Stateandbroadway Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 At first I was going to agree with the affair down theory. But then I realized that what might be "down" for me, may look different from the perspective of the other person. My last boyfriend before my husband was soap opera good looking, super successful, ivy league educated, and a generally nice person. I was very in love with him at one time. My husband is probably not as perfect looking as him. My husband was certainly not successful when we first met and he isnt as grearious and likeable as my ex-boyfriend. With all that said I am MUCH MORE attracted to my husband, connnect with my husband more, and find him much sexier. Some times the things you like in people are intangible. Chemistry.
neveragain1 Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I posted this in another area, but thought I'd see what people on this forum have to say. I have read on several other websites that in general, when people cheat they tend to "affair down". yes, they always affair down, character-wise anyway.
pureinheart Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 When my fWS put the same effort into our R. to have fun, to talk, to confide, to date me, to woo me, to laugh with me.....he was amazed how compatible we were....how much fun we had, how great it was to be together. He had grown compacent, stopped seeing me, stopped enjoying me waaaay before he ever crashed into her. You can't be the only person working in a marriage. It takes two! I am very glad his vision improved:D Yes, it always takes two. When I first met "him", and we began to talk, I suggested taking her flowers and going out to dinner. he was not open to these things. The M was done long before it even started. I can understand now with knowing him better, the only thing they had in common was the kids. I was frustrated at first, feeling that he rejected my suggestions, like he wasn't hearing me...fact was I wasn't hearing him. That is such a good thing that your M is doing good, you two are best friends first it sounds like...to me that is important, the "love" stuff is good but being best friends is hard in a M! (((((((((((Spark))))))))))) may there be many happily M days for you!
seren Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 I'm uncomfortable with this topic because by saying you affair up or down you're implying someone is better or worse than you are. I'm sorry but I can't do that to any degree. I understand the premise but what's wrong with someone who hasn't been to college or someone who may weigh 30 lbs more than someone? Why am I better because I make more money or because I stay at home with the kids? No one is better. No one is worse. I had some horrific things happen to me in my adult life and I turned away from who I was. I became someone different so I could escape what happened to me. When I coped with what I went through I found myself again and I left that other person behind. I wasn't worse than anyone else and now that I'm better I'm not better than anyone else. I would hate for someone to make a judgement of me based on that 8 month period. At least not one that was going to stick. I so agree with your post Summer, unfortunately, in my case, the OW thought there was some competition and did try to convince my H that I was having an A, would take care of him better - so in her mind, looking after H by being home, cleaning and cooking his meals etc meant that to her, she had more to offer and so would, in retrospect, be saying look at me, I am better for you, I can take care of you better than Seren. I am the better option, which to her, would mean H had affaired up because he would have someone who cared for him. Oh to have had the time from work to do all this. For H, he thinks he affaired down, it isn't said, but he does make disparaging remarks about the OW and no, I don't encourage or even like it and do call him out on it. It has more to do with her actions since D Day and peversely, the fact that she was married and had multiple A's. Doesn't make any sense to me TBH, sort of double standards all around. But, he knows that I have a pretty rigid set of morals about not doing harm and has admitted that he admires and envies that, so morally, he would say that my morals are higher and as this is something he admires muchly in me, would say that OW was an affair down. I don't agree with any of it, I think we all have value and that we all make mistakes which don't define who we are, to do so would mean that the A is the definitive of that person, which I don't believe it is, otherwise why would I be with H? The looks, money, position are not, IMO, a measure of a person's worth, so no argument there with the whole up or down debate. Everyone measures their worth by their definition of what is desirable for them to be, so it is almost inevitable that some sort of comparison is made, wether we want acknowledge it or not. I would have liked to be as domestically able as the OW she to be as succesfull professionaly as me, doesn't make either of us better than the other, but her actions afterwards, well she sure was a peice of work. Now that, I do judge and yes, she is found wanting in that respect.
Stateandbroadway Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 Does that mean that people who have had affairs were raised by amoral parents who condoned or encouraged affairs? Were all people who do drugs raised by drug loving parents? while how you are raised my affect you, surely other factors impact the way you feel, the decisions you make and your behavior.
Spices Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) In some cases yes, in some cases no. You can look at some celebrity examples (yes I'm using these as examples because they went public & most people were aware of them). Take Tiger Woods for instance; all of his mistresses held absolutely no candle to his wife Elin. She was more beautiful, intelligent, classy, and presentable than any of the other woman he was with. Yet, still he obviously wasn't emotionally fulfilled & definitely had ego complex to go with it. Then you can look at other examples like Jennifer Aniston, Brad Pitt, and Angelina Jolie. In this case the man actually left his wife for the other woman. Although we all hate to admit it, Jennifer Aniston simply couldn't compete with Angelina when it came to status, beauty, career, and acting skills. Although, at the same time I believe Jennifer was certainly a sweeter person in general, & most likely more ethically & emotionally healthy than Angelina (lets face it, the woman is extraordinary, but a complete nut with more than a few problems). So, I suppose in a way you could say Brad was doing the "affair down" thing as far as emotional stability is concerned; though I certainly wouldn't call one woman better than the other. Edited February 19, 2011 by Spices
seren Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 Does that mean that people who have had affairs were raised by amoral parents who condoned or encouraged affairs? Were all people who do drugs raised by drug loving parents? while how you are raised my affect you, surely other factors impact the way you feel, the decisions you make and your behavior. The influences of nurturing cannot be denied and will have an influence, sometimes people learn coping mechanisms by obseriving family, sometimes people observe and determine to not be the same. So, it isn't always that because the parents do it the child will do it too, it might have the opposite effect and see the child be determined to not take on board their parents values or coping strategies. My morals are based on the way I was brought up, the underlying message being do not harm others, especially for your own ends. I like this premise, it fits into my beliefs and what I have learnt, after all I have to be OK with me before anyone else. No one judges us more than we judge ourselves, and for me, hurting someone else just isn't in my mindset. I once worked with a woman who had multiple personality disorder, due largely to her childhood abuse experiences, she coped by cutting and burning herself very badly, her daughter, who had not experienced the same as her mother, coped in times of difficulty by cutting her arms. To her, this was how someone coped when they felt powerless. Not all behaviour is because of childhood influences, but it is the foundation to who we are, what we take out of our experiences is up to us, we either carry on with them or we resolve to not make the same mistakes as our parents.
Stateandbroadway Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 I suspect most would say I affaired down MAJORLY. Firstly I love my husband and at when things were normal....which they are returning to, we have fun together and truly enjoy spending time together. When I had my affair however, I felt such intense resentment and hurt, *that I seriously considered that if it continued, I might grow to seriously dislike him. He had gone so off the deep end emotionally and with the way heqas treating me that I wondered if I married a freaking sociopath. Anyway, he has an MBA and a high powered white collar job. *He is considered handsome by many. *He's a former college athlete and remains in excellent shape. *I find him sexy, very well endowed and good in bed. *He looks like a more rugged Josh Lucas. *He is likeable and people are attracted to his personality. Other man: *About 30 pounds overweight, most of it setteling in the midsection. *He was self concious about his body. *In fact he kept his shirt on during sex because he was embarrased. He didnt go to college and had a lackluster sales job that he was not doing well at. He had a mountain of debt and serious financial issues. *He was a bit sheltered and had not really experienced much. * He is the kind of guy that I definetly could not see spending my life with and being fulfilled by for any extended period of time. *In fact I have never dated anyone remotely like him. So what drew me to an affair with him? In truth, it wasnt him, it probably could have been anyone. It was the emotional aspect of the relationship that kept drawing me in. He had empathy and became an emotional lifeline during an incredibly trying time. He was caring. **My husband and I were going through ALOT. Lets just say my husband has negative empathy. *** My husbands reaction to the stress was to turn the volume WAY up on his cockiness and criticism and remain his normal zero empathy self. I sustained two years of verbal and emotional abuse, while our lives were falling apart. The outside stressors were so intense and I knew they were the root cause of his breakdown. *For two years I talked and tried to get him to listen. I tried. I begged to go to counseling. But at the same time I was under the same stress and pain as him. I was so depressed i tried anti-depressants...and i hate pills. *but my depression was situational not chemical. ** Enter Mr. Shoulder to cry on stage left. Although for me he is not marriage material, he is good friend material and i found the connection intoxicating. ** Oh did I mention my husband and i hadnt slept together in 1 year....due to the crazy stress, resentment and anger. It wasnt about getting my rocks off. *He didnt even live in the same city. *If it was about sex I would have have been with someone in the same city. *It was the emotional/intimate connection and outlet. *It was intangible and could come have come from a frog or prince.
Stateandbroadway Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 Oh i forgot to add the reason i didnt just leave...as many might say, is because i want to be with my husband and love him. And to leave would have meant taking our young son, which would have literally killed him Also i found it difficult to leave him alone while his life/ our life was crumbling due to his mistakes. but at the same time his mistakes had caused me great pain. i think he was so mad at himself that he turned his anger at himself and directed it at me. well thats pretty much what he said in our last session. He finally said that yes i was trying to comfort him, but that he didnt want to hear it, he was numb because of the pain. it was so great. A brekthrough for us. We cried and hugged after we left that session like we havent in 3 years. I love our therapist. wooohoooo.
Stateandbroadway Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 yes you are right. My husband comes from what many probably describe as the perfect family. but after years of really looking at them, i realize they are more placid than ,y family and buttoned up for. his family is very black and white. and how this has resonated within my husband is a lack of empathy and self centeredness. and whats funny is that all five of the kids are very different. so it alsi depends on the pare ts, enviornnment and how that particular person proccesses the experience. If you look at most serial killers- they come from backgrounds where there was some type of abuse. Most kids who are abused dont become serial killers though. So there are other factors and ingredients both within a personand their enviornment that affect their behavior. I think more it's those ingredients coming together in just the perfect way. at the perfect time. Human behavior is both easy to explain and complicated...
Steadfast Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) From what I have learned, a person cheats to replace something missing within them, not their spouse. So to make the comparison between lover and spouse is a non sequitur. I suppose the reasons and types are as different as the people involved, but in my case what the ex-wife 'felt' follows what's written above. Her confession seemed to indicate that. I never met any of these men. There was three, total (I think). When she first confessed, she kept repeating that I wasn't being 'replaced'. At the time I was sure she was trying to let me down easy, but now I know differently. She truly didn't want to lose the comfort and security that I offered her, nor (total) contact with our kids, although as it has turned out, that's been pretty limited. What she couldn't deny was that I was being replaced as her lover. That hurts. Best I can tell, she sought a variety of things missing from her life. Freedom, flirty, fun 'high school' type romance and drama, and a certain amount of control. Her first affair partner was much younger than her (and she's much younger than me) which, by her own account awakened strong urges of lust in her. She liked the hunt, the conquest...even the drama of him pulling away at the end. Then, it was back to seeing if her sex appeal was still strong by luring in another. All the while, still needing money, food, a hot shower, clean clothes and a reliable car. That was where I came in. Like a daddy. No good. I know little about the social standing of these men, and the very few descriptions or glimpses I have had of them showed me nothing truly remarkable. In fact, my ex has repeatedly said she considers me the most intelligent, most interesting man she has ever known. I have her 'deepest respect' as well. Even now, three year past she strongly wishes to keep our ties. She expresses fear in losing me. She also has expressed anger/bitterness about the women I date. I do not understand that. But I do understand that she is not in love or sexually attracted to me. When it's all shaken down, does it really matter to the betrayed if the ex traded up or down? Seems to me one's self esteem suffers regardless. Besides, what difference does looks, money or power make (or, the complete absence of each) when you're slimy enough to sleep with someone else's spouse? That perhaps, is the true 'trading down' people speak of. Think about it; who really wants a cheater long term? Not me. Edited February 19, 2011 by Steadfast
Terrier Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Ow is an admin for his boss. Wears low cut short tight fitting dresses to the office. A Texas twang that sounds like it came from an Annie Oakley movie. Big fake boobs. Big phony blond Texas hair (on a woman past 50). Little education. Thrown out by her xH for tramping fifteen years ago. I call it the fading Texas beauty queen look. Why'd he do it? It was there to be had. He says he never admitted seeing her to anyone he knows, and is embarrassed by how low he went.
OWoman Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 From what I have learned, a person cheats to replace something missing within them Yep - what was missing from my H during his A was an axe and a killer instinct. He'd have gotten off on a justifiable homicide plea... More seriously though, the A did show him what he was missing - which was why he made the choices he made. But at least he got the wake-up call before it was too late.
Author TruthSetsYouFree Posted February 21, 2011 Author Posted February 21, 2011 I agree with the points the PPs have made. There are cases of "affairing up/down", some you cannot compare nor perhaps should there be a comparison, but the main thing I agree with is that MOST people who do betray do so because of something lacking within themselves or within their primary relationship. And instead of trying to address what that missing aspect might be, they seek solace and reassurance outside of the relationship. Sometimes it's with a person with whom they feel more compatible, who they feel really "gets" them; sometimes it's simply with someone who is just there - opportunistically available at the right place, right time.
ggd4u Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 Serial cheating is about empowerment, believe it or not. And I am not sure why that is....It has to do with power and control, so I have to assume they feel powerless in life? How do you know this??? It sounds plausable - just wondering how you seem to know so much???
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