worldgonewrong Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared. I find this to be an interesting point, that if a lot of us took it to heart, it would spare us a lot of grief. I'm not saying my marriage or yours will heal completely and that there will be a joyous reunion, BUT... there's something to be said for knowing when the spouse is speaking in absolutes as a defense mechanism. To wit, a good friend of mine has a strong marriage, which at a couple times he thought it was finished because his wife adamantly declared "It's over". They worked through their problems, still doing so, but their marriage is stronger than ever. So I guess I find #32 sort of reassuring - in a real way, not a 'false hope' way. your thoughts on this one?
aimlesslee Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 That's a tough one. As someone who lived and breathed off of false hope for 6 months I find that statement dangerous. I choose to believe that my H spoke in negatives because he saw our marriage as a negative. I'd hate for people to think that they can ignore the negative talk because once the pain and fear is over their spouse will come back. Guess that's why they say actions speak louder than words. I'm not saying that reconciliations don't happen, that hope would just do me more harm than good right now.
Author worldgonewrong Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 That's a tough one. As someone who lived and breathed off of false hope for 6 months I find that statement dangerous. I choose to believe that my H spoke in negatives because he saw our marriage as a negative. I'd hate for people to think that they can ignore the negative talk because once the pain and fear is over their spouse will come back. Guess that's why they say actions speak louder than words. I'm not saying that reconciliations don't happen, that hope would just do me more harm than good right now. True, very true. I guess I hadn't considered the depth of people living in false hope. I've been separated for 3 weeks (this is week 4), and any hope I have is merely a sliver of an abstraction -- e.g. I would LIKE to win the lottery, but I will not hold my breath waiting for it to realistically happen.
What_Next Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 If I had of listened to what my wife was telling me when she was in her fog we'd NOT be together now. If she had of listened to me when I moved out and was in my fog then we'd NOT be together now. I know that for sure. I suppose the point here is to stay the course, if you let your SO drag you into the headspace they are in then it is a self fufilling prophecy. If you are doing your best to maintain a positive attitude, then do so, for yourself. Of course you need to realize that if the writing is indeed on the wall then sometimes it is indeed done. Things complicate when one side of the marriage is in affair fog. Like all aspects of the 180 nothing is an absolute.
Author worldgonewrong Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 if you let your SO drag you into the headspace they are in then it is a self fufilling prophecy. Spot on. You've chosen the SO's direction rather than carving out a new one for yourself, if you go down that path.
robf1971 Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I agree, my W was admanant we were finished, she even told everyone, family, friends etc. She would also never be attracted to me again, never want to kiss me, never go to marriage counselling blah blah. We are not out of the woods yet but 6 months later, she's still here, is very attracted to me, kisses me all the time and we are in marriage counselling at her request.
Yasuandio Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 WGW, you read my mind. I have been thinking about 32 as well. I had a hearing with my husband on financial matters last Friday. Only he needed to testify. I could not believe my eyes and ears! The judge just leaned back and observed with raised eyebrows. My attorney would just turn her back, and him go on with the show. I could only look at the carpet , I was ashamed for him. He could not answer financial questions, and as an alternative, made loud irrelivent proclomations, with arms flailing in the air. He reapeatedly referred to my attoney as MADAM. To hear him, in hostile tone, refer to me as "HER" or "HIS X", was also a new for me. He was so loud and obnoxious, and VERY angry. Later on when the judge was speaking to the attoneys he chimed in to join the convo, and the judge had to the him to be quite. I sat there feeling like a piece of trash everyone was trying to dispose of. I have heard him be ugly and nasty before, but I NEVER expected a public specticle like I saw in court. For the most part he has been civil and cooperative. He has been willing to discuss the relationship, I really believed that reconcilation was possible over time. One thing I recall during the performance, when he was about to say a negative about me that is not true (to hurt my case) he sheepishly looked at me and didn't say it. I call this a crumb. These crumbs are what I hold onto because I am scared. The behavior on the stand was that of a textbook narcissist, it's the only explaination. I was forced to witness it, because I could not step in and help him. I want to believe 32 really bad. Really, really bad.
Author worldgonewrong Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 Rob: God, I would soooo love to be where you're at right now. (OK, a moment of vulnerability and wishing revealed! Guilty! ) Did you find that the NC thing was *key* in reshaping things with your wife? Yasuandio: I had a vaguely similar experience as yours. My wife just absolutely gutted me in our 1st MC session. I guess having the courage of a therapist/authority-figure there enabled her to spew out the angriest and most hurtful stuff in her mind at the time. With a little time having passed, I can see a lot of it was just an expression of hurt. Maybe not exactly the *right* and *truthful* expression of hurt, but valid nonetheless. As for your husband running you down in front of a judge and lawyers, Jesus, that's horrible. That's a whole 'nother level of mean-spiritedness that I can't wrap my mind around. If I can offer you some encouragement, the BEST thing you can do is to start looking out for yourself. Love yourself. Respect yourself. Sometimes the other parties (wives, husbands) can be emotional vampires at times like these; don't let them suck out your soul.
carhill Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 For some people, that's who they are. I watched it in action for over a year in MC. Elemental incompatibility. Accepted
Yasuandio Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Thank you for your kind words WGW. Re: 32. In my case, it could be a recipe for continued denial unfortunately. That was only a hearing @ legal fees. Imagine the depos & trial. When someone holds all their gripes inside, and then spews them all out at once I think it's called "stamp-collecting" - an unfair way to fight (I'm OK, Your OK). She may have been rumenating on the charges for a long time, and has built up resentment thereto. Remember, that's not fair fighting. You can't be held responsible when a person doesn't bring it to your attention. Just my take. Edited February 8, 2011 by Yasuandio Rewrite sentence
robf1971 Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Rob: God, I would soooo love to be where you're at right now. (OK, a moment of vulnerability and wishing revealed! Guilty! ) Did you find that the NC thing was *key* in reshaping things with your wife? It was funny, she never left, there was never any NC. What I found worked was a mix of things (At the beginning I did all the begging and pleading crap by the way). 1. Stop reacting to her, not lose it no matter how she provoked me. 2. Listen to what rang true when she criticised me 3. These were, too much of a pleaser, passive aggressive, miserable, always leaning on her. 4. put a MASSIVE effort to change all this about me, at the same time accepting it was probably over I started to A. Stand up to her bad behaviour B. Become more decisive C. Tell her what I think, instead of passive aggressive D. Acted happy, got a life, started going out alone and enjoying. Eventually I started really feeling happy, then she wanted to come out with me , do social stuff again, we started to laugh and joke, enjoy each other company. Then she went away and really missed me and our love life came back. Then she strated showing me loads of affection in public again. She's also started saying "I love you again". I never say it to her lol. Anyway she still makes the odd snippy comment about us maybe not being together in future, but she refused counselling at the beginning. Then out of the blue a few weeks ago she said lets start. She's made comments about how "she thinks it will go well. she is talking about the future, eg moving house together, holidays getting a dog etc. I'm very aware this could all go backwards very easily but I appreciate where I've got to. It was MY changes which have been massiveand she has realised I ain't that bad. She has also made huge changes, and take my hat off to her. Maybe I was also lucky there had been no infidelity.
Steadfast Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Not to sound too negative, but I'd re-write it like this: 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is trying to justify her cheating and betrayal. I continue to feel positive about the members here who have (or are trying to) successfully reconcile. In the case of walkaway wives, I wonder if some sense of true love was rediscovered...through introspection of their true feelings, kindheartedness, or if these husbands just dealt with it better than I did. Maybe some of both. Looking back, I realize now that my ex was always mean, controlling and borderline abusive. Toss in selfish, self-centered and conceited. Just the same, she now admits (three years post) that she rewrote history to justify her actions. I simply stood between her and her desires. If she had not told me that I'd probably still believe much of what she said when she left. Now I know fully just how wise the above advice is.
debtman Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Hear, hear steadfast! My stbx has sent several emails over the past 4 months outlining exactly how horrible our entire relationship was, how unfairly I treated her, how I never made time for her, etc. They were incredible mean, intentionally hurtful and blaming everything on me. And, I just look at #32 (especially your re-write) and nod, because I can go back to emails she sent 6 months ago talking about how awesome I am, how we can work through anything, how much she loves me, etc. So, now she has to justify leaving for OM, the emotional issues the kids are dealing with, the issues she's already facing with OM, the work she is setting herself up for with her new living situation, etc. I think that, if I had followed the 180 entirely from the beginning, and hadn't moved out when she started the EA, things might be different now, but, she's too stubborn and has such low self-confidence that she will never admit she made a mistake, will never seek counseling (I asked many times) and is NOT the kind of person I want to spend the rest of my life with. Now, the OM will have to deal with the controlling, over-bearing and argumentative/mean relationship. I'm just making sure I'm as involved in my kids lives as possible, providing as stable a place for them as possible and focusing on myself. Life is good...so many opportunities. The future looks fabulous.
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