AVR1962 Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 This has been a problem in my 18 year marriage. I realy like hand holding, cuddling, quick pecks without sex being connected to it. My husband has a hard time showing affection without following it up with something about sex....comment, or touching my skin. So I just stopped for a long long time, just backed away. The other night he wanted sex but I could not because I had an appt the next day and it woudl have messed the test up and I let him know. So he's getting all cuddling with me but that means touching my breats and having his hands on my butt under my pjs. If I say something to him he gets affended, saying he's trying and then just gets mad and is completely none touch at all. Anyone have a suggestion on how to get what we each want here?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 This has been a problem in my 18 year marriage. I realy like hand holding, cuddling, quick pecks without sex being connected to it. My husband has a hard time showing affection without following it up with something about sex....comment, or touching my skin. So I just stopped for a long long time, just backed away. The other night he wanted sex but I could not because I had an appt the next day and it woudl have messed the test up and I let him know. So he's getting all cuddling with me but that means touching my breats and having his hands on my butt under my pjs. If I say something to him he gets affended, saying he's trying and then just gets mad and is completely none touch at all. Anyone have a suggestion on how to get what we each want here? I am tired of reading these sad posts.... If this affection you desire would lead to sex 4X/day, then there is an issue and I feel sorry for you. If you are having sex 1-2X/mth, then I feel sorry for your husband. Very simply it has to do with the amount of sex you two have or do not have..... Obviously he wants it much more then you and you do not want it from what I am reading. Everytime I touch my wife, I hope it leads to sex (even in public and in front of my children):p..... Of course it does not happen, but a man can have dreams. If you are not having enough sex then yes those touches your spouse hopes will lead to something. Sounds like you have shut him out.....
giotto Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 I agree with TDP... for men who are getting little sex, any cuddling is a hope, often shattered... On the other hand, women need intimacy without sex to get into mood for sex. So, it's a bit of a catch-22 situation... G (no sex for 15 days now...)
xxoo Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 So he can only touch your butt or breasts if you are going to have sex? Why? Is that his rule, or yours? We don't have sex every day, but my H touches my butt and breasts every day. Why not?
Author AVR1962 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Posted February 15, 2011 When we were much younger and our realtionship was new it was no problem to have sex 3+ times a week. What I hate is feeling like that is all I mean to my husband is just a set a boobs and a place to leave his sperm. I do not have the desire to be with my husband when he's not been kind to me, not been supportive, and we are not getting along. Having sex is not some magic formula that's going to make all that better and make everything different. The issues remain, the problems persist. I see nothing wrong with wanting some intamacy in a marriage that is not about sex. My first husband and I had not problem with it, I don't know why it has to be an issue.
denise_xo Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) When we were much younger and our realtionship was new it was no problem to have sex 3+ times a week. What I hate is feeling like that is all I mean to my husband is just a set a boobs and a place to leave his sperm. I do not have the desire to be with my husband when he's not been kind to me, not been supportive, and we are not getting along. Having sex is not some magic formula that's going to make all that better and make everything different. The issues remain, the problems persist. I see nothing wrong with wanting some intamacy in a marriage that is not about sex. My first husband and I had not problem with it, I don't know why it has to be an issue. It sounds like your problems really go behind this particular issue. But sticking to the issue in the OP, I see where you're coming from and had the same issue when I got married to my current partner - there wasn't much in between. I really missed just cuddling, as it was an important way for me to bond emotionally. Like you, I'd had that in my previous relationship. I don't think it meant that I was only a set of boobs to him, it was just an incompatibility somehow. However, if you don't have sex regularly that makes the whole dynamics into a different cup of tea, as some other posts have suggested. Edited February 15, 2011 by denise_xo
xxoo Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 When we were much younger and our realtionship was new it was no problem to have sex 3+ times a week. What I hate is feeling like that is all I mean to my husband is just a set a boobs and a place to leave his sperm. I do not have the desire to be with my husband when he's not been kind to me, not been supportive, and we are not getting along. Having sex is not some magic formula that's going to make all that better and make everything different. The issues remain, the problems persist. I see nothing wrong with wanting some intamacy in a marriage that is not about sex. My first husband and I had not problem with it, I don't know why it has to be an issue. AVR, you've posted a few threads about your struggles with intimacy in the marriage. I find myself imagining your husband's pov, mostly because he can't be ALL bad if you are still having sex with him and wanting to hold hands and cuddle. It is unrealistic to expect intimacy in a relationship absent sex. It is unrealistic to expect sex in a relationship absent intimacy. It seems that, maybe at this point, you are hoping for the former and your H would prefer the latter? That you are avoiding sex as much as he is avoiding intimacy? How is your response to his roaming hands affecting his willingness to cuddle and snuggle? In my relationship, there is no clear division of sexual/non-sexual cuddling. Hands roam. Nobody cringes or panics, and nobody assumes it means sex is imminent. If you've established that sex is not happening, why is it objectionable for him to still enjoy touching your curves? How will it "lead to sex", unless you change your mind and agree to sex? Can you "retrain" your mind to accept his caresses as appreciation for your beauty, and not pressure for sex?
carhill Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 I do not have the desire to be with my husband when he's not been kind to me, not been supportive, and we are not getting along. If that isn't an advertisement for MC, I don't know what is. Working on the intimacy part *together* can lead to a more productive and mutually satisfying sex life. If you sincerely wish to have an intimate and asexual interpersonal relationship, I'm sad to report that potential partners for that realm are severely limited. Men marry women for companionship and sexual intimacy. This allows them safe, consistent space to share parts of themselves they share with no others. It, both companionship and sex, are very important to a man. Otherwise, he might as well be single and enjoying his life without the obligations, physical, emotional and financial, which come with marriage. Any children here?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 If that isn't an advertisement for MC, I don't know what is. Working on the intimacy part *together* can lead to a more productive and mutually satisfying sex life. If you sincerely wish to have an intimate and asexual interpersonal relationship, I'm sad to report that potential partners for that realm are severely limited. Men marry women for companionship and sexual intimacy. This allows them safe, consistent space to share parts of themselves they share with no others. It, both companionship and sex, are very important to a man. Otherwise, he might as well be single and enjoying his life without the obligations, physical, emotional and financial, which come with marriage. Any children here? For again putting into words what many of us think. Again I do not follow many people, but will recognize some names.... So here we have someone 49 (1962), on her second marriage, who has been together since she was in her 20's, who does not understand at all what most males want from a marriage. Frankly I do not want to find other posts from AVR1962, to know I find her gripes old, tired and very offensive.
hoping2heal Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 This has been a problem in my 18 year marriage. I realy like hand holding, cuddling, quick pecks without sex being connected to it. My husband has a hard time showing affection without following it up with something about sex....comment, or touching my skin. So I just stopped for a long long time, just backed away. The other night he wanted sex but I could not because I had an appt the next day and it woudl have messed the test up and I let him know. So he's getting all cuddling with me but that means touching my breats and having his hands on my butt under my pjs. If I say something to him he gets affended, saying he's trying and then just gets mad and is completely none touch at all. Anyone have a suggestion on how to get what we each want here? Have you told your husband very plainly what you have told us here ? Not in so many words, or subtly but come right out and said Honey, this is what I like and what I want and because I feel pressured to have sex attatched to these things, I just withdraw? Do you enjoy having sex with your husband?
LittleTiger Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 AVR, you've posted a few threads about your struggles with intimacy in the marriage. I find myself imagining your husband's pov, mostly because he can't be ALL bad if you are still having sex with him and wanting to hold hands and cuddle. It is unrealistic to expect intimacy in a relationship absent sex. It is unrealistic to expect sex in a relationship absent intimacy. It seems that, maybe at this point, you are hoping for the former and your H would prefer the latter? That you are avoiding sex as much as he is avoiding intimacy? How is your response to his roaming hands affecting his willingness to cuddle and snuggle? In my relationship, there is no clear division of sexual/non-sexual cuddling. Hands roam. Nobody cringes or panics, and nobody assumes it means sex is imminent. If you've established that sex is not happening, why is it objectionable for him to still enjoy touching your curves? How will it "lead to sex", unless you change your mind and agree to sex? Can you "retrain" your mind to accept his caresses as appreciation for your beauty, and not pressure for sex? I've quoted xxoo because I agree with everything she says here and I would ask all the same questions. In my own relationship we kiss and cuddle numerous times during the day, with 'roaming hands' being very much the 'norm'. However, there is certainly no expectation of sex just because the cuddling involves intimate or mildly sexual contact. Sometimes sex follows, other times it doesn't - it depends on the situation, the mood, available time etc. I love it that he can't keep his hands off me. If you feel that he loves you but that he is treating you as a 'set of boobs' and a 'place for his sperm', have you considered that this may be how he likes to show his love? Many men believe that showing their desire and lust for you is the same as showing you their love - which is why they often laugh at using the phrase 'making love' instead of 'having sex'. Some men really cannot comprehend the difference. Carhill is spot on when he says that it's rare to find a man who will marry without the expectation of regular sex, though many women seem to find that a desirable situation. In my opinion, its fairly easy to keep a man happy by making sure that he gets as much sleep as he needs, as much food as he needs and a lot more sex than he can handle. Very simplistic of course but basically true. I wonder if your husband was getting all the sex that he wanted would you then feel happy allowing him to 'grope' you without feeling pressured into something more? If you allowed him to touch you more sexually on a regular basis without the expecation of sex, would that satisfy you with regards to intimacy?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 as not only the men have turned against her, so have the women responding to this post. This is such an old tired thread that we have seen umpteen times before...... Men pigs, all they want is to grope, watch porn and have sex...... Sorry if I am getting bitc$# I am further along in days then Giotto;).... But really due to spouse having some health issues (so at least there is a valid excuse, outside she finds sex and me icky;))......
mitchell Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 My wife pulled this last night. No sex in the past 2 weeks. We're each freshly showered and climbing into bed when she announces "Let's cuddle." This is her code for we can snuggle but not have sex. Um, no thanks, I don't need that frustration. We have plenty of non-sexual contact during the day. I'm anticipating sex in this situation, and I'm pretty disappointed when I'm just cut off. A previous poster said it best when she acknowledged that for many men, sex is our best form of intimacy. Making love is how we show affection. It's much more to us than cuddling.
giotto Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 The trick is, as always, to find the right balance. If a man is starved of sex, I think it's pretty unreasonable to ask him to be just intimate. On the other hand, a man who only wants sex and avoids intimacy - gives nothing in return -will eventually push his spouse away. It's matter of giving and taking in equal measures... when the balance is upset, the marriage is in danger.
Spark1111 Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 The trick is, as always, to find the right balance. If a man is starved of sex, I think it's pretty unreasonable to ask him to be just intimate. On the other hand, a man who only wants sex and avoids intimacy - gives nothing in return -will eventually push his spouse away. It's matter of giving and taking in equal measures... when the balance is upset, the marriage is in danger. Bravo Giotto, Bravo! AVR's H sounds like he really has intimacy problems. He has a hard time emotionally connecting to AVR...if that does happen for too long, I understand how AVR can feel like a piece of meat. If the ONLY time a man is tender, listening, and giving you his undivided attention is when he wants sex...yeah, that will become unfulfilling to many women.
betterdeal Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I had a relationship in which I was demanding sex whilst being emotionally indifferent to my girlfriend. It hurt her a lot and, eventually, I dumped her. From my perspective, I was emotionally under-developed at that time and didn't know how to acknowledge and express myself well. I was unable to deal with negatives appropriately, and always felt that people liked me for being a happy, spontaneous guy all of the time. The trouble with that is, we aren't happy all of the time. Some things do annoy us. Now that I know ways to tackle those things constructively and with words and actions, I'm in a much better position to maintain a functional relationship. Your husband and you sound like you're in a negative feedback cycle - he expresses his feelings via sex and you feel unsatisfied, emotionally by this, and without emotional satisfaction you don't like sex. This to him means he can't express his emotions, and that makes him frustrated, and so he becomes more emotionally distant, less affectionate, more sexual. I think you need to talk to your husband and tell him you feel there is a very real problem between you and that you'd like to explore ways to fix it. Some couples use counselling. Others try having a "first date" whereby you sit at a bar and he approaches you as though you are strangers meeting for the first time, and he woes you. You can bargain with him about this. You'll do the first date thing if you can both sit down and work to resolve something else, something practical - say the bills - that's worrying you in the day time, and agree to the first date thing in the evening if you manage to do this practical thing in the day time. Note it is a date, and (let him know this) as such there's no guarantee of sex or even a kiss, but it might be fun and the chances are you'll see in each other what you saw to begin with. Note you both have to enter into the agreement with good intentions. Don't agree to it if you don't feel good about it.
giotto Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 At the beginning of the relationship, when the sex is frequent, men are always gratified and have no problem in giving intimacy in return. They are getting their form of intimacy. When sex gets less frequent after a few years (or months!), and when kids come, men struggle to adjust and maybe tend to withdraw intimacy, because they are not getting theirs. They are also replaced emotionally by the presence of the children. I had a real problem with this. I failed to adjust, but my wife wasn't communicative of her needs, so I didn't know what was going on. I suppose I was emotionally immature too. Unfortunately, things never got better... now I know, but I think it's too late.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 it is always the same and you continue to beat yourself up Giotto.... Your spouse knows that more sex would result in a much better relationship in a number of ways, yet she just doesn't want to acknowledge or do anything about it. Every marriage has ups and downs, and so many times all you need is some intimacy to make things better. Frankly I don't want AVR1962 to respond because it will be the old excuses over and over. How about some sex and discuss your issues in the afterglow and see what a difference it makes.
xxoo Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I see nothing wrong with wanting some intamacy in a marriage that is not about sex. My first husband and I had not problem with it, I don't know why it has to be an issue. AVR, it sounds like your husband was trying to give you intimacy that was not about sex, and you pushed him away because he touched the wrong parts of your body. It is possible he doesn't even understand the distinction, and just hears "don't touch me!" No surprise that, over the years, he's stopped touching you. It is normal for partners to touch their partners in intimate ways. It is what makes a hug with you different from a hug with his daughter, or his mother. It is abnormal to expect all hands to stay in G-rated places when you are cuddling up to your lover. Your first husband had his eyes--and his hands--on other women. The way he treated you was likely not reflective of the way a typical man wants to hold his one and only lover.
giotto Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Your spouse knows that more sex would result in a much better relationship in a number of ways, yet she just doesn't want to acknowledge or do anything about it. well, it boils down to this, really, but since she doesn't seem to care that much, I need to vent from time to time or find "excuses"... I must say LS is a great venting place for me... it keeps me sane and has helped me understand a lot about my relationship with my wife. Since I'm stuck (my own decision), maybe I should stop posting about it. I'm pretty sure it gets tiresome for you all...
LittleTiger Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) well, it boils down to this, really, but since she doesn't seem to care that much, I need to vent from time to time or find "excuses"... I must say LS is a great venting place for me... it keeps me sane and has helped me understand a lot about my relationship with my wife. Since I'm stuck (my own decision), maybe I should stop posting about it. I'm pretty sure it gets tiresome for you all... I think you should keep venting and keep posting giotto. The regular posters may be the ones who make the most 'noise' but we aren't the only ones who are reading. Just as LS has helped you understand about your relationship, your story and your 'vents' will be helping others who never have the courage to post for themselves. Besides which, one day something will happen in your life and things will change dramatically and that's when it's going to get really interesting. Edited February 17, 2011 by LittleTiger
giotto Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I think you should keep venting and keep posting giotto. The regular posters may be the ones who make the most 'noise' but we aren't the only ones who are reading. Just as LS has helped you understand about your relationship, your story and your 'vents' will be helping others who never have the courage to post for themselves. Besides which, one day something will happen in your life and things will change dramatically and that's when it's going to get really interesting. well, maybe, but even whinging is tiring... Sorry, when things don't go quite right, all the negativity comes out and I find it difficult not to drown in it. It's just a very bad place to be in and I hate it.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 well, maybe, but even whinging is tiring... Sorry, when things don't go quite right, all the negativity comes out and I find it difficult not to drown in it. It's just a very bad place to be in and I hate it. that is why I too find LS comforting and a place I can share my issues and vent....
frozensprouts Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 AVR 1962, I can understand where you are coming from, but I can also tell you that it an unfair situation to both of you. Went through something similar with my own husband. For quite a long time, due to health issues with our kids and myself, when the end of the day came I was absolutely exhausted and the idea of sex seemed like something I just couldn't do. This was in no way a reflection of anything my husband did wrong at all or a rejection of him, rather I was just to tired and emotionally drained ( seeing my kids hurting the way they were just about killed me inside). Problem was, I didn't tell my husband how I felt- I just kind of assumed he would know. But he didn't, and he he felt like I was rejecting him and didn't care, which wasn't true at all. This was a big part of our problems, but once we talked about it and we both understood how the other felt, it helped a lot. He understood that sometimes I really was so tired and sad that being held by him was what would be really nice. I understood that , to him, sex was a way of being close together and not just " a way to make himself feel good" and that helped a lot. Things are much better now- we cuddle a lot, which is really nice, and we have sex a lot, which is also really nice, and we are both happier for it.
carhill Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 OP, since your H may/appeart to be an alcoholic, perhaps that is a good place to start the process of healing the M or ending it. How does his drinking factor into the dynamic shared in your OP here? Any patterns?
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