Unapologetic OWs - a threat?

February 9, 2011

I think this is a key source of disagreement here.

The position is "perceived" to be open by the UOW. IMHO, most MM's who have affairs aren't actually looking for the position to be "open" or filled by someone new...they're just looking to enjoy the interviewing process. :D

Again, you nailed it Owl. I read so many posts by people who, IMO, are deluding themselves into believing they are the love of their AP's life and that it's only a matter of time ("we're heading toward marriage" comes to mind, as one example) before they finally "win" their AP. If they only knew what was REALLY going on inside their AP's mind.

February 9, 2011

I have yet to meet a man, married or otherwise, that finds a self-centered woman desirable.

LOL.

Too, too much.

Totally agree. And why is it, pray tell, that there are only two kinds of women in the minds of some? If you're not a self serving, self centered type, you're a pathetic loser? How about a happy medium. Self assured BUT kind, honest, and living a life of integrity? I guess for some folks it's an alien thought process.

February 9, 2011

Again, you nailed it Owl. I read so many posts by people who, IMO, are deluding themselves into believing they are the love of their AP's life and that it's only a matter of time ("we're heading toward marriage" comes to mind, as one example) before they finally "win" their AP. If they only knew what was REALLY going on inside their AP's mind.

How is that any different than what YOU are projecting what is in the AP's mind?

Only their belief is one out of love and yours is out of spite.

No one knows what goes on anyone's mind. You only have to look at their actions, weigh their words and see if they balance each other out.

It is not a game to be won, but a journey to be traveled.

February 9, 2011

How is that any different than what YOU are projecting what is in the AP's mind?

Only their belief is one out of love and yours is out of spite.

No one knows what goes on anyone's mind. You only have to look at their actions, weigh their words and see if they balance each other out.

It is not a game to be won, but a journey to be traveled.

Yeah, okay.

I'm not "projecting" anything but what the AP is proving by the refusal to leave their spouse, letting many of these A's to drag on for year after year after year after year. It's not rocket science. At least not for me.

And, IMO, said belief is borne out of gullibility and delusion and based on pretty lies by the AP. THEIR love, perhaps, but not the AP's.

February 9, 2011

Totally agree. And why is it, pray tell, that there are only two kinds of women in the minds of some? If you're not a self serving, self centered type, you're a pathetic loser? How about a happy medium. Self assured BUT kind, honest, and living a life of integrity? I guess for some folks it's an alien thought process.

I did not see anyone say that there are only two kinds of women.

You make many jabs at people who don't agree with you by calling them inferior with alien thought processes. Is that self-assured and kind, honest and living a life of integrity?

Perhaps you should not try and tell others what their life should look like when you cannot even model your own ideal behavior and value system.

February 9, 2011

Totally agree. And why is it, pray tell, that there are only two kinds of women in the minds of some? If you're not a self serving, self centered type, you're a pathetic loser? How about a happy medium. Self assured BUT kind, honest, and living a life of integrity?

That describes many of us

February 9, 2011

I did not see anyone say that there are only two kinds of women.

You make many jabs at people who don't agree with you by calling them inferior with alien thought processes. Is that self-assured and kind, honest and living a life of integrity?

Perhaps you should not try and tell others what their life should look like when you cannot even model your own ideal behavior and value system.

I didn't make a jab at anyone. It may be just something you choose to read into posts, which is something that reflects on you, not me. If someone felt anything I said referred to them in any way, perhaps they are embracing what they read and identifying with it in some way. That's nothing to do with me.

I know how I treat the people I come in contact with who aren't in the business of stepping on others to get what they want. I even treat people I don't know just fine since they have not done anything to not deserve my respect. Until I know someone, they deserve common courtesy and the same treatment I would enjoy having. Once they show they don't deserve my respect, they get different treatment. Pretty simple concept, that.

February 9, 2011

I think this is a key source of disagreement here.

The position is "perceived" to be open by the UOW. IMHO, most MM's who have affairs aren't actually looking for the position to be "open" or filled by someone new...they're just looking to enjoy the interviewing process. :D

Actually Owl, it was a non-AP who produced the vacancy, not a uOW...

It's still "applying for a vacant position.":cool:

I merely asserted that the vacancy existed because of a lack of prioritisation of the M.

February 9, 2011

I did not see anyone say that there are only two kinds of women.

You make many jabs at people who don't agree with you by calling them inferior with alien thought processes. Is that self-assured and kind, honest and living a life of integrity?

Perhaps you should not try and tell others what their life should look like when you cannot even model your own ideal behavior and value system.

Circular arguments typically don't go anywhere but round and round.

February 9, 2011

If someone felt anything I said referred to them in any way, perhaps they are embracing what they read and identifying with it in some way. That's nothing to do with me.

I read and identified with this:

Self assured BUT kind, honest, and living a life of integrity

nothing alien in that for me - it's what I do every day

February 9, 2011

Circular arguments typically don't go anywhere but round and round.

Nice to see someone's mastered the art of irony...

February 9, 2011

I didn't make a jab at anyone. It may be just something you choose to read into posts, which is something that reflects on you, not me. If someone felt anything I said referred to them in any way, perhaps they are embracing what they read and identifying with it in some way. That's nothing to do with me.

I know how I treat the people I come in contact with who aren't in the business of stepping on others to get what they want. I even treat people I don't know just fine since they have not done anything to not deserve my respect. Until I know someone, they deserve common courtesy and the same treatment I would enjoy having. Once they show they don't deserve my respect, they get different treatment. Pretty simple concept, that.

It has everything to do with you. You use your words to bite not help. Look at your posts. You are sarcastic and choose words that are made to make someone who disagrees with you as less than. We are all responsible for our words. And any reasonable person can figure out what you are using your words to say. And that is on you. From what I've read, most people on this forum have an average to high intellectual ability. So there's no need to read anything into something that's not there. It's pretty black and white, there's no need to read between the lines.

I don't know anyone who lives a life of integrity as having two ways of treating people. If you live with integrity, it shows, ALL the time. If you hurt people with words, disrespect, how is that living with integrity? There are those who can disagree without trying to make inferior.

Otherwise how are you any different than the people you disrespect? You are just like them, in a different way. Living a life of integrity is something done all the time, not rationalized away when you feel like it.

And since you have put that out as your ideal, you should be the example of it wouldn't you agree?

February 9, 2011

What a funny concept, that only ONE person should be targeted and held to some sort of standard that someone ELSE thinks they are in a position to determine. ESPECIALLY when I see SO many threads (like this one, for example) designed, very transparently I might add, to denigrate an entire subset of people on LS. Go rant at them, m'kay?

It's been a Great and Enjoyable Lecture.

February 9, 2011

I don't know anyone who lives a life of integrity as having two ways of treating people.

Uhmmm, a MM or a MW?? I'm just sayin'.

February 9, 2011

ah, so when things cool down, and the daily trials of marriage and parenting test things, its the BS being "smug" and "complacent"??

My x-wife became a mother. From that point on thats what she was, a mother, not a wife. I tried to keep the fires stoked, but she would always claim she was tired.

So I learned to do without, and without cheating. Then she ended up being the cheater.

So I guess I was "smug" and "complacent". go figure.

Smug no complacent yes. You settled into a routine where you went without. You had a relationship that you were going without. You were allowing yourself to not get what you needed from the R. I'm sorry but saying that you went without for the greater good doesn't work. Ms need intimacy and if lack of sex due to her being tired was accepted then yes you were being complacent.

I truly believe you felt you were doing the right things. I know the things I let happen in my M before his A were things I thought I was right in doing. I look back and I was so much at fault in not making it what it should have been. I let issues fester and I did things that hurt the M even though I thought I was doing the right things.

I'm not saying the A was my fault and I'm not saying it was yours. I think it's just another thing where we get into a rut and accept the status quo and things go downhill before we realize what's happened. I see people in friendships doing the same things. Obviously without the consequences.

Hope I haven't put words in your mouth but the similarities were there and I think sometimes complacency can be a marriage slayer.

February 9, 2011

I truly believe you felt you were doing the right things. I know the things I let happen in my M before his A were things I thought I was right in doing. I look back and I was so much at fault in not making it what it should have been. I let issues fester and I did things that hurt the M even though I thought I was doing the right things.

But with someone who goes out and cheats, it isn't always a case where their partner was "letting things happen" (or maybe not happen) in the M which caused the cheating. Sometimes, as in the example in that other thread with the interview at the beginning, they just enjoy variety and won't let you in on the secret. However, in the case where a partner IS "letting the M go" (for want of a better description), why can't they just TELL them instead of sneaking around? I'm telling you, if my baby came to me and said, "Honey, I feel our relationship has gone downhill, and my mind is starting to wander elsewhere," do you think for one second I wouldn't sit down and talk with him and find out what we needed (or perhaps I needed) to do to rectify the situation? I'm betting a larger percentage of others would do the same, if only they were given the benefit of knowing how their partner feels.

February 9, 2011

But with someone who goes out and cheats, it isn't always a case where their partner was "letting things happen" (or maybe not happen) in the M which caused the cheating. Sometimes, as in the example in that other thread with the interview at the beginning, they just enjoy variety and won't let you in on the secret. However, in the case where a partner IS "letting the M go" (for want of a better description), why can't they just TELL them instead of sneaking around? I'm telling you, if my baby came to me and said, "Honey, I feel our relationship has gone downhill, and my mind is starting to wander elsewhere," do you think for one second I wouldn't sit down and talk with him and find out what we needed (or perhaps I needed) to do to rectify the situation? I'm betting a larger percentage of others would do the same, if only they were given the benefit of knowing how their partner feels.

I agree with you completely. I don't blame him for her having an A no more than I blame myself for my exH having one. I do think that the upkeep of the M falls to both parties and if it breaks down both are responsible. I agree that it's not just a sweeping 'ok' to go off and have an A. I am just noting that people can let complacency set in and not realize how it can manifest to the end of a relationship. If he had realized it could have more of a negative impact on his M to address the lack of sex than to ignore it then he may have changed things. I don't kow the whole story but what I gather they were both complacent and she ran off and had an A. Again I'm not blaming him I'm just trying to point out something that could have led to the breakdown.

I also agree that serial cheaters, like you noted from the other thread, don't need any reason. Anything is a reason and nothing is a reason. They're just gonna do it whether their partner is complacent or hpyer vigilent.

Look at us Donna we've had two times today where we're doing a ok! High 5!

February 9, 2011

However, in the case where a partner IS "letting the M go" (for want of a better description), why can't they just TELL them instead of sneaking around? I'm telling you, if my baby came to me and said, "Honey, I feel our relationship has gone downhill, and my mind is starting to wander elsewhere," do you think for one second I wouldn't sit down and talk with him and find out what we needed (or perhaps I needed) to do to rectify the situation?

Ah, Donna, you are making a huge assumption here. Many WS/MMs feel they have done this. They feel they have told their spouse in every way that something is lacking in their marriage. The problem often is not that they haven't attempted to tell them, it's much more profound than that.

Most of the WS/MM's who have posted on LS have said that they told their spouse repeatedly that they weren't getting <fill in the blank>. Since I can't post about other people's situations, though, I'll post about my own. My husband tried to tell me, just like I tried to tell him. There are many obstacles to good communication when bad communication has become a habit. So, he was PO'd and I was PO'd. When I tried to tell him what I needed, he couldn't take it in and process it, because he was hurting. When he tried to tell me what he needed, I was hurting. So, instead of helping each other (and our marriage) we each took care of ourselves. That may work for the short-run, or for certain types of marriages, but it doesn't work when both people in a marriage are craving intimacy and neither can give it.

So, yeah, in a perfect world a person will not cheat, but rather sit down with his/her partner and in a perfectly rational way explain exactly what they want/need so their partner can take it in. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in this one. In this one there are MANY obstacles to communication.

Understand, I'm not condoning cheating, as there is a world of difference between understanding and condoning. I do understand that sometimes people feel boxed in and unable to make what even they consider to be the "right" choice. (Also, none of the above pertains to serial cheaters, IMO)

Edited February 9, 2011 by silktricks

February 9, 2011

Ah, Donna, you are making a huge assumption here. Many WS/MMs feel they have done this. They feel they have told their spouse in every way that something is lacking in their marriage. The problem often is not that they haven't attempted to tell them, it's much more profound than that.

And many do not. Check in with Owl or Spark or a good many other folks on this forum.

And for those who HAVE communicated problems and their spouse refuses to address them, perhaps they should consider divorce rather than the lying and sneaking.

February 9, 2011

Ah, Donna, you are making a huge assumption here. Many WS/MMs feel they have done this. They feel they have told their spouse in every way that something is lacking in their marriage. The problem often is not that they haven't attempted to tell them, it's much more profound than that.

Most of the WS/MM's who have posted on LS have said that they told their spouse repeatedly that they weren't getting <fill in the blank>. Since I can't post about other people's situations, though, I'll post about my own. My husband tried to tell me, just like I tried to tell him. There are many obstacles to good communication when bad communication has become a habit. So, he was PO'd and I was PO'd. When I tried to tell him what I needed, he couldn't take it in and process it, because he was hurting. When he tried to tell me what he needed, I was hurting. So, instead of helping each other (and our marriage) we each took care of ourselves. That may work for the short-run, or for certain types of marriages, but it doesn't work when both people in a marriage are craving intimacy and neither can give it.

So, yeah, in a perfect world a person will not cheat, but rather sit down with his/her partner and in a perfectly rational way explain exactly what they want/need so their partner can take it in. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in this one. In this one there are MANY obstacles to communication.

Understand, I'm not condoning cheating, as there is a world of difference between understanding and condoning. I do understand that sometimes people feel boxed in and unable to make what even they consider to be the "right" choice. (Also, none of the above pertains to serial cheaters, IMO)

Thank you Silk for stating so eloquently what I was trying to say.

February 9, 2011

Ah, Donna, you are making a huge assumption here. Many WS/MMs feel they have done this. They feel they have told their spouse in every way that something is lacking in their marriage. The problem often is not that they haven't attempted to tell them, it's much more profound than that.

I doubt very much many WS's have said that last part about being interested in someone else. I'm sure that if anyone in a marriage was told,"Hey, we're letting life get in the way and growing apart, actually I've met someone I've connected with..." Would change things pretty damn fast. The thing is, I bet not many actually SAY those words, other than, we're growing apart, what can we do to make things better..

February 9, 2011

I doubt very much many WS's have said that last part about being interested in someone else. I'm sure that if anyone in a marriage was told,"Hey, we're letting life get in the way and growing apart, actually I've met someone I've connected with..." Would change things pretty damn fast. The thing is, I bet not many actually SAY those words, other than, we're growing apart, what can we do to make things better..

You got it WWIU. The shock value of the FULL truth would, in all likelihood, set the wheels in motion for either a reparation of the M or a divorce. Either way, at least nobody is sneaking around and lying.

February 9, 2011

Jessie's girl Jessie better not fack with you. LOL! Holy sweet baby Jesus in diapers...

February 9, 2011

You got it WWIU. The shock value of the FULL truth would, in all likelihood, set the wheels in motion for either a reparation of the M or a divorce. Either way, at least nobody is sneaking around and lying.

And the reason why most probably don't want to take that route is because automatically trust is going to be an issue and a whole lot of questions to follow about the "person" of interest. It's easier for the WS to say nothing and not reap the consquences of admitting interest or wanting to be with someone else. Just my 2 cents.

Mimo --That made me LOL. Cute.

February 9, 2011

jessie's girl, in keeping with the topic of the thread: unapologetic OWs, IMO you are one of the few here who meet the definition as I understand it.

I've truly enjoyed your posts.

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