Jannah Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Well, let's ignore the Tucker Max aspect of this topic and focus on simply the "predatory mindset"...that is, simply searching out the easiest women and not necessarily acting like a complete assh*le to them... I'm sure it works even better if you play a stand-up guy to the insecure women...or is the arsehole really that big of a draw...? Just who is Amy..I mean Hokie. :rolleyes:
Author USMCHokie Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Just who is Amy..I mean Hokie. :rolleyes: Hahah, awesome.
Author USMCHokie Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Although I'm in no way advocating or condoning TMax's behavior, here's a snippet from his first book: "Ladies, let me give you some advice...Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as "deserving" respect; you get what you demand from people. Let a guy **** you in the ass, cum on your back, drink all your beer and then leave, and he'll do it. But if you demand respect, he will either respect you, or he won't associate with you. It really is that simple." Thoughts?
january2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Although I'm in no way advocating or condoning TMax's behavior, here's a snippet from his first book: "Ladies, let me give you some advice...Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as "deserving" respect; you get what you demand from people. Let a guy **** you in the ass, cum on your back, drink all your beer and then leave, and he'll do it. But if you demand respect, he will either respect you, or he won't associate with you. It really is that simple." Thoughts? In my experience, true of men who have a wonky moral compass, poor self-control, don't respect boundaries but actively challenge them to see how much they can get out of the situation. Just because it's served to you on a platter for free doesn't mean that you have to eat everything including licking the plate afterwards, then ask for seconds and swipe the silverware on your way out.
daphne Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 In my experience, true of men who have a wonky moral compass, poor self-control, don't respect boundaries but actively challenge them to see how much they can get out of the situation. Just because it's served to you on a platter for free doesn't mean that you have to eat everything including licking the plate afterwards, then ask for seconds and swipe the silverware on your way out. Unfortunately, I tend to agree with the initial quote. I think it is human nature, and it's appalling. It takes a very self aware person to rise above that. However, I believe most people do take advantage if given the opportunity. This is why I am cynical.
utterer of lies Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 "Ladies, let me give you some advice...Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as "deserving" respect; you get what you demand from people. Let a guy **** you in the ass, cum on your back, drink all your beer and then leave, and he'll do it. But if you demand respect, he will either respect you, or he won't associate with you. It really is that simple." Thoughts? Only people with no self-respect allow themselves to be treated like ****. And why should other people treat them with respect if they don't even respect themselves? I think Tucker Max's stories are fun and not to be taken too seriously. He's just an attention whore with enough money and a quick enough 'wit' to be considered funny by drunken people. If you read the more serious parts of his website, he seems to be mostly sane and ok.
Emilia Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Although I'm in no way advocating or condoning TMax's behavior, here's a snippet from his first book: "Ladies, let me give you some advice...Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as "deserving" respect; you get what you demand from people. Let a guy **** you in the ass, cum on your back, drink all your beer and then leave, and he'll do it. But if you demand respect, he will either respect you, or he won't associate with you. It really is that simple." Thoughts? a bit extreme by most people's standards but the truth behind it is simple: you will be treated the way you allow other people to treat you
Jonno_S Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Although I'm in no way advocating or condoning TMax's behavior, here's a snippet from his first book: "Ladies, let me give you some advice...Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as "deserving" respect; you get what you demand from people. Let a guy **** you in the ass, cum on your back, drink all your beer and then leave, and he'll do it. But if you demand respect, he will either respect you, or he won't associate with you. It really is that simple." Thoughts? I disagree with the part that a guy will do what what a woman will "let" him do. Sure, some guys act that way but some of us have things called standards and lines that we won't cross (and I don't just mean sexually). My standards of conduct and treatment of females often exceeds what is expected but that doesn't mean that I will lower my standards because someone will let me. This guy is scum with very narrow views so I accept that he represents the lowest form of life - and I mean that genuinely. I equate this sort of sentiment with the idea that what is moral is what one can get away with rather than what is right. I do agree, however, that with some people, we get the respect we demand but to boil it down to what he says is pretty pathetic.
Jonno_S Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Unfortunately, I tend to agree with the initial quote. I think it is human nature, and it's appalling. It takes a very self aware person to rise above that. However, I believe most people do take advantage if given the opportunity. This is why I am cynical. I can see why you and others can be cynical but I hope that it's not human nature. Maybe it is. I tend to be a little more optimistic (but then again, I don't date males).
Emilia Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 focus on simply the "predatory mindset"...that is, simply searching out the easiest women and not necessarily acting like a complete assh*le to them... I'm sure it works even better if you play a stand-up guy to the insecure women...or is the arsehole really that big of a draw...? the reason why decent men don't get laid quite as much (on average) as predatory ones that lack compassion is that a lot of good guys will walk away from damaged/unbalanced/insecure women. either they don't want the drama or they simply don't fancy them enough to go through the whole shebang of taking them out, etc, they rather look for a girl they like. finding a cool girl takes time and effort if as a nice guy you pick an 'easy' woman - ie one without self-respect and who is very insecure - if you don't tune in to her insecurities, she may not necessarily sleep with you, even if she is easy with other guys. there are women out there who view men that treat them badly as 'real men' and that's often the case in my view because their fathers had treated them badly and they grew up with that sort of expectation. so the draw of the a**hole is his ability to tap into that dark undercurrent that you as a decent bloke would shrink back from.
Star Gazer Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Although I'm in no way advocating or condoning Tucker Max's behavior... But you are. You want to experience/wish you experienced it for yourself. You said so. And you're asking if the way a "nice guy" can get women is to have this "predatory mindset" and go after easy women. What you're doing is pretty obvious.
Taramere Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Although I'm in no way advocating or condoning TMax's behavior, here's a snippet from his first book: "Ladies, let me give you some advice...Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as "deserving" respect; you get what you demand from people. Let a guy **** you in the ass, cum on your back, drink all your beer and then leave, and he'll do it. But if you demand respect, he will either respect you, or he won't associate with you. It really is that simple." Thoughts? I disagree on a couple of counts. The notion that there is no such thing as "deserving" respect, sounds somewhat antisocial. I recognise that behaving in a way that most people would regard as antisocial is part of TM's persona - but his frequent expression of antisocial views is exactly why he can't talk for most men. Most functioning members of society (functioning as in holding down a job, preserving relationships with friends and family and not getting into fights and drama every time they leave their front door) do in fact recognise others as deserving a minimum level of respect and courtesy unless those others actively do something to induce disrespect from others. Secondly. He seems to be taking the view that because he (from what he's saying there) doesn't respect women who engage in anal sex, let men come on them and keep beer in their fridge which boyfriends/male guests are permitted to drink, then every other man on the planet will feel the same way. I think that a lot of men may well agree - either because they secretly believe sex makes whores of all women, or because if Tucker Max says it then it must be gospel. I'm equally sure that if a woman said "I enjoy anal sex, I get a kick out of a man coming on my back...and if a man is in my home I will generally offer him a beer" there would be men who would appreciate the sentiments and respect the honesty. A woman who tailors her actions according not to her own values and personal tastes, but to what she thinks men will respect, isn't worthy of respect in my view because her sense of self and her personal values are getting lost in the quest for validation from others. I realise there are men who have fixed values about who a woman should be and how she should behave in order to merit respect...but there are also men out there who are prepared to take a more open-minded approach to women and to life in general, and who are likely to disrespect a woman who spends her life being dishonest about who she is in the determination to garner respect from the closed-minded. It's interesting that Tucker Max, who generally portrays himself as an open-minded and unconventional individual chose to make the comment you quoted. Edited February 9, 2011 by Taramere
Woggle Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Just because a person is willing to be a doormat does not mean that you should treat them that way. Somebody who abuses a person that will take it is a bully in my book. If a woman seeks out these kind of men over and over again then yes she should take a hard look at herself but it still does not make it right.
Taramere Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Just because a person is willing to be a doormat does not mean that you should treat them that way. Somebody who abuses a person that will take it is a bully in my book. If a woman seeks out these kind of men over and over again then yes she should take a hard look at herself but it still does not make it right. Yeah, I think what you're touching on there is the implicit message, in the Tucker Max quote, that men don't have ownership over any negativity in the way they perceive and treat women. That if a woman is treated in a disrespectful way, she must surely have done something to deserve it....whether that something is that she had sex with a man, or that she was too fat to be entitled to respect, was wearing the wrong clothes, hanging out with the wrong people or whatever other arbitrary reason a man like that might select for justifying holding a person up for public ridicule. I remember reading his site, and although a lot of the humour appealed to me - and there were some extremely insightful posters - there was also a blame the victim mentality that was immature and taken to dishonest extremes.
O'Malley Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Max's comments are a lopsided denial of choice, the choice of the person who insults and degrades. It's a rehashed version of victim blaming, and his theories support the notion that some people merit manipulation and abuse. It's a dodge to avoid any legitimate discussion or responsibility. Even if an individual felt the need to be emotionally or physically degraded in order to be considered select or to prove her worth, a healthy individual would step back from involving himself in that scenario. Since TM claims to come from an dysfunctional background, I'm curious if he would fall along the lines of his philosophy by saying he didn't deserve respect or proper treatment by certain family members growing up, simply because he didn't 'demand' it. Edited February 9, 2011 by O'Malley
Jannah Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 "Ladies, let me give you some advice...Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as "deserving" respect; you get what you demand from people. Let a guy **** you in the ass, cum on your back, drink all your beer and then leave, and he'll do it. But if you demand respect, he will either respect you, or he won't associate with you. It really is that simple." Thoughts? See, this would never work for me. I have no beer in my house and my butt remains a virgin unless I am married and we decide to give it a whirl.
Author USMCHokie Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Max's comments are a lopsided denial of choice, the choice of the person who insults and degrades. It's a rehashed version of victim blaming, and his theories support the notion that some people merit manipulation and abuse. It's a dodge to avoid any legitimate discussion or responsibility. And perhaps it's simply a personal justification for what he considers "acceptable" behavior. It's not that someone should be treated that way just because they allow it; but rather, it's ok to continue treating them that way if they allow it.
deebeechrisyo Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I think Tucker Max is a massive douche, but I can't blame the guy for how he acts. He's been rewarded all throughout his life for acting the way he does, why change? The real problem lies within our society. If Tucker Max was instead ostracized by society for acting the way he does, I guarantee he would change. Basically, being a professional partying ******* is what is cool in America. Same with cheating. It's really a big problem.
elaina Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Although I'm in no way advocating or condoning TMax's behavior, here's a snippet from his first book: "Ladies, let me give you some advice...Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as "deserving" respect; you get what you demand from people. Let a guy **** you in the ass, cum on your back, drink all your beer and then leave, and he'll do it. But if you demand respect, he will either respect you, or he won't associate with you. It really is that simple." Thoughts? Here's my thoughts... First of all, he's flat out wrong. I have the honor of having many wonderful men in my life.. my Dad is a good and honest man who respects women. My grandpas and uncles are men who respect women as well. My cousins and male friends also respect women. Though I don't know their private lives, I see 0% indication that this is how they will treat any woman, even those who for some reason would let them. First, they are gentlemen. They have high standards they personally have set for themselves. They do not see women as sex toys. Maybe it's how my family is raised, but both men and women are deserving of respect, just for the simple fact that they are human beings. Both are expected to treat anybody how they want to be treated. (My ex husband and exboyfriends respect women... why they are exes is not because of disrespect, but of compatibility.) Second of all, women do not need a proud disrespecter of women to give women advice. The best people to teach young girls and older girls and women about what kind of men to avoid and how are the people who love them the most, who hopefully are their parents and relatives who look out for them. There are some girls who have not had relatives/parents teaching them and looking out for them, nor have good male role models to show them how real men care for women. However, they don't need some guy who proudly calls himself an ********* to give them advise. What they need is people who love them to look out for them, and they need to decide what it is they truly want in life and go for it. Many women who get disrespected do so not because they want to be disrespected, but because they are desperately searching for love, and any attention from men is better than no attention, for many. Concerning a man cuming on any part of a woman or anal sex, there are couples where the man does respect and love the woman and the woman respects and loves the man, and that is perfectly fine and wonderful that they enjoy sex however they want. It's sex without the respect and love that can hurt people though, and that makes sex cheap and makes people disposable. I read a story from Tucker Max where he does seem to wonder if a girl he humiliated made it home safely. Personally, I feel so sad for her, because in his story, he implies that she truly thought he loved her and that they were boyfriend/girlfriend, but really he was just using her. I hope now she is in a good relationship with a man she loves and trusts and respects, who loves and trusts and respects her too! Edited February 9, 2011 by elaina
Author USMCHokie Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 I think Tucker Max is a massive douche, but I can't blame the guy for how he acts. He's been rewarded all throughout his life for acting the way he does, why change? The real problem lies within our society. If Tucker Max was instead ostracized by society for acting the way he does, I guarantee he would change. Basically, being a professional partying ******* is what is cool in America. Same with cheating. It's really a big problem. So who's to blame for allowing this behavior to continue and become "popular" or even looked up to by other men? He continued to be rewarded with easy sex, money, and fame for his terrible behavior, so what's stopping the next guy from employing the same antics and getting everything he wants?
Jannah Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 And perhaps it's simply a personal justification for what he considers "acceptable" behavior. It's not that someone should be treated that way just because they allow it; but rather, it's ok to continue treating them that way if they allow it. Maybe directing these questions towards people who are survivors of abuse would be more beneficial. Woggle, for instance, openly acknowledges he is an abuse survivor. I'd reckon he would have a better understanding of the dynamics and the "Predatory Mindset". I think it would be good to get the message out there, raise awareness for these types of individuals, and what "not to do"....
Author USMCHokie Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Many women who get disrespected do so not because they want to be disrespected, but because they are desperately searching for love, and any attention from men is better than no attention, for many. Hence, the predatory mindset...
elaina Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I disagree with the part that a guy will do what what a woman will "let" him do. Sure, some guys act that way but some of us have things called standards and lines that we won't cross (and I don't just mean sexually). My standards of conduct and treatment of females often exceeds what is expected but that doesn't mean that I will lower my standards because someone will let me. This guy is scum with very narrow views so I accept that he represents the lowest form of life - and I mean that genuinely. I equate this sort of sentiment with the idea that what is moral is what one can get away with rather than what is right. I do agree, however, that with some people, we get the respect we demand but to boil it down to what he says is pretty pathetic. Hello Jonno, Agreed I know guys like you, strong enough to not treat people badly even if the people are asking for disrespect. And yeah, sadly there are guys with no high standards for themselves too. It's so important for women to have men in their lives who show them how great true men are. I have friends who consider me their little sister, and twice I've talked to guys who they knew had issues, and they would let me know. Why? Cause they were looking out for me. They didn't want me to get hurt by some loser. I wish more guys did that... though some girls might not listen to them, but I for one am happy to have guy friends who hold themselves to high standards and who look out for their female friends and advise them against guys who don't.
elaina Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Hence, the predatory mindset... I'm all riled up lol, ready to fight the predatory mindset. The predatory mindset is fine with animals... they have to eat, though it broke my heart when I learned all animals can't be friends. (I love animals you know.) However, men are different than other animals, in that they can talk (don't you wish animals could talk human talk) and create/invent and do all sorts of things animals can't. Men who can control themselves and who want to make a positive difference in the lives of everybody they meet, I really admire. I also really appreciate men who respect and care for women.
Author USMCHokie Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Men who can control themselves and who want to make a positive difference in the lives of everybody they meet, I really admire. I also really appreciate men who respect and care for women. Same here. And I'm glad all my friends are the honorable and respectful type. But the so-called predatory mindset doesn't necessarily need to involve Tmax's particular tactics or his assh*le behavior...it's simply focusing on a certain demographic that is more apt to give it up...as you said, some attention is better than no attention at all...
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