dating & sex etiquette

[LittleTiger]

LittleTiger, I'll give it a shot but it's going to end up similar to fishtaco's story.

 

People who are actively dating in my area are most likely multidating. They want to keep their options open. And they don't know if the other person is seeing someone else. Your date might seem interested in you but then decide to pursue an exclusive relationship with someone else.

 

So people continue multidating until one of them realizes they want to have a more serious, more exclusive relationship with one person. And they have the official and/or exclusive talk.

 

Now what happens if you want to be clear up front about multidating? Say you've been out on a couple of dates and you seem to get along well. Maybe the other person isn't multidating. Then you run the risk of offending the other party and having them end the relationship. What if you are upfront that you aren't multidating? Then you put pressure on the other party to not date anyone else, but the other party might not be ready for that yet. I see no benefit (to myself) to have that sort of discussion until I'm ready to discuss it.

 

Also, one additional benefit of multidating is that you don't get so heartbroken when one of the people you're dating decides not to continue the relationship.

 

LittleTiger, I can see your point about complications that arise from mismatched expectations. Certainly there are ethical and moral values that can arise. For example, I don't think it's moral to be sleeping with multiple partners in a multi-dating relationship without disclosing it to all parties. But that is a value judgement on my end, and other people will have different opinions about this. I protect myself from such scenarios by having a talk about becoming exclusive at the appropriate time.

 

Thanks for making the effort TryingToMoveOn, I do appreciate it. I can understand the process but I still don't think it makes sense.

 

If someone is going to be offended when you tell them you're multi-dating (although if you tell them before the first date I don't see why they should be), won't they be just as offended, if not more so, when you bring up the 'exclusivity talk'? Isn't it pretty much the same as saying - 'hey, up until now I've been dating other people, but I've decided I like you best so how about it'?

 

Anyone who would be offended by the idea of multi-dating will surely be horrified to discover they've spent time getting to know you, while you were off getting friendly (sex or no sex) with another woman.

 

I don't see where there's any 'pressure' either. The person who doesn't like multi-dating can just say so and walk away - or they can choose to take a risk - but at least they know what they're dealing with.

 

Now, this benefit of not being heartbroken is something I find very strange. Are you multi-dating as a means to protect yourself from heartache, meaning you're deliberately trying not to get too emotionally involved? Or, worse still, are you just dating more than one person as an insurance policy so that you don't end up without someone to date?

 

Whatever it is, life is so much simpler when you focus on one person at a time. It all just sounds like 'legalised' cheating to me!

[Gypsy_Soul]

Okay now I'm confused. So multi-dating means having multiple relationships? I thought multi-dating just meant that you go out with a few people at the same time to see if they are relationship material or potential.

 

I need a better explanation of this multi-dating thing because when I tell a man I'm trying to get to know that I multi-date, sometimes he thinks it means I'm having sex with multiple people. Which is not the case.

 

LittleTiger, I'll give it a shot but it's going to end up similar to fishtaco's story.

 

People who are actively dating in my area are most likely multidating. They want to keep their options open. And they don't know if the other person is seeing someone else. Your date might seem interested in you but then decide to pursue an exclusive relationship with someone else.

 

So people continue multidating until one of them realizes they want to have a more serious, more exclusive relationship with one person. And they have the official and/or exclusive talk.

 

Now what happens if you want to be clear up front about multidating? Say you've been out on a couple of dates and you seem to get along well. Maybe the other person isn't multidating. Then you run the risk of offending the other party and having them end the relationship. What if you are upfront that you aren't multidating? Then you put pressure on the other party to not date anyone else, but the other party might not be ready for that yet. I see no benefit (to myself) to have that sort of discussion until I'm ready to discuss it.

 

Also, one additional benefit of multidating is that you don't get so heartbroken when one of the people you're dating decides not to continue the relationship.

 

LittleTiger, I can see your point about complications that arise from mismatched expectations. Certainly there are ethical and moral values that can arise. For example, I don't think it's moral to be sleeping with multiple partners in a multi-dating relationship without disclosing it to all parties. But that is a value judgement on my end, and other people will have different opinions about this. I protect myself from such scenarios by having a talk about becoming exclusive at the appropriate time.

[alphamale]

We all seem to have a don't ask don't tell attitude.

don't look a gift horse in the mouth

[LittleTiger]

If you used me specifically as an example, I think it'd be difficult for me to not take it personally.

 

Well I'm sorry that you did because it wasn't intended that way. Perhaps I worded it badly. What I meant was people who think the way you do about multi-dating - not you specifically.

 

You are right that no man is an island. But we are also a society, much like a flock of birds. You want to be different and not run with the pack? You face the consequences. Society rewards conformists. This is a truth that applies even outside of dating. I'm here to do what it takes to find a genuine woman that I can be in a long term relationship with. I'm not here to reform the culture. I'll leave that to great men and women. I'm just an average nobody.

 

Again, I think you've misunderstood. I wasn't saying you were responsible for the dating world 'out there', I was talking about your own dating experiences. You choose the kind of people you date, just as you choose your own living environment or your own friends - it's all self constructed. The way you behave will influence the people you hang out with - and vice versa.

 

And the rules I listed allows that. It leaves the responsibility in your hands. Find out for yourself, and don't date anyone you don't find acceptable. Even then here in Southern California, that's actually not quite enough. Because even though I don't lie when asked, many other people do. And in the end, the only excuse anyone has to give is "I changed my mind". How do you know if the person was genuine about it from the beginning? It cannot be proven.

 

I think its really sad that people are so dishonest and what's even sadder is that you expect them to be.

 

I've put myself at risk.

 

Didn't you say that you'd voluntarily become exclusive with her without having the talk? Isn't it the very fact that you haven't had the exclusivity talk that puts you at risk? I'm sorry, maybe I'm missing something here.

 

It's great that in the UK people are honest. No one play games. I envy you. Although I admit I can't envision a society where no one behaves poorly. But I'm not in the UK, nor do I want to move there. There are other life considerations more important than seeking out the utopia of dating environments.

 

I'm sure people in the UK are no more honest than people anywhere else and I'm very sure they do play games. So I wouldn't recommend moving for the dating benefits. Utopia it most definitely isn't.

 

Again, I think you've misunderstood. 'My world' that I'm talking about is not geographical. It's the world I have created with the people I choose to be part of it and we all do it. Honesty and integrity are top of my 'wish list' for friends and relationships and multi-dating seems to fall outside those parameters. Of course, I could still be completely misunderstanding the whole concept.

[TryingToMoveOn]

Okay now I'm confused. So multi-dating means having multiple relationships? I thought multi-dating just meant that you go out with a few people at the same time to see if they are relationship material or potential.

 

I need a better explanation of this multi-dating thing because when I tell a man I'm trying to get to know that I multi-date, sometimes he thinks it means I'm having sex with multiple people. Which is not the case.

 

Dating involves establishing a relationship between two people. That's why I used the word "relationship" in my post, but I did not intend to mean an official relationship. And as you so wisely pointed out, multi-dating does not equate to multi-screwing. But it does happen, for those who wish to make it happen.

[TryingToMoveOn]

If someone is going to be offended when you tell them you're multi-dating (although if you tell them before the first date I don't see why they should be), won't they be just as offended, if not more so, when you bring up the 'exclusivity talk'? Isn't it pretty much the same as saying - 'hey, up until now I've been dating other people, but I've decided I like you best so how about it'?

 

Actually, you don't need to bring up multi-dating to have the exclusivity talk. And even if you do mention that it, likely they would brush it off since you've expressed a commitment to them over the rest.

 

Now, this benefit of not being heartbroken is something I find very strange. Are you multi-dating as a means to protect yourself from heartache, meaning you're deliberately trying not to get too emotionally involved? Or, worse still, are you just dating more than one person as an insurance policy so that you don't end up without someone to date?

A strong yes to the first one and a weaker yes to the second one. It's easier for me not to get ahead of myself when multi-dating and helps me evaluate things more objectively. And if one of them decides to date someone else, then by all means go ahead, since I have other options. But I do take the concept of getting into a relationship quite seriously and I don't get in a relationship with the "last person standing" just because they're my only option.

 

Whatever it is, life is so much simpler when you focus on one person at a time. It all just sounds like 'legalised' cheating to me!

It is much simpler but it also much slower. Think of multi-dating as a way to get to know multiple people at the same time in parallel. And from there you're trying to find out which is the best person for you.

[fishtaco]

I think its really sad that people are so dishonest and what's even sadder is that you expect them to be.

 

When I'm out there meeting new people, I have no idea how they are like. Can you tell if a person is genuine from a quick conversation? I certainly can't. And unless I only incestuously date my long time friends, I HAVE to go out there and meet strangers. Strangers are by definition, a random bunch. You don't know what you'll get. If you have the ability to determine a person's worth without much interaction, I wish I had your power, but I don't. So what I do is a weeding out process, which is what multi dating is for.

 

And dishonest is a strong word. How would you consider the behavior of the two women in my experience that didn't work out? I don't consider them dishonest. But they are certainly undesirable in a dating situation, for me. As we can all see with hindsight. It doesn't take dishonesty for a possible relationship to fall apart. And every time one falls apart, there is the chance that the person that over invested will pay an unpleasant price for it. Dishonesty is certainly bad, but even before we get there, there's already a myriad of possible unpleasant outcomes that one should protect themselves against.

 

So it's not that I'm expecting dishonesty. I expect people to be looking out for their own best interest, as they should. But sometimes, that may not be for my best interest.

 

Didn't you say that you'd voluntarily become exclusive with her without having the talk? Isn't it the very fact that you haven't had the exclusivity talk that puts you at risk? I'm sorry, maybe I'm missing something here.

 

Yes exactly, I broke my own rule, which is why I've put myself at risk. I'm willing to do this for her because she has been earning my trust. So really, we want the same thing. You don't want crappy people around you, I don't either. I do it by the multi-dating filter. I give them some rope, and see if they hang themselves with it. This girl so far is great, so I'm letting her inside. You seem to have the ability to surround yourself with good people without using any sort of filter. I don't know how you do it, but good for you.

 

Again, I think you've misunderstood. 'My world' that I'm talking about is not geographical. It's the world I have created with the people I choose to be part of it and we all do it. Honesty and integrity are top of my 'wish list' for friends and relationships and multi-dating seems to fall outside those parameters. Of course, I could still be completely misunderstanding the whole concept.

 

Fair enough. Let's agree to disagree.

 

I'm not trying to convert you to multi dating. It's not for everyone. But how about just understand that it's a different but valid approach to dating? The only people you and I should condemn are liars. Multi daters don't lie. We just don't make any assumptions. Everybody have a different list of important stuff. So instead of guessing what's important to someone we just met and know next to nothing about, we let THEM worry about what's important to them. Which to me, is actually more straight forward and simple, given the fact that there are a large variety of what people want out there. No guessing or assumptions on my part which in my experience, usually turn out wrong anyway, given that men and women think differently.

 

So if you're going to take the moral high ground, take it all the way and don't be so quick to condemn multi daters as lacking in honesty and integrity. It's merely a different perspective.

[PeachyPink]

I am new to dating after being married for 15 years. Things are going good and I have about three to four women that I see. Things have moved fast and I have started a sexual relationship with two.

There has been no talk of relationship exclusiveness. And frankly they made the moves on me without a lot of talk or prerequisite. So I am wondering how typical this is? When dating includes sex, is there some implied exclusiveness? We all seem to have a don't ask don't tell attitude. Keep in mind I haven't dated since I was about 20 years old.

I'll assume the women are your age. Unless they have said they are dating others too, sex at this age typically implies exclusivity. Why didn't you discuss this with them before you slept with them?

[jenifer1972]

I'll assume the women are your age. Unless they have said they are dating others too, sex at this age typically implies exclusivity. Why didn't you discuss this with them before you slept with them?

 

Uhmm, because for a lot of guys, NSA sex w/ multiple women at once is a dream come true. They are no more likely to cut this off than they would shoot a golden goose in the head..

[Disillusioned]

I am new to dating after being married for 15 years. Things are going good and I have about three to four women that I see. Things have moved fast and I have started a sexual relationship with two.

There has been no talk of relationship exclusiveness. And frankly they made the moves on me without a lot of talk or prerequisite. So I am wondering how typical this is? When dating includes sex, is there some implied exclusiveness? We all seem to have a don't ask don't tell attitude. Keep in mind I haven't dated since I was about 20 years old.

 

This is one of the biggest reasons why I stopped dating, because of all these unwritten rules everyone is supposed to know. Breaking these rules and thinking outside the box are NOT appreciated in the dating world.

[Jannah]

This is one of the biggest reasons why I stopped dating, because of all these unwritten rules everyone is supposed to know. Breaking these rules and thinking outside the box are NOT appreciated in the dating world.

 

For the purpose of this particular thread, I wouldn't view it that way.

 

OP just ended a 12 year marriage and he's being honest with himself in that at this stage in his life, he isn't looking for anything beyond casual fun.

 

I wouldn't even consider what he's doing as "dating", moreso FWB, which would fit into the OP's lifestyle at this stage.

[joe777]

I'll assume the women are your age. Unless they have said they are dating others too, sex at this age typically implies exclusivity. Why didn't you discuss this with them before you slept with them?

 

What? How does sex at this age imply exclusivity? It seems that it would imply the exact opposite. Don't be offended but I find that comment somewhat silly.

I am 40 and the female friends I see are 35 - 45. At this age I find them to be more in touch with there self and confident about who they are. With that security, I think they feel comfortable with life in general, that includes family, friends, work/careers, relationships. I believe they deal with these things better the a woman in her 20's or early 30's, and therefore having sex implies that they want to have sex. spending time with family, means they want to spend time with family (and so on) I could be way off, and just happened upon 5-6 confident, mature strong women.

 

 

As far as the other comments that say there must be a talk before sex, i think that is crazy. yes, dont jump into the sack with just anyone. if you share something special with someone, make sure they are worthy of that sharing. (kinda like fishtacos comment about the gift, & making sure your friend is worthy of an expensive gift and give without expectations or asking for it back) And like I said, these are woman I have gotten to know & care about - woman I've know for a period of time.

 

it seems like tiger is suggesting a complete background check. if you talk about sex early on, do you also discuss finances, medical history, car insurance. getting to know someone (to me) is a process, and that process takes time. And should take time.

 

I appreciate everyones comments so much. Even those i do not agree with, I may even enjoy them more as they cause me to expand my mind.

[LittleTiger]

Actually, you don't need to bring up multi-dating to have the exclusivity talk. And even if you do mention that it, likely they would brush it off since you've expressed a commitment to them over the rest.

 

Ok, you're right, you don't have to bring it up ........but if she assumes you were exclusive from day one and then finds out you weren't some time later (maybe after you're married!)......good luck with that one. If I was one of your multi-dates and you did mention it whilst telling me I was 'the chosen one', I'd tell you to go choose one of the others!

 

A strong yes to the first one and a weaker yes to the second one. It's easier for me not to get ahead of myself when multi-dating and helps me evaluate things more objectively. And if one of them decides to date someone else, then by all means go ahead, since I have other options. But I do take the concept of getting into a relationship quite seriously and I don't get in a relationship with the "last person standing" just because they're my only option.

 

It is much simpler but it also much slower. Think of multi-dating as a way to get to know multiple people at the same time in parallel. And from there you're trying to find out which is the best person for you.

 

Now this actually does start to make some sense of it for me because it demonstrates a fundamental difference in attitude to looking for a partner. I wouldn't be interested in anyone who's a 'maybe'. There are millions of 'maybe's in the world, lots of 'options' who we could no doubt have a reasonably contented life with but life's too short. Anyone I date with a view to a LTR has to stand 'head and shoulders' above other people in my eyes.

 

There has to be something significantly 'special' about them to make them worth my time. I don't expect perfection in a partner, but I do expect the X-Factor, and I can 'see' or 'feel' the X-Factor very soon after I meet someone. To me, there just aren't enough people like that for multi-dating to even be a consideration.

 

(Just like to point out, although I'm talking in the present tense I'm not actually single - I did find that man who is 'head and shoulders' for me, so I'm not talking 'pie in the sky'.)

[LittleTiger]

When I'm out there meeting new people, I have no idea how they are like. Can you tell if a person is genuine from a quick conversation? I certainly can't. And unless I only incestuously date my long time friends, I HAVE to go out there and meet strangers. Strangers are by definition, a random bunch. You don't know what you'll get. If you have the ability to determine a person's worth without much interaction, I wish I had your power, but I don't. So what I do is a weeding out process, which is what multi dating is for.

 

I think I'm starting to understand why you do it. My initial thought was so that you could keep your options open and have sex with lots of women without having to make any promises. which is basically the attitude of a player. I do suspect that for some people, and maybe, at least to some extent for all men, that may be part of the attraction, but I can see that you also have other reasons which, to you, are entirely valid.

 

Perhaps I am lucky but, yes, I've always been a good judge of character. I will form an opinion about someone based on body language and a very quick conversation -provided the conversation has some substance of course - 'Can I buy you a drink', or 'You have a lovely smile' doesn't qualify. Sometimes I make mistakes but, honestly, not often. I think most people are fairly easy to read - it's little things that make a huge difference and they're things that people can't hide because they're largely unconscious.

 

And dishonest is a strong word. How would you consider the behavior of the two women in my experience that didn't work out? I don't consider them dishonest. But they are certainly undesirable in a dating situation, for me. As we can all see with hindsight. It doesn't take dishonesty for a possible relationship to fall apart. And every time one falls apart, there is the chance that the person that over invested will pay an unpleasant price for it. Dishonesty is certainly bad, but even before we get there, there's already a myriad of possible unpleasant outcomes that one should protect themselves against.

 

So it's not that I'm expecting dishonesty. I expect people to be looking out for their own best interest, as they should. But sometimes, that may not be for my best interest.

 

Do I consider those women dishonest? Actually, yes, the first one was dishonest - you said she 'pretended', that means she lied. The second one - who knows? So this is about our different definition of 'honesty'.

 

The question seems to be - if you're not telling someone upfront what you're doing, why aren't you? If the answer is - because doing so could have negative consequences for you ie he/she dumps you or refuses to continue having sex with you - I would say that was dishonest. You're doing it to protect your own interests and you don't care about the other person. You're saying is it's up to them to protect themselves - fair enough - but if you're a kind and caring person I don't understand why you wouldn't consider the other person too and let them have the full picture.

 

Yes exactly, I broke my own rule, which is why I've put myself at risk. I'm willing to do this for her because she has been earning my trust. So really, we want the same thing. You don't want crappy people around you, I don't either. I do it by the multi-dating filter. I give them some rope, and see if they hang themselves with it. This girl so far is great, so I'm letting her inside. You seem to have the ability to surround yourself with good people without using any sort of filter. I don't know how you do it, but good for you.

 

I'm just wondering why you've broken your own rule. If you like her, which you obviously do, then why take that risk when you don't have to? What's stopping you from having the exclusivity talk with her?

 

Re the 'filter' you mention. I most certain do have one. I've developed and fine tuned it over the years and it's 99% accurate. It's really not that difficult to do, and 'in your face honesty' is one of the ways I achieved it. You watch dishonest people squirm when faced with a up-front question. Yes, perhaps it's a skill but it's one worth investing time in acquiring.

 

Fair enough. Let's agree to disagree.

 

I'm not trying to convert you to multi dating. It's not for everyone. But how about just understand that it's a different but valid approach to dating? The only people you and I should condemn are liars. Multi daters don't lie. We just don't make any assumptions. Everybody have a different list of important stuff. So instead of guessing what's important to someone we just met and know next to nothing about, we let THEM worry about what's important to them. Which to me, is actually more straight forward and simple, given the fact that there are a large variety of what people want out there. No guessing or assumptions on my part which in my experience, usually turn out wrong anyway, given that men and women think differently.

 

I'm more than happy to agree to disagree and I am, genuinely, just trying to understand this process. So many people seem to do it these days and it seems to cause so much angst and confusion, which, as I said before, doesn't happen in 'my world' and the only real difference that is glaringly apparent to me is up-front honesty.

 

So if you're going to take the moral high ground, take it all the way and don't be so quick to condemn multi daters as lacking in honesty and integrity. It's merely a different perspective.

 

It's not my intention to take the moral high ground and I know, probably more than most, how different we all are - not just men and women but every individual. In 'my world' the way multi-daters go about things is dishonest. It's not actually a moral judgement, it's an observation. I understand that you don't think you're being dishonest so how can I judge you for that? We do, as you say, have an entirely different perspective - especially on the meaning of honesty.

[LittleTiger]

it seems like tiger is suggesting a complete background check. if you talk about sex early on, do you also discuss finances, medical history, car insurance. getting to know someone (to me) is a process, and that process takes time. And should take time.

 

No Joe, I'm not suggesting a complete background check, that would be ridiculous, I'm talking about being open and honest about whether you are multi-dating - that's it. One topic only. That's where a lot of the confusion seems to come from in 'dating' today. Nobody is being honest about what they're doing or what they're looking for - and, on top of that, there are all these 'rules'.

 

What I'm suggesting is, if you are multi-dating you make that clear up-front. Then the other person can decide if they want to date you. That's all they need to know at that point. It is important, because if they find out later and, like me, they think it's a form of cheating, you've just wasted your time because they're going to dump you whether you like them best or not.

 

I think your situation may be a little different anyway and doesn't really apply to what we've been discussing in your 'absence'. It doesn't sound like you're actually 'dating' these women anyway and if you're not dating there is no expectation. I once had a FWB but we didn't pretend or act like it was dating. We both knew from the start exactly what it was so nobody got hurt. "Hey, I'd like to have NSA sex with you. Are you interested?" "Sure, that sounds like fun". That's what I call communicating openly.

 

I wasn't really referring to the point of becoming intimate either, I was talking about 'fessing up' before you go on your first date. Regarding discussions about sex, this is just a difference of opinion. Unless you're in it purely for sex, as in a FWB, I think sex should be an extension of an otherwise developing relationship - and yes it takes time.

 

So, in my mind, once you reach the stage of having sex, you will probably already know about the job, family, finances or whatever.......and there are certain aspects of someones medical history you definitey need to at least think about before you get intimate with them.

 

Great discussion though - since I joined LS and started nosing at the dating section this topic has really baffled me - so thanks for bringing it up.

[TryingToMoveOn]

Now this actually does start to make some sense of it for me because it demonstrates a fundamental difference in attitude to looking for a partner. I wouldn't be interested in anyone who's a 'maybe'. There are millions of 'maybe's in the world, lots of 'options' who we could no doubt have a reasonably contented life with but life's too short. Anyone I date with a view to a LTR has to stand 'head and shoulders' above other people in my eyes.

 

There has to be something significantly 'special' about them to make them worth my time. I don't expect perfection in a partner, but I do expect the X-Factor, and I can 'see' or 'feel' the X-Factor very soon after I meet someone. To me, there just aren't enough people like that for multi-dating to even be a consideration.

 

(Just like to point out, although I'm talking in the present tense I'm not actually single - I did find that man who is 'head and shoulders' for me, so I'm not talking 'pie in the sky'.)

 

I build up slowly until I get that X-Factor. For me dating's a slow dance -- with each date I learn more and more about the other person. It takes me many many dates to gauge LTR potential. And in my experience, people are able to put up good facades to hide secrets or shortcomings. (I'm pretty good at that myself) So it's a slow process of getting to know them, their values, and their intentions. Slow, but fun and rewarding!

 

Sounds like you have a good man on your hands.

[fishtaco]

I'm not going to take the bait about the "different definition of honesty". I'm tired of this discussion. Think whatever you want. Go ahead and report me to the dating police.

 

I'm just wondering why you've broken your own rule. If you like her, which you obviously do, then why take that risk when you don't have to? What's stopping you from having the exclusivity talk with her?

 

This question I'll answer. It's because things aren't always simple and black and white. Which I'm glad for you that your 'world' seems to be that way. Mine is not. I like her a lot, but there are things that may cause issues if I get into a serious relationship with her. But I'm hoping for a solution. I don't like getting in and out of serious relationships. Serious relationships are serious. So I'd like to make sure before I make a move. I suppose that's somehow lacking in integrity to you as well. I'm about as confused about your puritanical views as you are about my lack-of-integrity views. But I'm not going to discuss the details here. This thread is not about my story with this girl I like. If I feel like it, I'll post another thread about it. But most likely not. I already know what I want. I'm just waiting for the solution to happen, or not happen, in which case I'll go back to "living in sin" again.

 

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. But I'm happy to see joe stand strong on his position. For someone that haven't been in the dating scene so long, it's good to see he has a great understanding.

[LittleTiger]

So it's a slow process of getting to know them, their values, and their intentions. Slow, but fun and rewarding!

 

Sounds like you have a good man on your hands.

 

Well, as long as nobody gets hurt, 'fun and rewarding sounds' good to me.

 

Good luck - I hope the lady with the X-factor dances her way into your life very soon.

 

Yes, he's a good man alright. One in a million! I'm very lucky.

[LittleTiger]

I'm not going to take the bait about the "different definition of honesty". I'm tired of this discussion. Think whatever you want. Go ahead and report me to the dating police.

 

You and I obviously speak a different language because we clearly don't understand each other. I wasn't laying any 'bait', nor expecting such an aggressive reply, and I don't think 'dating police' are necessary. Your conscience is all you need.

 

My views may seem puritanical but I'm not perfect and I don't expect anyone else to be. I am, however, very curious about things I don't understand. I'm sorry, I've obviously upset you. It wasn't my intention.

[zengirl]

People decide what their own values are.

 

I find it a bit iffy to sleep with someone without exclusivity and without being completely open about that non-exclusivity. I'm aware that doesn't sound romantic, and that it sounds uncomfortable, and that it might get in the way of what people want in the short-term, but it does sound moral to me and healthy for the long-run of living day-in, day-out, with who you are.

 

That said, I realize it's a high expectation, so I take it on myself to make sure that I make my position clear----I don't have sex outside of a serious LTR and never early on----when I date. I expect everyone else make their positions clear. So, I'd care for neither the OP's attitude, nor the women's (he's dating) attitudes in this situation. Wouldn't fit my value system.

 

The burden is not on one side or the other. To me, the burden of openness and behaving with as much integrity and overall goodness is on all people, all the time. The fact is, if you're consciously hiding information (the other women) to get some short-term thing you want (sex, dates, whatever), then it's not being the best person you can be. Plenty of people aren't the best they can be every day, so I'm not trying to crucify anyone, just say, I don't think it's behaving with real integrity.