Being hard to get - a double edged sword

[welikeincrowds]

My dad likes to go fishing. He's always talking about worms vs. minnows, which color lure to use, what time of day you should go out, why you shouldn't speak too loudly on the boat (he doesn't listen to his own advice on that one, unfortunately).

 

The thing is, my dad isn't a very good cook. He's caught plenty of fish, sure, but I don't think I can ever remember him cooking one for me, or ever. Actually, he says it's more humane to throw them back, but does he not realize how hard he just ****ing traumatized that animal? Anyway.

 

He knows a decent amount about fish I guess, but not much beyond what they sorta look like, and how big they are. Nothing about differences in taste, texture. Definitely nothing about their nature or habitat or mating cycles or the color of their eggs (or eating their eggs). So really, he doesn't know much about fish at all.

 

But, that's not why he fishes. He fishes because he likes the sport of it. It's not to say that he doesn't care about the fish, because he definitely does, earnestly so, he has a real passion for them. But I guess you could also say that he really doesn't care that much. He does it for light fun.

 

OK, so I'm about ready to end this overblown analogy.

 

No matter what, you're going to have to be fished out of the water. It doesn't matter what sort of fish or fisherman you are, that game is the same. And I get that the lure is mesmerizing -- and I get that there needs to be a lure, because no idiot is going to willingly put a ****ing hook in their mouths without some kind of charming incentive -- but the lure is only a brief and relatively unimportant part of it all, right?

 

If you want to become the centerpiece of a fantastic meal, where every detail of you has been considered, so that your very best essence has been expressed, to be fully consumed -- then you should be willing to put up with a worm from the grocery store, because what you really care about is whether your captor knows how to cook. But if you're after the thrill of fighting for your life with a bloody hook in your mouth, an exciting stint above water, and then a safe return to sea -- well then my dad would be perfect for you. In that case, feel free to look for the shiniest lure, because it probably belongs to my dad.

 

Well, used to. Now he wears Tevas with white socks. Dammit, dad.

Edited February 6, 2011 by welikeincrowds

[Jannah]

It is perfectly healthy and reasonable for you to set boundaries for yourself in the beginning stages of a relationship (i.e. dating).

 

That doesn't mean you purposely cancel dates, not be available for dates, etc. The only time you should be scaling it back, is if/when you've become emotionally invested and you are not sensing the same in return. At which point, you can reassess things and decide if it's worth mentioning to him, but that can often backfire because it will most likely put pressure on him. You can only "go with the flow" for so long, ya know?

 

Isn't dating fun??

[daphne]

You mentioned men love to chase. Several guys in this thread said they don't enjoy it, but do it because they have to, but you either ignored them or disregarded their opinion.

 

The reason I posted the link was to show that during dating many guys aren't comfortable in their skin at all and dating IS part of the chase. My point was that it isn't a universal truth at all that men like chasing. That's the only reason I attached that video, as supporting evidence.

 

So my actual point is that you might be misinterpreting those men liking the chase.

 

I don't remember if I ignored someone, but if it was Mad Max it's because I have him blocked and don't care what negative misogynistic things he has to say. Nothing to do with this post though. I just don't care for constant negativity.

 

Also, I don't like arguing on a forum so if someone has a different viewpoint, I'm not going to full on argue with them. They have a right to their opinion, I'm not going to change their mind.

 

I think I understand, somewhat about the why of that particular video. I didn't get the sense that they were all interested in her tho... Maybe they were nervous because of the cameras?

 

I can say that the proof is in the pudding. The men that continued to chase me beyond reason, didn't do so because they hated the chase.

[SmileFace]

welikeincrowds - I love that analogy.. wow - great

 

Even if you didn't say mad. It is still the same thing really.

[dispatch3d]

humm I mean part of the problem with this thread is it's a generalization. It's very very (if not impossibly) hard to solve a generalization. It's like saying why aren't people in the world happy. Well, yeah, good luck solving that haha. But you can make a serious effort to get other people happy.

 

I didn't really enjoy that video either. I feel like you also wasted 4 minutes of my life . It's okay though, I forgive you.

 

I'm very certain from this thread that guys DO NOT like chasing. Hell I've only ever heard of it from guys as "work". Haha I've definitely never heard a guy say "Yeah man, I just met this girl and she's great. I keep asking her out but she keeps flaking out, it's really awesome." Lol doesn't happen. The (a) noone got hurt (b) guys liked doing it anyways are both just rationalizations for your behaviour. Quite frankly, guys hate both of these.

 

One of the reasons I'm kinda bitter is because one of my female friends dropped a bit of a bomb. One of those PUA types (haha thanks guy) came by and hit on my friend. Frankly, I don't really care. Then he asks the standard orbiter question "Is there any guys you're great friends with, but you'd just never have sex with them". Of course she bit and decided to explain to me how "in love" I am with her and how she's just stringing me along and it's really cool. To say I'm offended is an understatement. Will I still be her friend? I don't know. I indicated I would be just so she wouldn't cry in the middle of the bar. But meh. I like being friends with people because we generally like each other. Not because they enjoy using me as a self esteem boost.

[daphne]

My dad likes to go fishing. He's always talking about worms vs. minnows, which color lure to use, what time of day you should go out, why you shouldn't speak too loudly on the boat (he doesn't listen to his own advice on that one, unfortunately).

 

The thing is, my dad isn't a very good cook. He's caught plenty of fish, sure, but I don't think I can ever remember him cooking one for me, or ever. Actually, he says it's more humane to throw them back, but does he not realize how hard he just ****ing traumatized that animal? Anyway.

 

:lmao: That was hysterical. I don't know if I'm being compared to your dad or not, or if all of us that have ever been more interested in teh chase than the catch (that means everyone alive) but it was a funny analogy.

 

I guess it hasn't occurred to me that I perhaps have hurt the guys, since no intimacy was shared. I guess from a female perspective, that's when it hurts the most. Perhaps from teh male perspective, continued pursuit without delivery of said intimacy hurts the most. Maybe?

[Nexus One]

I don't remember if I ignored someone, but if it was Mad Max it's because I have him blocked and don't care what negative misogynistic things he has to say. Nothing to do with this post though. I just don't care for constant negativity.

 

Aha ok, that partly explains it then.

 

I can say that the proof is in the pudding. The men that continued to chase me beyond reason, didn't do so because they hated the chase.

 

Good point. If it's rendering results (for you), then more power to you.

[daphne]

It is perfectly healthy and reasonable for you to set boundaries for yourself in the beginning stages of a relationship (i.e. dating).

 

That doesn't mean you purposely cancel dates, not be available for dates, etc. The only time you should be scaling it back, is if/when you've become emotionally invested and you are not sensing the same in return. At which point, you can reassess things and decide if it's worth mentioning to him, but that can often backfire because it will most likely put pressure on him. You can only "go with the flow" for so long, ya know?

 

Isn't dating fun??

 

You said it sister. lol

 

I don't flake on dates or play that kind of goofy game. It lacks integrity and just reeks of immaturity and insecurity.

[dispatch3d]

:lmao: That was hysterical. I don't know if I'm being compared to your dad or not, or if all of us that have ever been more interested in teh chase than the catch (that means everyone alive) but it was a funny analogy.

 

I guess it hasn't occurred to me that I perhaps have hurt the guys, since no intimacy was shared. I guess from a female perspective, that's when it hurts the most. Perhaps from teh male perspective, continued pursuit without delivery of said intimacy hurts the most. Maybe?

 

It depends on what their self esteem is like. If they have very low self esteem, and are totally fixated on you, it's going to prevent them from hitting on anyone else and eventually finding someone who is actually interested in dating. So yeah, it's damaging in that way.

 

I mean I personally don't get too close to girls who hit on me who I'm not interested in. I don't think it's nice or polite to string them along. The (very few) times I've strung girls along was never because I wasn't interested, it's usually because I'm pissed off at how bad the other girls are treating me. So meh. Hate breeds more hate most times.

[daphne]

Hate breeds more hate most times.

 

I reckon that's why people build defense mechanisms. And the reason that goofy expression "Don't hate teh player, hate the game" came about.

[Jannah]

You said it sister. lol

 

I don't flake on dates or play that kind of goofy game. It lacks integrity and just reeks of immaturity and insecurity.

 

Oh. Well then how do you define being hard to get? What you described in your initial post, it sounds like men are attracted to you, but you aren't dating any of them? So you have men who are attracted to you but you turn them down for dates, is that it?

[Lovelybird]

many women tend to lose themselves in a romantic relationship, that is what make relationship go downward.

 

And being hard to get is really to find something you are passionate about, and when a great man comes along, you don't lose yourself in the relationship, rather share your passion with him. when you put the man in your center of world, he lose interest. not good for both of you

[elastica]

Real men will not play silly games with women who play hard to get, period. But that is just my opinion.

 

I think as men get older, they will more likely run when they notice a single sign of game playing.

Of course there are exceptions, like if a man is totally clueless, and will say "she is playing sooo hard to get" when a woman is completely, totally not interested, i.e. she is not answering his calls/texts, she might even tell him she is not interested - still, the guy thinks she plays hard to get.

 

Women, of course, sometimes can get too shy, and some men might see this as playing hard to get, or, like Nexus said, some might think they are sipmly not interested. I am also very shy but believe that a person has to work on these things and take the initiative sometimes. Plus, playing hard to get leads nowhere. I have done it once when I was really young with a guy I really liked, because I wanted to torture him and wanted him to want me like crazy. The result was that he got together with somebody else. For some time I thought "right, but he still wants me like crazy, especially because he couldn't have me..." Right.

My point is that if you play hard to get, it does NOT add to the thrill. It is waaay more exciting when you decide to be completely frank all the time. In my experience men like truly that, and it kind of makes women hot in their eyes.

 

Daphne, I think, in your case, men who chase(d) you were not really interested in being with you. They needed something/somebody to play with. Your example about the guy who expressed his desire towards you in front of his wife - I don't think what he did was about you. I think it was about him.

[daphne]

Oh. Well then how do you define being hard to get? What you described in your initial post, it sounds like men are attracted to you, but you aren't dating any of them? So you have men who are attracted to you but you turn them down for dates, is that it?

 

Ah, I can see how since I tried to shorten an already lengthy post that some of the details are left out.

 

Many times these men were in the same social/business circles that pursued me. We were around each other, but I remained just distant enough to avoid dating them. We would be out in social settings together. I basically just tap danced around dating any but was still friendly. It wasn't that I was doing anything to lead them on. It was more that I didn't do anything to dissuade them from pursuing.

 

I didn't make plans with these guys and flake on them or anything like that. I just kept moving, and they moved with me.

[daphne]

many women tend to lose themselves in a romantic relationship, that is what make relationship go downward.

 

And being hard to get is really to find something you are passionate about, and when a great man comes along, you don't lose yourself in the relationship, rather share your passion with him. when you put the man in your center of world, he lose interest. not good for both of you

 

I agree. Well, it's one of many reasons a relationship can go bad.

 

I do have a lot of interests, however. I have a hard time making a man the center of my world. Not sure if they even want that though, do they?

[Mad Max]

I agree. Well, it's one of many reasons a relationship can go bad.

 

I do have a lot of interests, however. I have a hard time making a man the center of my world. Not sure if they even want that though, do they?

 

 

As long as you know to give space, I don't see the problem.

[welikeincrowds]

I guess it hasn't occurred to me that I perhaps have hurt the guys, since no intimacy was shared. I guess from a female perspective, that's when it hurts the most. Perhaps from teh male perspective, continued pursuit without delivery of said intimacy hurts the most. Maybe?

 

Sometimes, people "chase for the chase" out of aspiration. People think about the accomplishment (having sex with a beautiful person or whatever), and they get it in their heads that "I can do it." So they try with a particular person, and in the event that it doesn't work out, it goes one of two ways, depending on their mindset.

The first way is that they convince themselves that the value wasn't there after all ("Whatever bro, she's a bitch"). The second way is that they take it as a personal failing. Their ego is damaged, and they wonder what is wrong with them. From there, they might persist harder to prove to themselves they can do it. Or they might "get hurt" and go lick their wounds. But it's a self-inflicted wound, because it was about them all along. The other person wasn't ever there, really -- it was just about the ideal picture, the "accomplishment".

 

That's also why, in the event it does work out in the chaser's favor, that chaser is just going to become absent and/or leave. Because they got what they wanted and the accomplishment is over. No brainer stuff, right?

 

The problem is that a relationship isn't a thing to obtain, obviously. So it was a flawed setup to begin with, whether it "works" or "doesn't".

 

The reason these setups exist is because of "the attractive qualities": beauty and status. Those qualities are treasured commodities in our culture, and so you (not you specifically, daphne) want to own them -- ironically, so that you too can feel attractive. You own valuable things so your life is valuable, you are valuable. You and your empire. It's all about you.

 

Of course, that's a shallow way of looking at relationships. People aren't commodities, and it's not about just you.

 

I don't mean to say that this describes everyone who chases for the chase. Some people (my dad in my analogy) will chase because they earnestly enjoy it, as well as the others they meet in the process. They're not interested in committing, but they shouldn't be faulted for it. It's not like they're raping the seas for tuna and dolphins. Also these fish aren't stupid (nor is my dad that clever). They can tell a blatant lure when they see one. OK, seriously, I'm done talking about fishing now.

[tigressA]

Daphne, I think, in your case, men who chase(d) you were not really interested in being with you. They needed something/somebody to play with. Your example about the guy who expressed his desire towards you in front of his wife - I don't think what he did was about you. I think it was about him.

 

This is a good point. I think a lot of the chasing is about the ego stroke. It's about how it makes them feel to "capture a hard-won prize". It's like, "Hey, look what I'VE got now."

[daphne]

Daphne, I think, in your case, men who chase(d) you were not really interested in being with you. They needed something/somebody to play with. Your example about the guy who expressed his desire towards you in front of his wife - I don't think what he did was about you. I think it was about him.

 

I don't know that I agree with much that you posted. I think it was a little naive.

 

In terms of whether or not the guys were really interested, I seriously doubt they'd chase for years for no reason. They weren't looking to play. 2 of them married the very next woman they dated. I think cos I wore them out and they just wanted to settle down already.

 

Otherwise, as far as teh guy that made the comment in front of his wife. That very well maybe true. All I could think was that, while it was flattering in one sense, I was very glad he wasn't my husband because I would have walked out on him had he done that to me. It was rude and insensitive to her.

[hydorclops]

Whether it's something extreme like The Rules or PUA crap, playing hard to get is about power. It's about manipulating the other person so that you have power over them.

 

If they like you more than you like them, you can control them and the relationship. Congratulations, you're the winner.

 

But is a romantic relationship a zero sum game?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum

[Eddie Edirol]

So I'm at a loss. If you are always a challenge, you never let anyone in. You never have a relationship. You play a role and you know that the people that pursue you for it, will lose respect if you ever let your guard down. But if you're warm and emotionally available, you're not as highly prized.

 

bottom line, if you dont play hard to get with the guys you want to date, it will me MUCH easier and faster to weed out the guys who dont want something meaningful. They will always play their hands quickly when they want something quickly. Theres plenety of ways to see who is actually interested in you as a person, and who is only interested in a quick lay.

 

I know for sure I dont appreciate a challenge when I want a relationship with a woman, I like my women warm and emotionally available. You dont have to let your guard down, just watch the mans behavior is all.

[Mad Max]

Whether it's something extreme like The Rules or PUA crap, playing hard to get is about power. It's about manipulating the other person so that you have power over them.

 

If they like you more than you like them, you can control them and the relationship. Congratulations, you're the winner.

 

But is a romantic relationship a zero sum game?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum

 

 

Perfectly said. And if the other person takes off, it means you can't control them and the person playing hard to get can't stand that.

[Lovelybird]

Anyway, no matter what motivation behind the hard-to-get, most men are triggered by that, even they deny that. It is in the nature. some of those men may not have the ability to get close to a woman. and you choose them for a reason

[elastica]

I don't know that I agree with much that you posted. I think it was a little naive.

 

In terms of whether or not the guys were really interested, I seriously doubt they'd chase for years for no reason. They weren't looking to play. 2 of them married the very next woman they dated. I think cos I wore them out and they just wanted to settle down already.

 

Otherwise, as far as teh guy that made the comment in front of his wife. That very well maybe true. All I could think was that, while it was flattering in one sense, I was very glad he wasn't my husband because I would have walked out on him had he done that to me. It was rude and insensitive to her.

 

Daphne, do you actually believe they chased you for you?

They chased because of the chase.

 

If I remember correctly, you mentioned that once you became interested in a guy, you had to realize he didn't want anything from you.

[daphne]

Sometimes, people "chase for the chase" out of aspiration. People think about the accomplishment (having sex with a beautiful person or whatever), and they get it in their heads that "I can do it." So they try with a particular person, and in the event that it doesn't work out, it goes one of two ways, depending on their mindset.

The first way is that they convince themselves that the value wasn't there after all ("Whatever bro, she's a bitch"). The second way is that they take it as a personal failing. Their ego is damaged, and they wonder what is wrong with them. From there, they might persist harder to prove to themselves they can do it. Or they might "get hurt" and go lick their wounds. But it's a self-inflicted wound, because it was about them all along. The other person wasn't ever there, really -- it was just about the ideal picture, the "accomplishment".

 

Welike,

 

You're a pretty analytical guy (gal?.) I enjoy reading your stuff. It makes me realize part of my need to remain somewhat aloof is knowing that most men are chasing out of a need for the trophy lay/gf/wife. I'm nobody's trophy. And I don't like being pigeon holed, when I have a lot more to offer. So partially, I'm just trying to weed out the pretenders to get to the sincere guys.

 

Sometimes these guys come onto me full guns blazing, and I have to pull back and see what their motivations are. But all women should be paying attention, because a lot of guys really aren't that sincere.