irc333 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 ...fool around with men they aren't attracted to (physically)? I just found out, the woman that I was seeing, apparently, she's into the friends with benefits thing....and there came a time where, Sat night...she called me and asked if I could come over to stay the night. That's where I spoke with her about how I didn't like doing that, and I felt I needed to have to be dating someone in order to do that. And I asked her, "And you're not wanting to date now, right?" and she goes, "Right." I then refused to come over, and decided to stay at my place, and she was kind of suprised because MOST guys would jump at the opportunity to come over and "fool around". But, I just couldn't deal with fooling around with a woman that I wasn't dating. We got to talking more, and apparently she's always fooled around or even wound upd ating guys she wasn't physically attracted to. That she admittedly thought her self-esteem was SO low, that physical attraction in a man wasn't an issue with her. She mentioned her ex-husband, she wasn't physically attracted to,and she was married to him for almost 10 years (why? I have no idea - anyone here care to enlighten me? And the last guy she dated for a year, I kind of knew of him, he's DEFINATELY not attractive, rather scary looking. He's a relatively decent Joe, apparently he helped her through her divorce...he was good friends to both her and her husband for years. Her dating pattern suggests she's wound up dating guys she was friends with over time, rather than any kind of "spark" situation. I was rather confused, because, "Hey, great, she's not shallow, and not into good looking guys...or doesn't take phyiscal attraction as the ONLY thing to consideration." BUT - then finding out she dated UN-attractive men, due to her low-self esteem....does that mean, if she ever gets into a point n her life where her self-confidence is up, she'll ignore guys like me? LOL I was still confused, because she said she had female friends she'd kind of criticize for being shallow for saying things like "He's too short to date" or "he's not hot enough to date"...she was appalled their shallowness. And I thought, "Well, I guess if you were more self-confidence, appearances would be an issue too? She's rather pretty actually....and I've seen the guys she's dated, they were rather avereage looking So is it true, that a woman with low self-esteem will not care about looks? See, I was confused, because most women that don't like me in "that way"...woudn't even let me touch them...but this one will? She can stomach unattractive men touching her? Still confused about this actually, so maybe someone who knows or can relate?
kdark Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 People with low self esteem feel they aren't worthy of having high quality partners, and so they set the bar very low, because they feel that's all they deserve.
I Luv the Chariot OH Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Well 6 years ago, when I signed up to LS as an insecure teenager, I was with a guy I wasn't physically attracted to (although he did have a lot of other good qualities which I appreciated). Nowadays I would never settle for a man I didn't find super attractive. I never really saw a correlation between that and self-confidence, but I guess I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.
jane100 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 I always had low self-esteem. But I only pursued men I found attractive. But attractive does not equal high quality.
EasyHeart Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 BUT - then finding out she dated UN-attractive men, due to her low-self esteem....does that mean, if she ever gets into a point n her life where her self-confidence is up, she'll ignore guys like me? LOL I was still confused, because she said she had female friends she'd kind of criticize for being shallow for saying things like "He's too short to date" or "he's not hot enough to date"...she was appalled their shallowness. And I thought, "Well, I guess if you were more self-confidence, appearances would be an issue too? She's rather pretty actually....and I've seen the guys she's dated, they were rather avereage looking So is it true, that a woman with low self-esteem will not care about looks? See, I was confused, because most women that don't like me in "that way"...woudn't even let me touch them...but this one will? She can stomach unattractive men touching her? Still confused about this actually, so maybe someone who knows or can relate?Don't try to understand people with low self-esteem. You will never figure them out. The basic laws of cause and effect simply don't function in their brains. But also don't confuse self-esteem with self-confidence; they are different things. Anyone can lose confidence -- getting dumped, getting fired, getting sick, losing a competition -- but it's a transitory situation from which we recover. Low self-esteem results from severe emotional trauma, usually at a very young age, and no one can recover from it without years of very specialized psychological treatment.
LittleTiger Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Low self-esteem results from severe emotional trauma, usually at a very young age, and no one can recover from it without years of very specialized psychological treatment. Actually that's not strictly true. Low self-esteem is usually formed earlier in life but it can also occur later on in adulthood if someone is abused on a fairly long-term consistent basis. It doesn't have to be 'severe emotional trauma' either but it does have to be something that's well embedded into a persons psyche. It's also not always necessary to have specialised psychological treatment. If an individual is aware of their low self-esteem they can take steps to 'cure' themselves quite effectively. To answer the OP, there may be some truth in what you say for some women but I don't think it's universal. There could be other reasons why a woman chooses to fool around with men she's not attracted to - perhaps she rarely meets men she's attracted to but enjoys fooling around - as a recreational activity and for the pleasure of physical contact. Provided she's not actually repulsed by the man, then why not? In fact that sounds similar to many men - they'll sleep with any woman who'll say yes - just to get sex. Does that only apply to men with low self-esteem? Somehow I don't think so. Also just because a man may be physically good to look at does not necessarily make him attractive. I've met lots of good looking guys who did nothing for me in the sexual attraction department. I've also met lots of not so good looking guys who I thought were 'sex on legs'.
GooseChaser Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Well, shoot, I guess I can only date Brad Pitts now, or else I have low self-esteem! Oh wait, that would make me superficial! Quite the conundrum...
Author irc333 Posted February 21, 2011 Author Posted February 21, 2011 Actually that's not strictly true. Low self-esteem is usually formed earlier in life but it can also occur later on in adulthood if someone is abused on a fairly long-term consistent basis. It doesn't have to be 'severe emotional trauma' either but it does have to be something that's well embedded into a persons psyche. It's also not always necessary to have specialised psychological treatment. If an individual is aware of their low self-esteem they can take steps to 'cure' themselves quite effectively. Yes, she does recognize here behvior, and she's kind of a shamed to admit it. She's a good woman, honestly, a good friend, we have a lot in common in values and beliefs, I can talk bout almost anything to her, and her to me, she's a great friend. She does try to get me to look at her boobs, today, she said, "Have you noticed the low-cut blouse I'm wearing?" I'm like 'Um, yeah'.....she's been known to do this with me a lot to get a "rise" out of me or something. We have fun together, but.....I think if perhaps in an alternate reality or if circumstances were different, we'd make a good couple. She claims we have NOTHING in common interest-wise, like she's into little foo-foo, girly things , owns a white cutsey dog, very girly girly, won't watch "Boy movies" as she calls them. Is kind of embarassed by a male nerd's interest in Sci-Fi, lol. She is fun to be around, but she feel doesn't need to date at all, and I agree with her. She's having hard time dealing with her ex's new girlfriend moving into the house she moved out of (the house she started her marriage and life with her ex husband) and now can't stand the woman for "taking over" the place....she is seen as a replacement. And can't standt he idea of her ex-husband moving on with his life with a new girl, while she is cooped up in a dinky apartment. She can't be happy for her husband, and blames him for making her miserable, she says he tends to push her buttons though with saying how wonderful he's enjoying himself with the new gf that moved in with him. And V-day didn't help matters much for her mood either. She is fun to be around, when she' s not depressed though....she can't stand being single, and when she was married, she was married for a long time, and is having a hard time dealing with not being "co-dependent" and now independent. She still needs a man to help her in mechanical and "manly" things around her place. To answer the OP, there may be some truth in what you say for some women but I don't think it's universal. There could be other reasons why a woman chooses to fool around with men she's not attracted to - perhaps she rarely meets men she's attracted to but enjoys fooling around - as a recreational activity and for the pleasure of physical contact. Provided she's not actually repulsed by the man, then why not? In fact that sounds similar to many men - they'll sleep with any woman who'll say yes - just to get sex. Does that only apply to men with low self-esteem? Somehow I don't think so. I think this is why women can deal with sleeping with ugly men that have money, is this a similar comparision, they can stomach sleeping with an ugly or elderly man with money, as long she gets the cash to pay for nice things. I don't know of any men that will sleep with an ugly or elderly woman, even though she is loaded...I could be wrong, but I hardly ever hear of this, it's mostly the hot babe with the old tycoon, or the rich, greasy haired guy with money. I don't think a man could stomach sleeping or fooling around with a 300 lb woman with the cash flow. I am wondering if this is the same analogy, because men are more visual than women ( women are mental/emotional ). They are on a different level on what motivates them to sleep with a guy (even though she isn't remotely physically attracted. Maybe I make her smile and laugh and she likes talking to me, and of course...I'm a "nice guy" lol? That's good enough I suppose? Also just because a man may be physically good to look at does not necessarily make him attractive. I've met lots of good looking guys who did nothing for me in the sexual attraction department. I've also met lots of not so good looking guys who I thought were 'sex on legs'. Interesting to know...actually. I just could not go on with it, because I just feel it's a shame if I do.
LittleTiger Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 She does try to get me to look at her boobs, today, she said, "Have you noticed the low-cut blouse I'm wearing?" I'm like 'Um, yeah'.....she's been known to do this with me a lot to get a "rise" out of me or something. ............................. She can't be happy for her husband, and blames him for making her miserable, she says he tends to push her buttons though with saying how wonderful he's enjoying himself with the new gf that moved in with him. And V-day didn't help matters much for her mood either. She is fun to be around, when she' s not depressed though....she can't stand being single, and when she was married, she was married for a long time, and is having a hard time dealing with not being "co-dependent" and now independent. Ok, well with this additional information I'd say she's still hurting from her break-up with her husband and marital breaks ups can do enormous damage to someone's self esteem. She is looking for external validation of her attractiveness since her husband has rejected her and now has another woman. Hence the low-cut blouse etc. It's quite common for women to go out and look for no strings sex when they split from a long term partner, especially if the split wasn't their choice. They often feel discarded and are looking for someone/anyone who still wants them and desires them. I would say she's just looking for someone to cling on to because she's feeling lonely and unloved. I am wondering if this is the same analogy, because men are more visual than women ( women are mental/emotional ). They are on a different level on what motivates them to sleep with a guy (even though she isn't remotely physically attracted. Again, I think you are generalising. Of course there are patterns of behaviour that are common in men and other, entirely different, patterns that are common in women, but these are not universal. Some women are very rational and logical and some men are very emotional........and the motivation to have sex with someone is probably different in every single situation. A great smile, sparkling eyes, a wicked sense of humour, intelligence, self-confidence, integrity, a kind and caring personality etc etc, can all be just as attractive to a woman as any physical qualities a man may have. So don't assume that a good looking woman on the arm of a less good looking man must have either low self-esteem or be after the contents of his wallet, because you're probably way off base.
Author irc333 Posted February 21, 2011 Author Posted February 21, 2011 Ok, well with this additional information I'd say she's still hurting from her break-up with her husband and marital breaks ups can do enormous damage to someone's self esteem. She is looking for external validation of her attractiveness since her husband has rejected her and now has another woman. Hence the low-cut blouse etc. Yeah, actually her last long term relationship was with a guy for a year, he was actually good friends with BOTH of them (at the time they were a married couple), and she said that he helped her through her marriage. I get the feeling, for this reason, is the reason she dated him. Like her way of thanking him for being there for her. But even during that time she was still not over her divorce. Even 3 years after her divorce, she still is having a hard time with it.
Leeway Harris Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Good Lord. I would never put up with something like this. I can understand somebody wanting to feel attractive after a breakup, but this is just disrespectful and frankly cruel. I'm glad you had enough self-respect not to give her what she wanted, irc333. I understand she's a friend and you care about her, but building her up by cheapening your own worth is bad for you. Why the hell would a man want to hook up with a woman who isn't attracted to him? It boggles the mind! Can you imagine the same from a woman? "Hey, girl, I think you're unattractive, but I'm totally willing to do it with you, just to boost my own ego. Are you game?" "Yeah, sure. Hey, it's sex, right? Can't go wrong with that!" Preposterous.
Author irc333 Posted February 22, 2011 Author Posted February 22, 2011 Why the hell would a man want to hook up with a woman who isn't attracted to him? It boggles the mind! Can you imagine the same from a woman? "Hey, girl, I think you're unattractive, but I'm totally willing to do it with you, just to boost my own ego. Are you game?" "Yeah, sure. Hey, it's sex, right? Can't go wrong with that!" Preposterous. Hey, the last guy she dated for a year, she wasn't attracted to, physically that is....but loved him anyway. And her ex-HUSBAND, she didn't find him physically attractive either. She's only dated ONE guy that she thought was absolutely HOT, and he was a jerk....and I think she related good looking men to guys that are jersk, so I guess that's why she's attracted to physically unattractive men, because they don't treat her like crap. In my case, and I think in the case of her last relationship, we made her feel comfortable, if you can make a woman feel comfortable with you, the physical can go out the door. I also made her laugh, enjoyed my company, etc etc I have to say though, she was my type physically (guess that's why I trying to "feel her out" during that time....she had a nice set of jugs, nice curves up and down her body, and the best part, a VERY pretty face and smile....her smile made me melt) What I liked about her, we never held back in the most ridiculous conversations, she even laughed at stupid bathroom humor. lol She admits her faults, she admits she's clingy/needy. Even though she told me she wasn't looking for someone, she'd kind of add on, "Well, somethign COULD happen" Then we had ac onversation later, where she tagged on "....well, if something did happen between us, if we started dating, I'm not sure it would be for the right reasons." And she'd probably fall into the same pattern she did with previous boyfriends. We only fooled around twice, then I had to say No to her the 3rd time about staying over, although I did have lunch with her, and she was till making passes at me. LOL. She would laugh when I wouldn't cave, she was suprised, because most men would jump at the opportunity. But I keep telling her, "Hey, you're not helping your recovery by doing this, just sayin" and she agreed "Yeah, I know" How I wound up with her was when I met her through friends a while back at a real event, then later I contacted her online throgh FB, we chatted , but she was seeing someone seriously.....I eventually lost touch for almost a year, then out of the blue she contacts me and wants me to join her to an event somewhere....I figured she'd might've gotten "better", but apparently not...and Valentines day didn't help matters, since it was a reminder of her husband calling off the marriage. I am hoping for her, I had seen she's received great support from her friends at her church, sending her encouraging messages and the like....and they're pulling for her, too (so I'm not the ONLY one that's aware of her situation) She's a great person, but just needs to over come some things. Are you game?" "Yeah, sure. Hey, it's sex, right? Can't go wrong with that!" Preposterous. Seriously, that's what I thought, and I think any guy would "go for it", but when push came to shove, with me.....I realized the reality of the situation kicked in.
GivenUp0083 Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 IRC, why ware you still talking to this girl. It's like you're trying to justify her not wanting to go out with you by her having problems. Like it's HER fault for not liking you. Look at all your other posts about this girl (and don't say it's not the same girl because it's obvious). You can discredit her all you want, make her look like trash, low self-esteem, lack of respect for men, use men for hooking up, use men for dinner, stupid in her decisions, etc.....but it won't change the fact that SHE DOESNT WANT TO DATE YOU. How is it you have such a hard time realizing this? Just because she doesn't want to date you doesn't mean you have to find a million things wrong with her, just move on with your life. I'm sure you're not half the catch you think you are either.
fishtaco Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 You can discredit her all you want, make her look like trash, low self-esteem, lack of respect for men, use men for hooking up, use men for dinner, stupid in her decisions, etc.....but it won't change the fact that SHE DOESNT WANT TO DATE YOU. Way to miss the point there. Anyway irc333, give me her number. I'm exactly the low quality type of guy she's looking for.
Author irc333 Posted February 22, 2011 Author Posted February 22, 2011 Wel, I still TALK to her, because she calls, but I've already communicated to her that I don't want to do anything intimate with her. So that's another chapter closed there. But I have no qualms with talking with her. I realized it now, that she doesn't want to date me, and thus me putting up boundaries. It is done. IRC, why ware you still talking to this girl. It's like you're trying to justify her not wanting to go out with you by her having problems. Like it's HER fault for not liking you. Look at all your other posts about this girl (and don't say it's not the same girl because it's obvious). You can discredit her all you want, make her look like trash, low self-esteem, lack of respect for men, use men for hooking up, use men for dinner, stupid in her decisions, etc.....but it won't change the fact that SHE DOESNT WANT TO DATE YOU. How is it you have such a hard time realizing this? Just because she doesn't want to date you doesn't mean you have to find a million things wrong with her, just move on with your life. I'm sure you're not half the catch you think you are either.
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