silverplanets Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Hi all, I don't often start threads and this one is perhaps a little self-indulgent BUT I kind of think it might help some people and so, for that reason alone, I will share it. For those who know me the background is obviously a long on/off A with a MW (I think it bridged 13 years at least count, although with a significant 5 year break in between when I just walked away from her for good). Then I let her back into my life and the pattern began to repeat all over again until I finally requested, told and finally forced (by informing her H in a non drama fashion every time she ignored my wishes not to contact me) her to honour my wish that I did not, and never did, wish to be in an affair. That was at least 18 months ago and since then I have just remained on my own, bringing up my child, attending counselling for a year to look at me as a person and generally coming to terms with things. So what's the point of this post? Well just that recently I suddenly realised that I really liked someone. I let them know and it turned out they already were seeing someone. I was a little sad but accepted it and am ok with it. I see them regularly and am still friends and, perhaps most importantly for me, I have taken their answer at face value and NOT taken it to heart as a rejection of me as a person (which from my childhood is something that I am prone to do). After just mulling over this for a while I decided that what it really meant was that I needed to push myself to get out there a little more, not as serious dating, but more just to perhaps learn to be comfortable with it, at worst make some new friends and generally to explore that side of life. Although I am by nature reflective, I am not lacking in "front" or "boldness" as it were, and having been through a lot of difficult situations then talking to strangers really does not scare me, so once I decided I was able to make some approaches and am now on a second date tonight, with one more on Friday night and someone who wants to spent Saturday with me. Again .. the fact I have a few dates is not the point either .. The point, if any, is that this period of NC and time alone (I've always generally gone from relationship to relationship before that) has changed me inside. In particular I became aware of a hole inside me from childhood and how this had influenced my major life choices since, and that how, for me, I was just repeating behaviours which would always sabotage me. In short - the very thing which I thought I wanted was the very thing which I always prevented myself from having ... and given enough time I have realised that this is because I was conditioned as a child to associate my being happy with causing other people's unhappiness. So I now seem to have entered a new space for me ... I am beginning to do the normal things people do but I am doing them without this destructive force inside me (well, it's still there but I am aware of it and able to let it surface and then fall away in my mind). This is an utterly new space for me in life and, to be honest, I think the time alone and time self reflecting is what has got me here. And funnily enough, the thing that finally forced me to take a good look at myself was a relationship that was ultimately so destructive to me that it forced another part of me (self presevation) to step in and halt the negative slide. Self presevation was all about saving me and perhaps was the first time I realised that there was a me to save and that me had as much right to be saved as anyone else. I wish I could explain this better and more succinctly but it's hard to do so ... I don't know if I'm fixed fully yet .. but I DO feel fundamentally re-programmed in side .. and these dates (and other things I am doing) are only "gentle" and are a chance for me to see how resilient this "reprogrammed me" is and to gain confidence in it. So far though, it's not let me down, which gives me hope. I'm still not looking for an LTR at present (nor in fact anything casual) .. and I have been honest about that ... It's just fun (and new) to go out and meet poeple in a "dating" scenario .. and, to be honest as I love people anyway, it's always fun to meet new ones. So there you go, I don't know if this helps anyone or not .... I'm not for or against A's , since everyone has to follow their own path and who am I to say what is right .... What I can see for me now though is that I spent many years subconsciously searching for something that would cause me so much pain that it would make me "wake up" inside. And for me, the A (and other things I did) eventually managed to do just that. Ok, far too long a post already ... hope someone can make some use out of it. take care everyone Chris
OWoman Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Wow, Chris, that sounds really good! And what you are role-modelling for your child is really important too!
East7 Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Thanks for sharing Chris. Well, for me I don't think the A was related to a childhood issue. I had a very normal and good childhood with a strong and loving family. I have noticed though (it was the case for myself) that A happens in a "weak moment" of your life. It was a lonely period, after the end of a LTR and financial issues, and then xMW popped out in my life giving love, attention and support...Who doesn't want that ? The problem is that when you have these weak moments you are more likely to put your standards lower and accept things that you'd not "normally" accept. At the same times xMW marriage was rocky. We entered both in a relationship where we were providing each-other the attention and support that we would normally expect to be provided from regular partners (her H and my eventual GF). The fact that she was married didn't bother me at the beginning as I was enjoying her attention without expectations, but once the feelings grew stronger like all OM/OW I wanted more than an A. That was the moment when it became painful and detrimental to me.
Hazyhead Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Chris, you sound like you're in a healthy place and that is good to read. I identify with so much that you say about the destructive force - you're an intelligent man and yet you made choices that you knew were possibly (being kind ) going to hurt. I did that same thing. Over and over. It's like I started out on a path that I felt, somehow, compelled to see it through to the bitter, bitter end. I had a secure childhood and funnily enough in IC we've explored how it might have been that very safety net that has made my self-destruction easier - I've been far too risky as I've never really seen the very harsh of life personally and I think it's caused this 'It'll be okay' attitude, as if whatever risk I took I'd come out alright, but I just dug myself deeper and deeper until there is no choice but to face the reality. I'm looking forward to proper NC, now knowing that he won't come back. I need to be on my own as I think I've compromised a lot of myself recently - like East said: lowered my standards, and I have to learn my priorities again It will be okay though. You do have to choose sanity in the end and wake up. I still am only beginning my IC journey of self-reflection. I hope I come through it as well as you have. So, what is it then? A year of being single? Sheesh.... haven't done that since I was sixteen. Scary. But good scary too, I guess. Necessary, that't for sure. Have a fantastic time on your dates. Enjoy the buzz and excitement of getting to know someone knew without all that baggage. God knows you deserve it. Hugs Hazy
Hazyhead Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Realised I made your thread all about me, sorry! You inspired me so just wanted to share and kinda ended up reflecting too much.
Hazyhead Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I just noticed your posts from a couple of weeks ago and have posted, probably quite randomly, there what I should have said here. Think I need sleep! Gonna stop hijacking now
wheelwright Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Hi all, I don't often start threads and this one is perhaps a little self-indulgent BUT I kind of think it might help some people and so, for that reason alone, I will share it. That was at least 18 months ago and since then I have just remained on my own, bringing up my child, attending counselling for a year to look at me as a person and generally coming to terms with things. So what's the point of this post? Well just that recently I suddenly realised that I really liked someone. I let them know and it turned out they already were seeing someone. I was a little sad but accepted it and am ok with it. I see them regularly and am still friends and, perhaps most importantly for me, I have taken their answer at face value and NOT taken it to heart as a rejection of me as a person (which from my childhood is something that I am prone to do). After just mulling over this for a while I decided that what it really meant was that I needed to push myself to get out there a little more. Again .. the fact I have a few dates is not the point either .. The point, if any, is that this period of NC and time alone (I've always generally gone from relationship to relationship before that) has changed me inside. In particular I became aware of a hole inside me from childhood and how this had influenced my major life choices since, and that how, for me, I was just repeating behaviours which would always sabotage me. In short - the very thing which I thought I wanted was the very thing which I always prevented myself from having ... and given enough time I have realised that this is because I was conditioned as a child to associate my being happy with causing other people's unhappiness. So I now seem to have entered a new space for me ... I am beginning to do the normal things people do but I am doing them without this destructive force inside me (well, it's still there but I am aware of it and able to let it surface and then fall away in my mind). This is an utterly new space for me in life and, to be honest, I think the time alone and time self reflecting is what has got me here. And funnily enough, the thing that finally forced me to take a good look at myself was a relationship that was ultimately so destructive to me that it forced another part of me (self presevation) to step in and halt the negative slide. Self presevation was all about saving me and perhaps was the first time I realised that there was a me to save and that me had as much right to be saved as anyone else. I wish I could explain this better and more succinctly but it's hard to do so ... take care everyone Chris It is hard when you fall in love with another - or by other terms lose yourself - to then find you again. And I agree self-presevation is the goal. When your heart is broken, you have to find a way to save yourself. And I also felt last bolded IME. Self-destruction? It takes so many forms as to be a fluid entity. It could be choosing duty over love. It could be the opposite. But I rest on my laurels in the fact that its opposite means peace, including of mind. Peace to you, including with new dates.
Author silverplanets Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 Wow, Chris, that sounds really good! And what you are role-modelling for your child is really important too! Thanks ow, I hadn't thought of it from that perspective, but you are right
Author silverplanets Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 Thanks for sharing Chris. Well, for me I don't think the A was related to a childhood issue. I had a very normal and good childhood with a strong and loving family. I have noticed though (it was the case for myself) that A happens in a "weak moment" of your life. It was a lonely period, after the end of a LTR and financial issues, and then xMW popped out in my life giving love, attention and support...Who doesn't want that ? The problem is that when you have these weak moments you are more likely to put your standards lower and accept things that you'd not "normally" accept. At the same times xMW marriage was rocky. We entered both in a relationship where we were providing each-other the attention and support that we would normally expect to be provided from regular partners (her H and my eventual GF). The fact that she was married didn't bother me at the beginning as I was enjoying her attention without expectations, but once the feelings grew stronger like all OM/OW I wanted more than an A. That was the moment when it became painful and detrimental to me. Yes E7, you are right. Who doesn't want that. It's such a seemingly innocent and innocuous thing isn't it ... C
Author silverplanets Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 Chris, you sound like you're in a healthy place and that is good to read. I identify with so much that you say about the destructive force - you're an intelligent man and yet you made choices that you knew were possibly (being kind ) going to hurt. I did that same thing. Over and over. It's like I started out on a path that I felt, somehow, compelled to see it through to the bitter, bitter end. You are right Hazy. When I finally stopped to look at it this one just one choice that hurt me in a series of choices I had made over a period of time that all hurt me in differnent ways. Nothing heavy (because I'm not like that) but all subtly destructive to me, and in my case a way of maintaining a world that devalued me because that was what I understood love to be. I had a secure childhood and funnily enough in IC we've explored how it might have been that very safety net that has made my self-destruction easier - I've been far too risky as I've never really seen the very harsh of life personally and I think it's caused this 'It'll be okay' attitude, as if whatever risk I took I'd come out alright, but I just dug myself deeper and deeper until there is no choice but to face the reality. Funny thing was I thought I had a great childhood - and so from the outside I did. I was also brought up to believe that I could do anything .. and that has been part of the problem in the way that you say, I always had extremee confidence in my ability to win-out, unfortunately I now realise that I was also conditioned that any achievement I made would ultimately be a bad thing. Therefore I was set up in a no-win situation .... filled with the belief that I could do anything and conditioned with the knowledge that anything I achieved was worthless. Looking back a self destruct was basically inevitable with these two opposing drivers. I'm looking forward to proper NC, now knowing that he won't come back. I need to be on my own as I think I've compromised a lot of myself recently - like East said: lowered my standards, and I have to learn my priorities again It will be okay though. You do have to choose sanity in the end and wake up. I still am only beginning my IC journey of self-reflection. I hope I come through it as well as you have. So, what is it then? A year of being single? Sheesh.... haven't done that since I was sixteen. Scary. But good scary too, I guess. Necessary, that't for sure. I don't know if one has to be single, but for me I think it was the period of deep reflection, looking inwards, counselling and avoiding drama that has allowed me to begin to unravel a pattern in my life. I think the other thing is that I'd got to the point where I had enough history that I could realise that there was a pattern ... and so I wanted to understand why. Maybe it's a natural product of experience that when you land in the same position enough times then you begin to wonder .. am I causing this???? Have a fantastic time on your dates. Enjoy the buzz and excitement of getting to know someone knew without all that baggage. God knows you deserve it. Hugs Hazy Thanks Hazy ... the dates have been an absolute hoot. I am just being myself and, to be honest, they are an absolute hoot so far. I've got no axe to grind, don't think I have any baggage, and can accept people for who they are. Away from it all, when I am reflecting about where I am, then meeting people "as me" is quite emotional ... I've never done it "as me" before and it's a new thing .... it's helping me grow even more. Realised I made your thread all about me, sorry! You inspired me so just wanted to share and kinda ended up reflecting too much. Please don't apologise. For one I am really pleased where you are and for second hearing about you helps me reflect on where I am. I loved your post Chris
Author silverplanets Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 It is hard when you fall in love with another - or by other terms lose yourself - to then find you again. And I agree self-presevation is the goal. When your heart is broken, you have to find a way to save yourself. And I also felt last bolded IME. Self-destruction? It takes so many forms as to be a fluid entity. It could be choosing duty over love. It could be the opposite. But I rest on my laurels in the fact that its opposite means peace, including of mind. Peace to you, including with new dates. ww .. I've always valued your posts because you have a deep sense of reflection and perspective on things. Self destruction ... yes so many forms ... which I think maybe why it is so difficult to spot. It's opposite, peace yes (including of the mind) and also with yourself and those around you. It is perhaps odd that on the battlefield that is self destruction the war is only one when we simply stop looking around and look inside instead. Be at peace Chris
Author silverplanets Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 Maybe this will help somone, may be it won't. I have been open and honest in these dates about getting involved with a married woman. I have been honest about why, the timescales and the actions I have taken to make sure I have dealt with my baggage before I have stepped out to meet anyone again. So far, no-one has reacted badly, in fact the opposite ... people have almost made me cry by how understanding they have been and the openess seems to have encouraged them to be open about things in their past. be safe Chris
Hazyhead Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 This is all such great news, Chris. I'm so pleased for you Firstly, I'm glad your dates were fun. They must have really boosted your feeling of security that you are doing the right thing. It's funny when you mention meeting people as you it sounds quite odd, but I think I know what you mean - there's no need to hide things, or judge carefully how you behave for fear of saying or doing the wrong thing and sending the person running - like all the time you have to prove your worth when in fact you were worthy all along. More than. You just weren't appreciated as you should be so you began to hide yourself. Maybe! That's how I feel... I held back a lot. You know, I don't know if xMM ever saw the real me. So, on your dates you were able to let yourself be wholly known and I'll bet it was refreshing. And it's another thing that adds to your xMM's amount of loss, that she never got to see you true you either. I'm inspired by this stage you're at, and hearing how wonderfully things went. You deserve your happiness and all the fun that comes along with it. Enjoy Hazy
Silly_Girl Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 What I can see for me now though is that I spent many years subconsciously searching for something that would cause me so much pain that it would make me "wake up" inside. That's quite profound and I imagine it took a lot (and not just time) to come to that conclusion and to understand it in a positive fashion. I'm a lilttle awestruck and hope things go from strength to strength for you
Author silverplanets Posted February 26, 2011 Author Posted February 26, 2011 That's quite profound and I imagine it took a lot (and not just time) to come to that conclusion and to understand it in a positive fashion. I'm a lilttle awestruck and hope things go from strength to strength for you Hey SG :) Where have you been .... ???? So great to see you're still around. How are you ??? take the absolute best care Chris :)
Silly_Girl Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 SP, you're such a total gent. I loved reading your posts in this thread and echoing Hazy, I find you an inspiration. Truly. I am good. Very good, thank you for asking. I had a serious wobble last year and through Christmas/New Year. A series of factors (the main one being prolonged overwork, stress and exhaustion) led to me having quite a serious bout of depression. It was mercifully short, however. It started with the counselling service receiving my depression survey and ringing me regularly to check I hadn't stoved my car in to a lorry on the motorway (a tempting thought at times!!) to them discharging me before I could start treatment because I was 'too well' by the time I made it to the top of the waiting list. I'm a lucky girl and I worked damned hard to get better. I know not everyone is able to do that in the same position. It scared me though, in a positive way. I am taking much better care of myself, and have more boundaries with my job, my family, my boyfriend and my own expectations of myself. I am very happy in most aspects of my life (still trying to come to a financial settlement with my ex - it's been two years) and I am blessed with some wonderful people who love me and whom I love. It feels as though my priorities become more right and true with each year I am alive. And my son is thriving in every way. I am extremely proud of him, and of us as a little unit. I do love your posts, SP, and I find a lot of what you say resonates as if I have undergone/am undergoing something similar, but you have your way of describing it and I have mine. I wish you so much happiness.
fooled once Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Hi all, I don't often start threads and this one is perhaps a little self-indulgent BUT I kind of think it might help some people and so, for that reason alone, I will share it. For those who know me the background is obviously a long on/off A with a MW (I think it bridged 13 years at least count, although with a significant 5 year break in between when I just walked away from her for good). Then I let her back into my life and the pattern began to repeat all over again until I finally requested, told and finally forced (by informing her H in a non drama fashion every time she ignored my wishes not to contact me) her to honour my wish that I did not, and never did, wish to be in an affair. That was at least 18 months ago and since then I have just remained on my own, bringing up my child, attending counselling for a year to look at me as a person and generally coming to terms with things. So what's the point of this post? Well just that recently I suddenly realised that I really liked someone. I let them know and it turned out they already were seeing someone. I was a little sad but accepted it and am ok with it. I see them regularly and am still friends and, perhaps most importantly for me, I have taken their answer at face value and NOT taken it to heart as a rejection of me as a person (which from my childhood is something that I am prone to do). After just mulling over this for a while I decided that what it really meant was that I needed to push myself to get out there a little more, not as serious dating, but more just to perhaps learn to be comfortable with it, at worst make some new friends and generally to explore that side of life. Although I am by nature reflective, I am not lacking in "front" or "boldness" as it were, and having been through a lot of difficult situations then talking to strangers really does not scare me, so once I decided I was able to make some approaches and am now on a second date tonight, with one more on Friday night and someone who wants to spent Saturday with me. Again .. the fact I have a few dates is not the point either .. The point, if any, is that this period of NC and time alone (I've always generally gone from relationship to relationship before that) has changed me inside. In particular I became aware of a hole inside me from childhood and how this had influenced my major life choices since, and that how, for me, I was just repeating behaviours which would always sabotage me. In short - the very thing which I thought I wanted was the very thing which I always prevented myself from having ... and given enough time I have realised that this is because I was conditioned as a child to associate my being happy with causing other people's unhappiness. So I now seem to have entered a new space for me ... I am beginning to do the normal things people do but I am doing them without this destructive force inside me (well, it's still there but I am aware of it and able to let it surface and then fall away in my mind). This is an utterly new space for me in life and, to be honest, I think the time alone and time self reflecting is what has got me here. And funnily enough, the thing that finally forced me to take a good look at myself was a relationship that was ultimately so destructive to me that it forced another part of me (self presevation) to step in and halt the negative slide. Self presevation was all about saving me and perhaps was the first time I realised that there was a me to save and that me had as much right to be saved as anyone else. I wish I could explain this better and more succinctly but it's hard to do so ... I don't know if I'm fixed fully yet .. but I DO feel fundamentally re-programmed in side .. and these dates (and other things I am doing) are only "gentle" and are a chance for me to see how resilient this "reprogrammed me" is and to gain confidence in it. So far though, it's not let me down, which gives me hope. I'm still not looking for an LTR at present (nor in fact anything casual) .. and I have been honest about that ... It's just fun (and new) to go out and meet poeple in a "dating" scenario .. and, to be honest as I love people anyway, it's always fun to meet new ones. So there you go, I don't know if this helps anyone or not .... I'm not for or against A's , since everyone has to follow their own path and who am I to say what is right .... What I can see for me now though is that I spent many years subconsciously searching for something that would cause me so much pain that it would make me "wake up" inside. And for me, the A (and other things I did) eventually managed to do just that. Ok, far too long a post already ... hope someone can make some use out of it. take care everyone Chris Chris, This was one of the most introspective, honest and brave posts I have read here in such a long time. I think every one needs time 'in between' relationships to get re-acquainted with themselves and also to reflect on the prior relationship to see what new was learned. I believe every relationship we have in our lives (whether it be dating, working, friendship, etc) teaches us something - something that we like, or something that we don't, or something that we would like to change or something that we enjoy....etc. I think what you are doing is such a wonderful thing; not only for you, but for the other people in your life, including your children. Our kids need to see that we can be alone (without a partner) and that we don't lose ourselves in a partnership. That is such a precious gift you are giving to those in your life. Chris, you sound like you're in a healthy place and that is good to read. I identify with so much that you say about the destructive force - you're an intelligent man and yet you made choices that you knew were possibly (being kind ) going to hurt. I did that same thing. Over and over. It's like I started out on a path that I felt, somehow, compelled to see it through to the bitter, bitter end. I had a secure childhood and funnily enough in IC we've explored how it might have been that very safety net that has made my self-destruction easier - I've been far too risky as I've never really seen the very harsh of life personally and I think it's caused this 'It'll be okay' attitude, as if whatever risk I took I'd come out alright, but I just dug myself deeper and deeper until there is no choice but to face the reality. I'm looking forward to proper NC, now knowing that he won't come back. I need to be on my own as I think I've compromised a lot of myself recently - like East said: lowered my standards, and I have to learn my priorities again It will be okay though. You do have to choose sanity in the end and wake up. I still am only beginning my IC journey of self-reflection. I hope I come through it as well as you have. So, what is it then? A year of being single? Sheesh.... haven't done that since I was sixteen. Scary. But good scary too, I guess. Necessary, that't for sure. Have a fantastic time on your dates. Enjoy the buzz and excitement of getting to know someone knew without all that baggage. God knows you deserve it. Hugs Hazy Man, Hazy rocks! I ditto her. Enjoy the dates. Enjoy meeting new people. Enjoy the attention. Maybe this will help somone, may be it won't. I have been open and honest in these dates about getting involved with a married woman. I have been honest about why, the timescales and the actions I have taken to make sure I have dealt with my baggage before I have stepped out to meet anyone again. So far, no-one has reacted badly, in fact the opposite ... people have almost made me cry by how understanding they have been and the openess seems to have encouraged them to be open about things in their past. be safe Chris To me, because you are so open with those you have told, it shows me the people you are surrounding yourself with are "good" people! I told my now H about the Affair I was in when we started dating and like those you have told, he was very understanding and compassionate and .... fell in love with me and asked me to marry him -- knowing all my baggage I hope 2011 brings you (and your family) so much happiness and peace! Best wishes to you Chris!!
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