What_Next Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 You've made the right decision. Only you know in your heart whether or not you can forgive. That decision has to come from within.
Author Lance22 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 well the first reaction is obviously to run. thats why we went to counselling first and I took some time to think but upon reflection I cannot within myself forgive such an extreme discretion. it will be a big upheaval for everyone but I cannot see any other way to be happy in myself.
jthorne Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 I'd like to ask the forum for some advice as there seems to be a lot of experience here. Here's the story. My partner and I have been together for 16 yrs. Over the past yr or 2 things have been getting a little rocky. Recently I got that "feeling" that something was not right and so did the usual snooping around (I felt bad about that). It turns out the gf has been cheating. She spent w/e's away twice with an X both times saying she was visiting family. She says nothing happened because he couldn't get it up and I know he does have health issues. She then said she was going to jury duty and met another X from many years ago and had unprotected sex. Finally 10 days after that she spent the weekend with a guy she met on the internet and had protected sex. I am aware that in her youth she confused sex with affection and has low self esteem. I don't think she did this out of emotional attachment but rather a craving for attention and confusing sex for attention. We are in counceling at the moment and I am very much on the "rollercoaster". We are not married but do have a 13 yr old daughter. My first reaction was to run a mile and I put the house on the mkt which is soley in my name. This has all come about in the last two weeks. I'm leaning towards splitting but she wants to stay together and work it out. So the question is this, am I nuts to even consider staying together? And another for the women out there-can you explain why she did this? I'm worried I can never trust her again and thats no way to have a relationship but also feel incapable of making a rational decision at the moment.I'm really sorry you are dealing with this. My guess is that she is exactly what you said- low self esteem and confuses sex with attention/affection/validation. These are things she needed to have within herself, but she probably entered the realtionship with you for the same reasons. When the relationship started to not meet those needs within her that she needed to meet herself, she went elsewhere. It's not an excuse, but it IS a sign that she is not "right upstaris" and won't ever be unless she gets some help with her issues. I hope she is not teaching her daughter to be needy. Not saying she's not a good mom because she cheated, but she's not providing a good example of fidelity for sure. Ok, one other thing I forgot to mention earlier. Before she left for her last w/e away she had a huge outburst insulting me in every way possible, I won't go into details but I was shocked and didn't even know what to say. Then she was off the next day for her dirty w/e. I don't understand what that was about and I don't understand how she can say what she did and then under a month later say she wants to get back together and she feels differently about me. Was the outburst some way to make her feel less guilty?Yes, gaslighting, blameshifting. Again, blaming you for her weakness. Got the legal advice. She can't touch any of my assets and everything is in my name, so finances are not the issue. Of course I have an obligation to my daughter which I will happily honour. We have a coucelling mtg on Saturday and I will tell her then that it's over so there is a third party to help manage the fallout. It's really helped to get feedback here to open my eyes to how bad things are. Sometimes you just want to bury you head in the sand to how bad things are. For the older readers here it reminds me of the Alan Parsons lyrics from eye in the sky, "The sun in your eyes made some of the lies worth believeing".I was concerned about community property if you are considered commonlaw married. Good that you looked into it. AND that you are concerned about being a good dad and supporting your daughter. It will be difficult to keep this to myself until Sat but I really believe thats for the best. And yes now after days of mulling it over I've been moving slowly to this decision anyway before I came here. In some ways I guess it will be a relief once it is over but until then it's gonna be hell. At least it's only 48 hrs or so until it's out in the open.Oh, you can do it. I once knew a BS that found out her H was having a EA and had been for several years. She never said a thing, but she got her ducks in a row. She had him pay for some medical procedures and plastic surgery. It took a couple of years, but she got herself together and one day, she just left. If she can keep a secret for two years, you can wait a few days. Good luck, please keep us updated.
sammyd Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Ok, one other thing I forgot to mention earlier. Before she left for her last w/e away she had a huge outburst insulting me in every way possible, I won't go into details but I was shocked and didn't even know what to say. Then she was off the next day for her dirty w/e. I don't understand what that was about and I don't understand how she can say what she did and then under a month later say she wants to get back together and she feels differently about me. Was the outburst some way to make her feel less guilty? Yes, i think it was to make her feel less guilty, and also, so you didn't stop her going off on her weekend. I mean, she had it all planned out. Did you question her going away the weekend?
woinlove Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Ok, one other thing I forgot to mention earlier. Before she left for her last w/e away she had a huge outburst insulting me in every way possible, I won't go into details but I was shocked and didn't even know what to say. Then she was off the next day for her dirty w/e. I don't understand what that was about and I don't understand how she can say what she did and then under a month later say she wants to get back together and she feels differently about me. Was the outburst some way to make her feel less guilty? I've read other posts of this happening, a spouse picking a fight and then running off to cheat. Yes I think it is connected to guilt, helping them justify to themselves that they are cheating because things are so awful at home. Maybe also hoping to provoke you to say or do something that will justify her behavior to herself. Sorry you are going through this. You sound really together, under the circumstances, so I'm sure you'll end up in a better situation soon. She doesn't sound like someone you can reconcile with now, or maybe ever.
Author Lance22 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 The only reason I'm remotely together is that I've talked to every friend and family I can think of, taken hours to write down how I feel, am lucky enough to work from home and can take hours for introspection and got some valium from the Dr. All these things together have helped so much with the pain but I still break down in tears during the day and throw up from time to time. It's the worst pain I have ever felt. Don't wish it on anyone.
sammyd Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 I understand how you feel. It is one of the worst feelings:( You need to work out what you're going to do, and then stick by it. It's gonna be hard, and it's going to change you a lot. But, you will move forward, one way or another. It takes a lot of time to rebuild, and i mean that as in both a relationship and also you as a person. Whichever route you chose.
Author Lance22 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 Thx Sammy, I can forgive people to a point and eventually trust them again but I'm afraid this is a bridge too far. Oddly it feels like it would be easier not to split and try to work things out but that would be a short term cowards way out and I would be back here again soon and I cannot go through this again. She already has another weekend away planned for May (with the girls? who knows) and refuses to cancel. Actually I didnt even ask her to cancel, she just said I'm not canceling it. I've also found out that a spa weekend she planned which did not happen was to include another man or shall I say one of the others she's already seen. It's so heartbreaking but I've got to soldier on and finish it. As they say that which does not kill me makes me stronger. Hard to believe at the moment but I'm sure it's true. But I think you are right this will take a lot to get over. Maybe I will become a celebate gay man!
Binster Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 I just have a feeling she's going to get nastier and more verbally agressive as this goes on, so be prepared. Thet dont like being caught out, dumped and not geting their own way-a bit like spoilt kids really. Also be prepared to get tough about her moving out - she'll try to hang on because she thinks she's got a cushy number. Give her the hard word - set a date for her to move out and stick to it. Good luck.
Rose1977 Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 I am SO sorry for what you are going through. I do personally know your pain. I don't know how to link to posts here, but if you can find my first thread ever started here at LS, you will see that my situation is very similar to yours. The anger you are feeling is totally normal. My BF and did and are working things out. And it WAS one of the hardest things I have ever done in the beginning. It is still hard. But getting easier. Cheaters have a tendency to say a lot of things that aren't true (duh, guess that's an oxymoron ) and one of the best pieces of advice I can give to you is that if your GF TRULY has or is changing and wants to save it (and this is assuming you even want to save it), you will see the changes immediately. My BF agreed to counseling, booth indiividual and couples. He also gave me complete access to phone/text records, bank statements, C.C. statements, email passwords, etc. etc... The changes he made were quick and obvious. The pain and anger.... LOL that's another story. I was soooooo angry and vindictive. As you can see from my original thread, I do know the pain of waiting for an STD test, etc.... When it first happened I didn't know whether I would stay with him. Now I am glad I did. But it was a long and hard road, and we are not all the way there yet. Here at LS you will get a lot of different opinions. Some people stay after the cheating, for others it is an immediate dealbreaker. Your best bet is to listen to everyone and then decide what will work for you. I was surprised that a lot of people told me I was being TOO vindictive and mean. LS has helped a lot, even when people were harsh with me. I now focus more on how to move on than focusing on anger and hurt. Either way, this is so new to you, expect a boatload of mood swings and anger/sadness and pretty much every other emotion in the book. My best advice as well is to avoid making any MAJOR decisions right now until you are more certain of what you want to do re: staying/leaving etc.... The mood swings make us make some rash decisions and it's never good to do that when in an emotional state. I am so sorry, reading this brings back the original hurt for me and I know what you are feeling and it is brutal. No one deserves this kind of hurt. I am glad you found LS, I think you will find a lot of support here from all types of people who have felt what you are feeling in one way or another.
Rose1977 Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Thx Sammy, I can forgive people to a point and eventually trust them again but I'm afraid this is a bridge too far. Oddly it feels like it would be easier not to split and try to work things out but that would be a short term cowards way out and I would be back here again soon and I cannot go through this again. She already has another weekend away planned for May (with the girls? who knows) and refuses to cancel. Actually I didnt even ask her to cancel, she just said I'm not canceling it. I've also found out that a spa weekend she planned which did not happen was to include another man or shall I say one of the others she's already seen. It's so heartbreaking but I've got to soldier on and finish it. As they say that which does not kill me makes me stronger. Hard to believe at the moment but I'm sure it's true. But I think you are right this will take a lot to get over. Maybe I will become a celebate gay man! Should have read the whole thread before replying.... Okay, this definitely shows she is not changing or even taking your feelings into consideration. I am so sorry. It hurts, it sucks, there is no easy way around it. It's awful. No need to become gay yet though, LOL, there are plenty of nice single girls around. And in time as you are healing you will slowly but surely want to start dating again. It just doesn't feel like it now. But you will .
Whatshername Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 My heart goes out to you. Having been cheated on, it totally contradicts all of the good in you - the faithfulness, , trust, love, etc. Mine also refused to apologize and pointed to my faults for his reason to seek attention elsewhere. He never admitted it, not in so many words. Not cutting contact and not being accountable TO YOU are both extremely disrespectful. How can you possible WANT to be in a relationship with her if she will go/do/be with anyone she chooses, with no accountability or consequences. You deserve more. Much more. Do not allow her to strip you of your integrity and decency. She made her choices, so, allow her to reap the consequences. I would be praying and seeking counsel as well, as you have a child. Do you want custody? Seems you might have grounds for it. I would start making notes about her comings and goings, since you like to write. Even if you never had to use it legally, it will help you, to see in black and white what does not measure up with your standards. Hugs
Author Lance22 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 Thx Rose. I have one more question and I need to go to bed soon so if anyone has a quick answer I'd appreciate it. She went to the GP today for a STD test. They could only test for Chlamidya and Thrush and the results would take 10 days. However, the nurse told her there was a clinic in a nieghboring town who could test you there and then for a whole range of STD's including AIDS and give you the results there and then. Is this possible? I thought it took days or weeks. Is this more BS and she will come back tomorrow and say everything is fine or has anyone heard of this quick turn around in results.
Rose1977 Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Thx Rose. I have one more question and I need to go to bed soon so if anyone has a quick answer I'd appreciate it. She went to the GP today for a STD test. They could only test for Chlamidya and Thrush and the results would take 10 days. However, the nurse told her there was a clinic in a nieghboring town who could test you there and then for a whole range of STD's including AIDS and give you the results there and then. Is this possible? I thought it took days or weeks. Is this more BS and she will come back tomorrow and say everything is fine or has anyone heard of this quick turn around in results. Lance, I highly recommend a PCR DNA test - it's much more reliable for HIV testing, but I do think the results take a bit longer. Mine took 72 hours. I went to a clinic - I was too embarassed to go to my doctor. Someone on another thread told me some AIDS tests are quicker, but both of mine - one after Dday, one 6 months later, took 72 hours. I am so sorry, I do know how scary it is. My BF cheated with a prositute! The fear is awful.
seren Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Hi Lance, First off, I am very sorry you are going through the hell that comes with being betrayed by someone you love(d). Reconciliation is possible, there are many of us who have successfully reconciled after an affair has bombed our lives. BUT, it takes a lot of hard work, from both people in the relationship, honesty, a commitment to reparing the relationship and the need for the WP to be totally transparent and to acknowledge what prompted them to have the affair and finally (possibly not) the need for both to agree boundaries and stick to them. It sounds like your partner is not meeting any of those things and as such, I would question her commitment to your relationship or even an acknowledgment of the enormity of what she has done. Sorry. As to the waiting for the results of STD tests, forget waiting for her to give you the results, get tested yourself, ASAP. Draw some lines in the sand, tell her what YOU need to begin the process of healing, if she cannot meet these, then frankly, I would leave. I am sorry you are going through all this, I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy. Lines in the sand, and stick to them. I hope it goes well or at least better.
Tayla Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Got the legal advice. She can't touch any of my assets and everything is in my name, so finances are not the issue. Of course I have an obligation to my daughter which I will happily honour. We have a couselling mtg on Saturday and I will tell her then that it's over so there is a third party to help manage the fallout. It's really helped to get feedback here to open my eyes to how bad things are. Sometimes you just want to bury you head in the sand to how bad things are. For the older readers here it reminds me of the Alan Parsons lyrics from eye in the sky, "The sun in your eyes made some of the lies worth believing". I am going to take it you are not a resident of the United States to receive the legal advisal you received. Here in the US, states vary in long term committed relations and the right to residency on such matters. Reckon there is goodness on that level for you . Unsure as there are three sides to a story his, hers and the objective onlookers take. Sometimes stepping back can clear the matter and place the puzzled questions into answer form. I am not justifying her behavior, its not in my book of decent regard for others but I can say that usually when a lady "steps" out , in her odd mind she thinks she is doing herself some good without thinking of others that are affected. Stay as far removed emotionally as you can in making decisions involving your shared committment to parenting, that is a lifelong journey that you both concede takes precedence over this indiscretion. Edited February 4, 2011 by Tayla
seibert253 Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 There is one other thing I forgot to mention. I asked her as a starting point if she would cut all ties and contact with these people and she did not want to, said that I shouldn't tell her who her friends should be. I guess that may be the final nail in the coffin. Even if she agreed I would never know if she was in contact or not. I do not think she's done this before with me but it's been in such a spectacular fashion that it's unbelieveable. I think Facebook and mobile phones must have been the death of many a relationship. If she really wanted to work this out, she would do WHATEVER it takes. NC is the 1st step, and she hasn't done that. That's not wanting to work this out in my book. Run Forest, Run. No, pack her things and tell her she's got X amount of days to find someplace to live. As others have said, she's a serial cheater and she's NOT gonna change.
Bryanp Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 She has no problem putting your health at risk for STD's and making you look like a complete fool. If the roles were reversed do you think she would have been so accepting as you have been. She clearly has no respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will. She is playing you for a fool so if you stay with her then you will have proven her right.
Distant78 Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Drop the whore to the fullest. Don't even give her time to get her sh*t together. Kick her to the curb now.
Author Lance22 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 Well I had a good nights sleep for the first time in a while and I think thats because I'm 99% sure what I will do. I've examined the boundaries of my forgiveness and trust and realised that this lies far outside them. If we did try to make up any boundaries placed on her would just make the problem worse as she would feel like I was trying to control her. So on one hand its terribly heartbreaking to see a lot of time and effort washed down the drain but also feels like the right thing to do to split. I'm most upset and concerned for my daughter at the moment this is going to break her little heart and I love her so much. I keep telling myself it's not my fault and in the long run it's better that she doesnt grow up in a home where parents are fighting, theres no trust and the mother is cheating but it doesnt make it any easier. She is going to be crushed.
Author Lance22 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 This is becoming like a bad movie. So to recap we see the councelor tomorrow and I was going to explain my decision in a controlled environment. gf went for std test this morning and in the course of that they found heavy bleeding of the cervix. Of course this could be many things, the worst of which is cancer. Having had a health scare of my own several years ago I know how scary it can be and you always assume the worst. So now I feel sorry for her, there are things you don't wish on your worst enemy. It doesnt change my decision but made me wonder if tomorrow was the right time to drop the bomb. Rang the councelor to explain and she said theres never a good time to announce these things and to go ahead with it. So tomorrow should be interesting to say the least.
sammyd Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Hi again Lance, I'm happy to hear it sounds like you've made your decision, well done, you're taking the first step:) Re the health scare, there's no reason why you still can't be supportive on that front, and i can see why you'd be hesitant in telling her now. If it was a smear test, your partner should have the result back pretty quickly - usually a week to 2 weeks in the main, and she should know if there's a possibility of anything more serious then. Personally, i'd go with the councellor's thoughts. At the end of the day, they are the professional. They are right in saying whichever time is going to be hard, and there isn't ever a good time. Personally, i'd want to clarify where i stand as soon as possible and i think you're right doing it in a controlled environment. Good luck if you do decide to do it tomorrow, and we'll be here if u need someone to vent on! Take care:)
Author Lance22 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 Thanks again Sammy for your support. The councelor felt that having made a decision that if I did not get it out in the open then I would be left in limbo and that would be damaging to me. For anyone else who reads this thread one thing that really helped me was this - draw two circles, one labeled forgiveness and the other labeled trust because utlimately these 2 simple things will determine if you can begin to reconcile. put all the things you can forgive or broken trust that you can get over inside the circles and then figure out where to put whats happening to you. it takes a while to figure out where to put that dot but in my case they were both outside the circles. and btw infidelity was inside both my circles but the scope and sheer damage of whats happened to me fell outside both circles. Everyones will be different.
PegNosePete Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Sounds like a good plan. Having the counsellor there will prevent you from wussing out, as well The thing about forgiveness is, if you're forgiving something that you regard as "forgiveable", then you're not really forgiving at all. You're just categorizing. True forgiveness is forgiving the unforgivable. But, forgiveness is different to reconciliation. I have (almost haha) forgiven my wife for what she did to me, but there's no way in hell I'd ever let her into my house again, or even talk to her again. Forgiveness is something you do for yourself when you're ready, not for her.
Author Lance22 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 Pete - I'm sure you are right. I always felt like I could forgive certain screw ups but this knocked me for such a loop that I no longer knew what I could or couldn't forgive. It was something that helped me see reality and step off the rollercoaster. Everyone is different but I shared it in case it can help someone else in this position. I didnt know up from down for quite a few days but putting it this way helped. And don't worry, I have no intention of wimping out.
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