Disillusioned Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Let me ask the rest of you this: If you see a man you know to be bitter, and suddenly he's painting the town, arm in arm with a really nice woman (and not bitter anymore), would you feel that she did a wrong by being nice to him and curing his bitterness? Would you feel angry because you thought she should have left him alone? Personally I think that whole bitterness BS is just women's excuse to starve men of female friendship and feed the stereotype. Women who label certain men "bitter" are probably dishing some bitterness out themselves. Really, "bitter" has become little more that the excuse du jour.
carhill Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 A definition I found on the internet: Bitterness is a frozen form of latent anger and resentment. Bitterness grows out of our refusal to let go when someone or something is taken from us. Bitterness is being constantly hurt by a memory and is holding onto a hurt until it has a hold on you. Bitterness is the unhealthiest emotion you can have. When you are offended or disappointed by others and allow the hurt to germinate in your heart, bitterness and resentment will take root. Bitterness is characterized by an unforgiving spirit and generally negative, critical attitudes. Bitterness and resentment are both sinful and self-defeating. Perhaps it grows from the literal loss of a loved one or of a job, or income, or relationship. Sometimes it might be more subtle and grow from the loss of a reputation, or social position in a group, or control. Whatever the cause, bitterness grows out of unreleased loss. Whenever we lose something or someone significant, we often feel the following thoughts and emotions over a period of time as we grieve over that loss. The bitterness pervades everything. What happens to a person if he keeps bitterness on the inside for many years? What happens to him physically? Can he get physically sick? Suppose it is bitterness toward some member of the family. He kept it inside nurturing, he has not shared it. He has not defiled many people -- he has kept it down inside. When he keeps it inside for some years, he finally begins to hurt. --------------- Is it possible to share the same experiences with others from various perspectives? IOW, can one share the same event, say like a death or divorce, from a different emotional place? Can it, at one point in time, be from sorrow, anger or hurt and, at another time, be from acceptance and understanding? To me, bitterness results when one holds on to the sorrow, anger or hurt (in this example) and experiences and shares the event only in this way, emotionally. When I talk about women I've met who go on and on and on about their horrible ex from years ago, what is that? Are they venting or is that bitterness? Could they share that event and the relevant ex in a different way and leave the listener with a completely different observation of both the event and the person sharing it? As far as the example, IMO only an intensive interview by a professional could determine the psychological state of the man. He may 'appear' to be happy, just like he may 'appear' to be bitter. How he really feels cannot be determined from a brief observation. To-wit: Rebound relationships. They *seem* happy. Are they? Is a person in a rebound relationship who's 'happy' with their partner superficially but still processing the hurt from their past relationship/marriage truly 'happy'? Is sorrow, anger and hurt which is covered up without being resolved really 'happy'? I'll leave you to it. I've gotta go make some tractors go. Good luck
Cee Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 The only person I know in real life who is bitter is my mom. She endlessly complains about how her mother didn't treat her right as a child. My mom is almost 70 and my grandmom is 95. I want to scream at my mom, "Get over it, already!" I forgave my mom for abusing me. Why can't she forgive her own mom? I don't get it. I think bitterness is a transient state and if someone gets locked into, there is something more serious going on. I think my mom is using her resentment as a distraction from the fact that she's lonely and little afraid. I try to be gentle around my mom at all times, but when she complains about her mother, I immediately detach. I don't want to encourage that negative loop she's in.
VertexSquared Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Bitterness is almost always, in some form, an inability to take responsibility for oneself. Yes, you may have gotten screwed over in some way. Yes, it may have been out of your control. But you can't expect others to pick up the slack. You have to learn to live with the cards you've been dealt and make the best of them. Those who don't -- who feel the need to blame others and hold themselves back from actually improving their own situations -- are just shooting themselves in the foot.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Bitterness is an unhealthy emotion, whether men or women express it. I would avoid a bitter woman, same as a woman should have avoided me for being bitter in the past.
daphne Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I generally don't date bitter people. I think it's a copout. I've personally experienced some pretty horrible things, but if I didn't strive to become a more positive person I'd be beaten up and miserable. I tend to respect people who have more resilience and appreciation for the good in life, although I know it ain't easy. To me, bitterness begets bitterness begets more bitterness. Negativity will suck the life force from you. And life is really short. If you don't fully appreciate that, watch a close relative die. If that were to happen, however, I wouldn't be bitter about it myself. I would wish them happiness. I would wish teh girl much luck, however. Because it takes a lot of self work to overcome that kind of negativity.
sumdude Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) My favorite quote on the subject of anger and bitterness. Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha As far as the scenario? That would be one brave and compassionate woman. It's very rare for something like that to happen. Why would someone walk into a building on fire not knowing what they'll find other than pain? Edited February 18, 2011 by sumdude
Kamille Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 What? What a ridiculous spin on things! Now, by virtue of being a heterosexual female, you want women to take responsibility for the mental well-being of bitter men? Co-dependency'R'us anyone? Why is it that, in the opinion of a vocal minority of male posters here, it's always the women who should change? Now we're even being held accountable for helping men out of their angry bitterness. Sure, I have nothing to do on a Sunday. I could hang out with my progressive, adorable, non-bitter boyfriend. But, no, let me instead help bitter men get over themselves. Heaven forbid we suggest that people who have are stuck in negative thought patterns find the strength within themselves to forget other's past wrongs (especially when, as is the case with some of the posters, these wrongs were never even actually done to them personally). Or better yet, heaven forbid we try to figure out why they're so afraid of women that they would rather focus on hating them then actually try to date them? Your scenario forgets one important factor. Not all men are bitter. Why would I spend time with someone who purposefully stereotypes me (instead of taking the time to know me as an individual), when I can have a grand old time with someone who respects and cherish me?
Nexus One Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) The guys I met that are bitter regarding women have actually been the players in this world. They got burned, then they decided to unleash themselves upon the female species for it and take what they want with no regards for women's feelings. Also being angry is really tiring. I've rarely been angry at someone for longer than 2 or 3 days. After a while it just costs too much effort without producing any results. Another thing is that you can't generalize a whole group of people. Not only because it's ethically wrong to do so, but also because you'd be missing out on the good people that DO cross your path. Sometimes we need a reminder of the really obvious and that is to look at each person individually rather than discard them for the reason of them being part of a particular group. Edited February 18, 2011 by Nexus One
daphne Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 when I can have a grand old time with someone who respects and cherish me? That would make you a selfish and narcissistic woman. lol. To address what someone else also said, it is most definitely a matter of personal accountability. Everyone experiences hard knocks here and there. It is our personal responsibility to figure out the best approach to coping with the fact that there are really bad people out there, and trying to make your personal environment a better space for yourself and others. At the risk of sounding preachy, I'll talk about my own experience with bitterness. There are a few people in my present that know of my past. Very few. Because when they find out they see me very differently and pity me. And if I pitied myself constantly, I'd never be where I am today so I'd prefer no one else did either. Like Red said in Shawshank Redemption, "You got to get busy living or get busy dying." I aim to make the best out of it, and my life is so much richer for it.
Kamille Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 That would make you a selfish and narcissistic woman. lol. Women just can't win, can we? I by win, I don't mean win the gender war (which I think is bogus anyways in just in the head of bitter people on both sides of the genital divide), but win some respect and consideration as human beings.
daphne Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Women just can't win, can we? I by win, I don't mean win the gender war (which I think is bogus anyways in just in the head of bitter people on both sides of the genital divide), but win some respect and consideration as human beings. Not on the LS board, we won't. You're expecting mature, rational, reasoning ability. Shame on you!
denise_xo Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 ...on both sides of the genital divide was that on purpose?
Kamille Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 was that on purpose? Yes . I think I'm sick of the word gender. See, in my field, we consider genitals to be real and gender to be socially negotiated.
Graviton Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Not on the LS board, we won't. You're expecting mature, rational, reasoning ability. Shame on you! Is that a joke or are you serious?
daphne Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Is that a joke or are you serious? Is that a serious question?
Graviton Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Is that a serious question? It's a serious question. I don't do well interpreting if someone is using innuendo or joking on a message board. I think Neo's serious. Silver Surfer, any luck beating Galactus and saving the universe?
daphne Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 It's a serious question. I don't do well interpreting if someone is using innuendo or joking on a message board. My question was suggesting that you were disingenuous with your own. I was under teh impression that you felt there were a lot of reasonable, mature people on LS and were disputing my take on it. Perhaps you were mocking me for suggesting that there were any. Which I would probably have deserved. Not sure.
Nexus One Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Silver Surfer, any luck beating Galactus and saving the universe? I saved earth, but in exchange ended up working for Galactus. It's the sad destiny of a super hero. What about you, any luck on saving Zion?
Graviton Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 My question was suggesting that you were disingenuous with your own. I was under teh impression that you felt there were a lot of reasonable, mature people on LS and were disputing my take on it. Perhaps you were mocking me for suggesting that there were any. Which I would probably have deserved. Not sure. I don't do innuendo. But I take you answered my question with this reply. I saved earth, but in exchange ended up working for Galactus. It's the sad destiny of a super hero. What about you, any luck on saving Zion? I went blind and died twice for peace between man and machine. So how has Galactus been treating you?
Nexus One Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I went blind and died twice for peace between man and machine. So how has Galactus been treating you? He made me his b*tch.
Graviton Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 He made me his b*tch. It's a hard knock life.
GoodOnPaper Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 If you see a man you know to be bitter, and suddenly he's painting the town, arm in arm with a really nice woman (and not bitter anymore), would you feel that she did a wrong by being nice to him and curing his bitterness? Would you feel angry because you thought she should have left him alone? Personally I think that whole bitterness BS is just women's excuse to starve men of female friendship and feed the stereotype. Women who label certain men "bitter" are probably dishing some bitterness out themselves. I suspect that if a guy's bitterness doesn't run too deep, it may be perceived differently by different women depending on how they are drawn to serious vs. lighter-hearted personalities. It's been quite a while since I've seen a thread on this nice-guy twist, but I've noticed that the female reaction to the "nice guy turned bad" (presumably because of bitterness) is much more negative than that to the stereotypical "bad boy" or jerk who's always been that way. Interesting, given that the "nice guy" always gets a very negative reaction in the first place.
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