hydorclops Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Woggle, Maybe stop dividing the world into two. Men and Women. Men vs. Women. The opposite sex. Bleh. We are not opposite to each other. We have much in common. We can be evaluated as individuals. You can choose to focus on the differences. But when you do that you magnify the differences and miss the commonalities. There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that divide the world into two kinds of people, and those that don't.
waynebrady Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 That's because he's a troll, and people take the bait literally every. single. time. I wish people would ignore him instead of giving him more and more attention. It clutters and derails threads. He may as well be saying, "And that's because women are aliens from Mars trying to infest the human population and take over Earth!" All I do really is question why men have to do all the "work", that's really the basis of most my posts. But yeah.... I'm a troll and a misogynist alright Just because I question things that's obviously not fair Would you call a woman who questions why women earn less money for the same work than men, a misandrist or a troll too?
jane100 Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I wish people would ignore Trolls too, or the Director of LS got rid of them - as they are continuing to debase the level of discussion on this website with their mindless anger and hatred. They nearly always make the same posts about money/porn/being hard done-by, they continually insult women who are trying to make sense of their world, and are not interested in any kind of insight into their position. LS directors are tolerating this, but I think alot of the great contributing females on this board are getting sick of it, and they will just leave eventually ... unfortunately. As regards "bitterness", I have alot of sympathy for bitterness be it in men or women, because many of us have had difficult experiences in life. However, what is going on on these boards from a lot of men is not bitterness because of personal experience or vulnerability, which can be understandable - but just because they are simply full of hatred and come here to troll around with it.
waynebrady Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I wish people would ignore Trolls too, or the Director of LS got rid of them - as they are continuing to debase the level of discussion on this website with their mindless anger and hatred. They nearly always make the same posts about money/porn/being hard done-by, they continually insult women who are trying to make sense of their world, and are not interested in any kind of insight into their position. LS directors are tolerating this, but I think alot of the great contributing females on this board are getting sick of it, and they will just leave eventually ... unfortunately. As regards "bitterness", I have alot of sympathy for bitterness be it in men or women, because many of us have had difficult experiences in life. However, what is going on on these boards from a lot of men is not bitterness because of personal experience or vulnerability, which can be understandable - but just because they are simply full of hatred and come here to troll around with it. That you call guys like me women haters, trolls and misogynists just further proves my point. You actually take offence when men such as myself question why they have to do all the work and put in all the effort. Like I said... that just proves my point.
jean-luc sisko Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I think bitter men are losers, and frankly need therapy. I don't think it's healthy/logical to translate some bad experiences to ALL people of that type/class.
Cee Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Anger, frustration, and hurt are real emotions that I can relate to on an empathic level. Bitterness is not an emotion, but a point of view. Therefore, I struggle having empathy for it. I cannot connect emotionally to a world view. Just like if someone were an eternal optimist, I wouldn't have much to say because it's a global view, not an emotion that I can hear out. Woggle is going through a process and because you (he) has been up front about his pain, I can relate to it. However, I fear that you (he) is incapable of reciprocity and hearing my and other people's pain. Sometimes when people are in a lot of pain, they cannot really listen to other people. That's understandable. If someone hit me with a hammer, I probably couldn't give comfort to someone else. I bring this up because I think the central aspect of all relating is reciprocity. If LS posters make other people's pain (and joy) all about themselves, then where is the community? I think healthy detachment and perspective is important in building Love Shack into a real community and not people simply venting on an anonymous message board.
sally4sara Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 That you call guys like me women haters, trolls and misogynists just further proves my point. You actually take offence when men such as myself question why they have to do all the work and put in all the effort. Like I said... that just proves my point. Yes, it is offensive. Its even more offensive than some of the crap Woggle says because you have not gone through anything to have earned the right to claim bitterness. Who has used you? Who has wounded you? Who has used your love up ungraciously? What I notice is you'll go on here making posts that I don't really find hateful so much as just naive or assumptive - like guess work. And that I can understand because you don't have the visceral experience to draw from. It gets tedious because you never take in what other, more experienced people tell you that contradicts you. NO. But when the bitter troupe chimes in, you have open ears and validate it. And they, for their bitterness, are like moths to your inexperienced flame. It matters not at all to them that you're little better than a parrot for having no experience to back you up. You're sing the old songs they want to hear and they sing your new favorite song to parrot. I just don't see you or them getting anything good out of it.
Disillusioned Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I think bitter men are losers, and frankly need therapy. I don't think it's healthy/logical to translate some bad experiences to ALL people of that type/class. No, they need platonic friendship, not therapy. Fat chance they'll get it. Look around. There are plenty of men who are "losers" just because they can't play the game and nab any woman they want. They include men who have otherwise "won" at life---got rich, became their own bosses, all that junk. So, by definition, I haven't "lost"... I forfeited. Because last November I realized that the prize in the game isn't worth winning. Telling me how to obtain female companionship is like telling me how to get cancer. So, if you lose, you lose... but if you win, you REALLY lose!
VertexSquared Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I think the reasons are multifaceted: 1. People don't like to be blamed for what others did. That in itself will make it hard to empathize. If you're going to release pent-up, unfair anger against a woman because of how other women have burned you in the past, that's not going to get you much empathy from anyone because it shows that you are poor at handling your own emotions and responsibilities. 2. Bitterness results in a negative attitude, and that in itself is not attractive. 3. Bitterness doesn't actually solve anything. It doesn't matter how much you complain about how unfair a particular double-standard is -- it doesn't mean women are going to suddenly feel sorry for you and start paying for your meals. And even if they do, that kind of sympathy will only last so long. At the end of the day, you're in control of your own happiness. 4. Bitterness is frustrating. Okay, so you're upset. You feel wronged. But how can I possibly help other than trying to advise you to focus on how to improve the way you look at the situation and/or improve your life? But no -- this is rarely good enough. It always drops back to the same feelings of bitterness and self-victimization, and nothing ever seems to truly break that barrier. In the end, people get fed up with leading horses to water. 5. Bitterness is often DRIPPING with confirmation bias. Yeah, there may be some things that make dating/relationships difficult for you -- difficulties that others may not have the misfortune of enduring. But we all have our own obstacles and double-standards to put up with. Everything is give-and-take. As a result, people who are really bitter tend to come across as intrinsically selfish. In other words, people who are bitter tend to lack empathy themselves.
Author Woggle Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 Woggle, Maybe stop dividing the world into two. Men and Women. Men vs. Women. The opposite sex. Bleh. We are not opposite to each other. We have much in common. We can be evaluated as individuals. You can choose to focus on the differences. But when you do that you magnify the differences and miss the commonalities. There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that divide the world into two kinds of people, and those that don't. I would love to live in a world like this but I don't. Just look at any issues that involves a man and a woman. The men will take the man's side and the women will take the woman's side. Trying to pretend that we don't live in a divided world won't help things.
denise_xo Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I would love to live in a world like this but I don't. Just look at any issues that involves a man and a woman. The men will take the man's side and the women will take the woman's side. Trying to pretend that we don't live in a divided world won't help things. There are lots of posts here on LS where men support women or women support men. There are also lost of men and women here on the board who talk of real partnerships in their marriages. Why don't you take a second look.
Author Woggle Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 There are lots of posts here on LS where men support women or women support men. There are also lost of men and women here on the board who talk of real partnerships in their marriages. Why don't you take a second look. It's not just on this board. Both genders are very much on their own sides. Just look at any news story involving gender and look at the comments on a normal board like AOL or Yahoo. The genders are usually very divided yet when I bring up this fact people want to kill the messenger.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Woggle - I was thinking about this last night as I was bringing my new little lambs into the barn to save them from being coyote take-out meals. By your reasoning in your OP, would not women who evidently hate men and take out their hatred on ALL men, including the innocent ones - perhaps, like your own mother and ex wife - be equally deserving of empathy? This is just a rhetorical question. But if it were so, perhaps the "gender war" that you and many others here on LS are engaged in could be reduced to ground zero.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 It's not just on this board. Both genders are very much on their own sides. Just look at any news story involving gender and look at the comments on a normal board like AOL or Yahoo. The genders are usually very divided yet when I bring up this fact people want to kill the messenger. But, people who participate in the "war" are doing so by choice. Believe me or don't, but I'm telling you that there is a whole world of people out here who are NOT dividing humans according to their gender and using that as a fighting point. Truly.
Author Woggle Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 Woggle - I was thinking about this last night as I was bringing my new little lambs into the barn to save them from being coyote take-out meals. By your reasoning in your OP, would not women who evidently hate men and take out their hatred on ALL men, including the innocent ones - perhaps, like your own mother and ex wife - be equally deserving of empathy? This is just a rhetorical question. But if it were so, perhaps the "gender war" that you and many others here on LS are engaged in could be reduced to ground zero. I guess so. There have been times here when a woman comes on here in pain and I have actually been sympathetic because she is just venting. The ones I have an issue with are women who act like men are not even human beings or the ones who think men deserve whatever we get because now it is time to turn the tables. They are the ones I have an issue with. Somebody that people to blamed for the actions of others but how do you think men feel when we are told we deserve whatever we get because it is now payback time?
denise_xo Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 But, people who participate in the "war" are doing so by choice. Believe me or don't, but I'm telling you that there is a whole world of people out here who are NOT dividing humans according to their gender and using that as a fighting point. Truly. This. That's simply an empirical fact.
Cee Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Somebody that people to blamed for the actions of others but how do you think men feel when we are told we deserve whatever we get because it is now payback time? I don't get the blame game at all. It's a one down position. I take responsibility for everything that happens in a relationship. I have the power to freely enter and leave relationships, good or bad. When my ex cheated on me and stole money, I didn't vow revenge. Instead, I divorced him and never saw him again. I have no residual anger or bitterness towards him. I have led such a good life post-divorce, that I have mostly forgotten about him. It took a few years, but I healed completely. If a woman is posting that she's getting men back, then she is re-enacting the cycle of her past abusive relationship. And she's abusing herself by doing that. To be happy, a person must walk a whole new path, not repeat unhealthy relating patterns.
Pyro Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 But, people who participate in the "war" are doing so by choice. Believe me or don't, but I'm telling you that there is a whole world of people out here who are NOT dividing humans according to their gender and using that as a fighting point. Truly. Such wise words. Anyone who feels that they are in a war are doing it by choice. You enter it by choice and you can exit it by choice.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I simply don't understand this "gender war." Same as I don't understand why it's creepy for me to approach a woman for friendship, but if another woman approaches her in a similar manner, they become best buds. I am not one to point the finger at feminism, but I believe that there is some truth to how feminism has destroyed relationships. There simply can't be all that hate without some bit of logic behind it.
xpaperxcutx Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I simply don't understand this "gender war." Same as I don't understand why it's creepy for me to approach a woman for friendship, but if another woman approaches her in a similar manner, they become best buds. I am not one to point the finger at feminism, but I believe that there is some truth to how feminism has destroyed relationships. There simply can't be all that hate without some bit of logic behind it. LS is the only place I hear and read the word feminist the most, even more than when I studied the Women's Movement back in history class. I associate Feminism with equal gender rights, and I hardly, if ever apply it in terms of dating; and it surprises me that I'm being accused of being a feminazi. If anything, I see dating as having double standards for both men and women- not gender bashing.
Pyro Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 LS is the only place I hear and read the word feminist the most, even more than when I studied the Women's Movement back in history class. I associate Feminism with equal gender rights, and I hardly, if ever apply it in terms of dating; and it surprises me that I'm being accused of being a feminazi. If anything, I see dating as having double standards for both men and women- not gender bashing. Woggle brings that word and the hatred he has for it here from other message boards and articles that focus on the destruction of the female population.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Oh, come on: Shadow and SACWA have their issues, as do many people here, male and female, and as do we all at different times in our lives, but they're nowhere NEAR as one-note as WB or Steve80 AND they're actually writing about what happens in their lives, not hypotheticals. WB posts things about women based on watching movies and reading things on the internet . . . he's embittered without any experience. OG/SACWA used to post her own sordid dating life and its issues. The two are not equivalent at all. The way I see it, they are actually out in the world consistently treating those they date like shyte. Guys like WB are bitter because they struggle to get experience. Face it, for some guys dating is REALLY HARD! It takes a huge amount of self esteem and thick skin. The women out there for the most part put out the effort to be nice about it... but rejection is rejection. Do you think they would be singing the same tune if someone gave them a chance? I somehow missed this post Leigh, SACWA and SP all internalized their romantic deceptions to the point of it leading to body dysmorphia for both Leigh and SP. They blamed themselves - not men. It's a far cry from some of the generalizations about women other members like to indulge in. No... it's the same kind of crazy just expressed in different ways. The women physically act out. They say and do HORRIBLE things to the guys they are with. They barely distinguish men as individuals and use them to try and fill whatever emotional hole is currently driving them. I've seen you spend HOURS of your life providing them guidance and for what? No change is possible Yet you can barely muster up a kind word for guys like WB or Steve80. Guys who your kindness over time could actually make a difference!
jean-luc sisko Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Men bitter at dating (and their dating experiences) probably have smaller endowments. they should man up and expect that not all dating experiences will be pleasant.
xpaperxcutx Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Guys like WB are bitter because they struggle to get experience. Face it, for some guys dating is REALLY HARD! It takes a huge amount of self esteem and thick skin. The women out there for the most part put out the effort to be nice about it... but rejection is rejection. Do you think they would be singing the same tune if someone gave them a chance? You're kidding right? Last I heard, WB haven't even tried to date, so how does one struggle when he hasn't tried? And from what I know, people grow from naivete, not from doing nothing. One does not learn anything from being bias to begin with. No... it's the same kind of crazy just expressed in different ways. The women physically act out. They say and do HORRIBLE things to the guys they are with. They barely distinguish men as individuals and use them to try and fill whatever emotional hole is currently driving them. I've seen you spend HOURS of your life providing them guidance and for what? No change is possible Yet you can barely muster up a kind word for guys like WB or Steve80. Guys who your kindness over time could actually make a difference! And all this you got from reading S_P and OG's posts? Last I heard, those two have issues and I doubt women everywhere actually want them to represent the entire gender as a whole.
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