Really? Guess what...you can't change someone or who they are, their being. Get over that part and you might get somewhere. When women have tried that with me in the past I tell them where they can go. Away.

 

Compromise, I no longer compromise who I am. And it sounds to me like he understands this and it creates a problem for you. Thats right, your problem not his. You solve this problem within yourself or you do him a favor and leave.

 

I agree. A compromise is often a situation in which two people aren't quite happy.

 

I think a good relationship is basically like a good friendship -- for the most part, it falls into place.

 

If you have many bumps, and you keep hitting the same bumps, there's a structural mismatch that likely won't be changed, or will take a long time to change.

 

Sorry about your breakup. You sound healthy about it.

 

I disagree. Mutual compromise is an integral part of any relationship, a lack of flexibility, is not. Sustaining and the like. As long as it doesn't infringe upon someone's core values/beliefs, of course.

[Star Gazer]

Anyway, I'm back up on a dating site (though don't know how active I'll be for awhile) and going out with friends a lot this week/end and getting back to my life as it looks now.

 

I think it is way, way, way too soon for you to be dating, ZG. It's been a day!

[daphne]

Barring the OP, why do women nag at their man though? What causes you to do so?

 

Is that a serious question? Honestly, because sometimes guys do some disturbingly thoughtless things. We often think you guys lack in common sense and what's obvious to us can take years for you guys to figure out.

 

Essentially, because of this we sometimes think you guys are kinda stupid. Don't flame me. You asked the question.

 

Put another way, how many women do you see trying out for Jackass?

[Jannah]

My problem is he cannot seem to adapt his communication style to different people, including me.

 

Okay this, sticks out for me. I recall the thread you made about the communication snafu with regard to scheduling appointments. He is an engineer, correct? Engineers have a completely different interpretation of things and their communication style. That would most certainly explain his explanation of the scheduling snafu you mentioned.

 

They like to solve problems. So, if he solves problems for a living, all day each and every day, he probably doesn't want to "solve problems" during his down time.

 

Maybe no more dating engineers for you.

[Ay Diesel T]

Is that a serious question? Honestly, because sometimes guys do some disturbingly thoughtless things. We often think you guys lack in common sense and what's obvious to us can take years for you guys to figure out.

 

Essentially, because of this we sometimes think you guys are kinda stupid. Don't flame me. You asked the question.

 

Put another way, how many women do you see trying out for Jackass?

 

 

Women make big deals out of nothing, as if men don't care. Lol, it always makes me laugh. That whole "Do you love me? You don't say it enough, show it enough" type of deal. What's up with that?

 

It's gotta be the estrogen.

 

That's why it makes 0 sense to some guys, and some guys don't really see it the way you do. Cause honestly, it seems like not even a big deal to some of us. But you guys get all worked up over nothing. Or ask questions that you already know the answer to. Like...you know your man cares for you, but you still give him hell about it cause he doesn't tell you he loves you everyday. Or maybe he doesn't do sweet things for you. But if he's with you, and cares about you...what's the problem? Why do you have to be shown that if you know it? Why do women want to be pampered and spoiled? Ugh lmao.

 

This is totally off-topic, or maybe not. The OP wants her boyfriend to compromise who he is to make her happy? Why? Why do women want their happiness through little annoying things? Can't a guy just be a guy and still love you? Why does he have to go out of his way to do these small pointless things to make you feel more secure in a relationship where you should already be feeling secure in?

 

Like I said, it's gotta be the estrogen.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Ay Diesel T

[zengirl]

It's not easy to be patient, or see the other person's side. But if you want to negotiate healthier patterns, try doing just that. He doesn't know why his communication skills suck. I doubt he's doing it specifically to make you upset. He has said he has tried to change, but it doesn't sound like he has the tools and at this point the will anymore.

 

No, the first time it came up, he said he could not change. He did say he'd tried in the past (long before he met me), but I guess that didn't 'count' to me because he wouldn't even give it a go WITH me. Looking back, there were a lot of little things like this where I was judged by the rules of relationships he'd already come up with along with other people. And he just took it way, way, way too seriously to where there was too much pressure. He is looking for someone to marry (as am I, eventually) but he is doing so with such intensity he cannot really go with the flow and he sees every fight as a 'doubt' as to whether it'll ever work out. To me, that was a little bit nerve-wracking.

 

If I'd felt I had a partner in him, even when we got to the 'break' part, I think it would be different. The 'break' was going to be a breakup. There was no guarantee that we'd be able to work things out in 3 weeks. He wanted to be 'away' from me and this, and I guess if that's what he wants, it's okay, but I cannot wait around for someone who isn't showing up in the relationship. That just doesn't seem fair. I'm sure I made some mistakes in the relationship -- I'm sure I will in every relationship. I don't think any are recurring issues for me, or places where it would necessarily be fatal to any relationship.

 

As to your points about putting the time in--- I would've put all the time and work in the world into this relationship if he were still showing up. But if he's not willing to show up, what can I do?

 

Are you giving ultimatums indirectly?

 

I don't give ultimatums. I tell how something makes me feel, and I try to explain why and ask for understanding and some way to get 'past' it. To my exBF, this felt stressful. And like work. I have never had the same issue with a guy before, in terms of my feelings coming across that way.

 

Honestly if you know what his intentions are but somehow still feel like he doesn't care isn't that an issue for you to sort out? I think it is for the best that you two breakup. Maybe he just doesn't want to deal with the drama right now.

 

I don't know what his intentions are. I know they are good, but I also know he has doubts about the relationship and stopped showing up. If you mean "know" his intentions regarding communication, I didn't really. I know in retrospect what he meant each time, but only because we discussed it. And when I say we had "fights" I mean we had mature conversations that were about our opposing feelings that stressed him out. I never raised my voice; he did a few times, but rarely; and we certainly never had a knockdown drag-out.

 

The drama created was manufactured in HIS psyche. I wish I'd had a better way to handle disagreements that wouldn't cause him stress, but I honestly cannot think of one except ignoring them. Which seems unhealthy to me.

 

Compromise, I no longer compromise who I am. And it sounds to me like he understands this and it creates a problem for you. Thats right, your problem not his. You solve this problem within yourself or you do him a favor and leave.

 

Well, it is over. So that doesn't matter. I never ask someone to compromise who they are. I do, however, ask for work, attention, and compromise in the relationship. If a person is so stubborn that they cannot bend or adapt to another person, then how could they ever form a real and lasting partnership? Two people don't magically connect and stay perfectly. They bend a little, give a little, and make themselves match up because the relationship is more important.

 

They like to solve problems. So, if he solves problems for a living, all day each and every day, he probably doesn't want to "solve problems" during his down time.

 

Maybe no more dating engineers for you.

 

Aw, I like engineers. And no, he loved solving problems. I think it comes down to the emotional level. At this point, he doesn't want to be in this relationship because his doubts have spiraled. I could've probably held onto him, and I am beyond sure he'll 'be back' at some point (not sure what will happen then), but he has no idea what he needs on an emotional level and no desire to give me what I need on that level, lately. Whatever happened, happened. I think between the outside stressors and our fighting, he just imploded a little emotionally. Looking back with a few days perspective now, I see it was coming.

 

I think it is way, way, way too soon for you to be dating, ZG. It's been a day!

 

It takes me a few communications to even think about dating someone, and I work all weekend this weekend. It'll be at least a week before I go on a date. And that's about right. I'm not really 'crushed' about this breakup; I'm confused, I'll miss him, and I wish the emotional level worked better because the other levels work. The emotional level of my relationship with my BF hasn't been working for awhile now, maybe since New Year's, so it's mostly losing the fun and friendship that hurts the most at this point.

[Els]

Women make big deals out of nothing, as if men don't care. Lol, it always makes me laugh. That whole "Do you love me? You don't say it enough, show it enough" type of deal. What's up with that?

 

It's gotta be the estrogen.

 

That's why it makes 0 sense to some guys, and some guys don't really see it the way you do. Cause honestly, it seems like not even a big deal to some of us. But you guys get all worked up over nothing. Or ask questions that you already know the answer to. Like...you know your man cares for you, but you still give him hell about it cause he doesn't tell you he loves you everyday. Or maybe he doesn't do sweet things for you. But if he's with you, and cares about you...what's the problem? Why do you have to be shown that if you know it? Why do women want to be pampered and spoiled? Ugh lmao.

 

This is totally off-topic, or maybe not. The OP wants her boyfriend to compromise who he is to make her happy? Why? Why do women want their happiness through little annoying things? Can't a guy just be a guy and still love you? Why does he have to go out of his way to do these small pointless things to make you feel more secure in a relationship where you should already be feeling secure in?

 

Like I said, it's gotta be the estrogen.

 

See, your posts are the reason I find it hard to believe that you always communicate thoughtfully, nicely, and sweetly to your gf when she does or says something that bothers you. Also, the reason I found it funny that you were giving advice to the OP that her saying, 'I feel xyz when you do xyz' isn't 'neutral' enough. Even people who post very tactfully and kindly (like the OP) can sometimes get annoyed at their SO and express it without a sugar-coating, although with sufficient self-control. What more someone who posts like you?

 

Then again, I could be wrong and you're just an asshat to strangers and an awesome, loving, caring bf who's never said a sharp word to his gf.

[Emilia]

And, to your example like the trash thing, I do certain things like that for him (stay away from his hot button rephrasing) but he has trouble doing it for me. He has severe communication/social anxiety that he's worked through for years, and he says if he censors himself, nothing comes out, so that's why he feels defeated before he even tries. I get it and find it sincere. I just don't LIKE it. So, his statements that he's not sure how compatible we are seem to hit me there. . . maybe we're not. . . I have to think, I guess. For me, it's more the issue that he's defeated before he even tries than that he's "bad" at changing his communication.

 

[...]

 

No, more issues that crop up while making plans, and such. Though he does often just try to "end" a conversation. I've explained that he can simply stop talking about it, instead of declaring he's going to, and that will end the conversation much less abruptly. He fails to 'get' that. His social skills are not super-adept in some ways, like that. He rubs a lot of people wrong because of it, even though he's super well intentioned. He also interrupts a lot! Which drives me batty.

 

it's your choice of men that's the problem. you come across as someone who is expressive and is comfortable with other people. you said somewhere that you preferred introverts/geeky guys. they will often have a very different communication style from yours and will feel 'put on a spot' when asked to express how they feel/what they think. they don't enjoy thrashing stuff out as much as you do

 

I'd say from the way you come across on this site you would be better off with outgoing/more social types. not all noisy ones are shallow you know

[welikeincrowds]

It takes me a few communications to even think about dating someone, and I work all weekend this weekend. It'll be at least a week before I go on a date.

 

Damn, I wish I had your resolve. It usually takes me much longer than a week to open myself up again.

[zengirl]

it's your choice of men that's the problem. you come across as someone who is expressive and is comfortable with other people. you said somewhere that you preferred introverts/geeky guys. they will often have a very different communication style from yours and will feel 'put on a spot' when asked to express how they feel/what they think. they don't enjoy thrashing stuff out as much as you do

 

I'd say from the way you come across on this site you would be better off with outgoing/more social types. not all noisy ones are shallow you know

 

Maybe, though I've dated many introverts and not had this problem. I am extroverted but I have an introverted side as well. I like going out, but I love having a SO who doesn't dig going out all THAT much (less than me is best). So the quiet guys work on that level.

 

I don't 'enjoy' thrashing stuff out. Interesting about the 'put on the spot' thing; I can see how my newest exBF would have felt that way, and it is perhaps something I should've thought about more. But if things that small could lead him to want to disconnect from a LTR, then I guess I underestimated either his investment in me or his emotional strength in general. As I said though, I'm pretty sure he'll regret it and return (his pattern of relationships, as is most of his friends) though not sure I can deal with that.

Edited February 25, 2011 by zengirl

[heartshaped]

As I said though, I'm pretty sure he'll regret it and return (his pattern of relationships, as is most of his friends) though not sure I can deal with that.

 

Have you resolved to be through with him for good zengirl if he shows remorse or you unsure?

[Els]

I haven't read all of your responses. But this stuck out for me big time.

 

Compromise. Such a simple word with a huge definition. I have heard women say this before and what I hear is, someone is trying to change me. Some girl has a problem with a behavior, personal belief, attitude or activity I may have. And probably like you, they already know these things of me going in. Yet, all of the sudden somehow sooner or later it becomes unacceptable. Really? Guess what...you can't change someone or who they are, their being. Get over that part and you might get somewhere. When women have tried that with me in the past I tell them where they can go. Away.

 

Compromise, I no longer compromise who I am. And it sounds to me like he understands this and it creates a problem for you. Thats right, your problem not his. You solve this problem within yourself or you do him a favor and leave.

 

Really? So if your gf does anything that bugs you, you either immediately walk away or forever live with it? There is no in-between?

 

Many happy failed relationships for you, then.

[zengirl]

Have you resolved to be through with him for good zengirl if he shows remorse or you unsure?

 

If he were to call me up today and say he regretted it and give me reason to believe he wanted to work on this relationship and not destroy it with doubts, I'd take him back, sure. He'd have to be direct and thoughtful and quick about it. I don't expect that openness to last, though. I close shop pretty quickly, emotionally, and I have trouble trusting again after much of a break. I'd want an actual break (some communication but a major slowdown) too in order to decompress if he came back, before we jumped back in, but I think he will likely come back 'too late.' Most men do. That's been my experiences with exes returning.

[Movingthrough]

I can tell you from a guys view that when something comes up over and over, we feel suffocated. I remember thinking to myself that this was never going to end and i would be "stuck" with it forever if i don't break it off or say something.

 

Guys don't sit on things as much as girls do, so we let it go time and time again, until it hits the point where something needs to be done.

 

Most have already said this but i would be blunt with him and say you do or dont want to make it work and what can we do to do that. If he is in anyway against it, let it go, he will have the time to think and you can go from there.

 

One thing i have learned from my breakup is do not "try" and make things work, if you see the flag, deal with it, go with it, and change it. If you cant, then let it go.

[AverageJoe]

Really? So if your gf does anything that bugs you, you either immediately walk away or forever live with it? There is no in-between?

 

Many happy failed relationships for you, then.

 

As a proviso I am not looking for a relationship. However, I do praise your remedial attempt in regards to a failed joust towards me.

 

If she bugs me? No, not really. I would say that if something bugs me it is no sweat really.

 

I was referring to someone trying to compromise who you are, a word commonly disguised as changing someone. When you hear someone ask for compromise it really means bending your own self to meet the needs of another's demands. Sometimes there is middle ground, sure. Many times not so true, I just happen to side with, many.

 

You did ask so allow me to explain.

 

Anytime I am dating a girl and she says things like, I'm not happy with this, I have a problem with you doing X, things about you I don't care for. Then they may continue on with a list. It's over.

Nothing else to say, I am not changing. To pretend otherwise is dishonest and not fair to her or me. Sure, everyone changes over time but I am the person I am in the now.

 

One example. I am a huge NFL fan and during the season on Sundays I have people over to my home, we watch the game in a nice big HDTV Plasma set with drinks, great food, lots of laughs and some sad moments when our team loses. I am doing it and nothing is going to change that.

 

I was dating a girl that had a problem with it. Her problem, not mine. She asked me to give that up after full well knowing what we did on Sundays. It was over. And that is just one example. I could list many more.

 

I have been much, much happier this way. I no longer compromise who I am or what I do. No one should.

[Sanman]

I don't know how much is pride and how much is getting what I need. That is something I have to sort out. With bad communication (which is where I want him to compromise more), I feel unimportant. And yet I absolutely 100% know I am NOT unimportant to him, and that the things I take issue with are not really a reflection on that. They just FEEL that way, and I wish he wanted to make me not feel that way enough to change, and I think part of him DOES but he is absolutely inert somehow on some areas. So, hence: Stress and fighting in circles.

 

Although I'm confused on what you mean about reciprocation --- are you saying to literally SAY "I'll give up on this fight, if you give me XYZ" like direct reciprocation, or are you just saying to compromise more fully here if he is good in other areas. I don't think I could enter a negotiation like the XYZ example; that seems odd.

 

Hey Zengirl, sorry to hear about the breakup. I wanted to comment earlier, but I haven't had the time. IME, things aren't going to end well if you are waiting for him to change. That is more fairytale than reality. I had some communication issues with my last ex. It simply devolved into her complaining about the fact I had not yet changed and I withdrawing in order to avoid slipping up and having to hear how I failed again. I have realized that with major issues like communication, change takes a long time it can get frustrating well before any change occurs. It is more likely that you two simply don't fit that well together in that area. It is up to each of you to decide whether it is easier to find someone who fits better in that area or stick it out. That said, patience is affected by all those outside stressors.

[zengirl]

Hey Zengirl, sorry to hear about the breakup. I wanted to comment earlier, but I haven't had the time. IME, things aren't going to end well if you are waiting for him to change.

 

I disagree with this notion that people never change or alter their behaviors; you're not the first on this thread to say they don't, but it is not true in reality. People change things to accomodate other people -- from lovers to strangers to family members to co-workers -- all the time. We're not talking about a fundamental change in who he is here; I'm talking about trying to work on his communication with me.

 

I want someone who wants to grow, evolve, and change with me for a happy relationship. If that's a fairytale, so be it, I guess, but I really think that's just a mature adult relationship.

 

I had some communication issues with my last ex. It simply devolved into her complaining about the fact I had not yet changed and I withdrawing in order to avoid slipping up and having to hear how I failed again. I have realized that with major issues like communication, change takes a long time it can get frustrating well before any change occurs. It is more likely that you two simply don't fit that well together in that area. It is up to each of you to decide whether it is easier to find someone who fits better in that area or stick it out. That said, patience is affected by all those outside stressors.

 

I agree that he and I didn't fit perfectly in this area. I can certainly find someone I can communicate with more easily. HE, on the other hand, has had the same issue with basically every girl he's ever dated long-term. I was willing to work on my side, but only if he was equally willing. I do think communication is something every couple will struggle with eventually.

 

I think I need to look at a man and see if he has a pattern of withdrawing when upset. Perhaps that is a red flag to avoid. Some women can better deal with that behavior; I am too direct. If I had let him withdraw for awhile, without saying anything, I'm sure we'd still be together, and probably even come out of it, but I am just not a person who sees a problem and ignores it.

[Els]

As a proviso I am not looking for a relationship. However, I do praise your remedial attempt in regards to a failed joust towards me.

 

If she bugs me? No, not really. I would say that if something bugs me it is no sweat really.

 

I was referring to someone trying to compromise who you are, a word commonly disguised as changing someone. When you hear someone ask for compromise it really means bending your own self to meet the needs of another's demands. Sometimes there is middle ground, sure. Many times not so true, I just happen to side with, many.

 

You did ask so allow me to explain.

 

Anytime I am dating a girl and she says things like, I'm not happy with this, I have a problem with you doing X, things about you I don't care for. Then they may continue on with a list. It's over.

Nothing else to say, I am not changing. To pretend otherwise is dishonest and not fair to her or me. Sure, everyone changes over time but I am the person I am in the now.

 

One example. I am a huge NFL fan and during the season on Sundays I have people over to my home, we watch the game in a nice big HDTV Plasma set with drinks, great food, lots of laughs and some sad moments when our team loses. I am doing it and nothing is going to change that.

 

I was dating a girl that had a problem with it. Her problem, not mine. She asked me to give that up after full well knowing what we did on Sundays. It was over. And that is just one example. I could list many more.

 

I have been much, much happier this way. I no longer compromise who I am or what I do. No one should.

 

I'm not asking about your girls asking you to change. I think your previous post made your point pretty clear on that already. I'm wondering about what YOU do about things your girl does that YOU don't like. IE you date a girl who insists on, every Sunday, having HER friends over as well, which causes some trouble with your friends. As you do not believe in making her compromise, I believe you only have two choices then: break up with her immediately, or just shut up and live with it. You have failed to say anything in rebuttal to this conclusion.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Elswyth