Carm Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 Hi All, I'll try to make this short. A gf contacted me before the Xmas holidays, I hadn't spoken to her in over 7 years. I had weeded her out of my life because she was so high maintenance, she needed so much attention, when I didn't return her calls promptly she'd get mad, etc. etc. We go back about 20 years, I was her maid of honour when she married 12 years ago. On our first phone conversation, she told me she was unhappy in her marriage and that she missed me and wanted to get together, and I thought what harm would it do. We met for a coffee and I filled her in my life (I summed it up in 10 minutes) that I had a four year relationship full of betrayal and infidelity (on his part) and that I was just starting to get on my feet again. The rest of the time she told me how unhappy she was, her husband is not a good listener, he gained tons of weight, she wasn't attracted to him any longer and that one year ago she met a man in a coffee shop, he tells her how beautiful she is and within a few days she is having sex with him AND to boot a few weeks after meeting him she meets another man and she starts having sex with him as well. Fast forward to today, she is still in an unhappy marriage, and sleeping with two men....nobody knows of one another. I was blown away by all of this....but I was nice and didn't say anything. Since that coffee meeting, she wants to get together again but just today I sent her a text because I can no longer ignore her constant texts to me about seeing me again. In my text, I said that I'm sorry I had not contacted her but I was having a hard time supporting what's happening in her life coming from a relationship that I was deeply betrayed. I wished her well but I did not feel I can support this. Her response was not so nice basically justifying her infidelity and that she knows she is a good person and those that know her know that is true and that she is upset that I'm using this as a barrier. Wow!! I know I made the right decision in letting her know that this goes against my moral fibre but it surprises me that people try to justify cheating. As far as I'm concerned, she's playing her husband as a fool and if she really isn't happy, the get out of the marriage and then go f##k around.
kakui215 Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Why do they try to justify it? I guess that the fundamental reason is that many people have a hard time admitting when they're wrong. Even those who can admit their errors in other circumstances might have more trouble in these sorts of cases because due to the depth of emotions involved, including guilt that they may or may not even admit to themselves exists. Since they are so often in denial with themselves, they of course can't admit to such wrongdoing to anyone else. That has certainly been true with my wife. Even after we've had a big argument and she has come back begging for forgiveness and admitting how wrong it was for her to f##k around, she takes only a day or two to go right back to a way of thinking that justifies everything she did -- and that justifies everything she's still not doing to fix our relationship now. She has agreed again & again that communication is one of the most important things for us to work on, but she then goes back to saying as little as possible about anything to do with our relationship (including basic expressions of love & affection). When I finally bring it up, she usually feigns surprise that I could possibly think anything is wrong, and then she gets angry. There are a host of possible reasons explaining her reactions -- including the possibility that in the nearly 3 years since I accidentally discovered her affair, she has never ended it and has simply been gas-lighting me -- but it obvious to me that deep down, she knows that what she has done (or "has been doing"?) is wrong. Her self-image, however, is that of the perfect, dutiful wife who never puts herself first. Any time there has even been even a tiny hint that self-image might not be 100% true all the time, she has gotten very angry and even threatened divorce. [i was going to write a bit more, but I seem to be having trouble composing my writing this morning! Once I get some more coffee, I try to come back and add more -- or at least check to see if the above actually makes some sense!] Edited February 19, 2011 by kakui215 Fixing a typo
Citizen Erased Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 She is NOT a good person. That's how she can justify it. Because she thinks it's perfectly acceptable to screw 2 random guys because her husband has put some weight on, and hasn't pandered to her Princess mentality of me me me. Have these people ever heard of divorce? Half the world is doing it, join it if you're so damn miserable! You did what is good for you, by not continuing with the friendship. Given your situation, if she had been a true friend, she would have had some sensitivity about revealing this, instead of making it out to be a big joke. She sounds like a nightmare.
Author Carm Posted February 19, 2011 Author Posted February 19, 2011 I agree Citizen, she is not a good person and after I had just finished telling her that my bf had 2 women on the go and how devastated I was, she was acting giddy about her scenerio and at one point one of these lovers called and she's saying "ciao bello" to him and giggling as if she was a teenager. She actually expects me to be okay with this? Like you said Citizen, get a f##king divorce then play around....I almost feel like calling her husband and letting him know BUT I am not getting involved. Kak, I'm sorry you're through this with your wife and I hope that you have the strength to get passed it. When I found out that my bf was making a fool out of me, I kicked him out the door and never looked back. That being said, it has been a tough year and Valentine's Day marked the one year anniversary of when I discovered his double (or should I say triple) life.
Woggle Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 Because people in affairs are the ultimate sociopaths. They don't care who they hurt as long as they get their rocks off. Good for you for not condoning it instead of saying you go girl and giving a high five like some would do.
Duckduckgoose Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 Have these people ever heard of divorce? Half the world is doing it, join it if you're so damn miserable! Actually 25% are doing it... the other 25% that makes up the rest of that statistic are the ones that got served.
dreamingoftigers Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 Actually 25% are doing it... the other 25% that makes up the rest of that statistic are the ones that got served. That really is so damned sad.
Iconoclast Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 She is not a good person. By definition. She seeks your approval so she can think otherwise. Also, remember, she is probably at least greatly embellishing the truth. You already know of her capability to lie. Read about Cognitive Dissonance, she's knee deep in it.
xpaperxcutx Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 If anybody needs to justify cheating, they're merely doing it becasue they're trying to justify their ACTIONS. She doesn't want to see herself as a bad person ( I mean, who does?) hence she blames her need to cheat on her unhappiness with her marriage and she uses your sympathy and friendship to enable it.
Tayla Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 The actions of a person do not determine the titles of GOOD or bad, Get over that concept and deal with the behavior. Yes its unacceptable behavior and one that deserves to draw a line on. The persons morals maybe eskewed , but I'll be derned if you can have the infantile mentality to place a person as good or Bad by there differences in poor choices. Because if so, not a one of us here is above being cast as BAD or not a good person. Too many here forget they had a past or did things that were in essences looked down upon. We are not pure...good and angelic. Yes as adults we have a duty to abide by our morals and draw some safe lines to maintain integrity. Kudos to the OP for being able to do just that.
Iconoclast Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 The actions of a person do not determine the titles of GOOD or bad, . So then what does, if not actions?
fooled once Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Hi All, I'll try to make this short. A gf contacted me before the Xmas holidays, I hadn't spoken to her in over 7 years. I had weeded her out of my life because she was so high maintenance, she needed so much attention, when I didn't return her calls promptly she'd get mad, etc. etc. We go back about 20 years, I was her maid of honour when she married 12 years ago. On our first phone conversation, she told me she was unhappy in her marriage and that she missed me and wanted to get together, and I thought what harm would it do. We met for a coffee and I filled her in my life (I summed it up in 10 minutes) that I had a four year relationship full of betrayal and infidelity (on his part) and that I was just starting to get on my feet again. The rest of the time she told me how unhappy she was, her husband is not a good listener, he gained tons of weight, she wasn't attracted to him any longer and that one year ago she met a man in a coffee shop, he tells her how beautiful she is and within a few days she is having sex with him AND to boot a few weeks after meeting him she meets another man and she starts having sex with him as well. Fast forward to today, she is still in an unhappy marriage, and sleeping with two men....nobody knows of one another. I was blown away by all of this....but I was nice and didn't say anything. Since that coffee meeting, she wants to get together again but just today I sent her a text because I can no longer ignore her constant texts to me about seeing me again. In my text, I said that I'm sorry I had not contacted her but I was having a hard time supporting what's happening in her life coming from a relationship that I was deeply betrayed. I wished her well but I did not feel I can support this. Her response was not so nice basically justifying her infidelity and that she knows she is a good person and those that know her know that is true and that she is upset that I'm using this as a barrier. Wow!! I know I made the right decision in letting her know that this goes against my moral fibre but it surprises me that people try to justify cheating. As far as I'm concerned, she's playing her husband as a fool and if she really isn't happy, the get out of the marriage and then go f##k around. Many cheaters use the "but I am a good person" line to justify their horrible behavior. I don't understand why people cheat if they are in an unhappy relationship. If someone is that unhappy, fix it or get out. Dropping your pants/spreading your legs is NOT the answer to make your marriage better. I feel bad for her H - who knows what types of disease she is bringing home with her. You did the right thing by telling her why you don't want to be a part of her life. Ignore her and don't let her make you feel as if YOU have done anything wrong. You haven't. You chose to rid your life of a toxic person.
Tayla Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 So then what does, if not actions? Simply put, if a child misbehaves "THEY" themselves are NOT 'BAD", The behavior though may need modified.
blizzard Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 Simply put, if a child misbehaves "THEY" themselves are NOT 'BAD", The behavior though may need modified. I believe we are all responsible for good and bad behavior...but what happens is that others have a tendency to measure one greater than an another...
UnsureinSeattle Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 'Cause cheating is a pretty rotten thing to do- and most people want to believe that they are good and will justify even the most ludicrous of behavior to maintain that precious self-deception.
TigerCub Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 Hey Carm, First off - I think you did the right thing by telling your friend that her stories are upsetting to you (considering your own history with infidelity) - also, you simply don't approve morally of what she's doing - so don't feel bad for speaking your mind. As for the question of why people justify cheating - its complicated: Generally, people who cheat are cowards that avoid confrontation, and so its easier for them to do what they do by pretending that its all because of circumstances that they can't control. Another point, as some other posters have mentioned, people don't want to see themselves as bad, and so we find anything under the sun to "ok" what we do (especially if in the back of our minds we know its wrong). I know I'm guilty of that - and NO (I don't think of myself as a bad person - just guilty of making some really stupid choices), but when I was involved with an attached man (he was separated when we met), I justified it (when he went back to his GF), by telling myself that we loved each other, and that he's only there for the kids - yeah I completely lied to myself and made the ends justify the means, but that doesn't last. People, can't keep lying to themselves for long, and they know that whatever "justifications" they give are flimsy - but we do it anyways at times because we don't like the part of us that's acting against our own moral code. Last point: People sometimes make up their justifications and excuses simply because there are people out there that will believe them and buy into all that - simple as that. So maybe the better question is: why do people believe the flimsy "justifications" - but I'm sure that has a complicated answer too
blizzard Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) my apologies...i double posted. Edited February 22, 2011 by blizzard
blizzard Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 Hey Carm, First off - I think you did the right thing by telling your friend that her stories are upsetting to you (considering your own history with infidelity) - also, you simply don't approve morally of what she's doing - so don't feel bad for speaking your mind. As for the question of why people justify cheating - its complicated: Generally, people who cheat are cowards that avoid confrontation, and so its easier for them to do what they do by pretending that its all because of circumstances that they can't control. Another point, as some other posters have mentioned, people don't want to see themselves as bad, and so we find anything under the sun to "ok" what we do (especially if in the back of our minds we know its wrong). I know I'm guilty of that - and NO (I don't think of myself as a bad person - just guilty of making some really stupid choices), but when I was involved with an attached man (he was separated when we met), I justified it (when he went back to his GF), by telling myself that we loved each other, and that he's only there for the kids - yeah I completely lied to myself and made the ends justify the means, but that doesn't last. People, can't keep lying to themselves for long, and they know that whatever "justifications" they give are flimsy - but we do it anyways at times because we don't like the part of us that's acting against our own moral code. Last point: People sometimes make up their justifications and excuses simply because there are people out there that will believe them and buy into all that - simple as that. So maybe the better question is: why do people believe the flimsy "justifications" - but I'm sure that has a complicated answer too True Tiger... I think infidelity houses alot of anger/resentment issues as well. In my case, it still does. I blamed my husband for not trying in our marriage when I needed him too. I blamed my husband for NEVER hearing me. Or seeing me. My affair occurred during our seperation and after MC. Before OM was in the picture, I had finally mustered the courage to tell my husband that I wanted a divorce...but he stalled. Being the perfect family, me the perfect kid it was so hard to say the word divorce. And when I did, he said let's give it another 6 months...another holiday...give me time to accept that we are divorcing, etc...and so I did and then ended up having an affair with an old friend. And yes, I regret it...and cannot justify that it was right. But I will say anger, revenge, resentment...marital problems were where my mind was in our marriage and during the affair.
TigerCub Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 True Tiger... I think infidelity houses alot of anger/resentment issues as well. In my case, it still does. I blamed my husband for not trying in our marriage when I needed him too. I blamed my husband for NEVER hearing me. Or seeing me. The part in bold - so true (well from what I hear anyways) If I were you, I would have had the same resentment - no one wants to be with someone that doesn't pay attention to them and doesn't "see them". I felt that way in a relationship - but I left. Again, not like your situation though, we weren't married, we didn't have the complications of kids, and year & years of history (it was a 1.5 year R), still hurt, but wasn't as complicated as yours. Its kinda sad to think that people finally "hear" and understand what their partner was saying with regards to the issues that cause resentment and hurt when its too late My affair occurred during our seperation and after MC. Before OM was in the picture, I had finally mustered the courage to tell my husband that I wanted a divorce...but he stalled. Being the perfect family, me the perfect kid it was so hard to say the word divorce. And when I did, he said let's give it another 6 months...another holiday...give me time to accept that we are divorcing, etc...and so I did and then ended up having an affair with an old friend. And yes, I regret it...and cannot justify that it was right. But I will say anger, revenge, resentment...marital problems were where my mind was in our marriage and during the affair. That part in bold here, must have made you feel so guilty! You finally get the courage to want to end it, but seeing how he's trying to drag it out and not end it must have made you feel so guilty about wanting out. Thanks for sharing Blizzard
musemaj11 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) The thread title is misleading. It should be "Why Do Women Always Try to Justify Cheating?" When a man cheats, he generally admits that he cheated because the woman was hot and he got horny. End of story. But when a woman cheats, she generally starts to appeal to pity and tries to make herself seem like the victim. Examples of this can even be seen in this very thread. Edited February 23, 2011 by musemaj11 1
classified Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 The thread title is misleading. It should be "Why Do Women Always Try to Justify Cheating?" When a man cheats, he generally admits that he cheated because the woman was hot and he got horny. End of story. I concur. I don't believe men are genetically built to be monogamous myself. This doesn't mean we can't be faithful, just that the mental temptations require a conscious effort to repress. Probably a major percentage of us have never actually cheated on a partner, but regardless, we are very frisky creatures, thinking about sex several times a day.
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