Unapologetic OWs - a threat?

[OWoman]

So, a friend said:

 

But you will see the BBWs' fears surface over and over again.They fear unapologetic OW most of all. I think it is because they see us as the type of women most likely to "get the MM" in the end. It seems to me that we who are unapologetic tend to be more self-centered, self-assured, self-confident. I think that as a "species" uOW tend to be more self-sufficient, intellectual, humourous, commited. Because of that, uOW are feared above all because we are the type of women men DO "fall in love" with. We are the type of women whose company is desired by men. They know that with women like that men usually are not in it just for the sex, though they also know that bcause we are all those things we also tend to be great lovers. (A confident lover always is much more fun than an insecure lover.)

 

They do not really fear women who stay at home all day cleaning the litter-box while waiting for the MM to call. She is no real threat to them.

 

It made a lot of sense to me and helped explain why some noobs here, as well as some "older" posters, tend to draw most of the fire. It's probably easier to respond to someone with compassion when you don't view them as representative of a threat, while those who get what they want - which might include someone else's H - are too terrible to contemplate, and must be silenced and neutralised at all costs.

 

So, I'm putting this out there for OWs and OMs of all stripes - do you feel our degree of "unapologeticness" or otherwise contributed to the degree, and kind, of support you received - from other APs, from BSs past and present and from anyone else?

 

And for non-APs - does the degree to which an AP is "unapologetic" influence the degree to which you feel yourself able to provide support (of the kind sought by the OP, not what you might assume the OP might need)?

[greengoddess]

I think it is the uncaring attitude of the unapologetic ow that is a threat. It is a threat to all of society when someone does not care who or what stands in the way of what they want. I do not look at it as being self assured at all.

 

I look at it as not caring about anyone but themselves and that is a threat to everyone who is in their vicinity.

[OWoman]

I think it is the uncaring attitude of the unapologetic ow that is a threat. It is a threat to all of society when someone does not care who or what stands in the way of what they want. I do not look at it as being self assured at all.

 

I look at it as not caring about anyone but themselves and that is a threat to everyone who is in their vicinity.

 

It seems my friend was correct, then?

[someday]

You know, I bet there is merit in this thought. I think that a scared person is unattractive so when the BW is scared of losing her M and her H she’s probably pretty unattractive to the MM- at the time. I think that if the MM is this type of person then the BW is probably better off without him, anyway.

 

But you can’t ‘stereotype’ the OW as this and the BW as not this…I think that at times it’s the other way around. The MM needs a ‘needy’ woman who he can ‘save’ I guess to make himself feel more like a man?? I don’t know.

[greengoddess]

It seems my friend was correct, then?

 

Tell yourself what you need to make it okay. It is all about you.

 

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This post is meant to be a very friendly message to OWoman and was not intended in any way to be offensive.

Edited February 1, 2011 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[donnamaybe]

Yup. It's someone completely devoid of empathy for someone whose life is being turned into a lie, sometimes for years. And it's not so much as a feeling of being threatened, but more one of contempt.

[someday]

Yup. It's someone completely devoid of empathy for someone whose life is being turned into a lie, sometimes for years. And it's not so much as a feeling of being threatened, but more one of contempt.

 

 

Yes, I agree, uOW are pretty creepy...and icky...if you ask me.

[LifesontheUp]

Personally I don't see them as a threat, I actually find it all very sad. Oh to live your life with the "me me me" mentality

[donnamaybe]

Yes, I agree, uOW are pretty creepy...and icky...if you ask me.

Unapologetic ANYONE who is knowingly hurting someone else OR their life, actually.

[greengoddess]

 

But you can’t ‘stereotype’ the OW as this and the BW as not this…I think that at times it’s the other way around. The MM needs a ‘needy’ woman who he can ‘save’ I guess to make himself feel more like a man?? I don’t know.

 

Yes many times the mm is playing the night in shining armor and coming to the rescue of the poor lifes a mess ow. The mm's family is all on even keel going along the same day in and day out with his children growing up and not needing daddy as much and he needs that "big man" I'm needed and important role.

[PeachyPink]

A threat to what?

 

Someone with so little empathy to be unapologetic is not someone I would hold in high esteem. The man that is unapologetic or wants an unapologetic OW isn't worth much either.

[woinlove]

It is also the lack of empathy for others that I find difficult to understand - even though I once lacked empathy myself. But when I did, I just shrugged and would not have batted an eyelash if someone spoke poorly of my behavior. So, it is the combination of lack of empathy coupled with the need for approval (or, if you like, the strong reaction to disapproval) that I find difficult to understand.

 

If you are so ready to put your personal interests first and overlook the hurt of others, why do you find it so difficult to show the same indifference toward opinions which differ from yours? Instead, it seems that some (not all*) who self-describe as unapologetic OW are the same ones who try to squelch those who have a different opinion on how to treat others. [*one unapologetic OW comes to mind, one who typically has several MM, and doesn't seem to ever get bothered by differing opinions. Her, I can understand. The others come across as conflicted souls to me.]

[donnamaybe]

A threat to what?

 

Someone with so little empathy to be unapologetic is not someone I would hold in high esteem. The man that is unapologetic or wants an unapologetic OW isn't worth much either.

I know, huh?! A bunch of people running amok, fornicating with, sometimes, whoever the flavor of the moment is or with some man/woman who has them convinced they are "the one."

 

Yeah, a threat. That's it. A threat.

Edited January 31, 2011 by donnamaybe

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, I agree with a poster above that the "unapologetic OW" is kind of threatening in a societal sense.

 

We, as a society, want to believe in other people. We want to believe that if we marry and promise to be "exclusive," this pact will be honored.

 

We also want to believe that other people will respect these pacts and keep "hands off" of married people.

 

Some of us, like me, would like to think of fellow women more as compadres than as competitors or even stealthy predators.

 

We want to believe that if someone trespasses on a generally esteemed social value (honesty; the value of a promise in general - this could extend to something as basic as sealing a business agreement with a handshake. I am not only talking about emotional and sexual betrayal) that they WOULD feel they'd done wrong and be "apologetic."

 

When they are not, and are very strident about it, I do feel that there is a general air of threat about it.

 

I feel the same way about Bernie Madoff, et al.

[moloko]

And for non-APs - does the degree to which an AP is "unapologetic" influence the degree to which you feel yourself able to provide support

 

someone who is unapologetic doesn't need support.

 

OW/OM can be unapologetic as much as they like. More power to them.

 

But when they shout it from the mountain top, it doesn't make them look good. Nothing is more unattractive than pretty much yelling, "I helped to hurt someone in real life and I don't give a crap".

 

So be unapologetic all you like. But when you vocally express it, we'll, I'll refrain from what I really want to say.

[tami-chan]

Well..if an act is not approved by a majority and a person does that act without any sense of guilt/remorse, etc..then yes, it is a threat. It is a threat to the "moral" fabric that holds that society and it is a bigger threat to an person who is dependent upon that fabric to hold him/self up.

[jthorne]

I think the premise of your thread is faulty. Other than yourself, I can think of maybe one other uOW that got what she wanted. The other two uOW that have frequented the boards have been uOW for 4 or 5 years and are still waiting for the MM to divorce.

 

I don't see how you can say that a uOW is a threat because she is more successful. From what I've seen around here, they are no more successful than any other OW.

[greengoddess]

I also think unapologetic do a diservice to ow who really are feeling terrible for the mess they have gotten in. They make ow look cold hearted which I know many are not and many really do have remorse and care about the mm's family.

[silktricks]

I dunno - I never saw you or Jennie-jennie or any other unapologetic OWs, as a threat. I saw you as having different cultural norms than I. I also have found your intelligence and viewpoints interesting and entertaining. I often do not agree with what you have to say, and sometimes it has frustrated me, but that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy reading it, and it hasn't stopped me from responding, sometimes in agreement, sometimes not.

 

Why would I find you to be a threat? Threat to me? Threat to my marriage? No. Even if you were my next-door-neighbor, you wouldn't be a threat.

 

The only part of the unapologetic OW that I find - hhmmmm, how to put this - off-putting - is not the unapologetic part, it is the arrogant part. The idea that an unapologetic OW is so terribly attractive that basically any man would come lusting after them just seems rather childish to me.

[Spark1111]

You know, I bet there is merit in this thought. I think that a scared person is unattractive so when the BW is scared of losing her M and her H she’s probably pretty unattractive to the MM- at the time. I think that if the MM is this type of person then the BW is probably better off without him, anyway.

 

But you can’t ‘stereotype’ the OW as this and the BW as not this…I think that at times it’s the other way around. The MM needs a ‘needy’ woman who he can ‘save’ I guess to make himself feel more like a man?? I don’t know.

 

 

This was my sitch to a tee!

 

My fWS could save himself, so he found a needy, angry, drama queen to rescue!

 

He had a resourceful, strong, happy UNAPOLEGETIC WOMAN at home!

 

Go figure!

 

No one threatens me. However, I do grow weary with the arrogant know-it-alls.

 

Like I have said, if you're happy, I'm happy.

 

But if you want my advice?

 

I intend to have an opinion.

[Owl]

Threat? No.

 

But here's my views, pulled from a post I made in another thread here on LS.

 

People are understandably offended when they encounter someone who pursues a course of action with absolutely no care or concern about the damage done to others in the pursuit of that course of action.

 

People find intense self-centeredness and self-focus at the expense of others distasteful.

 

And it should hardly be surprsing that people who have been on the recieving end of that "expense" would be more offended/'bitter' about encountering it.

 

Why would this be a shock? Do you truly expect a different response?

 

This might help explain why the "unapologetic" portion doesn't just get a reaction from BS's here on LS...but often even other OW/OM as well.

 

It's not a threat...but it's the inherent/implied self-centeredness at the expense of others that tends to cause others to react negatively.

[herenow]

I'm not sure I see the difference between an OW who is currently engaged in an affair and an unapologetic OW. A person who apologizes for their behavior isn't being honest if they are still continuing that behavior.

 

So, the question to me would be be: Do I find OW's threatening? Easy, No.

 

If my H wanted to be with an OW, I would insist he leaves. Why would I ever want to be with a man who wants to be with an OW? The point that is missed here so often, is that many BW (when they find out about the affair) tell their WH"s to go be with the OW.

 

For the most part, BW's don't see the OW as a threat. They see their H's and their marriages as a commitment to be honored. If that commitment is broken, it's the MM who is the one that threatened it. The OW is not the threat.

[2sure]

A spouses infidelity can be the result of a problem with the marriage or a problem with the spouse.

 

Who the affair is with is secondary. Most OW here know that if their AP were not cheating with them they would be cheating with someone else.

 

OW being apologetic or not ...what does that change?

[herenow]

A spouses infidelity can be the result of a problem with the marriage or a problem with the spouse.

 

Who the affair is with is secondary. Most OW here know that if their AP were not cheating with them they would be cheating with someone else.

 

OW being apologetic or not ...what does that change?

 

Exactly, the threat is the actions of the MM. Makes no difference who the OW is. The point is that a MM is having an affair and that is what threatens the marriage.

 

The fact that the MM is having sex with an OW threatens the marriage as much as the alcoholic hitting the bottle or the drug addict getting a fix. You can blame the liquor store or the drug dealer, but in reality it is still the choice of the person to engage in the actions that becomes the threat.

[pureinheart]

 

So, I'm putting this out there for OWs and OMs of all stripes - do you feel our degree of "unapologeticness" or otherwise contributed to the degree, and kind, of support you received - from other APs, from BSs past and present and from anyone else?

 

 

I will quote this OP again, as I wanted to address the actual question first.

 

This is difficult to answer. When first coming to this forum, the first one I had ever been BTW, it was priddy supportive. Possible reasons concerning support, I was already in a NC mode, and it was just plain supportive at that time.

 

One thing I know for sure is there wasn't the darkness that I see now, and when returning over a year ago.. The bitterness and hate is rampant IMO.