Mrlonelyone Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 The question is the title. Why do so many of you guys consider it to be a red flag that a woman wants to pay her way on a date? I don't see it as a red flag or a green light. If anything to me a woman who never wanted to pay for anything would feel like being used for entertainment. Especially early on in the relationship. What am I missing?
nat_nat Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I agree with you, I don't get that either! But I'd say it's more of a red flag to NOT pay for a date. I always suggest going half and half, why should it be any other way when you're still getting to know each other?! If I went on a date that was a complete waste of time or just generally awful, I'd be less pleased about paying and wouldn't offer as enthusiastically if at all. So that would be my clue that I'm not keen on him
carhill Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 OP, it's a non-issue with me. I don't judge a prospective date by the size of speed with which they place their bankroll on the table. *If* we're having a good time and enjoying each other's company, it evolves and is synergistic. In another realm, it gives me great pleasure to treat my best friend to lunch or dinner as he is a man whom is used to paying for everything and has the wealth to do so. He accepts my generosity because we are friends and that's what friends do, irrespective of our relative abilities to pay. I do have to fight him for the check on occasion though
Jazzari Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 Offering to pay is fine. But if the man insists upon paying then the woman should let him. It's just rude to do otherwise. If you bought the man a gift and he said "no thanks" and handed it back, what you you think? It's a rejection. The guy is trying to do something nice for you. Let him.
Cee Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I think it depends on context. When I was going on online dates, I made the weak offer to pay and then let the guy pay. In my current relationship, often we go dutch, but that's because it's easier to settle a bill. Last night, we were at a happy hour thing and we were ordering food and drinks separately. He settled his bill before me and when the bartender handed me my check, I thought it would be rude to hand it to him. I went to his birthday party at a bar last week and ordered food and drinks. I had to leave early, so I left my bill with him. I felt bad about it because he's the birthday boy, but he does like to pay for stuff. So I let him.
Els Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I think the majority of guys said it was one if the woman INSISTED on paying her way and would have it no other way. Pretty darn big difference. I know that if I ever insist to the point of not backing down no matter what, it pretty much means I am completely uninterested and want to set strong friends boundaries. And also that I don't ever want to see him again so I don't owe him anything.
xpaperxcutx Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I think the majority of guys said it was one if the woman INSISTED on paying her way and would have it no other way. Pretty darn big difference. I know that if I ever insist to the point of not backing down no matter what, it pretty much means I am completely uninterested and want to set strong friends boundaries. And also that I don't ever want to see him again so I don't owe him anything. Agreed. I'll offer to pay for two reasons- If I'm not interested and I want to draw a line so that later on he won't think I owe him anything or I appreciate the gesture of him paying for me, and I'll offer to pay half if the bill came out too high for a typical date. Even if I don't pay, I usually get the dessert or offer to pay for something else on consecutive dates. I'm not a cheap person, but I don't expect my date to be cheap either.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 Agreed. I'll offer to pay for two reasons- If I'm not interested and I want to draw a line so that later on he won't think I owe him anything or I appreciate the gesture of him paying for me, and I'll offer to pay half if the bill came out too high for a typical date. So a woman offering to pay is a red flag if they insist... but a green flag if the bill is too high... In short assuming it is 100% bad is not wise.
xpaperxcutx Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 So a woman offering to pay is a red flag if they insist... but a green flag if the bill is too high... In short assuming it is 100% bad is not wise. I cannot speak for all women but that is how I operate. I've known people who had no problem being paid for everything and rather enjoy it. I guess I have moral standards for myself.
Els Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 So a woman offering to pay is a red flag if they insist... but a green flag if the bill is too high... In short assuming it is 100% bad is not wise. Correct..........
Titania22 Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I'll offer to pay half if the bill came out too high for a typical date. If the bill was too high for a typical date, I couldn't afford to offer to pay half. Fortunately the only way this would happen is if he is ordering up big.
xpaperxcutx Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 If the bill was too high for a typical date, I couldn't afford to offer to pay half. Fortunately the only way this would happen is if he is ordering up big. That is true too. Fortunately, haven't happened to me yet...
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 If the bill was too high for a typical date, I couldn't afford to offer to pay half. Fortunately the only way this would happen is if he is ordering up big. I told a friend recently that if he can't afford to pay he should not be dating at all. He dates overweight women and they tend to pay for him.
Alexz Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 He dates overweight women and they tend to pay for him. Wow, that made me laugh alot.
Titania22 Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I told a friend recently that if he can't afford to pay he should not be dating at all. He dates overweight women and they tend to pay for him. Haha. I don't date much myself, and I never order more then I can afford for a treat. And I always have money on me just in case. (The bright side of having a restrictive budget, is that I tend to consume less calories, which makes it easier to keep my body from expanding. Although I can out eat any man in chocolate.)
musemaj11 Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I told a friend recently that if he can't afford to pay he should not be dating at all. He dates overweight women and they tend to pay for him. I know I should be laughing, but that guy is a jerk. PS: You see Sally4Sara? Im fair, arent I?
zengirl Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Offering to pay is fine. But if the man insists upon paying then the woman should let him. It's just rude to do otherwise. If you bought the man a gift and he said "no thanks" and handed it back, what you you think? It's a rejection. The guy is trying to do something nice for you. Let him. That's how I see it, though I will insist if I know I'm not planning on going out with the guy again---I hate to have someone spend money on me only to reject them. And THAT would be the red flag with insisting. Though, really, not one you need to watch for; you'll figure it out soon enough when she doesn't go out with you again (and in my case, I'll let the guy know that when he calls me, rather than just ignoring him like he doesn't exist).
denise_xo Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 On the thing of offering to pay as rejecting a gift: I guess for me, the question becomes: is a man insisting to pay because it's a genuine gift, or because this is, after all, the behaviour that is expected of a man and if he doesn't insist he will be labelled 'cheap'? I'm not saying that men who offer to pay don't genuinely want to offer that gift - but cultural conventions seem to dictate that they need to make and follow through on that offer, period. I might be getting this wrong because I don't live in the US, but this is the impression one is left with when observing these discussion from the sideline.
zengirl Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 On the thing of offering to pay as rejecting a gift: I guess for me, the question becomes: is a man insisting to pay because it's a genuine gift, or because this is, after all, the behaviour that is expected of a man and if he doesn't insist he will be labelled 'cheap'? I'm not saying that men who offer to pay don't genuinely want to offer that gift - but cultural conventions seem to dictate that they need to make and follow through on that offer, period. I might be getting this wrong because I don't live in the US, but this is the impression one is left with when observing these discussion from the sideline. I think with some of the people here who are so scorched and burned by dating, it does, but most of the men I've met and known (not sure about every guy I've ever dated, of course) have been sincere and genuine in offering when they like a woman. I think it goes to the natural desire to "win" her. Which is, of course, another issue for some people, who find it offensive that a woman could be "won" but I try to "win" a man too (albeit in different cultural ways) when I like him, so it doesn't bother me so much. The cultural expectation is internalized for most people, just like every other cultural expectation is. Of course, the people who talk about it the most will be the ones who see it as an issue, but I don't think this is the case for most people. YMMV.
EasyHeart Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I'm confused by some of you arbitrarily sticking in the word "insisting". There is a big difference between a man paying a bill and "insisting" on paying a bill; and there is a big difference between a woman paying part of a bill and a woman "insisting" on paying part of a bill. As a man, I always plan on paying the bill. I have never "insisted" on paying a bill. IME, the typical first date bill-discussion is usually something like: ME: (Picks up check) HER: (Reaches for purse) What's my share? ME: Don't worry about it. It's my treat. HER: Are you sure? ME: Absolutely. (Insert clever comment that makes her smile) HER: Thank you! In that scenario, I don't think anyone was "insisting" on paying. We were just exercising good manners. After the first date, I always assume that I'm paying, but I play it by ear and if she offers to pay, that's fine. A lot depends on how much money she makes: if I make significantly more than her, then I expect to pay the bill more often; if we make about the same, then I figure she should pay more often. I've only had women "insist" on paying for the first date a few times. IMO, "insisting" on paying either means (1) she is some sort of radical feminist who sees men oppressing her in every little thing, (2) she has some sort of psychological damage, (3) she doesn't like me and doesn't want to see me again. I consider all of those to be bad things. And it's the "insisting" that is the red flag. But that only applies to the first date. After the first date, it depends on the circumstances. I honestly have never seen "who pays" as an issue (at least as far as I know!) Question for women who are offended by men paying for the first date: Do you offer to pay for half the bill or all of the bill? If you don't offer to pay the whole thing, why not?
denise_xo Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Question for women who are offended by men paying for the first date: Do you offer to pay for half the bill or all of the bill? If you don't offer to pay the whole thing, why not? I am not offended by it. But the norm where I come from is to share the expenses and there is no expectation that the man (or woman) pays the whole bill. I like it that way, because I don't really see any good reason why the man should pay. It doesn't make sense to me. How it's split depends on the context, how many 'common expenses' are planned and what the other person signals. Sometimes it's one person pays one thing, the other person pays the next thing, sometimes it's split down the middle. I'm fine with either way.
Jazzari Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 That's how I see it, though I will insist if I know I'm not planning on going out with the guy again---I hate to have someone spend money on me only to reject them. And THAT would be the red flag with insisting. Though, really, not one you need to watch for; you'll figure it out soon enough when she doesn't go out with you again (and in my case, I'll let the guy know that when he calls me, rather than just ignoring him like he doesn't exist).I agree. I think its good manners to pay if you don't plan on seeing the man again. On the thing of offering to pay as rejecting a gift: I guess for me, the question becomes: is a man insisting to pay because it's a genuine gift, or because this is, after all, the behaviour that is expected of a man and if he doesn't insist he will be labelled 'cheap'? I'm not saying that men who offer to pay don't genuinely want to offer that gift - but cultural conventions seem to dictate that they need to make and follow through on that offer, period. I might be getting this wrong because I don't live in the US, but this is the impression one is left with when observing these discussion from the sideline.Good question. I'll have to ask my son and see what he says. But I think its not so much being labeled cheap and more like being seen as disrespectful and uncouth. Men are taught to open doors, pay for first dates and bring flowers on special occasions. You treat a lady like a lady. As a man, I always plan on paying the bill. I have never "insisted" on paying a bill. IME, the typical first date bill-discussion is usually something like: ME: (Picks up check) HER: (Reaches for purse) What's my share? ME: Don't worry about it. It's my treat. HER: Are you sure? ME: Absolutely. (Insert clever comment that makes her smile) HER: Thank you! In that scenario, I don't think anyone was "insisting" on paying. We were just exercising good manners.That's how it usually works with me too. I agree both are exercising good manners. I've never been offended by someone offereing to pay for dinner.
Els Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I'm confused by some of you arbitrarily sticking in the word "insisting". There is a big difference between a man paying a bill and "insisting" on paying a bill; and there is a big difference between a woman paying part of a bill and a woman "insisting" on paying part of a bill. Indeed there is. My point to the OP was that the majority of people who class it as a red flag ARE talking about the woman 'insisting' on paying.
purplehouse Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I've always gone dutch or at least offered to go halves. They either insist that they pay or are happy to go halves also. For small things like a coffee or a drink i don't mind letting them pay if they offer to buy me one, but i would always do the same in return next time.
musemaj11 Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 On the thing of offering to pay as rejecting a gift: I guess for me, the question becomes: is a man insisting to pay because it's a genuine gift, or because this is, after all, the behaviour that is expected of a man and if he doesn't insist he will be labelled 'cheap'? I'm not saying that men who offer to pay don't genuinely want to offer that gift - but cultural conventions seem to dictate that they need to make and follow through on that offer, period. I might be getting this wrong because I don't live in the US, but this is the impression one is left with when observing these discussion from the sideline. If the asker insists to pay, you should let him/her especially if the cost of the date isnt expensive. Maybe insist on paying for the tip. And any appreciative person will pick up the tab on the next date. What is messed up is if you expect someone to always pick up the tabs for consecutive dates. Thats just such a cheapskate.
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