Author Hurtbunny Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 Girls really dig that? I should buy myself a new acoustic guitar then, as my current one is broken. haha, made me laugh. I just don't get it though, I mean he's got a profile up on match.com saying he wants to settle down and find the right one, blah blah. Maybe he is just saying that and actually wants to play the field, I dunno. I know a lot of men treat OD as a joke. The fact he text me 5 weeks after I (somewhat harshly) nexted him shows that he hasn't forgotten about me. I agree that texting is cheap though - and maybe he was just checking in to see if he still 'can get me to reply' - no intent of meeting up again.. Now, as he realises I'm NOT interested (NO REPLY at all) his interest will probably pique - or diminish completely - depending on how much 'better' i am than the current potentials he is assessing. I still maintain that if I am head and shoulders above all of the girls he is juggling on match.com (and IRL) then he won't give up so easily. I don't think men do give up easily when they see a good thing. Am I right? In conclusion: If I am much better option than ALL of the potentials he is speaking to on match.com and other places, he will not give up this easily. If I am not then I probably won't hear from him again.
zengirl Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 I think it sounds like a lame situation on both sides, frankly. He didn't ask you out, but he kept texting you, and you didn't ask him out either. I asked my BF out first and loads of the guys I've dated. Frankly, it often works out better that way. Sitting around, texting a guy, waiting for him to ask you out is a terrible position to be in. No idea what this guy's agenda is, but I know plenty of guys (my BF included) who have to be hit on the head, so to speak, in order to get the hint. So waiting for those type of guys to "get the hint" is not going to work. And those guys are often the BEST guys to date. Judging a guy's worth as a BF by his "game" in the first stages is pretty useless since the two skills are largley unrelated. Of course, this guy also sounds a bit odd in your story. And at this point there's too much waiting, pressure, and resentment to do much else other than stop texting! Geez. But next time you like a guy, I suggest you do at least the girl version of asking him out ("We should grab coffee sometime soon. Text me when you're free." or whatever). Any guy that doesn't give a firm time and place after you say it plainly is not interested --- plainly is something that says I WANT TO SEE YOU (and by plainly I mean, using those words, and suggesting an activity, but no all-caps. That was just for emphasis.) Plainly isn't "I have no plans" or "What are your plans?" or "My friends and I will be at such-and-such." Those are all hints. Hints lead to confusion and games and nowhere good.
Author Hurtbunny Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 Your post was spot on, it made a lot of sense to me. Thankyou. I completely agree with a lot of what you say - my best friends bf took a year and a half to ask her out - and he is one of the best guys you could meet. I do think guys are clueless a lot of the time, I'm on the fence about how clueless he was about *this* though. I get that I didn't 'BAT him over the head with it' - but I did everything but. I said to him a number of times to come and see me on my own or with friends (less pressure than a date) but no, I never invited him to meet up with me on a 'date' - it would make me feel pretty crappy to do so. I find the idea of asking a guy out for coffee cringeworhty. Maybe I need to change my attitude. L has said to me (my best friend) that even though she liked her bf from the start and knew he was chronically shy, there is no way in hell she would have asked him out because thats just the way it goes. They've been together 5 years now. I pretty much feel the same as her. If I asked him out for coffee and he accepted, I would always wonder whether he had said yes because it was offered to him rather than he REALLY wanted to meet up with me. Wouldn't you have the same dilemma? The more you want something, the more you go out of your comfort zone to get it. Even if he had incredibly low self esteem and hates asking girls out, there will come a time when the girl in question is too good an opportunity to pass up. I mean, ask your boyfriend if he would have just passed you up had you not asked him out for coffee. I don't think he would have just forgotten about you. And if your entire relationship now hinges on the fact you took the initiative and asked him out (or it wouldn't have happened) then it doesn't bode well for there will come a time when he will meet someone who he WOULD drop out of his comfort zone for. In the couples I know the guys never had ANY problem in asking the girl for a coffee or a drink, no matter how shy they were. They aren't stupid - they know thats the convention, they know thats what we expect, and they know that even if they don't like it thats what they have to do to get the girl they want.
Author Hurtbunny Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 Of course, this guy also sounds a bit odd in your story. And at this point there's too much waiting, pressure, and resentment to do much else other than stop texting! Geez. But next time you like a guy, I suggest you do at least the girl version of asking him out ("We should grab coffee sometime soon. Text me when you're free." or whatever). Any guy that doesn't give a firm time and place after you say it plainly is not interested --- plainly is something that says I WANT TO SEE YOU (and by plainly I mean, using those words, and suggesting an activity, but no all-caps. That was just for emphasis.) Plainly isn't "I have no plans" or "What are your plans?" or "My friends and I will be at such-and-such." Those are all hints. Hints lead to confusion and games and nowhere good. Some real wisdom there. I really appreciate your point about setting up concrete plans. So I guess it boils down to my views on men vs women. I don't think women should do the asking out. I maintain that when a guys interest in you is high enough - you don't even need to give him 'hints' to get him to ask you out. Just EXISTING is good enough. We've all been asked out on a date by someone who barely knows anything about us. The interest is high already. So IMO I went as far as I was prepared to go. What kind of self respecting woman has to suggest a time and place for a date in order to get a grown man to meet her? I'm not the elephant woman - people tell me I'm very attractive, intelligent, ambitious, career focused, good sense of humour. Should it be this hard to establish something?? I'm aware that I am playing into age old gender stereotypes here but I do believe in them.
Author Hurtbunny Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 I did say it would be nice to meet him in person, after the night he flaked out of meeting me when I was out with friends. He didn't acknowledge what I had said at all, made no mention of it, and instead continued to text me multiple times the following day about nothing in particular.
Author Hurtbunny Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 ..the whole 'dropping by his flat thing' is seeming more and more weird/suspicious now I come to think about it. How many shy guys do YOU know that will invite you over to their flat at 9.30pm at night? But won't take initiative and ask you out for a coffee or drink?? It completely ruined his whole approach for me. What if I HAD gone around? Would he have tried it on? Was he just lonely? IMO from that point on I had been demoted from LTR material to FB/ casual dating material. There is no way in hell a guy would risk alienating a woman like that if he genuinely saw her as relationship material. He would keep his mouth shut, pleasure himself for the night if thats what was bugging him and ask said woman out for dinner the following week. Who is with me?
zengirl Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 If I asked him out for coffee and he accepted, I would always wonder whether he had said yes because it was offered to him rather than he REALLY wanted to meet up with me. Wouldn't you have the same dilemma? No, I really wouldn't. I do always try to do said asking in a soft/yin way, because I just find that flow more appealing. (By which I mean: Yin/feminine: Hey, we should really grab coffee sometime. Call me when you're free! Yang/masculine: Hey, let's get coffee next Tuesday. Does 6 work for you?) It also allows the man to do some of the asking. He can still say, "Are you free next Tuesday?" Or, in the case of my BF, who I did ask to coffee, he can up the ante ("I call your coffee, and I raise you. . . dinner") and ask for something more serious, like dinner, which is what my BF did. I like that part because men get a boost of testosterone -- which helps fend off depression in men and makes their brain chemicals work nicely -- from even that part of the asking. So, there is some benefit to letting them do some of the work. But I see no reason why I cannot suggest coffee. The more you want something, the more you go out of your comfort zone to get it. Even if he had incredibly low self esteem and hates asking girls out, there will come a time when the girl in question is too good an opportunity to pass up. Well, with most people, there will be a time where he is frustrated enough, he comes out of his comfort zone, but I don't really think it reflects on the worthiness of the gal. I think at that point you're leaving it up to luck and timing. Which is fine. But you are also staying inside YOUR comfort zone while judging others for doing the same. Just know that. Some real wisdom there. I really appreciate your point about setting up concrete plans. So I guess it boils down to my views on men vs women. I don't think women should do the asking out. I don't care whether that view is right or wrong. All that matters is if it is serving you well. If it's serving you well, keep it. The view wouldn't serve me well. I am happier without it. Just me. I maintain that when a guys interest in you is high enough - you don't even need to give him 'hints' to get him to ask you out. Just EXISTING is good enough. We've all been asked out on a date by someone who barely knows anything about us. The interest is high already. See, I don't see that as a high interest, really. That's just a guy who asks a lot of girls out. If he doesn't know anything about you, how can he be highly interested in you? Naw. He just is highly interested in asking women out. That's what I mean about "game" not translating into "good boyfriend" all the time. So IMO I went as far as I was prepared to go. What kind of self respecting woman has to suggest a time and place for a date in order to get a grown man to meet her? I'm not the elephant woman - people tell me I'm very attractive, intelligent, ambitious, career focused, good sense of humour. Should it be this hard to establish something?? I'm pretty fantastic, and I would not feel it would impede my self respect to do the time/place even. I haven't lately, because I feel that's a bit "yang"ish, I guess, and not as productive, as going about it the soft way. Though my soft way is assertive to you. So, everyone has different views. However, I don't think it impedes self respect or should be a source of shame to assert what you want, regardless of gender. I'm attractive, witty, smart, educated, successful, and I've asked guys out. To me, waiting around for some guy to make a move would be stressful, silly, and annoying. So. . . I don't. I'm not saying you should adopt my view, but to make it a matter of self-respect or worth is strange to me. You're making it much more emotionally charged than it needs to be. Anyway, as I say above: Keep the views that work for you. If your gender stereotyping here works for you, keep it. Everybody is different.
zengirl Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 ..the whole 'dropping by his flat thing' is seeming more and more weird/suspicious now I come to think about it. However, in this particular case, I agree with this. Which is why I said this guy didn't sound so great anyway. If a guy I've not been out with asks me to drop by his flat, I'd write him off too.
Author Hurtbunny Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 Yin/feminine: Hey, we should really grab coffee sometime. Call me when you're free! Yang/masculine: Hey, let's get coffee next Tuesday. Does 6 work for you?) It also allows the man to do some of the asking. He can still say, "Are you free next Tuesday?" Or, in the case of my BF, who I did ask to coffee, he can up the ante ("I call your coffee, and I raise you. . . dinner") and ask for something more serious, like dinner, which is what my BF did. I like that part because men get a boost of testosterone -- which helps fend off depression in men and makes their brain chemicals work nicely -- from even that part of the asking. So, there is some benefit to letting them do some of the work. But I see no reason why I cannot suggest coffee. I really like this approach - ying/yang. I guess in this sense you have convinced me to suggest meeting up for a coffee date - depending on the guy concerned. There would still be some cases where I wouldn't even do that, though. But you are also staying inside YOUR comfort zone while judging others for doing the same. Just know that. Oh yeah I probably am but I think there is a different kind of comfort zone for men/women. A man asking a woman out is always more accepted than the other way around. Point taken though - regardless of gender steroptyping - I am still staying in my comfort zone. I need to work on this. I don't care whether that view is right or wrong. All that matters is if it is serving you well. If it's serving you well, keep it. The view wouldn't serve me well. I am happier without it. Just me. Again, great point. This approach doesn't seem to be serving me particularly well. (The not asking out). I could test this theory out by asking a guy out (just once) to see if it makes me feel as bad as I think it will. And what happens, and whether he judges me negatively because of that etc. As we've discussed though, I think it is the end of the road for this particular guy. If he tried a third time I guess I would cut him some slack but my feeling is he would just continue to text me with no meet up date. I never assume people want more than they have shown that they want. I said I would like to see him in the day time and meet up in person. He is happy to text me non stop and was happy to invite me over at 9.30 at night Regardless of whether he wants a LTR or not, he hasn't made this known or clear to me at any point. He did say he was sorry and that he hadn't realised he had had many chances, but realistically? he knew. He just wasn't going to pursue me IRL at that time. Could be a whole host of reasons, but I'm not going to think about that. Zengirl - in the future I will adopt your approach with a new guy and report back to you on what happens. Thanks x
Author Hurtbunny Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 I just asked a <new> guy out for coffee, to see what kind of reaction I get. In a very yingy, feminine kind of way as the OP suggested. Remember this feels like pulling teeth out to me, but we'll see. I don't want to be one of those people that whines on about something they aren't prepared to change.
Author Hurtbunny Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 New guy is every bit as eligible as old guy, in terms of education, job, life prospects and attractiveness, just lives a further distance away. (But from next year I might be moving somewhere closer to him.) I just want to test the theory out though. Old guy has some trumped up stuff on his dating prof about places he's visited + stuff to do with his job but new guy has much more life experience and isn't a show off. He's also really cute. I'm pretty much over the old guy now, unless he shocks me with a third attempt that CLEARLY defines a meet up, and even then I'm 50/50 on whether I would say yes. Why bother when there are other fish in the sea? I feel more empowered that I am moving on and learning from previous experiences rather than simply ruminating over them.
dispatch3d Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 I don't do right or wrong. I think being more open with what you are looking for earlier on would have been a good idea.
Author Hurtbunny Posted March 28, 2011 Author Posted March 28, 2011 But wouldn't that have killed the flow of the convo a little bit. (scared him away.)
Author Hurtbunny Posted March 29, 2011 Author Posted March 29, 2011 New guy has been very receptive to meeting up with me so far, although the distance makes it difficult. We've added each other on skype and plan to talk on there. I have a feeling this one is special; he reminds me more of my dad (who is absolutely fantastic) as opposed to the old guy who reminds me of my ex (who is a scumbag.) H x
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