dammit all

[joey66]

Hello to everyone. Haven't been here in a long time. I hope everybody is doing well.

 

I had lunch today with a very nice young lady. Completely innocent. Two friends having lunch. Really. No really. I feel guilty about it. And I don't.

 

It just seems like I can't live without drama.

 

(Aside: I am willing to stipulate up front that I am a pathetic excuse for a human being. No need for venom.)

[Emme]

*Emme gives Joey a honesty cookie*

 

 

Why do you feel guilty and how many times did you think about having sex with her during your lunch?

[Sharon1961]

Hello to everyone. Haven't been here in a long time. I hope everybody is doing well.

 

I had lunch today with a very nice young lady. Completely innocent. Two friends having lunch. Really. No really. I feel guilty about it. And I don't.

 

It just seems like I can't live without drama.

 

(Aside: I am willing to stipulate up front that I am a pathetic excuse for a human being. No need for venom.)

 

Why exactly are you posting in this forum? More drama?

[White Flower]

Hello to everyone. Haven't been here in a long time. I hope everybody is doing well.

 

I had lunch today with a very nice young lady. Completely innocent. Two friends having lunch. Really. No really. I feel guilty about it. And I don't.

 

It just seems like I can't live without drama.

 

(Aside: I am willing to stipulate up front that I am a pathetic excuse for a human being. No need for venom.)

Joey, I haven't been here in months and I saw your post so here I am. It must be fate.

 

And I will answer your question with honesty and dignity because you came here for answers, not venom. This freaking place has changed and I won't be coming back, but I did want to answer you.

 

You are not really happy. You are trying to fill a void and the need to fill that void is not going to stop until you find it. You've tried with your wife, but it proved to be not enough. This cycle will repeat itself until you've found it babe.

 

Good luck.

[joey66]

Emme - How many times? Not even once. Honest. Do I want to have sex with her? Of course I do. She is an attractive female and I am an entirely heterosexual male. That's just background noise.

 

WF - How has this place changed? And thank you for your honesty. You might even be right. Good luck to you, too. In all things.

 

And finally, Sharon - You ask a fine question. I was asking myself the same thing as I began this thread. So I shall try to answer you honestly. (Be careful what you ask for ...)

 

When I began here I was in love with an MW who, IMO, was interested in me, too. It was my first experience with such a thing. I was proud to say that I wasn't a serial MM. She abruptly withdrew and it hurt like h*ll. I needed to talk about it. To vent, to cry, to whine. And there are a lot of people here who understand that sort of thing. I appreciate all the support I got.

 

Now this lunch. With a single woman who is significantly younger than I am. (And she knows that I am MM. At least I can say I never mislead her.) She is leaving our town soon, never to return. We hit it off immediately. She has been very friendly. Very, very friendly. It's an I'm-leaving-town-and-why-not? kind of friendly. So I had lunch with her. We talked easily, with no mention of anything untoward. But there was a definite undertone.

 

For my part, I do not understand why I can't walk away from things like this. It confuses me. But I like her very much. I think we could have a torrid A, not just about sex, during the time she has remaining here. And I can't seem to stop thinking about it.

 

Why do I feel guilty? With MW, at least she was M, too. I wasn't the bad person, or I wasn't the ONLY bad person. Today was different. This woman is single. Perhaps that and the fact that she is younger are why I feel guilt. Oh, and because I am MM, the scourge of the Earth.

 

And this place is all about A issues. I have friends here. Or I did at one time. It seemed natural to come back and discuss it. But WF's comment indicates otherwise.

[carrie999]

Emme - How many times? Not even once. Honest. Do I want to have sex with her? Of course I do. She is an attractive female and I am an entirely heterosexual male. That's just background noise.

 

WF - How has this place changed? And thank you for your honesty. You might even be right. Good luck to you, too. In all things.

 

And finally, Sharon - You ask a fine question. I was asking myself the same thing as I began this thread. So I shall try to answer you honestly. (Be careful what you ask for ...)

 

When I began here I was in love with an MW who, IMO, was interested in me, too. It was my first experience with such a thing. I was proud to say that I wasn't a serial MM. She abruptly withdrew and it hurt like h*ll. I needed to talk about it. To vent, to cry, to whine. And there are a lot of people here who understand that sort of thing. I appreciate all the support I got.

 

Now this lunch. With a single woman who is significantly younger than I am. (And she knows that I am MM. At least I can say I never mislead her.) She is leaving our town soon, never to return. We hit it off immediately. She has been very friendly. Very, very friendly. It's an I'm-leaving-town-and-why-not? kind of friendly. So I had lunch with her. We talked easily, with no mention of anything untoward. But there was a definite undertone.

 

For my part, I do not understand why I can't walk away from things like this. It confuses me. But I like her very much. I think we could have a torrid A, not just about sex, during the time she has remaining here. And I can't seem to stop thinking about it.

 

Why do I feel guilty? With MW, at least she was M, too. I wasn't the bad person, or I wasn't the ONLY bad person. Today was different. This woman is single. Perhaps that and the fact that she is younger are why I feel guilt. Oh, and because I am MM, the scourge of the Earth.

 

And this place is all about A issues. I have friends here. Or I did at one time. It seemed natural to come back and discuss it. But WF's comment indicates otherwise.

 

Joey, I'm somewhat new here, so I don't know you, but I'll be your friend :-)

 

I was surprised by the venomous responses to my posts initially, and then I learned that this was par for the course, since many BS feel the need to unleash some of their anger and animosity towards their wayward spouses on everyone who is partaking in an affair. That hasn't driven me away yet, because so many others are here not only to seek advice, but to listen and help others in similar situations.

 

To comment on your dilemma, unless there are deeper feelings for this young, attractive woman, it sounds like you're just a normal guy (or woman, for that matter) who is entertaining fantasies and the idea of someone new. You wouldn't necessarily feel guilty for thinking this way if you didn't carry some residual guilt from having a prior A.

 

While it's probably best not to get involved with this woman, you shouldn't be flogging yourself for being tempted, especially since it would be an arguably briefer and less complicated A than the one that drove you here to "vent, to cry, to whine." Again, I know nothing about you that you haven't posted here, but it doesn't sound like you're fulfilled by your marriage. It's probably better for you (forget about everyone else) to deal with that.

 

I certainly won't judge you for whatever decision you make, and I hope you keep posting here.

[tami-chan]

E

For my part, I do not understand why I can't walk away from things like this.

 

Because you are dissatisfied and unhappy and how you feel about your life right now is unacceptable to you. So either do something about your life or continue to be vulnerable to outside forces....

[Emme]

Emme - How many times? Not even once. Honest. Do I want to have sex with her? Of course I do. She is an attractive female and I am an entirely heterosexual male. That's just background noise.

 

So this is your home. It's actually good to get a married mans perspective make sure you stick around I might have questions for you.

 

Now about the "not even once." You are trying to tell me every time she spoke to you and you looked at her lips you had no bad thoughts. When you looked at her neck or breast nothing rushed to the brain. Take another minute think it over.

 

As far as her being single would you rather have the similarity of shared guilt if she was married. Would that have made todays lunch more successful?

[whichwayisup]

J, you need to do some soul searching and of course, keep posting here.

 

What lead you to allow yourself to start feelings for another woman (again) ? What's going on inside of you, that's made you want turn to someone else? All I ask is, please don't blame your wife, that whatever is going on in the marriage, isn't your justification of why you're going down this path again. Ask yourself what you learned through your last affair and why you're putting yourself in another situation that is going to cause alot of drama and heartache.

 

It is a good thing she's leaving, I have a feeling if she wasn't, there would be an A starting up again.

[Sharon1961]

And finally, Sharon - You ask a fine question. I was asking myself the same thing as I began this thread. So I shall try to answer you honestly. (Be careful what you ask for ...)

 

When I began here I was in love with an MW who, IMO, was interested in me, too. It was my first experience with such a thing. I was proud to say that I wasn't a serial MM. She abruptly withdrew and it hurt like h*ll. I needed to talk about it. To vent, to cry, to whine. And there are a lot of people here who understand that sort of thing. I appreciate all the support I got.

 

Now this lunch. With a single woman who is significantly younger than I am. (And she knows that I am MM. At least I can say I never mislead her.) She is leaving our town soon, never to return. We hit it off immediately. She has been very friendly. Very, very friendly. It's an I'm-leaving-town-and-why-not? kind of friendly. So I had lunch with her. We talked easily, with no mention of anything untoward. But there was a definite undertone.

 

For my part, I do not understand why I can't walk away from things like this. It confuses me. But I like her very much. I think we could have a torrid A, not just about sex, during the time she has remaining here. And I can't seem to stop thinking about it.

 

Why do I feel guilty? With MW, at least she was M, too. I wasn't the bad person, or I wasn't the ONLY bad person. Today was different. This woman is single. Perhaps that and the fact that she is younger are why I feel guilt. Oh, and because I am MM, the scourge of the Earth.

 

And this place is all about A issues. I have friends here. Or I did at one time. It seemed natural to come back and discuss it. But WF's comment indicates otherwise.

 

Hi Joey, Thanks for the response. I just logged back in and was glad to see that you had explored your feelings a bit. That is what I am using this forum for myself. To figure out myself a bit.

 

I'm not sure what White Flower was talking about. I used to be on this site more often (although not in OW/OM) and there were always obnoxious people, hurt people, broken souls. And sometimes they lash out. But there are also caring people who give heartfelt, supportive interaction.

 

I have to admit that one of the reasons I asked that question is because I thought you were here to taunt the OM/OW. To play with people. I did not realize you had once been an OM yourself.

 

And your situation is funny because I came back to LS in part because I found myself in a similar (albeit the other side) situation. I am single and have been spending a lot of time talking to a guy I know who is married. The conversations have changed over time and it feels like we're getting closer and he is getting attached.

 

Funny similarity - I am leaving town soon. And part of me thinks wouldn't it be great to have a scorching affair with him first. And we really like one another so it wouldn't be just about sex.

 

What I came to learn on this forum and through other scoping out I've done online is that MM don't befriend single women in "that" way (and I think we all know when undercurrents switch) for platonic friendships or for real, healthy love.

 

It is about bringing a third party into a two person relationship in order to fulfill a need - or attempt to really. Because intellectually we both know it wouldn't work. But it is really heady, isn't it. And what you would be doing to this girl is beyond horrible. Not to mention what it would do to you.

 

Anyway, keep working through this.

 

Edited to mention that I have decided to withdraw from my situation with this guy. And I haven't heard from him for a few days so I hope he has come to the same conclusion.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Sharon1961

[joey66]

Emme - I absolutely did not think about having sex with this woman while I was having lunch with her. Not once. Zero times. I know it's unusual, and probably hard to believe, but it really isn't about sex for me. Not saying I'm opposed to the sex, only that it isn't the main thing.

 

wwiu - I do not blame my W. She is a good woman and we have a good relationship. (I know many of you would say that the fact I am even comsidering this A would suggest otherwise.) Also, I think the fact that the young woman in question is leaving makes an A more likely, not less.

 

sharon - Not here to taunt anyone. (Unless they really, really deserve it. ) I think anyway that in general I have a lot more in common with OWs and particularly MOWs than with typical MMs.

 

I don't think that I would be doing anything more to this young woman than she would be doing to me. She has a (long distance) boyfriend. She is very assertive and confident. If this thing were to happen, and I give it about a 75% chance, I definitely wouldn't be using her anymore than she would be using me. In fact, I think I'm the one who is more likely to develop a serious emotional attachment.

 

eta: sharon - I wouldn't bet on your MM coming to the conclusion that you have decided to withdraw. I think assuming that he will is wishful thinking. Men are simple creatures who do better when things are spelled out very clearly.

Edited February 19, 2011 by joey66

[Minnie09]

Wow, Joey! Where in the world do you get all these women from, and how do you get that close to them? It's amazing to me how that works so easily for some people, even despite them having a marriage/family/job and whatnot. It's a miracle, really.

 

So you say your M is good, your W is kind, everything is all right at the home front? So what's missing? Where does your GIGS come from? And have you ever thought about the consequences? Duh, of course. But I mean: What would you do if W found out and/or she decided to cheat, too? What would you do? You say the "new" girl is assertive. So you're attracted by assertive women? Is your W independent, assertive and confident?

 

Interesting, too: You are afraid of getting too attached to the OW, so it's not the other way round (like you're afraid of an OW getting too clingy).

Are you bored? An emotional thrill-seeker? Running from something? Yourself?

Need female validation from outside the M? Insecure? Have you ever talked to anybody about these issues?

[Sharon1961]

I don't think that I would be doing anything more to this young woman than she would be doing to me. She has a (long distance) boyfriend. She is very assertive and confident. If this thing were to happen, and I give it about a 75% chance, I definitely wouldn't be using her anymore than she would be using me. In fact, I think I'm the one who is more likely to develop a serious emotional attachment.

 

eta: sharon - I wouldn't bet on your MM coming to the conclusion that you have decided to withdraw. I think assuming that he will is wishful thinking. Men are simple creatures who do better when things are spelled out very clearly.

 

Joey, I can tell you from the perspective of a woman who is getting ready to leave town that the idea of a relationship with a MM is at its most enticing.

 

For me, I don't want to get involved with someone who is available and who has roots here. That would mean a choice. So, a MM seems like a low risk because what are the odds that he would try to keep you from leaving! He can't presumably.

 

In my little fantasy world I could have a torrid little something with him and I could keep my focus on what I want to do next in my life. I could move on having spent the last couple of months here with a pleasant diversion.

 

But what are the odds it would work out that way? For either you or me. I know for me I could be haunted by the image of his wife and two little children. And it scares me even more to think I might not. That I could detach that way.

 

I think you probably would end up emotionally attached. Because you know she's leaving and you can't have her that would make it all the more intense.

 

Being the one who is leaving makes it much easier but still dangerous.

 

Thank you for your perspective on this guy. I have decided to avoid contacting him until I leave if I can. I might need to contact him for work but will try and put that off as long as possible so he has time to stop thinking about me first.

 

From what you're saying though I might hear from him so I need to figure out what I will do then.

 

Thanks!

[Emme]

Emme - I absolutely did not think about having sex with this woman while I was having lunch with her. Not once. Zero times. I know it's unusual, and probably hard to believe, but it really isn't about sex for me. Not saying I'm opposed to the sex, only that it isn't the main thing.

 

 

WOW! That's all I can say. You have self control... how do you do it! For you I guess you enjoy the company of women. The conversation of possibly feeling wanted or needed. I bet you give her great advice on issues she's having in her relationship or about life. That's what so appealing to you about her. Wisdom is sexy . Well try to stick around I will have some MM questions for you if my situation turns ugly.

[Heather1]

I just think NSA will backfire one day. Out of my real life girlfriends, with men, 4 out of 5 are bunny boilers. Not full on, but will make life difficult for sure. You're not playing w/ good odds.

[pureinheart]

Hello to everyone. Haven't been here in a long time. I hope everybody is doing well.

 

I had lunch today with a very nice young lady. Completely innocent. Two friends having lunch. Really. No really. I feel guilty about it. And I don't.

 

It just seems like I can't live without drama.

 

(Aside: I am willing to stipulate up front that I am a pathetic excuse for a human being. No need for venom.)

 

(((((((((((((Joey))))))))))))), good to hear from you...I had to read down because I had forgotten your story.

 

Is it about "drama"? With you...NO. You are not into drama...and FTR it's not always about wanting drama it's about a void like WF mentioned. I don't have anything profound, but we love ya, and so glad to see ya!

[pureinheart]

So this is your home. It's actually good to get a married mans perspective make sure you stick around I might have questions for you.

 

Now about the "not even once." You are trying to tell me every time she spoke to you and you looked at her lips you had no bad thoughts. When you looked at her neck or breast nothing rushed to the brain. Take another minute think it over.

 

As far as her being single would you rather have the similarity of shared guilt if she was married. Would that have made todays lunch more successful?

 

The MM are invaluable and are not in here that much due to many factors.

[secretlady76]

Joey Joey Joey......you always seem to rock up when I too have my head spinning....

 

I wonder if your situation has anything to do with the person in question any more and is in fact more about the feelings these naughty scenarios create. You love the thrill, the drama, the stress, the tension. You love talking about it, thinking about it, fantasising about it. Each scenario is more risque and you thrive on it. You are now seeking out these relationships, you know you are.

 

I can't believe you just happened to have lunch with this woman. These things are pre-planned, conversations take place and your friendship gets to a level where you decide you need to have time just the two of you. You are on a slippery slope. She has nothing to lose, you do, not that you seem to be that bothered about that bit, after all, you've got away with it before, why would this be any different?

 

You were in love with your MW, I believe that, but you lost her. You miss those feelings she created.....are you trying to re-create a little bit of this?

[joey66]

Such insightful answers. This is why I treasure this place and love you guys.

 

Minnie - Wow. You don't happen to be a shrink, do you? (Please don't answer.) All these women? Hardly. I see guys who are serial (which I guess I am now) MM, predator (which I definitely am not) types and wonder the same thing - where do they find all these women? No, my wife is not assertive.

 

"Bored?" Probably. "Need female validation from outside the M?" This is as close to a correct answer as I have ever found. I do seek out female validation. Heaven alone knows why.

 

sharon - I get the whole thing about how an A with an MM is appealing when you know you are leaving. It was clear from the first time we met that we are ... compatible. Surely the fact that she decided to have lunch with me means that the idea of an A has crossed her mind. (Regarding the lunch, the closest we came to addressing the issue head on was when she asked "Why?" I said, "Because I like you.")

 

pih - Good to hear from you, too. I appreciate all your kind words. But I know for a fact that you are wrong about the drama part. I need drama in my life. Not just in regards to male/female relations, but in other areas, too. I am a drama queen. (Emphasis on "drama." Queen not so much.) I have come to accept this about myself.

 

I wonder if your situation has anything to do with the person in question any more and is in fact more about the feelings these naughty scenarios create. You love the thrill, the drama, the stress, the tension. You love talking about it, thinking about it, fantasising about it. Each scenario is more risque and you thrive on it. You are now seeking out these relationships, you know you are.

 

sl - DAYUM! This exactly. It's like an addiction. You always did seem to understand better than I did. Great to hear from you, too. How's things with you?

[Heather1]

"Bored?" Probably. "Need female validation from outside the M?" This is as close to a correct answer as I have ever found. I do seek out female validation. Heaven alone knows why.

 

I can relate to this. I'm hoping I learned a lesson from my A, and not that I opened a door that I can't shut. Can you tell your W? I say that because my H is OK w/ what's happening w/ me. He knows about my childhood & my R history & knows there was no way I was coming away unscathed. If your W would flip out, then don't, but maybe she'd understand? The only person I'm lying to is xOM, he doesn't know my H knows.

 

Anyway, just be careful.

[Heather1]

Great...that was post 666!

 

Just to be clear, I don't think talking to the BS is the best idea!! Seems like I've been saying "talk to the BS" lately, but it's only because of the situations those people are in. If you want to continue, have at it. If you feel bad & want to change & not do this anymore, maybe your W can help & support you in that? Or recognize your need & open the M?

 

Or...just be careful & discreet, ya know?