Passive/Agressive Men?

[sumdude]

I've been accused of being passive-aggressive a couple of times in life by a woman. Sometime I think it's partially true, I also think people have a habit of throwing these labels around. "Oh you're just being passive/aggressive." when I do something she doesn't like. Which really doesn't help at all and only continues the pattern. Anyhow I decided to do a little research and found an excerpt from article that i found enlightening. I think it has a lot to do with the state of dating and relations between men and women these days and why so many men are venting their frustration and anger anonymously in places such as LS.

 

from

http://www.couplesinstitute.com/professional/artman/publish/article_17.shtml

 

While no one would argue that a "To the moon, Alice" approach did anything to improve the species, the crucial thing to realize is that the anger today hasn't really changed. Men may have learned to hide it-from themselves as well as from others-but they haven't gotten rid of it.

 

But wait (I hear every man I know saying), what about the woman? Well, women have more than done their time on his particular emotional ride. Passive-aggression traditionally was the province of the female sex:

- "Go ahead. Don't mind me. I'll just sit here in the rain."

- "Is that a new dress? What's different? You look great."

- "Your children would like to see you, you know."

- "Whatever you say is fine, dear."

 

Of course there are plenty of woman today who are just as passive-aggressive as men. But the same feminism that told me to stop acting macho in the Sixties and Seventies also told women that it was all right for them to express their feelings.

 

The result is a double whammy for men. As Firestone, who's treated dozens of passive-aggressive men, puts it, "if passive-aggression is more prevalent now, it's because men were freer to show their anger fifteen or twenty years ago. Women have more permission to be assertive in the culture now. The overt balance has shifted. Men of the baby boom generation started out life with a powerful female controlling their behavior. There was some hope that they might come into their own when they were finally out of the house. But then they ran into women who told them not to be macho schmucks. They're caught between a rock and a hard place, so they just sit there and jiggle."

[daphne]

I think it's fairly obvious when a guy's being passive aggressive. I shudder to think that I almost married one. It's a nightmare.

 

If you suspect you are, chances you are. If you're able to change, it would be better for your future relationships. Personally, I think I'd rather a guy be a brat about something than throw "innocuous" jabs supposedly disguised as jokes. There's nothing healthy about manipulative negativity. And yes, I see a lot of it on these boards as well.

 

Everyone wants their way to a certain extent. It's about figuring out how to consider what's mutually beneficial to both parties and learning to live without getting your way all of the time. And not being vengeful when you don't. Good topic.

[carhill]

From Wikipedia:

 

 

• Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of engendering a feeling of insecurity in others
  
• Chronically being late and forgetting things: another way to exert control or to punish.
  
• Fear of competition
  
• Fear of dependency
  
• Fear of intimacy as a means to act out anger: The passive–aggressive often cannot trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone.
  
• Making chaotic situations
  
• Making excuses for non-performance in work teams
  
• Obstructionism
  
• Procrastination
  
• Sulking
  
• Victimization response: instead of recognizing one's own weaknesses, tendency to blame others for own failures.
  

[sumdude]

I'll admit I have some tendencies but not so full blown as any of the examples in the link. Certain personalities bring them out and others never push those buttons. I'm somewhat conflict avoidant. If I'm dealing with someone who is fairly even keeled I don't have a problem dealing with issues but when dealing with aggressive and volatile personalities I tend to clam up.

[daphne]

I'll admit I have some tendencies but not so full blown as any of the examples in the link. Certain personalities bring them out and others never push those buttons. I'm somewhat conflict avoidant. If I'm dealing with someone who is fairly even keeled I don't have a problem dealing with issues but when dealing with aggressive and volatile personalities I tend to clam up.

 

I think everyone has that instinct, from time to time, if they dislike conflict. I think I do make the off handed smart ass joke (mine's not really hidden meaning though) when I'm disappointed with someone's behavior. But I'll discuss it if need be and don't have to have my way.

 

A highly passive aggressive person tends to be unpleasant all around. They need to be in control and or punish you so the behaviors are frequent and really uncomfortable for the target of their aggression. Everyone loved my ex and thought he was great, but they didn't have to live with him. Now his current wife cries the blues over the SAME THINGS I had issues with. She's much nicer to me now that she gets it.

 

Just try to be self aware and if it sounds super snarky and you know you have an agenda, try to figure out a more proactive way of getting your point across.

[sumdude]

I was married to a very passive aggressive woman, possibly histrionic or borderline as well. I would get the ice wall of anger which I would try to work through or around. Like banging my head against the wall.. Then the built up rage fit from her which would then make me clam up. I was expected to be a mind reader. Not a healthy dynamic to say the least.

 

I learned a long time ago to bite my tongue when the snarky low blow was coming out. But every once in a while I let one rip. Particularly with someone who doesn't let you get a word in edgewise. Some people can't help it, when they see the buttons they have to push them. LOL I try to avoid that as much as possible.

Edited February 18, 2011 by sumdude

[daphne]

Women do have the bad habit of expecting you to read their minds. I should say we... I've definitely been guilty. With teh right guy, however, I have learned to trust and open up and say what I need to say. It's soooo much easier that way. It is also givingup control of the outcome. Sometimes people want to do what you want. Sometimes they dont'. I'll get over it. I'm not a child anymore.

 

I hate button pushers. I can be very passive or very aggressive. I'm passive around people who respect my need for peace and agreeability (I'm a gemini.) I can be very aggressive when someone is being passive aggressive (pushing buttons), or trying to fight. I wish I weren't, but it is what it is.

[spackle]

give me a while to dig up a great article I read on this...how bad am I I actually sent it to someone I accused of being PA because he wouldn't reply to me lol

 

You can be PA without making comments, by saying nothing you can look to control a situation. If you know your behaviour provokes a certain response in someone and you do it regardless, I consider that to be PA.

[spackle]

http://ginamarina.tripod.com/p-a.htm article one

[daphne]

http://ginamarina.tripod.com/p-a.htm article one

 

Great article. My ex had everyone believing I was the bad guy and he was a saint. It's only now that his wife is repeating what I said about him that people actually believe me now. Pa's really need to pretend to be that nice guy.

 

And to add, my pa actually talked me into going to therapy. He wanted to work it out and get married. After a few weeks of therapy, I realized he was never going to change. He was too set in his ways. The therapist, who was a male, told me it was a good idea when I said I was leaving. He totally got what was going on.

[mtber75]

From Wikipedia:

 

 

• Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of engendering a feeling of insecurity in others
  
• Chronically being late and forgetting things: another way to exert control or to punish.
  
• Fear of competition
  
• Fear of dependency
  
• Fear of intimacy as a means to act out anger: The passive–aggressive often cannot trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone.
  
• Making chaotic situations
  
• Making excuses for non-performance in work teams
  
• Obstructionism
  
• Procrastination
  
• Sulking
  
• Victimization response: instead of recognizing one's own weaknesses, tendency to blame others for own failures.
  

 

 

Use to be this in my early teens and twenties. Not anymore with therapy:)

 

I don't feel sorry for people who think they can change on their own...This kind of behavior only progresses with age!

[daphne]

Good for you mtbr. I would say most people don't want to even try to develop healthier patterns. It's too difficult.

[daphne]

I would love if we could get an icon to flag all posts that are made in a passive aggressive spirit. They are rampant on this board.

[spackle]

Great article. My ex had everyone believing I was the bad guy and he was a saint. It's only now that his wife is repeating what I said about him that people actually believe me now. Pa's really need to pretend to be that nice guy.

 

And to add, my pa actually talked me into going to therapy. He wanted to work it out and get married. After a few weeks of therapy, I realized he was never going to change. He was too set in his ways. The therapist, who was a male, told me it was a good idea when I said I was leaving. He totally got what was going on.

 

I heard a great thing in training once, it's along the lines of this, if one person thinks you're acting like a prick, it could just be that the two of you don't get on. If everyone thinks you're acting like a prick, then you're a prick and you may want to work on that.

[Graviton]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_aggressiveness Edited February 18, 2011 by Graviton

[LucreziaBorgia]

I ducked a huge time bullet by getting myself away from someone recently who is a textbook PA. I read this article, and it was like reading something someone wrote specifically about him:

 

Passive Aggressive

 

Lots of people will use PA techniques or digs, but this guy was the living breathing epitome of it. They are hard to suss out at first - and very, very dangerous if you get involved with one. Covert abuse is tricky.

[threebyfate]

Et tu, sumdude? Don't go there. Plse don't become one of the male victims.

 

If you find yourself being passive-aggressive often, fix it...STAT! You'll thank yourself later in life.

[zengirl]

I don't think passive-aggression is really all that related to gender, nor do I think men are less free than women to be assertive or show their anger. I just read an article about how female anger is a major factor in being 'woefully single' (I don't think the article is perfect, overall, but this section I agree with 100%---it was written by a Mad Men writer and at Huffington, which I read a lot):

 

1. You're a Bitch.

Here's what I mean by bitch. I mean you're angry. You probably don't think you're angry. You think you're super smart, or if you've been to a lot of therapy, that you're setting boundaries. But the truth is you're pissed. At your mom. At the military-industrial complex. At Sarah Palin. And it's scaring men off. The deal is: most men just want to marry someone who is nice to them. . . . Female anger terrifies men.

 

I have seen women run into this time and time again. Female anger definitely scares the hell out of most men I know; it is seen as irrational, it is seen as an uncontrollable force, and most men I know will do just about anything to avoid it, if they can.

 

The fact is, male anger is more accepted, at least between other men. Men accept male anger. I've seen two guys get into a fight and then drink a beer together. Even women still don't really accept female anger. We don't have a way to process it like that. But, of course, the worst dynamics are between male/female anger meeting.

 

At any rate, you can learn to be assertive without being angry; passive-aggression is (as suggested in the OP) just another poor anger-processing mechanism. Assertive is good. Assertive says, "I have worth. I have thoughts and feelings. They're worth expressing." Anger says, "I'm hurting and I want to hurt you back." Anger is bad.

 

I think, if anything, we need more talk about feelings --- especially when younger --- to derail anger, and that's gotten better since the 1950s. Not there yet, but better. Learning to be assertive starts in preschool. So does this behavior. With a keen eye towards education, we could eliminate a lot of passive agression, anger, and agression from society. We just choose not to because it'd involve a little bit of telling parents what to do with thier kids, which apparently I can do when it comes to reading but I've no right to do when it comes to tips that might actually help the kid deal with people in the world. Go figure. It's a systemic problem. And it could have a systemic solution, but it never will because the generation before has too much anger.

[daphne]

Covert abuse is tricky.

 

It really is. And it can make you feel crazy. There was a book I read on it after dealing with a narcissist. Wolf in sheep's clothing. A good read, but kind of scary because I see the behaviors in people all of the time now. There are a lot of unhealthy ways to manipulate and control. And interestingly enough, wolf pack leaders seem to have the worst of the behaviors.

 

Be glad you didn't end up marrying the p.a. Lifelong misery, imo.