zengirl Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 People who are late tend to be big picture thinkers. This is probably because they focus more on the big picture - getting there - than they do the details (showing up on time). I disagree. Sometimes big picture people may be late, but there are plenty of people who simply put the energy in to be on time. I think you can see the big picture AND the details at the same time, frankly. I am what I consider a "big picture" person in a cognitive sense (I work from the wide version down, rather than the details up----this is from a cognitive learning perspective the difference between big picture/detail thinker, so perhaps you mean something different). That doesn't mean I neglect details, just that they get fleshed in last in a project. So that's what I infer from "big picture" --- as I said, perhaps you are using some other meaning. However, being timely has nothing to do with this. If someone arrives late for work consistently, they will be fired because they are not valuing the company's time. If someone arrives late for me consistently, they are telling me they don't value my time, and will be rejected as such. It's about effort and respect. (Of course if something happens, and someone calls to let me know they've been held up, this is very different.) Flaking is a seperate issue to me. To me, it's just an extension of the issue. It's someone not setting aside time and effort for you, but to an extreme degree.
dispatch3d Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 daphne, I think you are referring to my recent tendency to not be very opinionated. I tend to just look at all viewpoints and decide on the merits or demerits (ok this may not be a good use of the two words!) of the two standpoints. I find it helps me pick a better overall solution. If I become opinionated on something then by the nature of being opinionated I have a limited view. How to describe that. Well if I take a stance on opinion A, I probably have reasons A B and C to back it up, and assumptions D and E which are the backbone of my argument. If instead of trying to "argue" I decide to observe the situation and weigh possible solutions. Well you can see I have a completely different viewpoint than the opinionated one. If you're referring to my tendency to do what I just did (look at what you said, then talk in some kind of abstraction as to how I may approach a problem). Well uhhh, maybe you are being too concrete! There are descriptions for this sort of thing. I think there were color tests that went green, red, yellow? I can't remember. I may have switched from a green thinker to a yellow thinker. I'd have to look up color-coded personalities. Gah, long reply! I also ramble. Actually if you start grey thinking rambling is a natural extension of it (ie. it's the opposite of opinionated). As to the second. One sec - yup still a dude. And yup, still not angry. I'm doing work right now so I don't see how I would be worked up. Zengirl, I'm not really referring to a strategy to solve problems. You may go from abstract->concrete or concrete->abstract. I personally find it easier in real life problems to go concrete->abstract. However, if I'm doing something more analytical then I'd do abstract->concrete. Soo uhhh lol. Sooo uhhh we are at a standstill and I will agree that we do not agree?
EasyHeart Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I think there is a difference between people who are regularly late and people who think nothing of canceling on you. One of my partners is chronically late, but everyone knows it and we just refer to him as being on "Dave Time". If I want to meet with Dave at 11:00, I schedule it for 10:45 and he's usually only a little late. No biggie. But that would drive me insane in a wife/girlfriend. Bailing on plans is completely different. That annoys the hell out of me. Last summer I had a woman cancel our plans two hours before I was supposed to pick her up. We were going to a concert and I had already paid for the tickets. She didn't understand why I was mad. "Just ask someone else. Or sell them on Craig's List." It was unreal. And if I ever met anyone with a 3-Hour Rule, I just would never see them. I don't have any fixed rules, but with me it would be more like a 3-Day Rule. I'm busy, and it's not likely that I'm going to have any free time for you unless you give me at least a few days notice. That's one of the big reason I like dating professional women -- they understand the importance of scheduling. I actually get a little aroused when i ask a woman out and she pulls out her calendar. Rawr!!!
dispatch3d Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 That chick sounds pretty inconsiderate to me. You should be glad she canceled. I wouldn't ever schedule a concert date with a girl I've never dated though (because of the flake thing).
EasyHeart Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Oh, we had gone out several times before that. And she's the one who had told me about the concert and said that she wanted to go. Obviously, I never asked her out again after that incident.
utterer of lies Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 That's a nice theory, but none of my male friends would agree with you there. Personality is subjective but intellect isn't. I'm smarter than most of the guys I date. Can you think of an alternative theory that better fits to the facts than the one I proposed?
Jonno_S Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) I think this is a 'People who are not late' see it as a sign of disrespect thing. My BF and I were just discussing this with our friends a few nights ago---about people who are always late/flaking. Since neither he, nor I are like that (Sometimes, we will give a window, i.e. "I'll be over between noon and 3," which is fine too, for certain things, though not occasions/shows/anything with a start-time or many people involved generally), we both find it very disrespectful for someone to be more than, say, 15 minutes late. Or even to be 15 minutes late on many occasions. I try not to put myself in the center of someone's world. If they're late, I take it more of a reflection of their natural tendencies or what's going on in their lives rather than attribute it to their view of me. I used to be perpetually 5-10 minutes late and a boss had a very good heart-to-heart talk with me and I adjusted my behavior. My being late had to do with my own things rather than anyone/place/thing where I was going. Perhaps in some instances it could reasonably be viewed that way (a sign of disrespect) but it would take a lot to convince me. I think there are plenty more clear behavioral indicators of that. And don't rule out spontaneity, ZG. Some of the best times of my life, alone or with others, have been just organic, fluid days/weekends etc. with no plans, no expectations, just an adventurous spirit. Maybe that's why I love to sail - you never know which way the wind is going to blow so one has to adapt. Edited February 7, 2011 by Jonno_S
zengirl Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I don't believe expecting people to be timely is putting yourself at the center of the world----in fact, I believe people who are late are putting their time and their needs at the center of the world, making other people wait for them or wasting their time. Especially if it's a habit. I agree that it speaks to their character, more than how much they value ME -- it speaks to how much they value others in general --- and I don't care for people who think their time is more important than mine and cannot do what they say they will. And don't rule out spontaneity, ZG. Some of the best times of my life, alone or with others, have been just organic, fluid days/weekends etc. with no plans, no expectations, just an adventurous spirit. Maybe that's why I love to sail - you never know which way the wind is going to blow so one has to adapt. I've no issues with spontaneity when appropriate, but someone who could never make plans is TOO far the other extreme. I don't get offended if someone calls me up for spontaneous plans (I'm probably not available, 9 times out of 10 for them, because I have something planned, but it doesn't bug me) but I would be offended if someone could not reserve time for me.
Author daphne Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 I actually get a little aroused when i ask a woman out and she pulls out her calendar. Rawr!!! Someone's an OCD planner... I didn't know anyone else used Rawr except me.
Author daphne Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 And don't rule out spontaneity, ZG. Some of the best times of my life, alone or with others, have been just organic, fluid days/weekends etc. with no plans, no expectations, just an adventurous spirit. Maybe that's why I love to sail - you never know which way the wind is going to blow so one has to adapt. I went to Costa Rica last year where I planned nothing. I woke up, ate, surfed or not, hung out with the other surfers, ate, drank, went to bed. In no particular order. With no pressing time limits. Best vacation I ever had in my life. Even if Costa Rican food is as bland as it gets.
Author daphne Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 daphne, I think you are referring to my recent tendency to not be very opinionated. I tend to just look at all viewpoints and decide on the merits or demerits (ok this may not be a good use of the two words!) of the two standpoints. I find it helps me pick a better overall solution. If I become opinionated on something then by the nature of being opinionated I have a limited view. Ok. It really does require a lot of effort to get through some of your writing. But I'll take that at face value, if I even understand what that is. lol. Otherwise, when I said I think your'e emotional I didn't mean at teh time you wrote anything per se. Just emotional types tend to be highly verbal and circumvent a bit.
Jonno_S Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I went to Costa Rica last year where I planned nothing. I woke up, ate, surfed or not, hung out with the other surfers, ate, drank, went to bed. In no particular order. With no pressing time limits. Best vacation I ever had in my life. Even if Costa Rican food is as bland as it gets. I case my rest.
dispatch3d Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Ok. It really does require a lot of effort to get through some of your writing. But I'll take that at face value, if I even understand what that is. lol. Otherwise, when I said I think your'e emotional I didn't mean at teh time you wrote anything per se. Just emotional types tend to be highly verbal and circumvent a bit. I'm not emotional you are! Haha meh okay I guess you don't like generalized rambling. Meh. I like it .
zengirl Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I case my rest. To me, it's very different to be spontaneous on vacation (particularly in a place like Costa Rica, where I spent summers as a kid and is a lovely, lazy place) and in daily life, where you're chasing ambitious, balancing a social life, and progressing with hobbies and school. I've had many vacations where I rested on a beach and did nothing. I've even spent months abroad doing very little planned activities, besides the work (teaching/tutoring/tour guiding for kids groups) that kept me in house and home there. I guess people live different lives, though. I have work + working on a doctorate + friends + hobbies + exercise + BF. If my boyfriend couldn't make plans or schedule me in, he'd never see me, and he wouldn't be my boyfriend anymore.
paddington bear Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/he-loves-me-he-loves-me-not-women-are-more-attracted-to-men-whose-feelings-are-unclear.html
Author daphne Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/he-loves-me-he-loves-me-not-women-are-more-attracted-to-men-whose-feelings-are-unclear.html Why thank you Paddington. A little science to back up what I've already known. Sigh.
dispatch3d Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Well, I think it's obvious that I'm in the camp of women who enjoy being chased. It's one of the few areas where I really enjoy the division of genders. I feel like a girl, and it feels really good. The French have the whole thing down to an art form. As a matter of fact, long ago I dated a French guy who started taking me for granted. I was young and heavy handed and I clamped down on him and went out and started dating other guys. It took weeks for us to reconcile but later he told me "I don't know what you did, but I'm glad you did it. It made me fall in love with you." He never again did the goofy things he was doing at the time that made me dump him. Good observations on how men and women try to reciprocate in kind, based on their preferences, only to find that it doesn't work quite the same way in reverse. But hey, I don't mind if a guy works out a little to keep me interested. Your description of being chased is kinda interesting. It kind of comes off to me like "hey - the attention makes me feel good!". Like a hit of the ego-crack-pipe. Man I wish I had a crackpipe I could hitup.
Author daphne Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 Your description of being chased is kinda interesting. It kind of comes off to me like "hey - the attention makes me feel good!". Like a hit of the ego-crack-pipe. Man I wish I had a crackpipe I could hitup. It makes everyone feel good. I give as good as I get. I like making people laugh. And the attention they get makes them happy for a moment.
nemesite Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) I am perhaps late to this thread, but I chanced upon it by accident, so feel the need to contribute. Hules, I'm sure everyone's different but in my experience, most men do really like the chase. When I talk about being hard to get, it's not playing. These are generally people I have liked as friends in the past and we've had concentric social circles where we saw each other often. I was always a little out of reach but we were still friends so it's not quite being cold to someone you went out with a few times. If I was cold, it was more in the sense that whereas I was still friendly (I was friends with most of these guys), I was also somewhat immune to their discomfort. You can add me to the number of men who do not appreciate this behaviour. IMO, this idea that "all men enjoy the chase" is another trite cliche that's up there with "all women like bad boys". For me, it's very simple: you're either interested or you are not. If you are, then let's give it a try and see where it goes, if not then GTFO and stop wasting my time. As others have said, if I have to chase and pursue, I assume she's not really interested and will just leave it there. OP, I'm sure you mean well and genuinely want to meet someone worthwhile, but you really need to listen to what most of the men in this thread have said. And if you play games, you will attract players, these are the only types of men who will respond to all the playing hard to get rubbish because they enjoy the challenge of being able to wear you down to get what they want. And once they've hit it, they'll quit it, which of course results in you being even more distant the next time around, thus encouraging even more tenacious players and so the cycle continues. Eventually, you will become jaded and start saying that "all men are pigs" etc when the reality is your behaviour has attracted the very pigs you say you don't want. In short, you have absolutely nothing to lose by being honest and upfront. If you are interested, let the guy know without being too forward, and if he is interested in you, the rest will follow. All this playing hard to get crap is for the movies and doesn't work out in real life unless you like being played yourself. Which you will be, because you get back what you put out there. Where are all these men who don't get scared off when you show you like them back? I haven't met them. Where are the guys who don't value you less if you do the initiating/chasing? You're talking to one now. Unfortunately, I'm taken. When a woman shows that she likes me back, it makes me feel that all my efforts towards her are worthwhile and that I'm not wasting my time. If a woman plays hard to get, a red flag goes up, alerting me to the fact that she is a player of mind games and therefore not sincere. If you are after a genuine relationship with a genuine guy, this is NOT the way to go about it. You will not hear of many (if any) long term, successful relationships that have been based on the premise of playing hard to get, acting aloof and making a guy think you're not really interested in him. Edited February 16, 2011 by nemesite
jane100 Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Just to say (Daphne), I did appreciate your original post though thread got too long for me. Don';t know as to whether you were any clearer, but hopefully you are.
Author daphne Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 Just to say (Daphne), I did appreciate your original post though thread got too long for me. Don';t know as to whether you were any clearer, but hopefully you are. Thanks Jane. I am. I have learned to disregard what a lot of men say they want on this board and stick with the actual responses of the empirical responses from men that I have dated.
nemesite Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Thanks Jane. I am. I have learned to disregard what a lot of men say they want on this board and stick with the actual responses of the empirical responses from men that I have dated. Oh well. Your loss. You can ignore us, but if you play games, you will continue to attract men who also play games. Like attracts like. However, since this is your course, you might want to check this link for some pointers. Good luck.
Author daphne Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 Oh well. Your loss. You can ignore us, but if you play games, you will continue to attract men who also play games. Like attracts like. However, since this is your course, you might want to check this link for some pointers. Good luck. I find it interesting how guys like you think that a rational person would listen to your manipulative, negative nonsense as if I'm somehow superstitious and think a troll like you knows what you're talking about. The only person I would listen to is someone who sounds a) reasonable b) logical and c) not manipulative. You don't fit any of those so shoo.
nemesite Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/he-loves-me-he-loves-me-not-women-are-more-attracted-to-men-whose-feelings-are-unclear.html This study focuses mainly on online dating sites so isn't a terribly reliable measure on the dynamics of real life interactions between men and women. As other research has found, women who believed the men liked them a lot were more attracted to the men than women who thought the men liked them only an average amount. However, the women who found the men most attractive were the ones who weren’t sure whether those men were into them or not. WTF? So these women thought that the men who paid them the most attention didn't actually like them, and were more attracted to the ones who were unsure? That makes no sense to me, but perhaps it was the women themselves who enjoyed the challenge of a man who may not be into them that much. Either way, it says more about the 47 women (minuscule sample, BTW) in the study. How can 47 university students represent what all women think? This study would have more credibility if they'd actually bothered to ask more than 47 people and obtained a wider societal cross-section. Still, it's easy for one to find something to confirm what they already want to believe. I guess just being honest about what you want is asking too much for some ladies. /sigh
nemesite Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I find it interesting how guys like you think that a rational person would listen to your manipulative, negative nonsense as if I'm somehow superstitious and think a troll like you knows what you're talking about. The only person I would listen to is someone who sounds a) reasonable b) logical and c) not manipulative. You don't fit any of those so shoo. That was uncalled for. We may not agree, but this does not make me a troll (which, BTW doesn't mean "someone who has a different opinion to yourself"). As a man, I'm simply trying to clue you in on how men actually think as opposed to relying on age old cliches with no real basis in reality. And how does calling for honesty make me "manipulative" (particularly coming from an advocate of playing mind games)? And where does superstition come into this exactly?? :s Anyway, sorry for trying to help. Continue as you are, it's obviously working out wonderfully for you.
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