Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 Daphne, do you actually believe they chased you for you? They chased because of the chase. If I remember correctly, you mentioned that once you became interested in a guy, you had to realize he didn't want anything from you. First part, I get you now. Yes, they do chase for the chase. There was one guy. He did still want something from me but he became flakey, therefore not interested enough.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 bottom line, if you dont play hard to get with the guys you want to date, it will me MUCH easier and faster to weed out the guys who dont want something meaningful. They will always play their hands quickly when they want something quickly. Theres plenety of ways to see who is actually interested in you as a person, and who is only interested in a quick lay. I know for sure I dont appreciate a challenge when I want a relationship with a woman, I like my women warm and emotionally available. You dont have to let your guard down, just watch the mans behavior is all. Duly noted. I like my men warm and emotionally available too. Not that I need more than one. Oh, and very true that by going slow it does weed out the pretenders. Like I said, it's weeded them all out from the past year so far..
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 Anyway, no matter what motivation behind the hard-to-get, most men are triggered by that, even they deny that. It is in the nature. some of those men may not have the ability to get close to a woman. and you choose them for a reason I don't know that you can say you choose them until you've dated them a while. Until a few months in, you have no way of really knowing who the person is. It's a broad spectrum of guys that I've chosen from. Only 2 have been similar. They were the guys I was most interested in. Neither displays emotional unavailability at all.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 Haha I've definitely never heard a guy say "Yeah man, I just met this girl and she's great. I keep asking her out but she keeps flaking out, it's really awesome." Lol doesn't happen. The (a) noone got hurt (b) guys liked doing it anyways are both just rationalizations for your behaviour. Quite frankly, guys hate both of these. One of the reasons I'm kinda bitter is because one of my female friends dropped a bit of a bomb. One of those PUA types (haha thanks guy) came by and hit on my friend. Frankly, I don't really care. Then he asks the standard orbiter question "Is there any guys you're great friends with, but you'd just never have sex with them". Of course she bit and decided to explain to me how "in love" I am with her and how she's just stringing me along and it's really cool. To say I'm offended is an understatement. Will I still be her friend? I don't know. I indicated I would be just so she wouldn't cry in the middle of the bar. But meh. I like being friends with people because we generally like each other. Not because they enjoy using me as a self esteem boost. Just saw this. Some funny stuff. I will say I'm not rationalizing anything. I haven't done anything wrong. As for your friend, I'm sorry she was so insensitive. Sounds immature. I never disrespected anybody, and I don't believe it was ever a conscious thing. It's something I realized when I was trying to figure out my pattern in relationships. That was on phase. So I never thought to myself "hey, I know this guy likes me so I'll see how much of an ego stroke I can get." Most of the guys I strung along I had initially been interestd in and may have wanted to date at a different period in my life. Except one. He needed a haircut. Bad.
yongyong Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Remember this, you can control the first sex as a woman but you CANT control his commitment. So if you want to control the guy Forever, just don't have sex with him and have a miserable life (I am sure you will be proud of yourself till 40 because of those )orbiters You are trying to be sneaky here (even you find the genuine guy, you will play hard to get) I am sure that will get you rest of your life if you don't change your attitude. I am struggling right now with dualing thoughts on my previous/current patterns of behavior when I date. I learned very early on that being a challenge kept men interested. I learned how to get men to pursue without making an effort. If any effort was involved, it was being detached and friendly. Killing them with cold sweetness. I was in control and to be honest, I could tell that the men enjoyed my aloofness. I felt a little sadistic, but it went along with my anger at men for being so fickle. It was a complete aphrodisiac to these men. It was an interesting time and I found myself stringing along a handful of guys, with no real interest in a relationship. I didn't date any of them, but we were in the same circles and they pursued. Several of these men pursued me FOR YEARS. Two of them still have feelings for me, even though one is married. Last year he got drunk at a company function and told me I was beautiful in front of his wife and our colleagues, much to my embarrassment and chagrin. I understand that unrequited love/lust is a powerful thing. I was jaded and fearful of actually being available. A budding commitmentphobe, perhaps. And now, I found myself wanting a relationship. I have for a while. But I find that, time after time, when I actually give a real guy a chance, one that never would have had it before, he fails to remain interested enough to continue pursuing like he initially did. It's really reinforcing my old beliefs that men really do like a challenge. And boy, do I know how to give one. The problem with this, however, is that i lose respect. I want to be able to continue being available for teh guy who does get it and knows what he wants and isn't just looking for the challenge. But at this rate, I feel like I'm more out to teach a few lessons because I have little patience or respect left. And I'll be honest. I have noticed that the colder I am about rejection, the more desperate the guy is to try to get me. The nicer I am, the more disinterested. So I'm at a loss. If you are always a challenge, you never let anyone in. You never have a relationship. You play a role and you know that the people that pursue you for it, will lose respect if you ever let your guard down. But if you're warm and emotionally available, you're not as highly prized.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) characters***** Edited February 6, 2011 by daphne
singlelife Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 characters***** Since you gave me good advice on my thread I feel I need to return the favor. Honestly another poster was right about one thing. We only chase because women make us chase. The problem most women have is playing just hard enough and knowing when to give in. Because to a man there has to be a payoff at some point. So when you keep hanging around him and you start to see he is an awesome guy he also gets to see how you are. And he sees all the good things and all the bad things too. Can you imagine a guy being married and not having sex or his wife doing anything to make him feel loved yet wanting him to cater to her. That even sounds crazy. It wouldn't last. So when you are dating most women think they are but fail to show the man the qualities he may be looking for in a woman. Also if you have flaws and act like you are golden he will look at that like wow she isn't as smart as she thinks she is or she isn't as social as I thought. Things that could be legit. So then you give him time to evaluate you and determine maybe he doesn't like you very much. So the only thing left is sex. So if he doesn't get it he moves on. So women do this to themselves all the time. Then when they miss out on that guy they are crushed. Or when they get into a stage where they are finally ready to date then they have displayed that they really aren't relationship material. And guys notice this. So again, women unintentionally screw themselves on this. But I think the skill lacking is just how hard to play and when to give in. That's the key.
paddington bear Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Daphne I'm glad you raised this topic. I'm pretty bad at behaving in an unobtainable way, so I haven't had the same experience. However, I have noticed that guys who seem to like me, as soon as I show that I like them back, run a mile. It's so frustrating. If you play games you then have to sustain the games to keep the interest, or don't play games and don't 'get the guy' either because he's like "meh, too easy, boring, could have her any time, keep her on the back burner". People on here say that they are the wrong kind of guys and an emotionally healthy guy (or one that was truly interested) would not do that...but, if that is the case, from my experiences anyway, then there are a lot of 'the wrong kind of guys' out there. Where are all these men who don't get scared off when you show you like them back? I haven't met them. Where are the guys who don't value you less if you do the initiating/chasing? I haven't met them either. Which does tend to make you believe that 'all men' are like this and that, due to having experienced it and having had no experiences to the contrary. Anyway, some interesting and thought provoking points were raised: That's also something I noticed--guys who seem more interested in a relationship will want to move slower overall than guys who aren't. Guys who are into casual hookups/dating will want to up the investment quickly so that you feel comfortable enough with them to want to f*ck. They'll talk about the future; they'll call you sweetie or babe, basically act like instant boyfriend--false intimacy. Then they run once they have what they want. TigressA - this is interesting to me. I'm so used to the casual/hookup approach from men that when a guy takes things too slow I tend to read it as a lack of interest, rather than perhaps genuine interest and respect. In any case, point duly noted for the future. I think online dating adds an extremeness to this whole thing. There's an element that "wow, if I can get her interest, I can possibly get the interest of all of these other women out there too." So they keep hunting. And some circle back when they've hunted them all and found that wasn't the case. Agree with this. Not sure I like the kid in the candy shop aspect of online dating. I have also thought about the circling back aspect. Let the guy go and date all these others until the penny drops that he perhaps disregarded someone special in the hopes that perhaps there is someone better out there only to find there is not. You mentioned men love to chase. Several guys in this thread said they don't enjoy it, but do it because they have to, but you either ignored them or disregarded their opinion. From my experience men do like to chase, but I think we need to define what we mean by chase. I think women have misinterpreted allowing the guy to woo you, to slowly get to know you into showing 0 interest, not returning calls and so on as a power game. No one wants to chase that much! Why pursue someone who is so disinterested? Too much like hard work and horrible for anyone with a genuine interest in another person to be made feel so unsure of what the other person feels about them. I've been on the receiving end of this behaviour, and it totally works, but it sets up a weird addictive cycle where your happiness is dependent soley on whether the person you like deigns to give you attention or not, you get the high when they give you attention, drop down to hell when they ignore you again. Very unhealthy and damaging. My interpretation for allowing men to chase means simply not to be too clingy, needy and insecure that you lose the other person's respect and disallow the other person from getting excited to see/talk to you because it is all too full on too soon. In any case Daphne I have no idea what the answer is for you because I'm just as confused as you. Doing the opposite of your behaviour hasn't worked for me at least.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 We only chase because women make us chase. The problem most women have is playing just hard enough and knowing when to give in. Because to a man there has to be a payoff at some point. This is not necessarily true. I would say it is true of the guy who does want a relationship. So being with a woman who's playing hard to get is probably a chore because he feels like "Why do I have to jump through the same hoops as the jackasses when I'm a good guy?" Unfortunately, because the jackasses probably set the standard that guys weren't necessarily responsible with their attention to begin with. As for women who are/play hard to get there are multiple types as well. The girl who is using it as a defense to weed out the bad apples and build attraction. The girl who is using it to lure in men/throw them back in the water. I have mostly done the first, but during the phase I went through, it was definitely the latter. Men couldn't be trusted, so I was happy to give them what they wanted. The chase. As for dating currently, I think your'e making some assumptions. I'm very sweet to a guy I'm interested in. If he's treating me well, he's got a hint that there'll be a good payoff. And I don't mean sex, necessarily. Unfortunately, that hasn't been working so much for me. I even talked to the last guy I liked about it and mentioned that part of the reason that I, and other women tend to be a little aloof in the beginning is to see if the guy's really willing to work for it. Because if he is, then we have half a chance in hell that he'll be willing to work after he's in the relationship. Otherwise, we find ourselves being the givers and that kinda sucks. He actually agreed with me. It's an old fashioned notion, but if you're old fashioned, you know what I'm talking about.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 People on here say that they are the wrong kind of guys and an emotionally healthy guy (or one that was truly interested) would not do that...but, if that is the case, from my experiences anyway, then there are a lot of 'the wrong kind of guys' out there. Where are all these men who don't get scared off when you show you like them back? I haven't met them. Where are the guys who don't value you less if you do the initiating/chasing? I haven't met them either. Which does tend to make you believe that 'all men' are like this and that, due to having experienced it and having had no experiences to the contrary. I see we understand each other. As much as we'd love it that men weren't this way, it isn't the case. It's teh human condition. People like a challenge and don't want what they can have easily. But what came first? The chicken or the egg? And yes, when I did show this last guy interest and that he had a real, viable chance he blew it pretty bad. It's left a bad taste in my mouth because I see them all as pretty flakey right now. But then again, the online dating does add an extremeness to this that I have to keep in mind.
Joe Normal Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I can't tell just from the information you've given, but do you think it's possible that sincere/genuine guys simply don't go for you from the beginning, because of your aloof/female player image or behaviour? It sounds like you are attracting men mainly interested in your looks and sexual persona/image, rather than who you are as a person. In other words, typical men looking for NSA sex, to get laid with a hot chick. Of course if you turn off your sexual charisma they will lose interest. Maybe you've cursed yourself by playing a role so long that you don't know how to be appealing as your genuine self. Men fall for the role, but not the real you. The ones who might fall for the real you are not going to approach you while you keep putting on this front. I would suggest you stop ALL the games-playing, and just act yourself for the rest of your life. It may take you 1-2 years to learn how to be yourself, and you may have an uncharacteristic dry spell - suck it up and eventually you will rediscover your inner personality, based on your core values rather than what gets male pickup artists to hit on you, and then you should start attracting men who like you for you.
Joe Normal Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 People on here say that they are the wrong kind of guys and an emotionally healthy guy (or one that was truly interested) would not do that...but, if that is the case, from my experiences anyway, then there are a lot of 'the wrong kind of guys' out there. Where are all these men who don't get scared off when you show you like them back? I haven't met them. Where are the guys who don't value you less if you do the initiating/chasing? I haven't met them either. Interesting. I ONLY date women who show a clear interest in me first. No interest, no approach from me. As a result, I ignore about 95% of women, but have a pretty high success rate with the other 5%. So not only do I like women showing interest, but that's the only type of woman I like. I also don't know any of my male friends who get put off by a woman showing interest. However, it may be the way you are doing it. One thing that does put me off is a woman literally walking up to me, saying she likes me, and asking me out. I prefer a more subtle come on, that gives me a cue to make the first overt move. And IMO most men feel like that. So perhaps you are showing interest too blatantly, in a way that 'steals the thunder' from the guy who wants to feel like he is making the move. Is this so? If it is, perhaps consider being a bit more subtle about it. All it takes is a look, a smile, a bit of mild physical contact like putting your hand on his arm for a second while making a point, looking back over your shoulder to smile as you leave. Keep a bit of mystery and allow men the illusion that they are making the running, whilst secretly it's you setting the agenda.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 I can't tell just from the information you've given, but do you think it's possible that sincere/genuine guys simply don't go for you from the beginning, because of your aloof/female player image or behaviour? It sounds like you are attracting men mainly interested in your looks and sexual persona/image, rather than who you are as a person. In other words, typical men looking for NSA sex, to get laid with a hot chick. Of course if you turn off your sexual charisma they will lose interest. Maybe you've cursed yourself by playing a role so long that you don't know how to be appealing as your genuine self. Men fall for the role, but not the real you. The ones who might fall for the real you are not going to approach you while you keep putting on this front. I would suggest you stop ALL the games-playing, and just act yourself for the rest of your life. It may take you 1-2 years to learn how to be yourself, and you may have an uncharacteristic dry spell - suck it up and eventually you will rediscover your inner personality, based on your core values rather than what gets male pickup artists to hit on you, and then you should start attracting men who like you for you. The point of the post was to mention that actually being available hasn't worked. The being hard to get was more a phase that happened quite a long time ago.
Joe Normal Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I can say that the proof is in the pudding. The men that continued to chase me beyond reason, didn't do so because they hated the chase. No you can't say that, because it's a self-selecting sample. By definition, you are going to encounter the men who like to chase. The ones who don't like it, are not going to make beyond normal effort with an aloof and distant woman. One of the costs of being reserved & distant is that you self-selecting for the group that like to chase - and that group tends to be more populated with *******s, pickup artists, players etc than the general population of men.
Joe Normal Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 The point of the post was to mention that actually being available hasn't worked. The being hard to get was more a phase that happened quite a long time ago. How do you know it's being available that was the problem? Finding an excellent romantic partner is not an easy task. There could be many reasons you haven't met the right person yet. There's just no evidence that it's your being available that has caused this. Being available will only put off men that don't like available women. Unless you are being an outright slut, which it doesn't sound like at all from your posts, then why would being available be a problem?
Jonno_S Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) The point of the post was to mention that actually being available hasn't worked. The being hard to get was more a phase that happened quite a long time ago. I have always wondered about "hard to get." I don't think any woman has played that with me and I have imagined what it would be like to be treated that way. I am not really a pursuer, either, so it might not be possible. Maybe someone has played hard to get and I just interpreted it as rejection and bailed. I would never want to be with someone who doesn't want me there. But I can rarely ever remember a time when I was actually rejected. (I know all that sounds arrogant but it's not meant that way, I just don't ask/pursue unless I get a message there is a connection.) I have always felt that I had to fend off, to some extent, if I wasn't into the woman. In the times when I was into the woman, I let her know and her response was equal. I remember once going out with a girl who was pursuing me. I was not that into her but at the same time, I did see some potential. I was saying goodnight to her once after taking her out and I remember telling her to play hard to get a little. The next day she was knocking on my door, asking for, get this, an "oil filter wrench." There were at least two auto-parts stores between my house and hers where she could have bought this $13 part so clearly it was a pretext. I remember being so aggravated that she didn't just listen to what I told her. She was a nice girl too, but that kind of killed it. I think there is something that violates something primal in men when women do the pursuing. Maybe I'm wrong, probably an already discussed topic here somewhere. Edited February 6, 2011 by Jonno_S
EasyHeart Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Wow, there are a lot of interesting things in this thread and I don't think I can address all that I want to, but here are some general thoughts: 1. Anyone who is "playing hard to get" or "playing" anything else is making a mistake. Dating is not a game to be "played". If you have to manipulate people into liking you, what does that say about your prospects for a healthy relationship? 2. A few of the women in this thread have noticed that men who are interested in serious dating/LTRs move slowly. Good for you!!!! This is probably the single most important lesson you can learn about dating. People are strangers when they meet. Anyone (male or female) who is interested in a relationship will want to get to know you before jumping into anything. 3. This phenomenon discussed in the OP is not confusing or unusual. You're just missing a very important point: these men are showing interest in sex, but when you show "interest in them", you are showing interest in a relationship. Those are completely different things. So it's really an apples/oranges situation: Him: "Hey baby, nice apples!!!" You: "OMG, he likes me! He really likes me!! I'll give him some of my oranges!!!" Him: "Ewww! Who wants oranges?!? Run! RUN!!!!" 4. I don't know who you doofuses are who pretend that men don't like to chase, but it's not true. I'm a man. I chase, I like it, and I'm good at it.
Jonno_S Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 3. This phenomenon discussed in the OP is not confusing or unusual. You're just missing a very important point: these men are showing interest in sex, but when you show "interest in them", you are showing interest in a relationship. Those are completely different things. So it's really an apples/oranges situation: Him: "Hey baby, nice apples!!!" You: "OMG, he likes me! He really likes me!! I'll give him some of my oranges!!!" Him: "Ewww! Who wants oranges?!? Run! RUN!!!!" Love this illustration (but not always true).
EasyHeart Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 No, it's certainly not always true, but my guess is that's the situation the OP is dealing with. And the genders can be reversed, of course.
mo mo Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I am struggling right now with dualing thoughts on my previous/current patterns of behavior when I date. I learned very early on that being a challenge kept men interested. I learned how to get men to pursue without making an effort. If any effort was involved, it was being detached and friendly. Killing them with cold sweetness. I was in control and to be honest, I could tell that the men enjoyed my aloofness. I felt a little sadistic, but it went along with my anger at men for being so fickle. It was a complete aphrodisiac to these men. It was an interesting time and I found myself stringing along a handful of guys, with no real interest in a relationship. I didn't date any of them, but we were in the same circles and they pursued. Several of these men pursued me FOR YEARS. Two of them still have feelings for me, even though one is married. Last year he got drunk at a company function and told me I was beautiful in front of his wife and our colleagues, much to my embarrassment and chagrin. I understand that unrequited love/lust is a powerful thing. I was jaded and fearful of actually being available. A budding commitmentphobe, perhaps. And now, I found myself wanting a relationship. I have for a while. But I find that, time after time, when I actually give a real guy a chance, one that never would have had it before, he fails to remain interested enough to continue pursuing like he initially did. It's really reinforcing my old beliefs that men really do like a challenge. And boy, do I know how to give one. The problem with this, however, is that i lose respect. I want to be able to continue being available for teh guy who does get it and knows what he wants and isn't just looking for the challenge. But at this rate, I feel like I'm more out to teach a few lessons because I have little patience or respect left. And I'll be honest. I have noticed that the colder I am about rejection, the more desperate the guy is to try to get me. The nicer I am, the more disinterested. So I'm at a loss. If you are always a challenge, you never let anyone in. You never have a relationship. You play a role and you know that the people that pursue you for it, will lose respect if you ever let your guard down. But if you're warm and emotionally available, you're not as highly prized. I've already echoed similar sentiments in other threads, but here's how I feel about the whole game-playing and hard-to-get thing. I really do not think guys or girls should be easy to get to begin with. Most people have plenty of options for dating, so they should be selective. In my approach to courting a woman, I do not make it obvious I am interested in her. I'm not exactly playing a game though, because I do not actually become interested until I learn a few things about the woman first. Even if there is an initial attraction, I do not make moves until I know that the woman is compatible. During this period where I am learning about the woman, I do not fall for tricks or pursue the woman's company too heavily-- again, not because I am playing a game, but because I really have not made a decision about the person yet. The funny thing is that on many occasions, after I have gotten to know the woman, she turns things around and starts playing games with me. At this point it's utterly ridiculous to do that because it is obvious to me what is going on, and it's also pointless because if I am pursuing her it means I am genuinely interested. She should know that by that point and she should not feel the need to test my sincerity. So when she does that she essentially shoots herself in the foot and makes herself seem immature to me. Daphne, your worries about letting your guard down are somewhat unwarranted. Guys like me will put in the effort to try to bring that guard down, and if we do, we do not lose respect for you--t's actually the opposite. We feel a sense of accomplishment, and we are thrilled to be with you because we know you are the real deal and can be trusted.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 One of the costs of being reserved & distant is that you self-selecting for the group that like to chase - and that group tends to be more populated with *******s, pickup artists, players etc than the general population of men. Actually, not true. Pretty much only 1 guy was a player out of a much larger sample. But he actually wanted a relationship and still does. Or at least so he tries to convince me.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 How do you know it's being available that was the problem? Finding an excellent romantic partner is not an easy task. There could be many reasons you haven't met the right person yet. This is very true, I'll give you that. As I always say, anyone can change their mind at any time for any reason. It's not easy. However, I am giving you my perception over years of relationships and dating. Granted, dating has changed dramatically over the course of that time.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 I think there is something that violates something primal in men when women do the pursuing. Maybe I'm wrong, probably an already discussed topic here somewhere. I'm glad to hear a man admit this. We instinctively know this, but guys will tell us "oh we love when a woman pursues" so we stupidly test that theory only to find out that wow! they really don't like being pursued. As for the other, if you leave without knowing for sure if she's interested or not, it's possible that you have cut out many potentials due to your misperception that she wasn't interested. Understand that most women will rarely call to pursue a guy because of what you said about the wrench girl.
waynebrady Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 4. I don't know who you doofuses are who pretend that men don't like to chase, but it's not true. I'm a man. I chase, I like it, and I'm good at it. You are 1 guy. What you like or don't like doesn't say anything about what all guys like. I don't like the chase. But I will chase because I have to.
Author daphne Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 3. This phenomenon discussed in the OP is not confusing or unusual. You're just missing a very important point: these men are showing interest in sex, but when you show "interest in them", you are showing interest in a relationship. Those are completely different things. So it's really an apples/oranges situation: Him: "Hey baby, nice apples!!!" You: "OMG, he likes me! He really likes me!! I'll give him some of my oranges!!!" Him: "Ewww! Who wants oranges?!? Run! RUN!!!!" 4. I don't know who you doofuses are who pretend that men don't like to chase, but it's not true. I'm a man. I chase, I like it, and I'm good at it. #3, very well put. I tried to explain that but you did a much better job. It's much food for thought for me. Perhaps playing hard to get won't make some of the apple guys go away. But there are WAAAAYYYYYYY more apple guys than orange guys in this day and age. #4, right on. We all secretly know it's true.
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