Woggle Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 A coworker of mine went through a nasty divorce a couple years ago. It was a typical walkaway wife situation where she didn't want to be married anymore after an affair and blamed him for everything. In the end he got evertything including full custody of the kids and she ended up having to pay him child support. He got the house, the kids and pretty much everything. A few years ago this would have been unheard of but he told me that judges are becoming less and less tolerant of this type of thing. They are increasingly hesitant to reward a women for tearing apart the family for no good reason whatsoever. Does anybody else have experience with this?
Eeyore79 Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I think courts are still reluctant to take children away from the woman who gave birth to them, especially if she's the primary caregiver. They usually argue that whether she's a good wife has nothing to do with whether she's a good mother.
niptuckfan Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Actually, the courts are becoming more and more aware of certain "social" situations such as Parental Alienation, False Domestic Abuse allegations and Hostile Parenting Syndrome....I know...all fancy names for things that Ex's do to each other to strategize for positioning within the courts. But you have to look at the fact that many of the judges that once only looked at the womans perspective have become old and have retired and many of the new judges were once lawyers who had clients that were treated unfairly. These younger judges have a better insight into the "games" that have been played in the past by parents/partners heading off to court. There is also the aspect where the courts have introduced Mediation into the mix and also court ordered Parenting Courses that educate parents/partners about the effects of the "games" on children and immediate families. I do beleive that the court system is fairer (at least in my province) to all parties involved and that now they really look at what is in the best interests of the children....hey...if its a man and a woman fighting over the house, the cars and retirement funds...they tend to quickly just split the value and be done! Just my two cents....
UofLCards Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I sure hope so. I am in the middle of a custody battle right now with my SO. My story is a little different though as she was/is a total wreck. She has 2 DUI's in the past 2 years, 2 Public Intoxications, and was put in rehab over a methadone addiction. She also was cheating on me with a man that beat her alot and put her hands on her. She brought this same guy around our kids while I was at work. Our firsr hearing was on Jan. 4th and I was awarded temp. custody. She still hasnt had any visitations as she was ordered to take a alcohol screen before she could see the kids which she has not been to take yet. I'm just ready for all this to go away and be over with. My kids need a stable home, and living with her is not it.
niptuckfan Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Well I am sorry to hear of your troubles. The courts definately look at the parents behaviour and it is your job to protect and nurture your children, more so now that there mother cannot. If she is self absorbed right now, you may have the opportunity to just get your papers in order and she may just disappear from her childrens lives...ya never know.
tinktronik Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 It's really a state-by-state issue. Many states push for 50/50 parenting now.
Soxfaninfl Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) My stbx agreed to 50/50 visitation when we separated 11 months ago. After she met with her lawyer, she changed her mind. She wanted for me to see our 7 year old son every other weekend. I flat out refused to this visitation. I have my son 7 days on and 7 days off(Monday to Monday). She said that the judges usually side with the mother, and that she would get the visitation that she wants. I was worried that this would happen, but I have been assured that this won't happen as courts now want parents to have equal time. She is the one that wanted the divorce. I didn't want to put our son through this. Edited February 5, 2011 by Soxfaninfl
Author Woggle Posted February 5, 2011 Author Posted February 5, 2011 My stbx agreed to 50/50 visitation when we separated 11 months ago. After she met with her lawyer, she changed her mind. She wanted for me to see our 7 year old son every other weekend. I flat out refused to this visitation. I have my son 7 days on and 7 days off(Monday to Monday). She said that the judges usually side with the mother, and that she would get the visitation that she wants. I was worried that this would happen, but I have been assured that this won't happen as courts now want parents to have equal time. She is the one that wanted the divorce. I didn't want to put our son through this. The courts usually do but I guess more and more they are seeing that things are not so one sided. The irony is that from what I hear female judges are the fairest towards. While a man will fall for the helpless victim act because it brings out the gentlemen instinct a woman who worked hard to be a judge tends to be disgusted by it because it makes women look bad.
Albertan Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Custody has got nothing to do with who did what to cause the divorce. Most courts no matter where you are have guidelines stating that prior actions should have no impact unless it causes a danger to the children (such as addictions). Historically, women were awarded custody almost exclusively because they left their jobs, raised the children and supported the husband. Too many guys walked away in the past leaving mother and child without worry about the consequences. Hence now we have child support, spousal support and all manner of legal systems to chase down dead beat dads. In today's world though things are different. More and more men are likely to become what is deemed the "primary caregiver" as the woman pursues the career. It is very common now for both parents to have jobs and both to have solid relationships with their children. Courts in the US, Canada, UK all recognize this and actively encourage 50/50 custody and the entire legal system is geared this way now from what I can see. That said, if and when it goes to court and a judge has to decide then they will look at several aspects such as a) who is and was primary caregiver and b) who can provide the "better" (very subjective) life for the child or children. What of course this leads to is often a bitter battle between parents to 'prove' they are the better parent. Usually this is driven by the emotional factor of wanting to punish your ex, wanting to take the children and financially as the parent deemed "primary" is often also awarded child support. Sadly there really isn't a winner in these types of battles and the person most hurt is the kids. There is no guarantee either way what a judge will decide and if you let it get that far you are essentially rolling the dice on how much, if at all custody you will get.
Albertan Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Also wanted to add..... There is an interesting Hollywood story right now with Halle Berry and her ex H Gabriel Aubry. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out but from the few details I have read about it seems she is intent on a character assassination of Gabriel and of course their daughter is being caught in the cross fire. My initial feeling is that she is not doing herself any favors right now.
Soxfaninfl Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) I'm offering the house to my stbx as a deal to not fight me to change the visitation that we have of one week on and one week off(I'm offering to leave my name on the mortgage since we have negative equity and save our credit so we don't have to short sale). She wants to change the visitation(I know she wants more money after speaking with her lawyer) because our son has different expectations when he is with her and different expectations when he is with me. That's the best reason that she can come up with. I am very responsible person and take my son to church when he is with me. My work schedule is more flexible than hers, and we acctually work for the same company, so we exchange his things every Monday in the parking lot. I plan to get an apartment(living with my parents right now) near my sons school to ensure the 50/50 visitation is kept also. I don't think a judge would change the visitation after we have had a set one for almost a year that gives both parents equal time. That would be disruptive to the child IMO to change the visitation. He is doing well, and we stop taking him to counseling per our counselor. We live in Florida. She wants the divorce because she's not in love with me anymore. I tried everything to save the marriage, but she refused all of my attempts. I suggested counseling, but she quit that after two sessions. Edited February 6, 2011 by Soxfaninfl
UofLCards Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Is it frowned upon to ask your ex for some kind of argeement in regards to custody of the kids? Reason I ask is my SO has alot of court costs and fines she needs payed or she could be looking at jail time in the future. She also doesnt have a job and cant afford to take care of herself. Would the judge look negative upon me asking my SO to sign the kids over to me if I helped her with finances and/or payed her fines and cort costs? Im just looking out for the best interest of my children. They need to be in my custody instead of hers. If you guys could give.me advice or point me in the right direction of somewhere on the net I could look for advice it would be appreciated. This custody stuff is all new to me.
sally4sara Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Is it frowned upon to ask your ex for some kind of argeement in regards to custody of the kids? Reason I ask is my SO has alot of court costs and fines she needs payed or she could be looking at jail time in the future. She also doesnt have a job and cant afford to take care of herself. Would the judge look negative upon me asking my SO to sign the kids over to me if I helped her with finances and/or payed her fines and cort costs? Im just looking out for the best interest of my children. They need to be in my custody instead of hers. If you guys could give.me advice or point me in the right direction of somewhere on the net I could look for advice it would be appreciated. This custody stuff is all new to me. Most of the custody law sites are easily googled but the info you will find tends to only bring about more questions. Seek the advise of a lawyer but do not discard your moral compass to their desire to win at any cost. There is no going back and erasing who you had kids with, trust me, I remember wishing I could eliminate the threat of my son's father. Its just not possible. A kid is born and who its parents are is just part of their lot in life. It can only be managed, not removed, by the parent most fit to support them through their life's circumstances. Try to be the best support you can be rather than seeking to eliminate entirely the lack you see in the other parent. Someone who isn't fit now is not doomed to be unfit forever. If you allow for the possibility of them changing and becoming better, is it not to your kid's benefit if they improve? Seek the custody arrangement the current situation calls for but be willing to alter it as the situation changes.
UofLCards Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Most of the custody law sites are easily googled but the info you will find tends to only bring about more questions. Seek the advise of a lawyer but do not discard your moral compass to their desire to win at any cost. There is no going back and erasing who you had kids with, trust me, I remember wishing I could eliminate the threat of my son's father. Its just not possible. A kid is born and who its parents are is just part of their lot in life. It can only be managed, not removed, by the parent most fit to support them through their life's circumstances. Try to be the best support you can be rather than seeking to eliminate entirely the lack you see in the other parent. Someone who isn't fit now is not doomed to be unfit forever. If you allow for the possibility of them changing and becoming better, is it not to your kid's benefit if they improve? Seek the custody arrangement the current situation calls for but be willing to alter it as the situation changes. Thanks for the response. I do have a lawyer for this case. I have temp. Custody at the moment. My SO hasnt actually seen the kids since before she went to rehab for methadone in December. Check back on my past posts if you are looking for my full story. Again any help you guys can point me to is appreciated.
Albertan Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 UofL - Only a lawyer in your state is going to be able to give you the answers you need on this one. What I can tell you though is a lot of people organize their own custody arrangements and separation agreements with ex's during a divorce. By the time anything gets to a court, a judge is likely to see what the "norm" has been since the split and make a decision based on what they believe is the best interests of a child. What you're suggesting though could be construed as blackmail the way I read it. Financial support in return for signing over full custody? I'm not saying you are wrong but if she is an addict then she could later claim her judgment was impaired(?). Based on what you say, I would find it unlikely that any court would award custody to your ex at any rate, more likely it would be a visitation rights (even supervised with the drug history). SoxFan - If you and your ex have had 50/50 custody since the split and that is working for both of you and your son, I believe it would be unlikely that a Judge would change that. Again, you're going to need actual legal advice based on your states laws. Can't say this enough though - who caused the split and the reasons why are irrelevant. Also, if you both have a system that is working for you - why even bother getting as far as court? Do you really want someone else making a decision for you, a Judge who does not know either of your and makes a decisions based on a few words and reports? If you and your ex can find a system that works, and it is not always easy, then go with it. Going to court in my mind should only be the last resort.
UofLCards Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 UofL - Only a lawyer in your state is going to be able to give you the answers you need on this one. What I can tell you though is a lot of people organize their own custody arrangements and separation agreements with ex's during a divorce. By the time anything gets to a court, a judge is likely to see what the "norm" has been since the split and make a decision based on what they believe is the best interests of a child. What you're suggesting though could be construed as blackmail the way I read it. Financial support in return for signing over full custody? I'm not saying you are wrong but if she is an addict then she could later claim her judgment was impaired(?). Based on what you say, I would find it unlikely that any court would award custody to your ex at any rate, more likely it would be a visitation rights (even supervised with the drug history). I'm not trying to blackmail her. That is not my intention. I just dont want to see her struggle. Even though we are split up and not together I still care for her. With this option it would be what is best for HER and what is best for the KIDS. If this would be taken as blackmail then I would not want any part of it. Like I did say, she has not seen the kids since before she went to rehab back in very early December. She then didnt finish rehab and came home claiming that she was kicked out of the rehab for fighting. Then in court she denyed she was actually kicked out of the rehab. She was told by the judge before she could get supervised visitations that she would have to take and pass a drug/alcohol screen which she has not even been to take yet. The hearing was on January 4th. It's now been over 1 month. She has 2 DUI's and 2 Public Intoxications on her record. My concern is that she gets drunk and puts the kids in the car and takes the chance of having a wreck while intoxicated. I have been told many of times that I will more than likely be awarded custody based on her criminal record alone. And now I have status quo since they have been in my custody every second since the split in mid-December. I just worry about my kids safety when they would be in her care.
Soxfaninfl Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 SoxFan - If you and your ex have had 50/50 custody since the split and that is working for both of you and your son, I believe it would be unlikely that a Judge would change that. Again, you're going to need actual legal advice based on your states laws. Can't say this enough though - who caused the split and the reasons why are irrelevant. Also, if you both have a system that is working for you - why even bother getting as far as court? Do you really want someone else making a decision for you, a Judge who does not know either of your and makes a decisions based on a few words and reports? If you and your ex can find a system that works, and it is not always easy, then go with it. Going to court in my mind should only be the last resort. She agreed to one week on one week off after we separated, but she changed her mind after she met with her lawyer months ago. She suggested we try that I only see him every other weekend, and I refused. She then said that a judge will change it her favor, and judges ussually sides with the women. I said don't want to change it(my counselor suggested this visitation), so what choice do I have? I have to hope that a judge won't change it since she won't be fair with me. My lawyer said that the longer we have the visitation that we have the less likely a judge will change it.
Albertan Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 She then said that a judge will change it her favor, and judges ussually sides with the women. This is BS, perpetuated by movies, books and good old stereotypes. Yes, once this was true but it definitely no longer is. Just look at UofL's story, you're telling me the court are going to side with the mother? Long gone are the days where courts automatically gave custody of a child to a woman. Historically 100 years ago, if parents split up (as rare as it was those days) it was the men who got the kids - always. The pendulum has swung far both ways and now is finding a equilibrium. If you look at law courts across US and Canada the common theme is that they don't want to rock the status quo of the child. So they will definitely look at what has been the norm since the split and depending on circumstances they are unlikely to change it. Each persons/couples situation is unique though. So yes, if she is now only allowing your "visitation" on weekends, you need this to change pronto. You have a couple of options. What documentation do you have to show you agreed 50/50? Emails, texts, sign documents? Anything? A parent who denies visitation for no good reason (violence, drugs aside) is going to have problems in court as this does not reflect good on them. There are guidelines in some places that state that this is actually a factor in not granting custody to that parent. You need to document everything and pull anything from past you have. What do you think her motivation is in changing the custody agreement? One option could be to apply for a full custody order. I'd go for a child support order as well. It will never be granted but that's not the point. The end game is to get the court to immediately grant you access to your children. I say this though without knowing your states laws and what your history is with your ex. Moving out of the marital home was a mistake but her using the children as pawns is also a mistake. One last thing here - lawyers want to get paid. They will and do play on peoples fears and emotions to drag these kinds of things out and ensure a bigger payday. Not all lawyers are like this but sadly there are plenty out there. You want to find a fair and knowledgeable lawyer, you need to be 100% honest with them and you need to not be in the mindset of "winning" but coming to a satisfactory conclusion for everyone, especially your children.
Author Woggle Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 It really depends on the judge you get. Some do side with the woman but others have grown tired of the poor little victim act and are much fairer.
Albertan Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I'm not trying to blackmail her. That is not my intention. I just dont want to see her struggle. Even though we are split up and not together I still care for her. With this option it would be what is best for HER and what is best for the KIDS. If this would be taken as blackmail then I would not want any part of it. Like I did say, she has not seen the kids since before she went to rehab back in very early December. She then didnt finish rehab and came home claiming that she was kicked out of the rehab for fighting. Then in court she denyed she was actually kicked out of the rehab. She was told by the judge before she could get supervised visitations that she would have to take and pass a drug/alcohol screen which she has not even been to take yet. The hearing was on January 4th. It's now been over 1 month. She has 2 DUI's and 2 Public Intoxications on her record. My concern is that she gets drunk and puts the kids in the car and takes the chance of having a wreck while intoxicated. I have been told many of times that I will more than likely be awarded custody based on her criminal record alone. And now I have status quo since they have been in my custody every second since the split in mid-December. I just worry about my kids safety when they would be in her care. Honestly mate, I applaud you for even considering helping her financially and emotionally through all this. I didn't read all your background stuff but I am going to now. I totally understand where you are coming from and not for one second do I actually think you are trying to blackmail her. What I can see though is some slimy lawyer somewhere down the line making this claim. As I said to SoxFan, there are plenty of lawyers out there who make a living on preying on peoples emotions during custody battles. So, I guess my advice is to tread carefully and protect yourself and your kids first before you do anything for her. That said I think you would probably be best off applying for a full custody order through the legal system rather than seeking her to "sign the kids over". As you already have full custody and with her personal issues it may well be granted immediately. In addition, it would seem that she would only likely be granted supervised visitation at the moment if has been coming up to two months she has seen the kids and has a history with drugs and alcohol.
UofLCards Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 This is BS, perpetuated by movies, books and good old stereotypes. Yes, once this was true but it definitely no longer is. Just look at UofL's story, you're telling me the court are going to side with the mother? I sure hope not! Again, Albertan, thanks for your replies and include me and my kids in your prayers.
Soxfaninfl Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 You have a couple of options. What documentation do you have to show you agreed 50/50? Emails, texts, sign documents? Anything? A parent who denies visitation for no good reason (violence, drugs aside) is going to have problems in court as this does not reflect good on them. There are guidelines in some places that state that this is actually a factor in not granting custody to that parent. You need to document everything and pull anything from past you have. What do you think her motivation is in changing the custody agreement? I have emails of me proposing the visitation back in July of 2010. I actually proposed a few different visitations, she preferred one week on and one week off. There is no drugs, alcohol, physical or verbal abuse issues on my part, and she does not have those issue also. She does however take pain pills for a medical issues that she has had for the last four years, but she has told me that she has gotten off those pills, and only takes aleve now for the pain. She said that it would be better for our son to be with her most of the time during the school year, and I could have him every other week during the summer months, but I refused. She also said that our son will have different expectations when he is with her and different expectations when he is with me. She change her mind about the visitation after she met with her lawyer. I told her I will not change the visitation schedule that we have. It's better to keep him on the one that he's been for quite some time now. She won't budge neither will I, so we will have to have a judge settle it. I will not budge on less than 50% time with my son. I didn't want the divorce in the first place and did not want to put my son through a divorce. She also quite counseling after two sessions.She hasn't said this, but I feel that her motivation is money. She will get more child support if she has him more time than 50% of the time. I make 10k more than she does a year, so I will have to pay her child support regardless if I have him 50% of the time. Most lawyers push this on women to get more child support if they have them more time than the husband.
Albertan Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 but I feel that her motivation is money This is probably correct. Have you discussed child support with her and what her expectations would be? Again, if this is something you can agree on without getting the courts involved it would be better for all involved. Her view that your son would be better off with her is outdated - again, is there a specific reason for this? Such as more stability, you dating someone else or anything? I gotta tell you, leaving the marital home was a big mistake and you need to get out of your parents place ASAP and into something with room and space for your son. You will need all the things that your son needs and expects, proper bed, clothing, toys, whatever. This will be important as proving you can and want to provide for him is going to be looked at by the courts. All I can really say without knowing details, and from my limited knowledge or various States laws is what I said before. Most courts nowadays actively encourage "shared custody" between both parents. She is not helping her case by refusing access to your son but you are not either by not getting yourself set up in your own home. They are going to look at what happened in the past, who spent most time with your son, who took him to doctors appointments, who arranged schooling etc and who is providing for your son now. You've mentioned that your work schedule is more flexible etc... you need to make this work for you and ensure you spend that time with your son. You really need to get your lawyer to find out what your options are with having you son 50/50 now. If she previously agreed and you were doing this and she has since changed her mind you may well have recourse to have the police with you when you pick up your son. Again, just depends on what the laws are in your state. Really wish I could be more help as I know how heart breaking it is and how emotionally & financially draining it is to be battling over custody.
Recommended Posts