Transition from Friendship to Dating

[irc333]

Okay, I had been "seeing" this woman the past few weeks lately, her relationship history has ALWAYS been that she's been good friends with a guy before she commited to any kind of dating relationship.

 

Anyhow, me and her had been intimate as of late, and on our third date....well, she didn't think it was a date, and since I paid her way here sometimes, she thanks me for it, but says, "you don't have to pay if you don't want to, otherwise Ih ave no problem going dutch"

 

We had a discussion last night about how shes "not looking to date right now" this was our "third" outing....and we had been kind of intimate physically already....I think she's been dealing with a divorce situation (don't worry she IS single) 3 years ago she divorced, and just wants to spend time "being single".

 

But she always calls me, we get into personal details about our lives, we have a lot in common as well....maybe not in hobbies, but in just we can talk about anything.

 

When I was driving her to dinner, she said that she is not wanting to date, in general....but she raelly enjoyed my company and likes me.

 

She would always flirt with me on a constant basis.

 

Then I said to her, "You're kind of hard to read" and she agreed with me on that. I said to her, "Well, you've always been friends with the guys you dated."

 

And she said, "Well, this could wind up as more than just friends"

 

I was talking to a good male friend of mine, he currently has a girlfriend now....he said they met...."hung out"

 

He said, "no PROMISES" as he puts it, and the friendship just naturally blossomed into a dating relationship.

 

Is that's what happening with me?

 

Some might say, "You're just a cuddle buddy to her, nothing more"....but, as she said, "Well, this COULD turn in to something else."

 

She's just trying to "be single".

 

that's another thing to, people like me hear these stories on how their friends relationships started off as a friendship and went from there.

 

But in MY Case, thats' never happened...but I'm hoping that in THIS case this WILL happen.

 

We already had kissed rather intimately, too....and she'd ask me to stay the night with her ac ouple of times to cuddle.

 

After we got done doing some heavy kissing, she said, "Isn't this great, two friends just hangin' out and cuddling?" It was a rhetorical question, and I thought she was kidding, but I didn't want to argue with her in my arms.

 

But, like she said, this could turn into something more.......since that's her Relationship "M.O."

 

And I'm thinking this is how MOST relationships develop

 

That's why we're always seeing "Friends first" in women's dating profiles (I dont think you see it much with men's profiles)

 

It's like "We're friends, until I SAY we are other wise"

 

This is akin to, "I have the Poontang, I make the rules" lol Right?

 

It's like the man has to be okay with how this.....friendship/relationship or as the objectionable old TIMERS say, "Whatever you KIDS call it these days!!" ....and then if the woman wants to make something MORE of it....it's up to her to make the "move".

 

The man is ready for it, it's just up to the woman to decide?

 

To reiterate, some people think, "Well, if it happened with my friend Bill, then it will surely happen with me and the woman I'm seeing now"

 

And I this expectation JUST because it happened with your friend, that it might happen with you, might be a recipe for disaster?

Edited February 7, 2011 by irc333

[carhill]

'See' other women and compare. TBH, if I were in your shoes, I'd put her on the back burner and match her 'enthusiasm' about dating. She's entitled to view your interactions any way she chooses..... and so are you. If incompatible, that.

 

The three years out from divorce, the 'divorce stuff' and the 'friend's first every time' would be my personal red flags. Something isn't adding up. This seems eerily familiar.

[EasyHeart]

I agree with what carhill said.

 

The danger for you is that you build it up in your mind to be more than she does. That's why the advice to date other women is very good -- you don't want her to be your only option when she obviously isn't willing to put the same effort into things.

 

In my mind, it sounds like she's making you the rebound guy. You're a nice guy who will hold her hand and treat her well while she recovers from whatever trauma she experience during her divorce, but as soon as she feels good about herself and is "ready to date", she'll toss you aside in the blink of an eye.

[30Years]

"...it's just up to the woman to decide?"

 

In an interpersonal relationship, the one with the least interest holds the power.

 

Nevertheless, you have only been seeing her for a few weeks. I think it is too early for either of you to commit to a relationship. Her marriage and ultimate divorce has given her the experience to look at relationships with a more critical and serious eye. That is a good thing.

 

If you like her, be her friend. That's what she is asking for, and you have nothing to lose - only to gain. If you wish to date others, so be it, until you are in a committed relationship. And accept the fact that she is free to date others, too.

[Cee]

Friendship first probably doesn't happen in real life. There is some sort of underlying courtship/attraction going on the entire time. She is sending mixed signals, which I think are to keep you around, but at arm's length.

 

I would suggest you let her go to date other people. You can pull a fade and be less available for outings. And see what happens with her. It sounds like she's keeping her options open. Those dating comments suggest she is waiting for something better. As we know, waiting for something better is like waiting for Godot. Better never comes.

 

Also, her comment about isn't it great that friends can cuddle is totally odious to me. She is trying to get romantic "benefits" without the relationship. This isn't fwb obviously, but that is what I call "faux relationship" behavior. She wants to keep you around on her terms, not yours. I think you deserve more than that.

[welikeincrowds]

well, she didn't think it was a date

she is not wanting to date

 

Boundaries, boundaries everywhere.

 

Don't allow ambiguity with your boundaries unless you are honestly indifferent. You'll note that she is not being ambiguous with hers.

[irc333]

Right...you see...I think I'm expecting something from this because I've NEVER had a woman who was in this sort of "status" with me

 

Like "being friends" with me....most of my friendships with women , they wouldn't let me touch them with a 10 foot pole.

 

This one, is not the case. So I think "Hey, she has the hots for me"

 

She's at least letting me touch her intimately.

 

 

 

Friendship first probably doesn't happen in real life. There is some sort of underlying courtship/attraction going on the entire time. She is sending mixed signals, which I think are to keep you around, but at arm's length.

 

I would suggest you let her go to date other people. You can pull a fade and be less available for outings. And see what happens with her. It sounds like she's keeping her options open. Those dating comments suggest she is waiting for something better. As we know, waiting for something better is like waiting for Godot. Better never comes.

 

Also, her comment about isn't it great that friends can cuddle is totally odious to me. She is trying to get romantic "benefits" without the relationship. This isn't fwb obviously, but that is what I call "faux relationship" behavior. She wants to keep you around on her terms, not yours. I think you deserve more than that.

[irc333]

"...it's just up to the woman to decide?"

 

In an interpersonal relationship, the one with the least interest holds the power.

 

Nevertheless, you have only been seeing her for a few weeks. I think it is too early for either of you to commit to a relationship. Her marriage and ultimate divorce has given her the experience to look at relationships with a more critical and serious eye. That is a good thing.

 

Agreed 100%, and we discussed what you just stated right here, that she is trying to recover, because she had "post-marriage" dating relationships that didn't turn out well, she even dated a jerk, and the other guy she dated, he was a nice guy....but he had to deal with her post-divorce situation for a year, they're still great friends...but he just couldn't deal with it.

 

She's a real nice girl....but....there's just some issues in the way, she DOES have potential.....it's like under decent circumstances, she'd make a good girlfriend, and she wouldn't be throwing up barriers...but she and I realize that she needs to "recover".....

 

SHe was married for so long, and she's having to try to become independent. She is not one of those women that can claim to be independent like so many have in dating profiles. She's the opposite of that.

 

If you like her, be her friend. That's what she is asking for, and you have nothing to lose - only to gain. If you wish to date others, so be it, until you are in a committed relationship. And accept the fact that she is free to date others, too.

 

but as soon as she feels good about herself and is "ready to date", she'll toss you aside in the blink of an eye.

 

Actually, I'm kind of hoping when she's "ready to date", she'll say, "Okay IRC, I'm ready to date, let's take our relationship to the next level."

 

Think it'll happen? (And yes, I'll still consider seeing other women, I'm not entirely holding out for her)

[carhill]

'I'm interested in dating with the intent to have a loving, intimate, committed relationship. It sounds like we're in different places right now. How do you feel about that?'

 

If she's not in the same place, regardless of 'potential', the timing is wrong. A woman who's been married, is on good terms with an exBF since her M, and in general has 'good potential', will have a mature and equitable outlook on this. She won't be selfish, rather respectful and understanding of your perspective. Matching up?

[irc333]

I understand some of what you said, not sure about the matching up. She gives me the idea of "Well, this could turn into something, IRC" Actually, she says it rather sheepishly.

 

Which means to me, "I'm not ready just yet, but let's keep seeing each other until I'm ready for a relationship".

 

I mean, if you're going to ask a guy to spend the night with you, make out and cuddle....she might be considering me as a potential boyfriend...even though it's a "friendship" right now?

 

 

'I'm interested in dating with the intent to have a loving, intimate, committed relationship. It sounds like we're in different places right now. How do you feel about that?'

 

If she's not in the same place, regardless of 'potential', the timing is wrong. A woman who's been married, is on good terms with an exBF since her M, and in general has 'good potential', will have a mature and equitable outlook on this. She won't be selfish, rather respectful and understanding of your perspective. Matching up?

[30Years]

'See' other women and compare. TBH, if I were in your shoes, I'd put her on the back burner and match her 'enthusiasm' about dating. She's entitled to view your interactions any way she chooses..... and so are you. If incompatible, that.

 

That's it right there.

 

She's put up boundaries. Respect them and look for commitment elsewhere.

[irc333]

You call her asking you to stay at her place over night, make out and heavy petting, putting up boundaries?

 

I dunno, I've NEVER been in a situation like this where a woman actually let me TOUCH them. LOL

 

 

That's it right there.

 

She's put up boundaries. Respect them and look for commitment elsewhere.

[irc333]

I get the feeling, that the "left over" single people are THESE kind of people (I really don't mean to sound insulting on this). But the ones that are taking don't have issues.

 

And the left overs are sitting online chronically single, and all I'm doing is meeting these people. lol

 

It's full of people, that are legitimately single, but they have issues, baggage, not emotionally available, commitment phobic, ex issues, etc.

 

When I first contacted her it was a year ago, but I think she's made some progress, after a year of being "unattached", but I think she still has hurdles to jump over that still exist.

 

Like she's resentful of her ex husband moving on, got a new girlfriend, and now she's pregnant with child.....and also living in THEIR house she moved out of. And she's stuck being single.

 

It seems when things are going good for her ex, she gets upset about it.

[carhill]

OP, that last post right there is a wonderfully clear indicator that she is not relationship material. TBH, I'd hug this woman and give her a big wet kiss for being so clear and direct about her life and health and then, quietly, walk away. You're not her therapist; you're not her caretaker; you're not an investor in her potential. She's just one of billions of people on the planet.

 

If she's a truly good woman, she'll accept your perspective and respect it, just as you should hers.

[irc333]

Well, recently though...she has been stopping that kind of "talk" as of late. So that's why I went out with her a 3rd time.

 

She seems to be in better spirits the past week, so I'm wondering if she's doing well? Like her current state of mind might be improving...and dwelling less on her previous marriage. She has been seeking help from a church counselor lately, she said her counselor says I might be good to have as a friend.

 

She has self help books on divorce recovery as well. So at least she's making SOME kind of effort with moving foward into her journey into this alien world of single-hood.

 

 

 

 

OP, that last post right there is a wonderfully clear indicator that she is not relationship material. TBH, I'd hug this woman and give her a big wet kiss for being so clear and direct about her life and health and then, quietly, walk away. You're not her therapist; you're not her caretaker; you're not an investor in her potential. She's just one of billions of people on the planet.

 

If she's a truly good woman, she'll accept your perspective and respect it, just as you should hers.

[carhill]

Question: When she calls you and asks you how your day went, tell me about that; about the length and breadth of that interest. This speaks to balance. When you share a particularly poignant and important part of your life with her, say like she's been sharing her post-marital situation with you, do you *feel* that she remembers and cares and empathizes *with you*. This is balance. I see it very clearly now with women. Prior, as a 'caretaker', I ignored such things. Be watchful of that, the balance of care.

 

If she's talking less about her prior ex and M and more about her future *with you*, then I'd feel positive about the relationship potential, as long as her actions supported her positive words. Discount anything that sounds like 'salesmanship'. That's just carbon dioxide. Look for the meaty stuff; the stuff that healthy partners are made of. Proactive, sincere, unilateral care. It's evident in a healthy person, right from the beginning. You'll see it in how that person treats the people s/he loves. There's no ambiguity.

 

Date other women

[irc333]

Well, one thing to note, a REAL bad storm went through my area, she was watching the local news and called me to leave a VM to see if I was okay.

That was a BIG plus in my book.

 

She said this past week, she's had supportive, nice female friends who are also aware of her sitaution giving her support, one even sent her card to cheer her up. She called me to tell me that, too.

 

And I said that was VERY nice of them, and that she has good friends. I felt good for her of that.

 

In lieu of her supportive card from her female friend.

 

I sent her Cheesy Josh Grobin video "Don't give up (you are loved)"

 

(okay, getting mushy now, lol)

 

So she had some interest in my well-being, and she also does ask me about my day. Like particular aspects of my job and such when we're talking on the phone between "dates".

 

 

 

 

Question: When she calls you and asks you how your day went, tell me about that; about the length and breadth of that interest. This speaks to balance. When you share a particularly poignant and important part of your life with her, say like she's been sharing her post-marital situation with you, do you *feel* that she remembers and cares and empathizes *with you*. This is balance. I see it very clearly now with women. Prior, as a 'caretaker', I ignored such things. Be watchful of that, the balance of care.

 

If she's talking less about her prior ex and M and more about her future *with you*, then I'd feel positive about the relationship potential, as long as her actions supported her positive words. Discount anything that sounds like 'salesmanship'. That's just carbon dioxide. Look for the meaty stuff; the stuff that healthy partners are made of. Proactive, sincere, unilateral care. It's evident in a healthy person, right from the beginning. You'll see it in how that person treats the people s/he loves. There's no ambiguity.

 

Date other women

[carhill]

Have you met any of her friends? If so, how did that go? Those are people she loves and who love her. Watch and compare.

 

I'd have to look through your past threads, but seem to recall a similar pattern with others in the past. If so, what about this one is the same? Different? Does it feel healthier and more balanced? Why? IMO, if the interactions were/are meeting your needs and desires, this thread likely would not exist. You'd be enjoying each other and LS would be largely irrelevant. So?

 

TBH, if I were in your situation now, I would match her level of 'friendship', stow the erstaz-intimacy, and *date* other women. If there's a connection there, and she's sufficiently motivated by it, she'll act on it. You can take that to the bank. If she disappears, she would have anyway, just with more of your love bank withdrawn.