LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 It's true that I don't get dates. The last girl I asked out, she gave a vague answer, "Well, I'm really busy right now and can't really get together"...yeah, she definitely was blowing me off. Strangely, it was the fact that I saw her checking me out that made me approach her. Guess I'll never do that again... It's useless to say that I'll confess all this stuff on a date, because I've never even been on a date! And all my friends don't know what's up - half of them assume I'm gay, and the other half assume I'm asexual.
somedude81 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Wow. You don't know me and you just called me stupid. Yep, nice guy. lol wut? Context. A guy telling a woman in person about his relationship problems is stupid. I have no idea how you thought I was calling you stupid... The last girl I asked out, she gave a vague answer, "Well, I'm really busy right now and can't really get together"...yeah, she definitely was blowing me off.That's just her trying to be nice. Women don't like to say no. And that makes things even harder for nice guys. We don't speak womanese and may misunderstand a no as something else entirely. Edited February 20, 2011 by somedude81
P&R Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 There is a difference between being a nice guy, and a spineless, sad sap, self loathing, bitter wimp.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 There is a difference between being a nice guy, and a spineless, sad sap, self loathing, bitter wimp. Yes, but there is also a difference between a confident and assertive man and a jerk player who uses and abuses women. Shame that women can't seem to tell the difference.
sweetjasmine Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Yes, but there is also a difference between a confident and assertive man and a jerk player who uses and abuses women. Shame that they can't seem to tell the difference. Who's "they"? Some of us have learned to spot the difference. I love how just about every "nice guy" thread has at least a few self-professed "nice guys" acting like jerks or saying jerkish things. It's best to distinguish between niceguys and genuinely nice guys. The former usually aren't so nice after all.
somedude81 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Who's "they"? Some of us have learned to spot the difference. I love how just about every "nice guy" thread has at least a few self-professed "nice guys" acting like jerks or saying jerkish things. It's best to distinguish between niceguys and genuinely nice guys. The former usually aren't so nice after all. That's because the genuine nice guys are usually bitter due to their lack of success with women. Also they can't vent their frustrations in person as that is social suicide so they do it anonymously on forums.
P&R Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Yes, but there is also a difference between a confident and assertive man and a jerk player who uses and abuses women. Shame that they can't seem to tell the difference. Everyone is on their best behavior in the dating stages, it is often hard to distinguish what a persons intentions are. You also make a huge leap from confident/assertive to jerk player. The best thing to do is not label yourself as the nice guy. Label yourself as you, be true to yourself, label yourself as Muse not "a nice guy". There are ways to be assertive and not be a jerk about it.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 That's because the genuine nice guys are usually bitter due to their lack of success with women. Also they can't vent their frustrations in person as that is social suicide so they do it anonymously on forums. Bingo! Jasmine, do you honestly think I tell women all these things? That I've never been on a date, never had sex, never kissed, etc? Of course I don't. However, I never get anywhere, so it's become a reality for me. People who have been dating since they were 13 or 14 can't understand it. People that lost their virginity in their teens can't understand it. It's become a full blown phobia with me, and every year is worse.
P&R Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 That's because the genuine nice guys are usually bitter due to their lack of success with women. Also they can't vent their frustrations in person as that is social suicide so they do it anonymously on forums. I think many of these so called "nice guys" do themself a diservice by labeling themselves as a "nice guy".
sweetjasmine Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 That's because the genuine nice guys are usually bitter due to their lack of success with women. I've met genuinely nice guys who weren't bitter and who had success with women. I've met genuinely nice guys who didn't have success with women and were frustrated but who didn't turn into niceguys. The niceguys I've met, however, were the kind of people who think that treating a person well and not being a scumbag should automatically earn them whatever it is they want, and they get angry and resentful when it doesn't happen. Having been on the receiving end of some anger and frustration from a niceguy who thought he deserved to 'have' me by sheer virtue of treating me with respect, there's hardly anything nice about that kind of behavior, and, really, it's just as jerky as the stereotypical "bad boy" behavior.
WTRanger Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 It's funny to hear all the "nice guys" complain how they haven't been on dates since Regan was President. If you are so nice, people would like to be around you. But you are just lacking confidence and bitter about it. So, projecting your failures onto women is much easier than looking at yourself in the mirror. Any guy that claims his niceness is the reason he can't get women is just the biggest self-loathing hack since the dawn of man.
P&R Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 I've met genuinely nice guys who weren't bitter and who had success with women. I've met genuinely nice guys who didn't have success with women and were frustrated but who didn't turn into niceguys. The niceguys I've met, however, were the kind of people who think that treating a person well and not being a scumbag should automatically earn them whatever it is they want, and they get angry and resentful when it doesn't happen. Having been on the receiving end of some anger and frustration from a niceguy who thought he deserved to 'have' me by sheer virtue of treating me with respect, there's hardly anything nice about that kind of behavior, and, really, it's just as jerky as the stereotypical "bad boy" behavior. You said everything I wanted to say but didn't know how Jasmine! I agree fully here. Those Nice Guys are manipulative scumbags and I have no pity for them.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Bingo! Jasmine, do you honestly think I tell women all these things? That I've never been on a date, never had sex, never kissed, etc? Of course I don't. However, I never get anywhere, so it's become a reality for me. People who have been dating since they were 13 or 14 can't understand it. People that lost their virginity in their teens can't understand it. It's become a full blown phobia with me, and every year is worse. Well, it's like learning how to ride a bike when you're 15 instead of 5. When you're 5 you're ok with falling off the bike a lot because everyone is, and besides you've got years of childhood left to figure it out. But when you're older it's embarrassing and you're trying to catch up to where everyone else is and you get impatient. I'm going to stick with what I wrote in another thread and say that the problem with the stereotypical "nice guys" that everyone seems to hate is that they have little practice and for whatever reason dating has stopped being fun for them. They usually don't resort to niceness as a tactic but rather for lack of having anything else to go with and when even that doesn't work yeah they get bitter and resentful. Some at women specifically, but most just at their general situation. And usually internet forums are good for venting these types of frustrations because a) guys don't usually talk to their friends about these types of things and b) you hang out with friends to forget about your frustrations not to bathe in them.
threebyfate Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 My husband is a cool man who treats people with respect and gets it back. He's excellent with communication, compromise and de-escalation which are his first choices. But try screwing with him and he shuts down. Try to keep screwing with him and you WILL regret it 'cause there's a lethal side to him. Love the balance of cool guy and don't mess with me. He's got my back and I have his. We're a team.
somedude81 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 I've met genuinely nice guys who weren't bitter and who had success with women. They're not bitter because they've experienced success. I've met genuinely nice guys who didn't have success with women and were frustrated but who didn't turn into niceguys. Huh? The niceguys I've met, however, were the kind of people who think that treating a person well and not being a scumbag should automatically earn them whatever it is they want, and they get angry and resentful when it doesn't happen. Having been on the receiving end of some anger and frustration from a niceguy who thought he deserved to 'have' me by sheer virtue of treating me with respect, there's hardly anything nice about that kind of behavior, and, really, it's just as jerky as the stereotypical "bad boy" behavior. Everybody has a breaking point. I did something very similar years ago to somebody who was a good friend. I basically told her that I couldn't keep being her friend if she wouldn't sleep with me. I had a huge crush on her for many months and hanging out with her was starting to become emotionally painful. I immidetely regretted my words but the damage had been done.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 How many times does it have to be said? Men don't wake up bitter and resentful. It's a learned habit.
threebyfate Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 How many times does it have to be said? Men don't wake up bitter and resentful. It's a learned habit. No. It's an effective coping tool.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 No. It's an effective coping tool. Tell me how in the hell I'm coping, because I feel like ripping my hair out!
sweetjasmine Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Huh? Meaning I've met men who haven't had much success and have felt frustrated but who didn't turn into niceguys. Everybody has a breaking point. Another time was way back in high school. Niceguy asked me out to prom, and I gently and politely said no, tried very hard not to hurt his feelings. He was so frustrated and angry about it that later that day, he punched a mutual friend of ours in the arm over some unrelated mini-argument. She was shocked. How "nice" of him. I did something very similar years ago to somebody who was a good friend. I basically told her that I couldn't keep being her friend if she wouldn't sleep with me. The message that sends is, "I was only being nice to you so that I could get you to spread your legs." How's that nicer than the d-bag at da club who's playing women?
threebyfate Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Tell me how in the hell I'm coping, because I feel like ripping my hair out! Unless you're a sock puppet or revived banned member, I don't know your background. But bitterness and resentment only cause you to hurt yourself since you're going to jump the gun on any girl who you have any feelings for. You're going to assume the worst, even though it might or might not happen and literally make it happen.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 The pattern that seems to happen is: Alpha Male - Raised to disrespect women and treat them as sex objects - Women are attracted to said disrespect and his narcissistic, cocky personality - Alpha male gets lots of dates Nice guy - Is raised with good morals and values - Treats women with kindness and acts like a total gentleman - Is sweet - Women react negatively to said traits, because they view niceness as passivity - Nice guy gets frustrated and begins to question why he's single - He wonders if he was raised with the wrong values? - He becomes increasingly bitter about it That is, in essence, what creates the bitterness in nice guys. Women create it. Not the guy themselves.
somedude81 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 I think many of these so called "nice guys" do themself a diservice by labeling themselves as a "nice guy". What else should I call myself? Somewhat social awkward though normal looking dude who has lots of trouble with women but can still makes friends with them? Nice guy is pretty much the perfect description. BTW, there are different types of nice guys. Some are more manipulative than others. It's funny to hear all the "nice guys" complain how they haven't been on dates since Regan was President. If you are so nice, people would like to be around you. Nice guys don't have problems making friends. Of course making a woman want to be your friend, and making her want to sleep with you require vastly different skills. But you are just lacking confidence and bitter about it. So, projecting your failures onto women is much easier than looking at yourself in the mirror. Any guy that claims his niceness is the reason he can't get women is just the biggest self-loathing hack since the dawn of man.Why is he a hack? Either way, the reason nice guys don't get women is not because they are nice, it's because they don't know how to be "mean" which is, going for what they want and risk upsetting somebody else, causing trouble. Well, it's like learning how to ride a bike when you're 15 instead of 5. When you're 5 you're ok with falling off the bike a lot because everyone is, and besides you've got years of childhood left to figure it out. But when you're older it's embarrassing and you're trying to catch up to where everyone else is and you get impatient. that the problem with the stereotypical "nice guys" that everyone seems to hate is that they have little practice and for whatever reason dating has stopped being fun for them. Wow, that's very insightful. You're right, for me, dating isn't fun. How can anybody enjoy Meet a girl Talk, flirt maybe form a connection Ask her out "I have a boyfriend", "I'm really busy", "I don't like you like that", "Give me your number instead." Or if I get real lucky I might actually get one date, then I hear: "I don't want to date anybody." Or the girl just might dissapear of the planet. Dating is full of dissapointment. Then I keep hearing about how easy girls have it and it's almost impossible for me not to become jealous of them and bitter. I'm going to stick with what I wrote in another thread and say They usually don't resort to niceness as a tactic but rather for lack of having anything else to go with and when even that doesn't work yeah they get bitter and resentful. Yup they don't know what else to do. In all my years of trying to date, I have found many ways that don't work, but not a single one that does. The process of trial and error is just completely frustrating.
threebyfate Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Like I said, you're only hurting yourself, especially with those silly generalizations. You're going to keep failing at life and with women until you realize that women, like men, come in all sizes, shapes and attitudes.
sweetjasmine Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 It's more like: Nice guy - Listens to what other people say and takes into consideration that his perceptions may not be 100% accurate Niceguy - Convinces himself he's absolutely 100% correct and refuses to listen to anything that doesn't blame women for his problems
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 It's more like: Nice guy - Listens to what other people say and takes into consideration that his perceptions may not be 100% accurate Niceguy - Convinces himself he's absolutely 100% correct and refuses to listen to anything that doesn't blame women for his problems No, the only difference between the two is that women gave the first guy a chance, so he didn't become bitter.
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