carhill Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Then start a thread about it. I'll be happy to offer perspective about it there. And be aware I take a very dim view of felons, of both genders. I think it'll be an interesting discussion. I know how much wrongdoing one likely has committed against society to end up in a prison, since I see it gotten away with every day. Ask any cop. I think the OP made a great distinction about 'wrong' being a descriptor. There are 'right' bad boys who are upstanding citizens and offer a certain persona which some women are attracted to. That's why I commented in the thread. Edited February 21, 2011 by carhill
zengirl Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Address my point to Zengirl. Would Ghandi... a generally agreed upon nice guy... be considered passive? Would Jesus Christ a generally considered really nice guy...have been considered passive? Take Ghandi out of your nice guy schtick. At least in the realms of relationships, he wasn't a 'nice' guy for most of his life. He beat his wife. As goes the saying "Hitler loved his dog, Ghandi beat his wife, people are complicated." Jesus Christ is a myth so far as I'm concerned, as a non-Christian. There is some evidence a man named Jesus lived and was crucified by the Romans, but no evidence to support the fairytale/religious doctrine/myth/whatever you want to call the story is a real one. So I can address neither of your examples, really. As far as the idea that only jerks are commanding, I, of course, disagree with that. Many men are commanding, confident, and also good, healthy, kind, worthwhile people. So if that was your point with the Jesus/Ghandi thing, we're in agreement there. At any rate, I agree with what Easy Heart said about most of the "nice guys" here.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I'm always bothered by the reference to women who have relationships with inmates even to the point of marriage as supporting the belief that women go for jerks. There are only 6 states that allow for conjugal visits and the inmate must be in excellent standing and already married when incarcerated. The people who connect with and marry someone after that someone is incarcerated don't get conjugal visitation awarded at the prisons in these 6 states. What it really implies is that there are less men than women willing to marry someone they won't have sexual access to. Big surprise there! Pointing it out without showing why it happens with women more often is misleading to the guys laboring under the delusion that they get rejected for being so "nice". My childhood friend J has a little brother. He did TERRIBLE with women. That kid was in the friendzone with every girl he ever liked. He wasn't a "nice guy" type though as he liked drugs and had a sour/sarcastic personality. Anyway... he went to prison at age 21 for Rape. He got out 3 years later and has so much success with women that it's mindblowing. He typically dates 2 at a time. He has no real job... pretty much lives off his parents. Even his attitude is the same. So, I used think the whole thing about women liking jailbirds as a bunch of crap... but I've been around enough to see it in action. It's usually younger women, uneducated women, and often women who have legal troubles themselves although sometimes it's the ultra goody 2 shoes type too.
carhill Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Interesting news story on jailmate love Looks like a prison nurse with five kids got in a bit over her head with a convicted rapist who was in prison for multiple rape convictions. He said, in his personals ad, in part: "I'm extremely passionate and my empathy is far and wide. Thus, I seek a woman of like makeup. She has to be compassionate, nonjudgmental." ------------ My exW's best friend is a registered nurse who works in the same prison, Corcoran, where Charles Manson is living out his life. She shared many 'stories' about prison life from the inside, and was married to a correctional officer in the same prison system. Bad boy stories I've heard plenty, including the vast variety of women they attract, from all socio-economic levels. IMO, these are the *wrong* bad boys to be attracted to, and won't waver in that opinion.
Mrlonelyone Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Interesting news story on jailmate love Looks like a prison nurse with five kids got in a bit over her head with a convicted rapist who was in prison for multiple rape convictions. He said, in his personals ad, in part: "I'm extremely passionate and my empathy is far and wide. Thus, I seek a woman of like makeup. She has to be compassionate, nonjudgmental." ------------ My exW's best friend is a registered nurse who works in the same prison, Corcoran, where Charles Manson is living out his life. She shared many 'stories' about prison life from the inside, and was married to a correctional officer in the same prison system. Bad boy stories I've heard plenty, including the vast variety of women they attract, from all socio-economic levels. IMO, these are the *wrong* bad boys to be attracted to, and won't waver in that opinion. Why what ever do you mean. Guys like that give a girl a sense of protection and femininty through their masculine dominance and leadership. It takes real guts and confidence to stab your lawyer during jury selection... Oh even I can't be that sarcastic. That story is just :lmao:
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Interesting news story on jailmate love Looks like a prison nurse with five kids got in a bit over her head with a convicted rapist who was in prison for multiple rape convictions. He said, in his personals ad, in part: "I'm extremely passionate and my empathy is far and wide. Thus, I seek a woman of like makeup. She has to be compassionate, nonjudgmental." Maybe it's the danger element. Just like guys that do crazy adrenaline sports like base jumping or sky diving...? Female adrenaline junkies like the thrill of the dangerous guy? It's one thing I really can't understand or sympathize with. On a side note... Why do women in this country seem to not care about their kids? You would think a woman with 5 kids would think about them first... and NOT attempt to bring a rapist home to live with them.
carhill Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Not to derail, but the real impetus for reading that news story came from a forum I ran across that was discussing it. Some of the comments reminded me so much of LS I had to read more. To wit: Poster A : Any more evidence needed that most women are self-destructive coonts? Show her a decent man and she'd run away so fast you'd hear the Doppler effect in "I see you as a friieeeeeend!" Women that CHOOSE men like this should have NO protection at all from society. You chose the guy, YOU deal with the consequences. Poster B: So what's the catalyst for the misogynistic wharrgarbl you keep amusingly venting forth? A cuckolding? A rejection? A Facebook friend request in unbearable limbo?I realize the story subject is serious but the commentary just had me ROFLMAO. OK, onward. Don't want the nice guys to get up too much head of steam... Oh, also, for balance, during a particularly low dating period around 15 years ago, I did look up a then new web site called womenbehindbars, where female inmates posted personals ads. Never actually did anything about it, but I did think about it. The old 'everyone is worthy of love' socialization. I got over it. The only California women's prison with a death row is less than an hour's drive, in case I change my mind. Edited February 21, 2011 by carhill
EasyHeart Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) @ Easy heart Address my point to Zengirl. Would Ghandi... a generally agreed upon nice guy... be considered passive? Would Jesus Christ a generally considered really nice guy...have been considered passive? Being nice does not being a boring lump. In my book being nice is a set of actions, and a way of acting towards people. Some of you here have confused being nice with being in a coma.No, not at all. We're just acknowledging that "nice" means something different in the context of dating than it does in common conversation. When a woman doesn't want to date a man because he is "too nice", it doesn't mean that he's too kind or too considerate, or that she wants men to abuse her and treat her badly. It means that the "nice" guy is insecure and that he acts needy and desperate. The problem is with the guy, not the woman. And just to add to zengirl's comments, I don't think that the British Empire thought Ghandi was too nice, nor did the Roman Empire think Jesus was too nice. And since Ghandi is famous for advocating "Passive Resistance", we probably could call him passive. Edited February 21, 2011 by EasyHeart
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 ] Jesus Christ is a myth so far as I'm concerned, as a non-Christian. There is some evidence a man named Jesus lived and was crucified by the Romans, but no evidence to support the fairytale/religious doctrine/myth/whatever you want to call the story is a real one. So I can address neither of your examples, really. It's easy to believe in nothing.
Woggle Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Women will dump you. Women will cheat on you. Women will take advantage of you. Women will be attracted to men who are smarter, richer or better-looking than you. Get used to it, because it happens to all of us. The difference is whether you sit around feeling sorry for yourself or whether you deal with it and move on. . So we should just accept the fact that according to you women by nature are not trustworthy and we should just be perfectly okay with being betrayed because attractive men accept it? You are insulting women worse than I ever do by saying that they are cheaters by nature.
mtber75 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Like when a man like to chase woman! Some woman like "bad" boys I guess for the challenge/thrill to be with guys who have little impulse control? But they'll grow out of it when they want to settle down? That's went nice guys like me comes along:)
Woggle Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I have never known a true scumbag that struggled with women. I used to work with a woman back in the day at a record store who cheated on and walked all over every man she dated accept one. The one was a drug dealer who was known for being a woman beater. One day he got nabbed by the cops and she paid his bail plus stripped on the side to help pay for his defense and visited him once a week in prison. The day before visiting day she would be so giddy and she never cheated on him once prison. She also offered to stash his drug supply at her place in case his house got raided. Of not all women are like this but this type of dynamic is very common.
Bj099235 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I think there's too much generalization of overly nice guys/doormats. Too much bashing. I don't think it's fair. Edited February 21, 2011 by Bj099235
Mrlonelyone Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 It's like my Eharmony personality profile said.... People who are selfish react negatively to people who are less selfish because such people put the more selfish person in a bad light. Suppose you have a materialistic woman (or man) who is all about being for #1. If such a woman (man) tried dating a baptist missionary who spends most of his (her) energy taking care of the sick, poor, and indigent in Haiti ... what would she say about him (or her)? More than likely they wouldn't date such a person... he (she) would be too nice for them. Even being in the presence of such a person would feel like one long guilt trip to such a selfish woman (or man). It's so simple truly nice guys (and girls) who are basically selfless should not even waste their time with mean girls (or bad boys) who are basically selfish. A big part of the problem with these discussions is that about half of the people use "nice" when they really mean "spineless doormat". Which confuses the other half who think of nice and think of just plain nice and polite people. @ Woggle. The problem is that some guys take a few examples like that and run with them. The truth is women like that one are dysfunctional and anyone who's remotely sane, much less nice, is better off without them.
Author LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 21, 2011 Author Posted February 21, 2011 I think the context of "nice" is misrepresented. When you say nice guy, do you mean someone who is kind and gentle? Or do you mean someone who is manipulative? This is where us guys get confused, because we think that women mean one thing, when they mean something else. If you don't want it to be misunderstood, be honest, for god's sake. Don't tell us we're "nice", when you don't think we are...or when it's another reason why you're dumping us.
Woggle Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I know she is dysfunctional but the truth is I have never seen a criminal type struggle with women. I have never seen a player struggle with women either.
Author LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 21, 2011 Author Posted February 21, 2011 I know she is dysfunctional but the truth is I have never seen a criminal type struggle with women. I have never seen a player struggle with women either. Neither have I. But it's not a popular opinion around here, so I keep my trap shut after this.
zengirl Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Ghandi was nice ....just not perfect. I'm going to go with wife-beating being a ways beyond "imperfect." It's not like leaving wet towels on the floor. It's easy to believe in nothing. Not actually an agnostic. There are many other religions in the world. You know that right? Not that it's the point of the thread, mind you. Besides, it's actually exceedingly difficult to be an atheist and believe in nothing; I know many of them, and they usually only got there through exhaustive thinking, which is not true of many of the Christians I know. FWIW.
EasyHeart Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 So we should just accept the fact that according to you women by nature are not trustworthy and we should just be perfectly okay with being betrayed because attractive men accept it? You are insulting women worse than I ever do by saying that they are cheaters by nature.Of course I never said anything remotely like that. But pretty much all men (at least the ones who've dated a fair number of women) have encountered cheaters and the other things I listed. It's part of life. Everyone deals with adversity; your character comes out in how you deal with it. I'm sure men do the same to women, but I don't date men, so I don't know.
blind_otter Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 I know she is dysfunctional but the truth is I have never seen a criminal type struggle with women. I have never seen a player struggle with women either. Correlation is not causation. They may not struggle because they have lower standards, or simply not care. Not caring does not necessarily imply that they have fulfilling or even happy relationships.
Woggle Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 Correlation is not causation. They may not struggle because they have lower standards, or simply not care. Not caring does not necessarily imply that they have fulfilling or even happy relationships. This is true but the men who do care certainly don't seem very happy with a few exceptions.
blind_otter Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 This is true but the men who do care certainly don't seem very happy with a few exceptions. Maybe the men who do care are not happy because they focus their expectation of internal happiness on an external source? I know the guys that do care who seem at ease are those men who are most at ease with themselves. A lot of times they have wrestled their demons and conquered them. Art_Critic comes to mind... You have flashes and I must say are light years beyond where you were when I first started reading your posts. Kudos to you, Woggle. You've come a long way and I am impressed.
somedude81 Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 Some women have absolutely terrible people pickers. It's much more common to see a normal girl with a bad guy then a normal guy with a bad girl. Why is that?
blind_otter Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 Some women have absolutely terrible people pickers. It's much more common to see a normal girl with a bad guy then a normal guy with a bad girl. Why is that? Generally speaking women are socialized to find certain traits sexually attractive - social dominance, physical stature, deep voice, the ability to acquire goods and resources. It's not necessarily about wanting those things for herself, in an evolutionary sense these overt characteristics tend to reflect traits that have been favored in producing offspring that survive. We are, after all, human animals. Men are socialized to find traits attractive that are not generally equated with a "bad girl." Being soft, feminine, yielding, submissive, youthful, with clear skin and a fertile appearance are attractive to men, and not many women like that can really throw a punch.
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