NoIDidn't Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I've always maintained that I don't know if I would cheat or not. I lean more towards not because I know what it does to the innocent and to those actively in the affair. But I do know that if I did, it wouldn't be to "get back at" my H for what he did. What would you call an affair that comes about because you can't be judged harshly by a person that's already done it on you, but you still don't want to get caught or throw it in their faces? Mostly discussion. Trying to categorize it because its something that many of my GFs and I talk about. Its very strange to love a man and decide you can cheat on him because he's done it to you, but it not be about revenge but about in love again like he did for a moment and wanting something/one different. Its starting to sound like a run-of-the-mill affair. But the fact that the person doing it was cheated on before complicates things. What do you think? (Don't get me wrong, I'm aware it sounds and probably is childish, just want other opinions)
PegNosePete Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 What would you call an affair ... I call it an affair. The end.
woinlove Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I think some people manage to have affairs without a lot of guilt about how they are treating others, either because they aren't very kind people to start with or they manage to suppress the feelings of kindness and compassion toward others through rationalization and compartmentalization or they are currently broken and not in a mature, healthy state. Perhaps if someone has been cheated on, they lose self-esteem and can remain broken longer than their anger holds. This would allow them to treat others poorly even though they aren't doing it in an angry, revenge mode. Any way you cut it, it is an affair, and if they are seriously thinking of this, they might benefit from analyzing what that is telling them. Maybe they are still hurting? Maybe their love for the WS has died? Maybe they don't believe their spouse can really love them? If this isn't how they would typically treat someone, I think they likely would end up feeling bad about their behavior, whatever the motivation behind it.
TaraMaiden Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 What would you call an affair that comes about because you can't be judged harshly by a person that's already done it on you, but you still don't want to get caught or throw it in their faces? oh we can dress it up in all sorts of different titles. Manure. Organic fertilizer. Cow-poo. Horses**t. plant-food. fragrant mulch. it really doesn't matter what you call it, it's still the same thing. Mostly discussion. Trying to categorize it because its something that many of my GFs and I talk about. Its very strange to love a man and decide you can cheat on him because he's done it to you, but it not be about revenge but about in love again like he did for a moment and wanting something/one different. ...What...? Opening your legs and being willing to be phukked by any other person other than your SO - is cheating. 'Categorising' simply makes excuses and justifies it in your own mind. Trying to categorise the action is simply a means of lifting the guilt. Dream on.... Its starting to sound like a run-of-the-mill affair. But the fact that the person doing it was cheated on before complicates things. I really don't see how it complicates things at all. being cheated on doesn't give you carte-blanche or justification to cheat. Cheating is cheating. Whatever the underlying situation, it's a personal and deliberate choice. One action doesn't cancel the other out, and neither does it 'pay it back ' and "let's call it evens". It's a brand-new, all-encompassing, deliberate action of cheating. What do you think? (Don't get me wrong, I'm aware it sounds and probably is childish, just want other opinions) No, not childish. Just very dangerous, and really extremely blinkered if you and your friends honestly believe cheating is a suitable tit-for-tat, 'he did it to me, so it's excusable' option. It isn't. It's sordid, hurtful, and utterly destructive.
PeachyPink Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I was prepared to post that it could be categorized as improper, but I think Tara said it best.
greengoddess Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 Actually I think it is even worse not more justified. The BS already totally understands the pain an affair causes all those involved so to engage in one knowing full well of the pain is much worse. I think sometimes the ws feels the bs doesn't care anymore and they justify the affair that way but the BS KNOWS the pain. No justification. Affairs SUCK!
bentnotbroken Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 It still is not honoring the vows. NID, I know lots of people need to label things, affairs are no different. Whether they are labeled, revenge, ONS, exit, soul mates...they all lead to one thing...the wrong thing. They cause the destruction of trust, emotional turmoil, in some cases health issues and a pain that could have been avoided. My GF and I have also had the "what if" discussions that might precede an affair, yet the endings all seem strangely the same. Interesting discussion though.
trinity1 Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I don't understand affairs. The communication in a marriage should be based on total honesty. I could understand a one-night-stand and confessing the next day, but no more than that. And two wrongs don't make one right.
greengoddess Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I don't understand affairs. The communication in a marriage should be based on total honesty. I could understand a one-night-stand and confessing the next day, but no more than that. And two wrongs don't make one right. I totally agree. What kind of person runs around sneaking around having a secondary relationship when they are married? What kind of person does this and what kind of person would help them do this. It is so simple. TALK TO YOUR SPOUSE IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY. In the case of the affair person it is so simple to. TALK TO YOUR MM/MW. Tell them you refuse to have an affair and if they want a relationship with you it will be an honest one. It's all so simple.
xxoo Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 If you have been faithful in a longterm mono relationship, and your partner cheated, I think it is a very human response to want to get a "free pass" to be selfish and act irresponsibly. That may be extramarital sex, or it may be something else. It doesn't make it right, of course, but it does seem normal to me. Sometimes, of course, the BS was selfish and irresponsible before the affair, and that should be acknowledged. Nevertheless, if the marriage is to reconcile, these are the kinds of things that need to be communicated between the BS and the fWS. Having an affair in secret will only add to the issues that divide you. Baring your soul and sharing your darkest needs is what can bring you closer. As to what kind of affair this would be? I'd say it is a Self-medicating affair. You begin it to lessen your immediate pain, but it ultimately leads to more longterm pain.
Spark1111 Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 fBS here...... To be brutally honest, I would call this the resentment affair and I believe these feelings are absolutely normal. I have communicated them to my former WS and oh boy, does he ever get it! Who in their right mind, WOULDN'T want someone hanging on to our every word, telling us how wonderful we are, ripping our clothes off, making us laugh and feel like the most precious and cherished person in the world as we multi-orgasm with some new flesh? I mean, really! I am not dense. Who wouldn't want to again experience those heady hormonal rushes, feeling more alive, like a teenager again? I am taking the morality out of this equation because I, better than anyone, do know the pain it causes. But my inner child, the one who was always such a good girl, the straight-A student; the one who always believed you do right and you will be rewarded; is having one helluva a tantrum that shouts: I want that too! Now the adult answers: Only with my spouse. So is it jealousy? Resentment? He got to have that (at GREAT, GREAT COST) and I did not? And I think that is a normal, human, emotion in the aftermath of an affair.
ladydesigner Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 fBS here...... To be brutally honest, I would call this the resentment affair and I believe these feelings are absolutely normal. I have communicated them to my former WS and oh boy, does he ever get it! Who in their right mind, WOULDN'T want someone hanging on to our every word, telling us how wonderful we are, ripping our clothes off, making us laugh and feel like the most precious and cherished person in the world as we multi-orgasm with some new flesh? I mean, really! I am not dense. Who wouldn't want to again experience those heady hormonal rushes, feeling more alive, like a teenager again? I am taking the morality out of this equation because I, better than anyone, do know the pain it causes. But my inner child, the one who was always such a good girl, the straight-A student; the one who always believed you do right and you will be rewarded; is having one helluva a tantrum that shouts: I want that too! Now the adult answers: Only with my spouse. So is it jealousy? Resentment? He got to have that (at GREAT, GREAT COST) and I did not? And I think that is a normal, human, emotion in the aftermath of an affair. Great post Spark. I am a FBS turned WS. Not only was I a broken person to begin with (past traumatic childhood experience) but I had been cheated on and gaslighted to the 10th degree by my H. When I started getting THAT attention from XOM, all morality flew right out the window. I still have so much to work on with myself. I am well aware of my actions and what type of person I have become but I need to use these tools to help better myself to not be broken and to heal. With or without my H. But I have to agree with the other posts cheating is cheating no matter how you try to spin it.
seren Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I agree Spark, the me, me, me person might think oh for the days of single sex!! No strings, no distractions, the getting ready, the anticipation etc etc. These things aren't missing in a marriage, but they can get buried in the day to day, by husband's as well as wives. Complacenecy isn't just the fault of the BS. But, to the original question. I would wonder what would happen to the self esteem of someone who cheated just to get even, or the future of a relationship where differences are solved by tit for tat actions. I can understand the loss of self esteem a BS feels after D Day and the possible attraction and bolster to the self to have an A and just be themselves without the hurt and baggage an A often drags along into a marriage. Personally, it wouldn't work for me. I remember H saying that he would understand if I wanted to have an A, after his D Day. Why? so that you don't feel so guilty? So that it puts us both on level pegging re the breaking of our vows? and how would he feel knowing I had been with another man, he said absolutely destroyed. Hmm, I also said that I didn't need his permission to have an A, but my own, and frankly I would never, ever give myself permission to hurt another by enabling an A, it would hurt me more. A revenge A is, IMO, cold, but I understand the need for self validation, but it is still an A. For anyone who says you don't know what will happen in the future and might have an A. I am not blind to other men, I can look and appreciate, and have had opportunities had I chose to take them. But, not my thing at all. If I wanted that, I would leave.
StoneCold Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 But I do know that if I did, it wouldn't be to "get back at" my H for what he did. ok... What would you call an affair that comes about because you can't be judged harshly by a person that's already done it on you' date=' but you still don't want to get caught or throw it in their faces?[/quote'] I would call it an affair....a favourable positioned affair but an affair nonetheless Mostly discussion. Trying to categorize it because its something that many of my GFs and I talk about. Its very strange to love a man and decide you can cheat on him because he's done it to you' date=' but it not be about revenge but about in love again like he did for a moment and wanting something/one different.[/quote'] Why waste time trying to categorize it? it is what it is... I would be putting my effort into making sure I'm ready to do it....whatever "it" is to you. Lastly. Do you believe that you can be in love with more than one person?
Fog Light Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 What Kind of Affair Would This Be? Same as the rest... Sad.
ladydesigner Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I agree Spark, the me, me, me person might think oh for the days of single sex!! No strings, no distractions, the getting ready, the anticipation etc etc. These things aren't missing in a marriage, but they can get buried in the day to day, by husband's as well as wives. Complacenecy isn't just the fault of the BS. But, to the original question. I would wonder what would happen to the self esteem of someone who cheated just to get even, or the future of a relationship where differences are solved by tit for tat actions. I can understand the loss of self esteem a BS feels after D Day and the possible attraction and bolster to the self to have an A and just be themselves without the hurt and baggage an A often drags along into a marriage. Personally, it wouldn't work for me. I remember H saying that he would understand if I wanted to have an A, after his D Day. Why? so that you don't feel so guilty? So that it puts us both on level pegging re the breaking of our vows? and how would he feel knowing I had been with another man, he said absolutely destroyed. Hmm, I also said that I didn't need his permission to have an A, but my own, and frankly I would never, ever give myself permission to hurt another by enabling an A, it would hurt me more. A revenge A is, IMO, cold, but I understand the need for self validation, but it is still an A. For anyone who says you don't know what will happen in the future and might have an A. I am not blind to other men, I can look and appreciate, and have had opportunities had I chose to take them. But, not my thing at all. If I wanted that, I would leave. This is a good question and I will answer this honestly since I had a revenge affair. My self-esteem was destroyed when I discovered my H's A. When I had my RA I have to say I did not feel all too bad. My self-esteem was bolsered by the fact that my XOM fell for me. It wasn't until XOM ended the A that my self-esteem took a double hit. Now more than two years out, and I am still married, I can now say that my self-esteem has been affected by the RA. I cannot believe I did it. It was like a crime of passion, not to excuse it, but I was so angry I really did not care at the time what my RA would do. It is not good. Like I've said in the past, I have to do a lot of self-introspection and find out why I did not have any impulse control or control over my emotions at the time of my H's A.
xpaperxcutx Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Would applying a better name to an " affair" justify it? If rape isn't " rape" but " involuntary sexual intercourse" does that justify the actions of it being committed?
ladydesigner Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Would applying a better name to an " affair" justify it? If rape isn't " rape" but " involuntary sexual intercourse" does that justify the actions of it being committed? I don't think anything justifies an affair, any way you label it.
StoneCold Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I don't think anything justifies an affair, any way you label it. Whether an affair is justified or not is really a matter of opinion...and opinions vary. ...here we go
ladydesigner Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Whether an affair is justified or not is really a matter of opinion...and opinions vary. ...here we go I completely understand this point of view. StoneCold I am the one who had the affair! I don't feel too good about it now. It did feel justified at the time I did it, but now... not so sure. I do feel like I lost integrity.
StoneCold Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I completely understand this point of view. StoneCold I am the one who had the affair! I don't feel too good about it now. It did feel justified at the time I did it, but now... not so sure. I do feel like I lost integrity. fair enough I also meant to add that not only do opinions vary but they change (and sometimes not). I guess in your case it changed
wheelwright Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 oh we can dress it up in all sorts of different titles. Manure. Organic fertilizer. Cow-poo. Horses**t. plant-food. fragrant mulch. it really doesn't matter what you call it, it's still the same thing. ...What...? Opening your legs and being willing to be phukked by any other person other than your SO - is cheating. 'Categorising' simply makes excuses and justifies it in your own mind. Trying to categorise the action is simply a means of lifting the guilt. Dream on.... I really don't see how it complicates things at all. being cheated on doesn't give you carte-blanche or justification to cheat. Cheating is cheating. Whatever the underlying situation, it's a personal and deliberate choice. One action doesn't cancel the other out, and neither does it 'pay it back ' and "let's call it evens". It's a brand-new, all-encompassing, deliberate action of cheating. No, not childish. Just very dangerous, and really extremely blinkered if you and your friends honestly believe cheating is a suitable tit-for-tat, 'he did it to me, so it's excusable' option. It isn't. It's sordid, hurtful, and utterly destructive. Or it might actually be cathartic. Sometimes catharsis happens in a destructive way. Sometimes cheating is cathartic because it allows love, or allows a soul to move beyond its current chains. Sordid feels sordid while you do it. Sometimes A sex isn't like that. Sometimes people should explore themselves without feeling what they they desire is dirty or wrong. Philosophers (who don't cite religion) are yet to come up with 'the right way.' And maybe you are wrong? I think good people always think they may be wrong.
Spark1111 Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Or it might actually be cathartic. Sometimes catharsis happens in a destructive way. Sometimes cheating is cathartic because it allows love, or allows a soul to move beyond its current chains. Sordid feels sordid while you do it. Sometimes A sex isn't like that. Sometimes people should explore themselves without feeling what they they desire is dirty or wrong. Philosophers (who don't cite religion) are yet to come up with 'the right way.' And maybe you are wrong? I think good people always think they may be wrong. So, WW, how does a soul move beyond its current chains, if love in the form of an AP arrive on a white steed? How does one rescue oneself? Why wait for the next knight in shining armor to arrive?
woinlove Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I didn't understand your point either, WW. How does lying and deceiving help one's soul? I can understand that a love affair might move one's soul, but I don't understand the cheating and lying part as being helpful. Could you explain that further?
Author NoIDidn't Posted February 18, 2011 Author Posted February 18, 2011 Sorry, I've been away. Thanks for all the opinions shared. I really want to talk about the fact of a former BS cheating on a former WS. How people feel about those affairs, not so much get stuck on the fact that no affair is necessarily justified. I don't think that I agree that affairs are never justified....per se. I don't think they are right, but depending on the person and the reasons, they could be justified. Just that people won't agree with the justification. I don't think the comment about rape was fair or even related. People CHOOSE to cheat, no one chooses to be raped. I should know. That's like comparing apples to train tracks. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not asking anyone to justify it. I just want to discuss it. I can't imagine feeling bad for the guy that cheated getting cheated on. When I found out that infidelity was the reason my stepmom left, I wasn't surprised. She put up with cheating for years from my dad. I could understand her stepping out on her own one day. And she did. I know of no one that feels sorry for my dad. It might not be right to some, but what goes around comes around. With regards to a former BS knowing the pain, an assumption is being made. The assumption that the former BS is going to sleep with someone else's H. That doesn't have to be the case at all. And thanks, Spark for that name. The "Resentment" affair. I think many affairs are borne from resentment. Definitely not a healthy marriage maker or marker. I appreciate the replies so far.
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