Being hard to get - a double edged sword

[dispatch3d]

When I did it I was simply friendly (most of these guys were friends at some point), slightly flirtatious, confident, and very physically aware of their presence (no ogling.) Yet I withdrew if they advanced to try to make something happen. I didn't flake or not take their calls. It usually didn't get to that point. I can't remember what I did, when it did.

 

I do remember doing this to one particular guy who lived across the hall. Good looking tennis instructor. He wanted to give me practically free lessons. I'd flirt and smile and never call him to take him up on the lessons. He got pretty mad and stopped talking to me, he was so insulted. LOL I didn't take it personally though. I think I tried to get a lesson from him later before he showed how mad he was and he ignored me. I thought he was a big baby to be honest.

 

That's interesting. So it seems like offer to do something, then withdraw was the right approach. Because ultimately you are just looking for the attention. So if the guy continues to "hit on" you, then you continue to get what you want - attention. However, if he "withdraws" attention then you are no longer being ego-fed and may indeed chase him. Humm interesting.

 

Of course through your own game playing, you're only going to get with people who are good at game playing. You'll weed out all the honest, nice, or sincere guys who are just looking for relationships. Then wonder why all guys are commitmentphobes haha. Probably because the guys you end up dating just know the game, and play the girls how they want to. Maybe that's why girls never like guys who end up sleeping with a lot of girls? I don't know, meh.

 

I find applying your thinking interesting to situations I've had. There was a girl who indicated a lot of interest on an online dating site. So I was like okay whatever why don't we meet, so I scheduled it for a saturday (bad day I know, but I'm busy so meh). She sent me a message sunday saying she couldn't make it the past saturday, then rescheduled for wednesday. On wednesday she cancelled 2-3 hours beforehand. I really should have just not replied until later in the day (to make her sweat). Anyhow I ended up telling her I was just looking for fun and happiness, and her continually cancelling and rescheduling on me is incredibly not fun for me. I'm sure she'll find someone else, good luck on her search.

[dispatch3d]

Well, I think it's obvious that I'm in the camp of women who enjoy being chased. It's one of the few areas where I really enjoy the division of genders. I feel like a girl, and it feels really good. The French have the whole thing down to an art form. As a matter of fact, long ago I dated a French guy who started taking me for granted. I was young and heavy handed and I clamped down on him and went out and started dating other guys. It took weeks for us to reconcile but later he told me "I don't know what you did, but I'm glad you did it. It made me fall in love with you." He never again did the goofy things he was doing at the time that made me dump him.

 

Good observations on how men and women try to reciprocate in kind, based on their preferences, only to find that it doesn't work quite the same way in reverse. But hey, I don't mind if a guy works out a little to keep me interested.

 

Ah this is probably why you assume guys like chasing. In actual fact the only ones who LIKE chasing are the ones who are likely to get the reward (haha). Meaning the players. Think about it, if you're a guy who women typically "reject", then the idea of having to chase AND not getting the girl isn't very appealing.

 

This kinda goes with my above as well. If you enjoy being chased, then so long as the guy is asking you out and you can be noncommital and "reschedule" you will continue to do so. (you are being rewarded for your behaviour). If he all the sudden stops the invites, or is noncommital back you'll wonder if your charm isn't working or something. Then you may in fact chase a little (or at least make some effort to actually show up for someone and not be a giant attention whore hahahaha). My experience with girls so far has been the only time they show up/act interested is when I'm actually not interested, when I withdraw attention, or if I call them or their ****ty treatment. Any girl I'm interested in and pursue I get treated so ****ing terribly I've learned to not do that stuff hahaha (seriously u treat guys who like you awful, no offence).

 

Fwiw you alluded to your current "strategy" earlier. I mean, it's not really a strategy aimed at nailing down a good boyfriend. It's a strategy more aimed at always feeling good about yourself and your dating life. Anything that could cause anxiety or pain is avoided, and things that cause little to no grief are sought after (like having guys continually give you attention). So meh, I wouldn't really call that a strategy. It's more of a pattern of behaviour.

[carhill]

Quite frankly you will often be off-based, and will frankly guess "intentions" that more closely reflect your view on the world than anything they may or may not be thinking.

 

Quite frankly, due to long life experience, I feel manipulated when encountering such actions, so what their thoughts or intentions are is deemed irrelevant.

 

Remind me, how long have you been married? I dealt with the OP's dynamic in my marriage, to the severe erosion of my self-esteem, and it absolutely affects my 'vision of the world'. I insert disclaimers in many of my posts to that effect. If you find my posts to be non-sensical, devoid of meaningful content, or sane advice, please avoid them. Thanks

[daphne]

Heck, it might even attract a few S&M fellas, if that's something of interest to you.

 

I think you're referring to the sex profile guy from another post. lol.

[daphne]

(makes googly eyes at daphne)

 

that isn't me in the avatar. My hair is a few inches long on the top of my head

 

*makes googly eyes*

 

hiiiiii

 

heeeeyyyyy

[waynebrady]

Quite frankly, due to long life experience, I feel manipulated when encountering such actions, so what their thoughts or intentions are is deemed irrelevant.

 

Remind me, how long have you been married? I dealt with the OP's dynamic in my marriage, to the severe erosion of my self-esteem, and it absolutely affects my 'vision of the world'. I insert disclaimers in many of my posts to that effect. If you find my posts to be non-sensical, devoid of meaningful content, or sane advice, please avoid them. Thanks

 

Unfortunatley your post will get ignored by the OP and all other women who are so convinced all men love to chase and think its awesome.

 

Some women just don't get it... Hell even some men don't get that just because they like to chase doesn't mean all men like it.

[daphne]

Daphne, I'm following this thread but feel at a loss for the right words. I can relate to what you're experiencing.

 

I know that when I act or am actually indifferent (as opposed to acting aloof), guys have been much more interested, than if I've been genuine and expressed genuine interest (to the point of initiating contact/dates/etc.). It's frustrating.

 

In fact, there's one guy I was pretty much blowing off since before Christmas because I was truly indifferent towards him. But he kept at it, never gave up. I actually found myself intrigued that he didn't write me off, and agreed to a date. Since I've now expressed interest in return, he seems less interested. WTF? I don't get it!

 

 

You crack me up!

 

Yep. He wanted a challenge. You started to give him the time of day. Mission achieved. His challenge wasn't getting laid. He just wanted to see if he could get a pretty girl interested. You stroked his ego.

 

Boys can say what they want but we're the ones dating the guys so we know the real story. I can have a guy from online tapdance about or play games about when to meet for a while. I pull the plug cos I'm not interested in anyone who's not really looking for a relationship (which this type of behavior suggests,) and all of a sudden they're blowing up my email or phone with why don't you want to talk to me anymore? One guy pursued for the following month and I almost agreed to go out with him just so he'd lose interest and move on.

[waynebrady]

Yep. He wanted a challenge. You started to give him the time of day. Mission achieved. His challenge wasn't getting laid. He just wanted to see if he could get a pretty girl interested. You stroked his ego.

 

Boys can say what they want but we're the ones dating the guys so we know the real story. I can have a guy from online tapdance about or play games about when to meet for a while. I pull the plug cos I'm not interested in anyone who's not really looking for a relationship (which this type of behavior suggests,) and all of a sudden they're blowing up my email or phone with why don't you want to talk to me anymore? One guy pursued for the following month and I almost agreed to go out with him just so he'd lose interest and move on.

 

These men you are talking about are obviously not normal men who are looking for normal relationships.

 

Surely you realise that if all men acted that way then no relationships would ever actually develop and mankind would die out, right?

 

Normal men who are after serious relationships more than likely won't enjoy getting played around by the woman, and if you dispute that then again if all men acted the way you have described mankind would infact die out because it would be impossible for any relationships to develop

[Jonno_S]

Unfortunatley your post will get ignored by the OP and all other women who are so convinced all men love to chase and think its awesome.

 

Some women just don't get it... Hell even some men don't get that just because they like to chase doesn't mean all men like it.

 

I think she gets it - that some men aren't chasers/pursuers. She's just talking about specific instances of the chase rather than lump all guys into one heap.

[daphne]

That's interesting. So it seems like offer to do something, then withdraw was the right approach. Because ultimately you are just looking for the attention. So if the guy continues to "hit on" you, then you continue to get what you want - attention. However, if he "withdraws" attention then you are no longer being ego-fed and may indeed chase him. Humm interesting.

 

Of course through your own game playing, you're only going to get with people who are good at game playing. You'll weed out all the honest, nice, or sincere guys who are just looking for relationships. Then wonder why all guys are commitmentphobes haha. Probably because the guys you end up dating just know the game, and play the girls how they want to. Maybe that's why girls never like guys who end up sleeping with a lot of girls? I don't know, meh.

 

I find applying your thinking interesting to situations I've had. There was a girl who indicated a lot of interest on an online dating site. So I was like okay whatever why don't we meet, so I scheduled it for a saturday (bad day I know, but I'm busy so meh). She sent me a message sunday saying she couldn't make it the past saturday, then rescheduled for wednesday. On wednesday she cancelled 2-3 hours beforehand. I really should have just not replied until later in the day (to make her sweat). Anyhow I ended up telling her I was just looking for fun and happiness, and her continually cancelling and rescheduling on me is incredibly not fun for me. I'm sure she'll find someone else, good luck on her search.

 

oh dispatch. I don't weed out good guys with game playing. Why do some guys have to proseletyze about this type of thing when everyone does it, and it's a harmless flirting. It's called FLIRTATION. It makes most people feel good, if for a short period of time. Armageddon isn't going to happen because I flirted with a bunch of guys and it went no where. I'm not going to end up alone for it either.

 

And another thing is, read the original post. This is what was happening many moons ago. How I date now is not the same. I'm just wondering if I should go back to the other way because I feel that it is possible that if I had stopped running away from them, one of them may have actually continued to be interested.

 

As for the flakey girl, I would have probably done the same thing. Did she not tell you ahead of time she wasn't making it on Saturday? Am I right in reading that she told you the next day? And then canceling again? Everyone gets busy and I really do too, but I rarely ever have to cancel and I have never had to reschedule more than once. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever rescheduled. I respect other people's time and I hate flakiness.

 

Last week I had a guy who couldn't meet me on the weekend which was tough for me. But I managed to schedule some time during lunch for 2 days later. I wrote him to confirm, and he flaked out. Said "something came up." I suggested maybe next week. He responded in the affirmative. Then when I didn't respond (I was starting to realize he just seemed to be playing games,) he responded again saying maybe he could meet me after all. It got too flakey so I bounced. If it starts off that flakey, in my mind it has no where to go.

[waynebrady]

I think she gets it - that some men aren't chasers/pursuers. She's just talking about specific instances of the chase rather than lump all guys into one heap.

 

They are saying all men leave as soon as they show any intrest back and thats why they need to play hard to get all the time and then as soon as they stop the man leaves

 

The problem with that is, that if all men acted that way then NO RELATIONSHIPS WOULD EVER DEVELOP. They don't understand that the men they are talking about are not normal, they are not after normal healthy relationships.

 

If all men acted the way daphne and stargazer says then how come some people actually do get togheter? Or should I just assume that in long term relationships that work out the woman have never reciprocated any intrest and acts disintrested and aloof all the time and thats the only reason it work?

 

What about couples who have been married for 20 years, have the woman acted aloof and disintrested and made the guy chase her for 20 years even in marriage? By daphne's logic thats exactly how it is since all men act that way.

[daphne]

Ah this is probably why you assume guys like chasing. In actual fact the only ones who LIKE chasing are the ones who are likely to get the reward (haha). Meaning the players. Think about it, if you're a guy who women typically "reject", then the idea of having to chase AND not getting the girl isn't very appealing.

 

This kinda goes with my above as well. If you enjoy being chased, then so long as the guy is asking you out and you can be noncommital and "reschedule" you will continue to do so. (you are being rewarded for your behaviour). If he all the sudden stops the invites, or is noncommital back you'll wonder if your charm isn't working or something. Then you may in fact chase a little (or at least make some effort to actually show up for someone and not be a giant attention whore hahahaha). My experience with girls so far has been the only time they show up/act interested is when I'm actually not interested, when I withdraw attention, or if I call them or their ****ty treatment. Any girl I'm interested in and pursue I get treated so ****ing terribly I've learned to not do that stuff hahaha (seriously u treat guys who like you awful, no offence).

 

Fwiw you alluded to your current "strategy" earlier. I mean, it's not really a strategy aimed at nailing down a good boyfriend. It's a strategy more aimed at always feeling good about yourself and your dating life. Anything that could cause anxiety or pain is avoided, and things that cause little to no grief are sought after (like having guys continually give you attention). So meh, I wouldn't really call that a strategy. It's more of a pattern of behaviour.

 

French guy wasn't a pick up artist or a player. You're beating a dead horse that's not even accurate.

 

As far as the rest, I don't knwo what to say. You are reinventing me in the shape of women who have mistreated you. With the exception of one guy, I can guarantee you that these men have nothing but good things to say about me. One is still pretty angry, even though he got married. But interestingly, he's the one that I ended up going back to and stopped taking for granted. I felt it was time to pick one and try a relationship. He was my "backburner guy." He was crazy about me until that point. We were really good friends, too which is probably why I chose him. He got mad when I did finally come around. Then he got even angrier when I started dating someone else because he had decided to pursue someone else. It was kind of crazy at that point. He wanted to date her to punish me. I date someone else and moved on, he became hateful. They met and he did everything he could to make me stop seeing the other guy. Needless to say, I never saw the genuine side of this guy until this point. He turned out a little crazy and I never saw it coming.

 

As for "you treat guys who like you awful," I don't know if you mean women in general or me. I disagree because I think you're totally projecting. Plus, other than this guy friend I mentioned above, I'm still in contact with most of the others and they still think I'm a great gal. So thanks for trying to piss on my parade buddy!

 

What current strategy? You've stopped making sense dispatch. What I've been currently doing is dating without being aloof. Oy vay. I sense that you're a bit of an emotional guy. It's tough to have a linear conversation with you.

[Jannah]

I'm curious to know the type of men OP is referring to. We know that one was married, in which case, doesn't even really apply as far as being emotionally available.

 

OP you mentioned most of these men are from the same social/business circles. What type of men are they would you estimate? I.E their personality, past relationship history, age range, etc.

[daphne]

Unfortunatley your post will get ignored by the OP and all other women who are so convinced all men love to chase and think its awesome.

 

Some women just don't get it... Hell even some men don't get that just because they like to chase doesn't mean all men like it.

 

I would never intentionally ignore Carhill. He's the bees knees.

[waynebrady]

Since ALL men leave as soon as the woman stop playing hard to get and reciprocates his intrest I guess if you want to be with a man(which i doubt) you just gonna have to play hard to get and be aloof/disintrested forever.

 

And then after 20 years of marriage the man asks if you wanna have a picknick(or whatever) and you reply nah im busy. When the man hugs you don't react, when the man kisses you you just say stop Hey all men leave as soon as the woman show any intrest back. Men don't want to be loved by a woman( ) Men don't want to be liked by women() I guess this is how it is.

 

Now we got that solved. You women don't ever have to show intrest in any man or be affectionte/loving towards any man ever. Just act like you couldn't care less about him no matter how long you been togheter. Good luck, have fun Your dating problems is solved.

[daphne]

Quite frankly, due to long life experience, I feel manipulated when encountering such actions, so what their thoughts or intentions are is deemed irrelevant.

 

Remind me, how long have you been married? I dealt with the OP's dynamic in my marriage, to the severe erosion of my self-esteem, and it absolutely affects my 'vision of the world'. I insert disclaimers in many of my posts to that effect. If you find my posts to be non-sensical, devoid of meaningful content, or sane advice, please avoid them. Thanks

 

I wasn't even done with posting from the reply above yours and got accused of ignoring you.

 

I didn't really understand the response to your post that caused this response. I wasn't sure if it was a love fest or other.

 

ANd here, what dynamic was it that your wife participated in? Was she flirting with a bunch of different men while married to you?

 

Has the game already started?

[waynebrady]

I would never intentionally ignore Carhill. He's the bees knees.

 

ALL men hate to be liked by women. ALL men will leave as soon as the woman shows any intrest back.

 

I have already solved this problem for you. Don't ever show any intrest back, always play hard to get and always act like you couldn't care less about the man no matter how long you been togheter. There, your problem is solved, case closed.

[daphne]

And dispatch -

 

for the record one of the guys just texted me to go watch teh superbowl!!

And another posted on my fb that he was happy I was born on my birthday.

 

They must really, really hate me for all of that flirting we did.

[daphne]

These men you are talking about are obviously not normal men who are looking for normal relationships.

 

Surely you realise that if all men acted that way then no relationships would ever actually develop and mankind would die out, right?

 

Normal men who are after serious relationships more than likely won't enjoy getting played around by the woman, and if you dispute that then again if all men acted the way you have described mankind would infact die out because it would be impossible for any relationships to develop

 

You would think that these guys would get that too. However, we have a ton of people so it'll take a while for us to die out because some smart men are going to know better than to let it go to waste.

 

And given that Star and I were talking about some flakey habits from online guys, maybe there's a grain of truth in the "these are not normal men." LOL

[daphne]

I'm curious to know the type of men OP is referring to. We know that one was married, in which case, doesn't even really apply as far as being emotionally available.

 

OP you mentioned most of these men are from the same social/business circles. What type of men are they would you estimate? I.E their personality, past relationship history, age range, etc.

 

Good question. Some of the guys are assuming these are pickup artists and players. Not so.

 

2 were tennis pros. I used to play a lot of tennis. The rest were white collar professionals, one was a guy I call obscenelyrichmale. None of these men were married at the time. I do not flirt with married men. I think 3 of them married, 3 of them to the women they met after they decided to move on and give up on me. Wait 3 were tennis pros, but 2 of them got a little huffy about it.

 

There's a range as far as their personalities and relationship histories. 2 of the tennis pros actually did get married. One was very serious, the other very flirtatious. Obscenelyrichmale was very serious. They were all older.

 

1 appears to be a commitmentphobe. He's a dater, not a relationship guy. Another guy who is a relationship guy but he keeps hoping to get a woman out of his league. Or likes fixer uppers like carhill.

 

Shoot. I cant' remember the others right now. Sorry.

[daphne]

What about couples who have been married for 20 years, have the woman acted aloof and disintrested and made the guy chase her for 20 years even in marriage? By daphne's logic thats exactly how it is since all men act that way.

 

Eventually, guys do want a relationship and stop their goofy behavior (women too because this isn't jsut a guy thing) and get to know a woman. Until that point, he's going to take his options for granted and as something infinite, especially if he can get a girl of Star's caliber. He's thinking "I can pull a star, I can do even better!" Slaps forehead.

 

I know couples who have been married for 20+ years where the woman tortured the man worse than I've ever done and the guy either stuck it out and turned her head or walked away and she ran after him. She wasn't done with him yet. LOL

 

People want different things at different times.

[daphne]

ALL men hate to be liked by women. ALL men will leave as soon as the woman shows any intrest back.

 

I have already solved this problem for you. Don't ever show any intrest back, always play hard to get and always act like you couldn't care less about the man no matter how long you been togheter. There, your problem is solved, case closed.

 

Oy. You are a broken record. :rolleyes:

[waynebrady]

You would think that these guys would get that too. However, we have a ton of people so it'll take a while for us to die out because some smart men are going to know better than to let it go to waste.

 

And given that Star and I were talking about some flakey habits from online guys, maybe there's a grain of truth in the "these are not normal men." LOL

 

Obviosuly men like that doesn't exist. All men hate it when women show any intrest in them. Only solution is treat them like you couldn't care less if the man died, even in marriage other wise he will leave because men always leave when women show any intrest

 

Ok seriously. Even it wasn't all men and just majority who act the way you describe, then very very few people would ever get into a relationship. Its a MINORITY of all men who are the way you describe, the reason I think you ladys always get them is because they are more likely to go after you like that. They make the most "noise" if you get what I mean. While most men are infact normal and want normal relationships doesn't extinquish themselves as much.

[dispatch3d]

French guy wasn't a pick up artist or a player. You're beating a dead horse that's not even accurate.

 

But interestingly, he's the one that I ended up going back to and stopped taking for granted. I felt it was time to pick one and try a relationship. He was my "backburner guy." He was crazy about me until that point. We were really good friends, too which is probably why I chose him. He got mad when I did finally come around.

 

As for "you treat guys who like you awful,"

 

What current strategy? You've stopped making sense dispatch. What I've been currently doing is dating without being aloof. Oy vay. I sense that you're a bit of an emotional guy. It's tough to have a linear conversation with you.

 

Haha sorry I've obviously offended you and that wasn't my intention.

 

I think you took my post as a personal attack when it wasn't meant as one at all. I was making generalizations/abstractions from specific things you were saying.

 

The second paragraph. "when I finally came around". Did this occur when he stopped pursuing? That's what I was guessing.

 

I wasn't attempting to imply guys "hate" you or don't like you. Sorry it wasn't intended in that manner.

 

In general if a guy acts toooo interested he gets the reschedule/canceling/can I get him to do this treatment. That's what I was referring to as "awful". Of course you won't view your own actions as "awful" to anyone. That would be counter to your own views towards yourself. Meaning nobody actively thinks of themselves as an awful person (unless they are in depression or something. I don't know).

 

I meant your "strategy" before didn't seem like a strategy at all. I wouldn't say you have a current strategy either. What do I mean by strategy. Difficult question. A strategy to me would be some organized and thought out plan to weed out bad guys and pick good guys. Often it seems like women either go good chemistry or bad chemistry that's it (this is not a strategy!). That is what I meant.

 

As far as me being an emotional guy. Meh that's possible. I'll say I rarely get angry or upset though. Much to my own fault. It makes it a lot harder to relate to other people when they are angry if one never gets angry. Know what I mean? Like I would rarely become angry at anything a particular person says. I guess back in the day I could be mad at someone for like ever or something weird. But I kinda did away with that, and decided I would like everyone (good or bad, for better or worse). So meh, idk. To answer your questions sometimes I get emotional but it usually passes relatively fast. I'm good at figuring out why I'm mad.

 

I wasn't really looking for how you would treat a flaky girl. I was more wondering where she's coming from, and what is she thinking. To me it makes no sense to make plans with a guy like that then flake. Like it's not something I would ever do because I (1) see no personal gain/benefit from it (2) see no emotional benefit to it. In actual fact I'm sure she made plans because she wanted to get to know me, then cancelled because of some kind of emotional response.

 

I had a roomate who would constantly do things and I'd say things like man what are you thinking, how does this help you. This caused a lot of tension, because the guy didn't exactly like having his irrationality pointed out to him. The truth of the matter is, he wasn't thinking when he did x at all. He just did the thing, then complained later when **** didn't work out for him (that was kind of his life strategy). I was often confused because, well, I simply rarely react emotionally to things (especially for extended periods of time).

 

Anyhow, I feel like I'm touching on many of things that got me in trouble with him with you right now. Not to say you live like he does at all. I'm sure you don't. Just that I have trouble understanding what girls (and some guys) are doing at times due to my lack of being emotional in that way.

 

So meh, am I an emotional guy? I couldn't answer really. I get upset, and I'm okay with that. I think it's important I recognize when I'm upset. I'd say my emotional skills have increased a ton, and is the big reason I'm happy most of the time.

 

Anyhow if you've taken offence to my posts then I apologize. Prehaps I (unwittingly) hit nerves. None of them were meant in malice or anything though. I was just merely analyzing and attempting to come to conclusions. Yeah I probably project my negativity about women onto my analysis - that's probably very very true. And you are talking about a particular kind of attitude which I have had bad life experiences with and personally really hate. So meh. That's my feelings on it.

[dispatch3d]

And dispatch -

 

for the record one of the guys just texted me to go watch teh superbowl!!

And another posted on my fb that he was happy I was born on my birthday.

 

They must really, really hate me for all of that flirting we did.

 

haha I wasn't trying to imply that there's anything wrong with flirting. Go ahead and flirt .