zengirl Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 And yet a woman doesn't have to put in the right energy, emotion, commitment, attitude (and romance and treat him well) to get a boyfriend. I do think a woman has to do those things, too, though women and men are socialized to do them slightly differently (on average). I think my BF would say I put in energy, emotion, commitment, a good attitude, and a lot of romance to our relationship. I don't advise anyone to be in a one-sided relationship, but I also don't advise calculation. Keeping score kills love. It just does. This idea that men do all the work and the woman is just 'there' is never what I've experienced. I put plenty of work into my relationships, but I make sure and pick men who have the same mindset.
somedude81 Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I do think a woman has to do those things, too, though women and men are socialized to do them slightly differently (on average). I think my BF would say I put in energy, emotion, commitment, a good attitude, and a lot of romance to our relationship. I don't advise anyone to be in a one-sided relationship, but I also don't advise calculation. Keeping score kills love. It just does. This idea that men do all the work and the woman is just 'there' is never what I've experienced. I put plenty of work into my relationships, but I make sure and pick men who have the same mindset. In the beginning, men put in a hell of a lot more work than the woman does. Eventually things even out a bit.
zengirl Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 In the beginning, men put in a hell of a lot more work than the woman does. Eventually things even out a bit. Disagree, in my experiences. I approached my BF first, suggested our first date, and picked the restaurant. He did pay (I left the tip and bought him a drink after), I guess. None of our first dates were elaborately planned; we each planned some of them. I suppose he picked me up for a lot of them (not the 1st), which was nice. But he didn't have to wax his legs either.
somedude81 Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Disagree, in my experiences. I approached my BF first, suggested our first date, and picked the restaurant. He did pay (I left the tip and bought him a drink after), I guess. None of our first dates were elaborately planned; we each planned some of them. I suppose he picked me up for a lot of them (not the 1st), which was nice. But he didn't have to wax his legs either. Interesting experience. Seemed like you really liked him. But, out of all the serious relationships you've had, how many fallowed that pattern?
dispatch3d Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I find this discussion pretty interesting. It's pretty neat that everyone talks about how many things everyone else does wrong. Like girls get sex super easy guys never get sex, yadayadayada. In truth, there are guys who don't get laid for years. There are other guys who get laid by 10 different girls in 10 weeks in a row (a couple of them were not so good haha). This wasn't me so don't hate. But really, anytime there is such a HUGE disparity between the "best" at something and the "worst" as something weird stuff is going to happen. I think strange cultural norms are causing this sort of thing. Meaning I think before the internet/television/brandnaming/etc. the whole dynamic would be completely different. Now people's senses are completely assaulted with information every day. Maybe a lot of it is need filling and that is why people are constantly looking for solutions? Like the entire idea of marketing is people have a "need" to fill, and its the companies job to fill these needs. Consumerism is based on this. Wow that's a rant haha. Anyhow back to the guy I knew who had 10 girls in 10 weeks. He was definitely smarter than most people; he got an engineering degree with doing as little work as humanly possible and cheating a ton. He was also really really really good with people. That's his secret. In all honesty, what most women call "chemistry" is actually something closer to "charisma". Maybe its just overall friend making ability. I do know the guys I have met who were the BEST with women were always!!! the best with people. These guys were not by any means common (at least in my circles). Then again I hung out with mostly nerdy engineers - notoriously bad with people, but also very smart. So meh, its hard to say. Anyhow, my one point (I think that's what I have here haha) is that those guys with excellent people skills get ALL the girls. The majority of women just won't sleep with a guy without "chemistry" and most women do not have any desire to see if chemistry develops. Afterall, there's 20 guys hitting on them, and they don't have to do work to get in a relationship (so why would they?).
TheWatcher Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Except you're ignoring the male upside with this analogy, in the grand scheme of things. Men have a harder time getting laid -- given. Zengirl,It is VERY difficult for a man to get a date let alone sex.Many men go through extremely long periods of time without getting any attention or interest shown from the opposite gender.Very few women have had the same experience.
Mrlonelyone Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Zengirl,It is VERY difficult for a man to get a date let alone sex.Many men go through extremely long periods of time without getting any attention or interest shown from the opposite gender.Very few women have had the same experience. I think allot of men are simply oblivious to the subtle ways that women show interest. They just don't catch the woman looking.
Ross PK Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I think allot of men are simply oblivious to the subtle ways that women show interest. They just don't catch the woman looking. Do they look at the guy in a certain way? I mean, I've caught plenty of women looking at me, but maybe they were just looking at me and wasn't attracted to me. Or there could've been some other reason.
waynebrady Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Yes it is that easy for women to get dates and sex. But see the thing is, they do not want dates or sex with men so it doesn't matter. Alot of men think women have it better in that way. But really, it's irrelevant to them because they don't have that much intrest in men. It's like if a gay man said to a good looking straight man that he's lucky because he could get any guy he wanted It's pretty damn irrelevant to the straight man since the idea of being with a man repulses him, right get it?
waynebrady Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I think allot of men are simply oblivious to the subtle ways that women show interest. They just don't catch the woman looking. Alot of men think that women show intrest in a subtle way when infact they aren't showing any intrest at all. If a woman is subtle about then she doesn't have much intrest... And even if she were, then isn't it time to realise that most men simply don't get thier extremley subtle hints which might easily be mistaken for just being friendly or simply no intrest at all?
Eeyore79 Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 How is a guy an "overly cocky douchebag" because he sees a breath takingly beautiful woman, who instantly turns the situation into a now or never affair, and decides to approach her to see if she would like to get to know each other better? I'm not saying that any guy who approaches a beautiful woman is a douchebag; I'm sure some decent men do approach beautiful women. However, in general the decent men don't have the nerve to approach a beautiful woman, and the only men who do approach are douchebags who are completely full of themselves. This has been borne out by my personal experience; the overconfident douchebags approach me while the genuinely nice guys stand back because they assume I won't be interested. I can only think of one or two times in my whole life when the guy who approached me was a decent man rather than an asshat; in general all of the nice guys I dated are men I actively pursued.
Mrlonelyone Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Alot of men think that women show intrest in a subtle way when infact they aren't showing any intrest at all. If a woman is subtle about then she doesn't have much intrest... And even if she were, then isn't it time to realise that most men simply don't get thier extremley subtle hints which might easily be mistaken for just being friendly or simply no intrest at all? Then men like you come here and complain that women never show interest. You can't expect a woman to be like a man when it comes to showing interest. The just hint that they are interested. A woman looking at you...staring at you intently with dillated pupils... also known as a "come hither look" is interest. It's the #1 way that women show interest. Every encounter, or relationship I have had with a woman has started with such a look. From the female teachers I flirted with...to my childs mother...and the woman I am starting a new relationship with. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=come+hither+look http://www.sex-lexis.com/Sex-Dictionary/come-hither%20look
waynebrady Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Then men like you come here and complain that women never show interest. You can't expect a woman to be like a man when it comes to showing interest. The just hint that they are interested. A woman looking at you...staring at you intently with dillated pupils... also known as a "come hither look" is interest. It's the #1 way that women show interest. Every encounter, or relationship I have had with a woman has started with such a look. From the female teachers I flirted with...to my childs mother...and the woman I am starting a new relationship with. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=come+hither+look http://www.sex-lexis.com/Sex-Dictionary/come-hither%20look I don't really complain. I am pointing out the fact that women don't have much if any intrest in men, and that men wish they were being subtle in showing intrest when infact they werent intrested at all. For most women, being with a man is a matter of take it or leave it. They couldn't care less if they never had a guy. So to think that they would put in any effort into giving these subtle hints is ludicrous.
Mrlonelyone Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I don't really complain. I am pointing out the fact that women don't have much if any intrest in men, and that men wish they were being subtle in showing intrest when infact they werent intrested at all. For most women, being with a man is a matter of take it or leave it. They couldn't care less if they never had a guy. So to think that they would put in any effort into giving these subtle hints is ludicrous. Women who don't have men are stigmatized by our society. Consider what people say about single mothers for instance...compared to married mothers. Consider what people say about women who are chronically single VS women who are long time married. For both genders there is great social and psychological pressure to pair off.
zengirl Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Interesting experience. Seemed like you really liked him. But, out of all the serious relationships you've had, how many fallowed that pattern? None have been exactly the same, but I've never had a LTR where the guy did all the work in the beginning. Zengirl,It is VERY difficult for a man to get a date let alone sex.Many men go through extremely long periods of time without getting any attention or interest shown from the opposite gender.Very few women have had the same experience. Are you kidding? I know women who haven't gone out on a date in years, too. The fact is, there are women and men who do well, and women and men who do poorly. The downside for men who do poorly is they often face more outright rejection (they're more likely to ask girls out and hear "no" more frequently), which I understand is not fun. But there are plenty of women who feel just as frustrated, and there are plenty of men who have happy dating lives.
TheWatcher Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I think allot of men are simply oblivious to the subtle ways that women show interest. They just don't catch the woman looking. True,women are very subtle in the ways that they convey interest, I moved my pinkie a quarter of a inch to the left...when his back was turned and he was standing 20 feet away from me...how couldn't he see I was interested...I made it so obvious Many men misread signs & take everyday courtesy/friendliness as some sort of indication of interest.
sweetjasmine Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 But, out of all the serious relationships you've had, how many fallowed that pattern? All of mine have followed zengirl's pattern. Honestly, I don't think it's all that unusual among certain personality types.
waynebrady Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Women who don't have men are stigmatized by our society. Consider what people say about single mothers for instance...compared to married mothers. Consider what people say about women who are chronically single VS women who are long time married. For both genders there is great social and psychological pressure to pair off. If it weren't for the social pressure you are speaking of, most women would prefer to be single. The only reason women are with men is because they get pressured into it by society. It's men who stigmatize women who are single mothers or chronically single, when most women actually want to be single...
curiousaboutthings Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Disagree, in my experiences. I approached my BF first, suggested our first date, and picked the restaurant. He did pay (I left the tip and bought him a drink after), I guess. None of our first dates were elaborately planned; we each planned some of them. I suppose he picked me up for a lot of them (not the 1st), which was nice. But he didn't have to wax his legs either. So somehow he still did more work though right? Waxing makes it equal? Men have to shave everyday. Big deal. Also so much for the asker pays rule right? How soon before women start asking out men knowing he will pay?
curiousaboutthings Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Zengirl,It is VERY difficult for a man to get a date let alone sex.Many men go through extremely long periods of time without getting any attention or interest shown from the opposite gender.Very few women have had the same experience. I don't see the pooint in explaining this to women. Most will not believe you and even if they believe you they will not care as long as it works for them.
curiousaboutthings Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Then men like you come here and complain that women never show interest. You can't expect a woman to be like a man when it comes to showing interest. The just hint that they are interested. A woman looking at you...staring at you intently with dillated pupils... also known as a "come hither look" is interest. It's the #1 way that women show interest. Every encounter, or relationship I have had with a woman has started with such a look. From the female teachers I flirted with...to my childs mother...and the woman I am starting a new relationship with. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=come+hither+look http://www.sex-lexis.com/Sex-Dictionary/come-hither%20look You are being ridiculous. If these subtle signs are what one should look for one will get rejected a lot. because you will end up confusing these signs. Also I don't get your point about women can't be like men. They can't ask? They should get to sit back and be lazy and make their interest known by hinting while men do all the hard work. Only women deserve to be wanted and pursued? Men are so bad that it is incomprehenisble for the reverse to happen?
curiousaboutthings Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Women who don't have men are stigmatized by our society. Consider what people say about single mothers for instance...compared to married mothers. Consider what people say about women who are chronically single VS women who are long time married. For both genders there is great social and psychological pressure to pair off. People(especially women) also judge single mothers for getting into relationships because they believe they should be focused on the kids and not their own social life. Many if not most men do not like dating single mothers. The majority of people would be happy if single mothers did not remarry or get into relationships.
zengirl Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 So somehow he still did more work though right? Waxing makes it equal? Men have to shave everyday. Big deal. Also so much for the asker pays rule right? How soon before women start asking out men knowing he will pay? The waxing thing was actually kind of a joke. I don't think my BF would say he did or does more work, but we're not into "calculation" either. We both put work in, and we both enjoyed the work. If you resent any of the effort you put into dating, it's no wonder it goes badly for you. My BF did pick me up for dates, but he likes to drive and I don't. Also, they were all heading my way (I live near more fun things since I live in a downtown area). It's not like he zigzagged across town. Other than that, our effort, investment, and even money on the first few dates was roughly equal. He pays more now, because he makes a lot more and that works fine for us. I've been the partner that paid more before (in other LTRs), when I made more. To me, that's a balance that's based more on individual circumstances than gender.
curiousaboutthings Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 The waxing thing was actually kind of a joke. I don't think my BF would say he did or does more work, but we're not into "calculation" either. We both put work in, and we both enjoyed the work. If you resent any of the effort you put into dating, it's no wonder it goes badly for you. My BF did pick me up for dates, but he likes to drive and I don't. Also, they were all heading my way (I live near more fun things since I live in a downtown area). It's not like he zigzagged across town. Other than that, our effort, investment, and even money on the first few dates was roughly equal. He pays more now, because he makes a lot more and that works fine for us. I've been the partner that paid more before (in other LTRs), when I made more. To me, that's a balance that's based more on individual circumstances than gender. I disagree. Women look to marry and date "up" so it is a consequence of gender that men usually pay more.
zengirl Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I disagree. Women look to marry and date "up" so it is a consequence of gender that men usually pay more. Well, on average, men make more still in the U.S. So, more women would have to marry up, if everybody married. I disagree that most women consciously look to marry up these days. I've dated men who earned more or less than me, at various points, and know many women who have.
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