Kamille Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 So, here is what you actually said. To a poster who was literally just using a guy for her own emotional validation, and was treating him in a completely unacceptable way. I'm sorry but you are 100 times harsher in a thread where a guy says "all women do ____". If you can find it within yourself to dress that guy down with super harsh language... a guy who has done nothing bad to anybody... Why do you feel the need to coddle and empathize a woman who is HORRIBLE to her BF? You literally took the position that the whole thing was his fault and that she just did some stuff to make the situation a little worse. I'm not saying your advice was wrong... it was decent advice, it was just coming from a totally wrong angle. :lmao: You take the cake. Seriously! That is how you understood that post? Where in the hell, specifically, do I say that the whole thing was his fault???? I do not see it. Pin point it for me please. And also... Do you fail to see that I'm holding her accountable??? By me This is sex: you are responsible for your enjoyment. In the future, if you feel yourself getting sore: tell him so! Gently, nicely and then, if you stop, make sure that you cuddle and make him feel cherished.
Kamille Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) And let's not forget the point that the exert Untouchable fire cited was considered by both men and women on that thread to be too lenient and to show too much empathy to OG. Basically, you guys are saying that is what you consider misandry? Instead of blatantly screaming: You evil drama queen, I told her: here's where your thinking can be redirected? This without ONCE saying the whole thing was his fault - since I didn't think that - but rather by saying she was responsible for the whole thing? So if that is the best example of misandry you can find on this board, I think I rest my case. It's very subtle indeed. Edited February 27, 2011 by Kamille
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 You take the cake. Seriously! That is how you understood that post? Where in the hell, specifically, do I say that the whole thing was his fault???? I do not see it. Pin point it for me please. And also... Do you fail to see that I'm holding her accountable??? By me That is actually what I was referencing by stating your advice was fairly sound. Although seriously... cuddling to make him feel cherished? I think that would work better on a woman than a man. In regards to your tone. Yes, it was about HIM doing poorly and disappointing HER, not the other way around. I just don't think you let her know how mean her actions were. Maybe you were trying to be super nice... but why? You didn't feel that compunction when posting in a guys thread? For the next few weeks I'm going to pick out what I consider "women's club" threads, where the women of LS either ignore or sympathize with posters who treat the men in their lives poorly. I will post on that topic to create awareness.
Kamille Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 That is actually what I was referencing by stating your advice was fairly sound. Although seriously... cuddling to make him feel cherished? I think that would work better on a woman than a man. In regards to your tone. Yes, it was about HIM doing poorly and disappointing HER, not the other way around. I just don't think you let her know how mean her actions were. My goal was to get her to take responsibility for herself and learn to assert herself. Nowhere did I say he was doing poorly. That's an interpretation you're imposing on the framework. It isn't there. Maybe you were trying to be super nice... but why? You didn't feel that compunction when posting in a guys thread? Fine, I'll play. Link a post where I'm being unnecessarily rude to a guy. Again - if I'm the best example of a misandrist you can find on this board... I don't even know how to finish that sentence! So let me ask... Seriously: Am I the best example of an misandrist you could find on this board???
sally4sara Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 For the next few weeks I'm going to pick out what I consider "women's club" threads, where the women of LS either ignore or sympathize with posters who treat the men in their lives poorly. I will post on that topic to create awareness. Personally UF, I'll prolly ignore it. Why would I care what someone who turns a blind eye to trashy hatemongers finds in threads where women are not being encouraged to model the OP's behavior or told how all men deserve to be mistreated? All it says to me is you want women hen pecked while also finding threads advocating the mistreatment of them entertaining and valuable. That's where my empathy dries up. I have empathy for people who respect humanity, not just their own gender. People who only respect their own gender is PART OF THE PROBLEM. Without them we'd have better relations entirely.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 Sally, people don't become misogynistic, or misandristic, overnight. It takes some time, and hurt on the part of the person, to develop that kind of viewpoint. That's why I tend to try to see it from their viewpoint, rather than get angry or upset and shout out "you're sick!" And for the record, men/women who are players or play games aren't any more healthy.
Distant78 Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 People don't feel for people who are hurt because they're stuck-up and heartless. The only feelings they care about are theirs.
sally4sara Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 Sally, people don't become misogynistic, or misandristic, overnight. It takes some time, and hurt on the part of the person, to develop that kind of viewpoint. That's why I tend to try to see it from their viewpoint, rather than get angry or upset and shout out "you're sick!" And for the record, men/women who are players or play games aren't any more healthy. Oh yes, I've had a perfect unblemished life and no one has ever caused me damage. I just don't get what its like to go through physical and emotional pain. Please. If we didn't give them the satisfaction of being entertained, they'd have to discuss their problems without perpetuating hateful interactions. And then they'd get better help because more people would want to lend them an ear.
Distant78 Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 Oh yes, I've had a perfect unblemished life and no one has ever caused me damage. I just don't get what its like to go through physical and emotional pain. Please. That's exactly what you say in your posts. Everything's handy-dandy and you must except ALL of your spouse's "friends" and co-worker friends, and whoever. If we didn't give them the satisfaction of being entertained, they'd have to discuss their problems without perpetuating hateful interactions. And then they'd get better help because more people would want to lend them an ear. It's not hateful interactions on a freaking internet site. People just all of a sudden assume a poster is bitter because he has a no-nonsense approach to his opinions.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 Oh yes, I've had a perfect unblemished life and no one has ever caused me damage. I just don't get what its like to go through physical and emotional pain. Please. If we didn't give them the satisfaction of being entertained, they'd have to discuss their problems without perpetuating hateful interactions. And then they'd get better help because more people would want to lend them an ear. So, what are you suggesting? What are you proposing? For the record, I don't have much luck with girls, and I didn't come here to "be entertained." I came here for solutions to my problems. Empathy is not only saved for mentally healthy people. Are you saying that you feel no empathy for someone who suffers from a mental illness, like Bipolar or Schizophrenia?
sally4sara Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 That's exactly what you say in your posts. Everything's handy-dandy and you must except ALL of your spouse's "friends" and co-worker friends, and whoever. It's not hateful interactions on a freaking internet site. People just all of a sudden assume a poster is bitter because he has a no-nonsense approach to his opinions. You must have missed the ones about the alcoholic, cheating ex or the abusive step dad and mom. I didn't walk around hating all men and advocating their mistreatment up to the day I met my husband. And I don't see how being happy NOW means the crap I dealt with in the past is forgotten and lacking credibility. I'd even go so far as to say if I DID run around with a crap attitude about my past, I'd likely have not ended up in the happy situation I am now. But lets pretend we are helping the hateful ones by encouraging their hate and not just being amused by them because they say what you secretly want to hear about the gender you don't trust. Hell I just saw you talk about women with a negative blanket statement in another thread when you've also said you're in a happy relationship and soon to be marry! If that's how you feel about women in general then don't marry the woman. But if you do have a lovely woman in your life - don't feed the trolls. Correct them. Tell them you have proof that there are still good people in the world.
xpaperxcutx Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 For the record, I don't have much luck with girls, and I didn't come here to "be entertained." I came here for solutions to my problems. Empathy is not only saved for mentally healthy people. Are you saying that you feel no empathy for someone who suffers from a mental illness, like Bipolar or Schizophrenia? Being dateless is more of a minor obstacle than comparing yourself to the mentally ill. Getting a date is something you can control, having depression is not. If you are asking for empathy, ask yourself how long you've been in the " dateless" position. When people's patiences are tried, empathy can turn into apathy and resentment. This is why repetitive threads that pop up by the same posters that " complain" about this or that usually receive backlashes. I'm not saying that this is you, but it's one thing to have your bad days and another to constantly " whine" about women not giving you a chance.
xpaperxcutx Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 You must have missed the ones about the alcoholic, cheating ex or the abusive step dad and mom. I didn't walk around hating all men and advocating their mistreatment up to the day I met my husband. And I don't see how being happy NOW means the crap I dealt with in the past is forgotten and lacking credibility. I'd even go so far as to say if I DID run around with a crap attitude about my past, I'd likely have not ended up in the happy situation I am now. But lets pretend we are helping the hateful ones by encouraging their hate and not just being amused by them because they say what you secretly want to hear about the gender you don't trust. Hell I just saw you talk about women with a negative blanket statement in another thread when you've also said you're in a happy relationship and soon to be marry! If that's how you feel about women in general then don't marry the woman. But if you do have a lovely woman in your life - don't feed the trolls. Correct them. Tell them you have proof that there are still good people in the world. Sally I posted after you but I agree with you 100%. The only solution is to seek a adamant role in correcting the problem, not prolonging it.
Distant78 Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 You must have missed the ones about the alcoholic, cheating ex or the abusive step dad and mom. I didn't walk around hating all men and advocating their mistreatment up to the day I met my husband. And I don't see how being happy NOW means the crap I dealt with in the past is forgotten and lacking credibility. I'd even go so far as to say if I DID run around with a crap attitude about my past, I'd likely have not ended up in the happy situation I am now. But why give folks who's down the get-over-it talk? That's not doing anything. Hell I just saw you talk about women with a negative blanket statement in another thread when you've also said you're in a happy relationship and soon to be marry! If that's how you feel about women in general then don't marry the woman. Women talk badly about men, yet their still in good relationships. It's called venting. Hell look at Woggle. So you telling me not to marry my baby is irrelevant. But if you do have a lovely woman in your life - don't feed the trolls. Correct them. Tell them you have proof that there are still good people in the world. I do. If you stop being so selective in my posts you'd see that.
sally4sara Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 So, what are you suggesting? What are you proposing? We got Tony. One guy. So we have to cop ourselves. Someone comes in with the hateful stuff and isn't asking for help - why bother with it? Say they do this but are seeking help - be willing to tell them you understand they are hurting but the tone isn't part of what we're trying to cultivate here so if they can try to interact without it they are welcome. If they continue they are not welcome. Its called a community yeah? Yup right up there in the left. Community Forums.
Kamille Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 Just had another thought about the empathy topic. UF, you're right. I did give OG a lot of my attention. But there's a reason. She opened up about her issues. She would discuss them (to some extent). She talked about her life and what was happening in it. When you look at how the "bitter men" post on here, you will notice one constant: few actually talk about themselves. It's much harder to go into the kind of detailed analysis I could indulge in with OG when all I've got to go on is: "Women are such drama queens! Men, don't put up with their bull****", or "Women like jerks. This women posted this on an LS thread back in april 2007 which proves all women love jerks". Or "it's been 7 years since I've gotten a date. Women suck". Often I've asked those guys if they wanted to talk about their experiences trying to get dates, only to be ignored or laughed at. Final analysis: perhaps the sense of lack of empathy stems from the fact these posters do not actually allow themselves to be vulnerable on these boards. It's easier to help someone when they open up. Otherwise, all one can do is remain at the surface of issues.
Distant78 Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 When you look at how the "bitter men" post on here, you will notice one constant: few they actually talk about themselves. How do you know their bitter? And so what if posters talk about themselves? Isn't that what we're all here for?
xpaperxcutx Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 But why give folks who's down the get-over-it talk? That's not doing anything. "Get-over-it talk"? I have seen more than one poster giving well thought out constructive advices that have been ignored time and time again. Women talk badly about men, yet their still in good relationships. It's called venting. Hell look at Woggle. So you telling me not to marry my baby is irrelevant. Nothing against venting, but most posters start threads where they need to subject their lopsided views onto everyone. If there's something they need to get off their chest, the buttons on top will direct them to the Personal Rants and Confessions Forum. I am well aware of woggle and his issues. I've also commended him before in old threads about making progress, but he has a tendency to relapse into his " women are evil" phase. When he gets like this I certainly don't want to encourage him and his views.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 I just cannot "empathize" with someone who makes, condones or defends hateful generalizations against entire groups of people, whether gender, race, religion, nationality, or whatever-based. The only way I can even understand someone who does that is by just chalking it up to bigotry, well defined on the Internet by an anonymous author: People act in discriminatory and biased ways through ignorance, fear and low self-esteem. They seek validation of a sense of importance by imagining some superiority to others. Bigoted people ignore the reality that there’s greater diversity within any grouping (men, women, black, white, gay, straight) than there is between these groupings. This rooted tendency to respond to uncertainty by imposing some personal security blanket on the world is what produces discrimination. What we can’t suppress, we fear.
Kamille Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 Isn't that what we're all here for? Yes, however I said this: the posters that we here are discussing (as per Woggle's suggestion, the "bitter men"), generally do not talk about themselves. It is thus difficult to empathize with them the same way one can empathize with a poster who is here discussing actual situations in their lives.
Distant78 Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 "Get-over-it talk"? I have seen more than one poster giving well thought out constructive advices that have been ignored time and time again. Hmph. Nothing against venting, but most posters start threads where they need to subject their lopsided views onto everyone. It's their opinions. Everyone has a "lopsided" view of everyone. If there's something they need to get off their chest, the buttons on top will direct them to the Personal Rants and Confessions Forum. That doesn't stop folks from criticizing them. I am well aware of woggle and his issues. I've also commended him before in old threads about making progress, but he has a tendency to relapse into his " women are evil" phase. When he gets like this I certainly don't want to encourage him and his views. Okay. He's traumatized from his past and at least he's trying to get over it. Nothing wrong with venting. Everyone does it. Even you.
Distant78 Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 Yes, however I said this: the posters that we here are discussing (as per Woggle's suggestion, the "bitter men"), generally do not talk about themselves. It is thus difficult to empathize with them the same way one can empathize with a poster who is here discussing actual situations in their lives. But Woggle does talk about himself when he vents because it's HIS situation. People shouldn't have to always blame themselves for every freaking thing that went wrong around them, in order to receive good quality advice.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 Final analysis: perhaps the sense of lack of empathy stems from the fact these posters do not actually allow themselves to be vulnerable on these boards. It's easier to help someone when they open up. Otherwise, all one can do is remain at the surface of issues. I see this too. Why don't they post personal information? I hate posting information about myself and how I feel.
Kamille Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) But Woggle does talk about himself when he vents because it's HIS situation. Yes, and I empathize with Woggle. People shouldn't have to always blame themselves for every freaking thing that went wrong around them, in order to receive good quality advice. Not what I said. I said people tend to empathize more when posters give more details about their situations. I didn't say anything about "blaming" themselves. Ask UF, he knows I'm not the kind to ask people to blame themselves . (At least, not enough to his liking ) UF, yes I know. It goes back to the fact that there is a double standard when it comes to how men and women are allowed to express emotions. But even then, you see plenty of male posters talk about their separations, issues with their gf, etc. These posters tend to receive empathy. Edited February 27, 2011 by Kamille
xpaperxcutx Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 It's their opinions. Everyone has a "lopsided" view of everyone. That doesn't stop folks from criticizing them. Okay. He's traumatized from his past and at least he's trying to get over it. Nothing wrong with venting. Everyone does it. Even you. I own up to my problems. I don't take it out on anyone else but myself. Woggle on the other hand externalize his problem. I don't want to chastise him for acting the way he does because he has no control over it, but I'm not going to " enable' him either to continue this kind of thinking. I think the issue here isn't emphatizing with " bitterness", it's about how to civilly dispel it and encourage more open and positive thinking. The important thing is rationalization and reasoning, not opinionated and bias views. Again, alot of posters have encouraged construstive advices.
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