Kamille Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I never see that. . A recent contribution to one of WB's threads, yesterday, before this thread even started: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3251513&postcount=21
sally4sara Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Women don't really put in romantic effort into men anyway THAT OFTEN. And yes I do realise there are exceptions... But come on, women rarely makes the first move, forget all my exagerations, it is true that women rarely puts in romantic effort first. The man is more often than not the one who makes the move, and I will too when the time is right and I find a girl I like. I would consider myself a reasonably good looking guy, not unattractive but not extremley handsome either. I'm a bit of a shorty at 5'7 so my facial looks are irrelevant anyway, they could be devilishly handsome but at the end, height does matter. I guess that might be my impediment though I suppose. You want me to "open up" and keep my mind open? Sure I can do that, I can explain why I make all these negative posts about women. And I think you would be quite surprised as to why I constantly go over the top. You're right WB, women make the approach and sales pitch less often than men. And you're right, men will do *things* to appeal to women more often than women do for men - initially. Here is why: Men are more visually stimulated. They SEE a woman they find attractive and immediately want sex with her. Who she is doesn't factor in; she could be the witchiest witch with nothing to offer the world and he will STILL want to give his body to her. Its not because she is a beautiful soul with a singing voice like honey or has a mind like a steel trap. He knows nothing of those possibilities upon initial sighting. So when he comes up all drooling dog she knows why he is there; the tah tahs peeking skyward and toned legs traveling ever up, the Mona Lisa smile. She may enjoy the visual effect she has, but the guy? She knows full well that one day those devout titties will sink like Atlantis, the smile will crumple at the curve and the legs will get worked over with a blue road map - will he still place value on her? She will test him till one day.... He knows all about her honey voice, the secret behind her smile, that she cries over not being able to put in more hours to the charity she devotes her time to and be able to take in what her mind quietly susses out and he will look at her with knowledge AND hunger that can't be so easily doubted. THAT is when he gets the bounty of his efforts and she can enrich his life with her effort. Are some women bitchy princess types? Oh yeah; bet your life! Are some guys entitled douche bags? Oh yeah; bet your life! Do your best to not join the ranks.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I didn't say anything about estrogen. I merely pointed to the fact that the scientific community considers stereotyping to be a social process. I have yet to read a study that links stereotyping to hormones. Compartmentalizing is linked to testosterone. Focused stereotypes are an effect of large scale compartmentalizing. Maybe I'm wrong, but it makes logical sense given experiential evidence. A recent contribution to one of WB's threads, yesterday, before this thread even started: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3251513&postcount=21 Keep it up! Encourage others to do the same as you! Please read this. http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/estrogen-and-womens-emotions Thanks for the link.
Kamille Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Keep it up! Encourage others to do the same as you! I consider others capable of making their own decisions.
elaina Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I understand that it sucks to have your gender generalized. I have heard enough men are pigs rants to show me how this feels. That being said why is it that when men on here who have clearly been through some serious drama vent about what they feel they are raked over the coals? Why is it so hard to fathom why a man who has had his kindness and gentlemanly behavior used against him would be leery of being so good to a woman again? Do women really think men should have no emotions whatsoever and be ready to jump blindly into the fire again after being burned? Hi Woggle, I guess it depends on why guys are kind. Are guys kind because they want women to be good to them? Or are they kind because they have strong convictions that being kind is a trait they want to have, regardless of others' reactions to it? If a person only is or tries to be something just to get something back, it doesn't work very well. You can't please everybody all the time, and trying to please people can just create issues. Guys who are true gentleman and are truly kind do not do it to get "rewards" from women. They are and do it because they hold themselves to high standards. Women who are kind and are ladylike aren't supposed to do it just to nab some guy or get things from a guy. Rather true kind ladies are so because they hold themselves to a high standard, no matter what others do or don't do. Like in the movie (just saw some of it...) Gone with the Wind. The good, sweet kind lady was not Scarlett, but rather her rival, who was kind and ladylike to EVERYONE, including Scarlett.
Author Woggle Posted February 18, 2011 Author Posted February 18, 2011 I never kind just to get something from somebody but after having my good nature used against and then told it was my fault for trusting yeah I did become bitter. I don't expect a cookie but I got sick of being a doormat.
zengirl Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 The way I see it, they are actually out in the world consistently treating those they date like shyte. I agree with you, and I've said this (as constructively as I know how) in their threads before. But at least they have something to talk about and seem to, occasionally, want to be successful -- though wanting and taking actions to get there are miles apart. If a guy talks about his own experiences, and seems to want to be successful AND have a healthy, happy relationship, I'm going to be much more able to consider him a real poster. If a guy just posts random crap about how all women aren't really attracted to men, and don't like sex, and just want attention, or anything like WB's usual schtick, I've got nothing much to go on. Guys like WB are bitter because they struggle to get experience. Face it, for some guys dating is REALLY HARD! I agree, and there are men on this board who struggle with dating and share their struggles who I have empathy for. For instance, while I disagree with him sometimes, I think somedude81 is a good guy, and he struggles. He doesn't talk about women like we're all random cardboard cutouts. Some of these guys who were referred to basically do that. Why is it such a big deal who puts in the effort in the beginning? Seriously, I want you to move your life forward. My best friend is 5'7" and he gets dates just fine. It's true that sometimes he gets rejected just because of his height. However, he doesn't let that stop him. You can do it too! I am interested in hearing what drives you to make the negative posts about women and go over the top. I hope you get somewhere with him, I really do. But I hope everyone is happy. Still, in order to have empathy for someone they have to be more fleshed out than some of the guys who create these hypothetical, gender-divisive posts. And FWIW, those guys don't generally want 'help' or 'empathy' from women in those threads, unless by that you mean they want people to agree with them that, yes, all women are __________ (whatever random stereotype that doesn't even make sense has been thrown out today, usually women aren't interested in men at all or some such nonsense).
elaina Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I never kind just to get something from somebody but after having my good nature used against and then told it was my fault for trusting yeah I did become bitter. I don't expect a cookie but I got sick of being a doormat. I agree that it is important not to be a doormat, but it's up to every person, both men and women, to decide how they are going to treat people and why. About being bitter, I have been bitter before and all it did was hurt me and negatively affected my loved ones. Bitterness doesn't help anything or make people treat you how they should. You can't control how other people treat you, but you can control how you treat them.
daphne Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 LS directors are tolerating this, but I think alot of the great contributing females on this board are getting sick of it, and they will just leave eventually ... unfortunately. I agree. Apart from a handful of decent, well adjusted guys who appear to be in the minority, there is mostly just a piranha pool of negativity. Initially I ignored it, because I'm not interested in arguing with toxic people. It brings me down and I'm not interested in people who do that. Now, I get attacked on a semi regular basis and it's making me feel a little defensive because it's not normal and it's pretty ****ty. And I know the motivation is pretty sick. In the real world, these people would be ostracized as outcasts and seen for what they are. Dark, mal adjusted people with little good to contribute. But here, they hide behind a screen and twist things to feed their addiction to create a combattive atmosphere so they can fight a lot cos to them it feels good. They're working out something they should be figuring out in therapy. Personally, I have one foot out the door. I genuinely like to help people or have a laugh. This is the Dating forum, not the sadder sister the Breaking up forum. I thought it was supposed to be more light hearted. Learn a few tips on how to improve your appeal to the opposite sex. Kvetch a little when things aren't going your way. All in good fun. Alas. There are far happier places to be than on this forum anymore. Ps. this is not a commentary on the original poster btw...
collegeguy_24 Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 This is the Dating forum, not the sadder sister the Breaking up forum. I thought it was supposed to be more light hearted. Learn a few tips on how to improve your appeal to the opposite sex. Kvetch a little when things aren't going your way. All in good fun. Alas. There are far happier places to be than on this forum anymore. Ps. this is not a commentary on the original poster btw... Thats why i've been advocating trying to move all these negative people to were they belong, the Rants and Rave section so we don't have to deal with their crap.
HeavenOrHell Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 It gets my back up when a man who is bitter generalises about women and implies ALL women are cold hearted or bitches etc etc just because they've been hurt once or twice. I've been hurt by more than one man but I am not bitter or generalise about ALL men. I would have much more sympathy if they stopped generalising, because how am I, as a female, not supposed to take offence to the rants about women? I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who has been hurt but not if they're having digs at women as a whole cos of it. I know some women are as bad when they rant about men, I don't find that acceptable either. On the contrary I wish men would show their emotions more and say how they feel if they feel hurt, rather than have a dig at womankind in general. I understand that it sucks to have your gender generalized. I have heard enough men are pigs rants to show me how this feels. That being said why is it that when men on here who have clearly been through some serious drama vent about what they feel they are raked over the coals? Why is it so hard to fathom why a man who has had his kindness and gentlemanly behavior used against him would be leery of being so good to a woman again? Do women really think men should have no emotions whatsoever and be ready to jump blindly into the fire again after being burned?
HeavenOrHell Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 If you're referring to my post, where did I say that? Cos it certainly wasn't in this sentence; >I know some women are as bad when they rant about men, I don't find that acceptable either < Wait...there's empathy for bitter women?
HeavenOrHell Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 Oh sorry, don't think you meant me You were being sarcastic, like yeah right there's empathy for bitter women I agree there isn't, no more than there is for bitter men. If you're referring to my post, where did I say that? Cos it certainly wasn't in this sentence; >I know some women are as bad when they rant about men, I don't find that acceptable either <
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 I understand that it sucks to have your gender generalized. I have heard enough men are pigs rants to show me how this feels. That being said why is it that when men on here who have clearly been through some serious drama vent about what they feel they are raked over the coals? Why is it so hard to fathom why a man who has had his kindness and gentlemanly behavior used against him would be leery of being so good to a woman again? Do women really think men should have no emotions whatsoever and be ready to jump blindly into the fire again after being burned? I don't think it's just about the generalizations though. Any guy who has been burned has to know people who haven't been. No one can really believe that all women are mean, cold hearted and nasty. They'd have to have friends whose wives or girlfriends were not that way, and that should give him hope and reason to believe that there are good women out there. So that kind of bitterness I don't empathize or sympathize with. I do however sympathize and empathize with guys who are bitter because they've never had any kind of success with dating or relationships. Human beings are meant to have these types of relationships and if you haven't it can take away some of your sanity. Being bitter won't help you attract someone, but in this case I think it's understandable.
Mrlonelyone Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 To the OP and title question of this thread: Women cannot empathize with bitter men because they simply cannot easily walk a mile in a mans shoes. Just as men often cannot empathize with womens problems because they usually do not walk a mile in their high heels.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 To the OP and title question of this thread: Women cannot empathize with bitter men because they simply cannot easily walk a mile in a mans shoes. Just as men often cannot empathize with womens problems because they usually do not walk a mile in their high heels. I am highly capable of empathizing with fellow human beings regardless of gender. I choose not to empathize with chronically bitter people, real haters, those who embrace victimhood, or who victimize other people, even though I could. I am highly tuned that way (regarding being empathetic). Empathy can be very draining and exhausting; you can literally feel another person's emotions. If those are toxic, it is not a good place to go and there is no benefit to going there, either. A person really does need to employ their own boundaries around it.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 its easier for girls. they have friends to confide in. men don't. when a man strikes out with girls, no one to confide in no sympathy. a single girl at 30 is sought after by guys. a single guy at 30 is a loser to the girls. Very true. This is why men become bitter.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 its easier for girls. they have friends to confide in. men don't. when a man strikes out with girls, no one to confide in no sympathy. a single girl at 30 is sought after by guys. a single guy at 30 is a loser to the girls. A single guy at 30 is sought after by single girls in his age range. Really.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 A single guy at 30 is sought after by single girls in his age range. Really. I've commented on this before, but a single virgin guy who has never kissed is going to weird out a lot of girls. I'm 28, and already I'm being told that I shouldn't tell people. I have no doubt that a guy will get attention from girls in his age range, but will he be able to flirt and successfully give attention back? It's like someone who has never tasted chocolate cake, to describe it to someone else. They won't be able to do it, at least without tasting it themselves.
Kamille Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 its easier for girls. they have friends to confide in. men don't. If this is true, then it's not only women who lack empathy for (bitter) men, but all of humanity in general.
donnamaybe Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 I have all KINDS of empathy for men who have been wronged and carry baggage as a result. However...... when you and many others continue over and over and over to try to have a rational conversation with someone who continually labels women in general in a derogatory manner and refuses to admit he may be wrong and that there are only SOME women who behave badly toward men, it gets VERY old. I recall a few months back getting a PM from a previously "bitter" man who thanked me for my pep talks and for redirecting his negative thoughts regarding females. He was now happily in a relationship with a great gal!
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted by Mme. Chaucer A single guy at 30 is sought after by single girls in his age range. Really. words. but words that don't bear truth. reality is opposite. So, who do you think the single girls in their mid to late 20's and 30's are going out with? All married guys?
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 The original statement referred to "single guys" who were 30. Later it became amended to refer to single virgin 30 year old guys who had never kissed a girl. I agree that a guy in that category would have more of a challenge ... NOT necessarily because girls would not like him, though. Why has he been untouched for so long? Probably because of awkwardness of his own. It's going to be up to HIM to overcome this if he wants to be close to a woman.
Mrlonelyone Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 The person who wrote that single virgin 30 comment... He had a woman who was totally into him...until he told her he was a 28 year old virgin who had never kissed a girl. He was not akward at all...she found out he was a virgin and did a 180 degree about face and ran the other way.
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